why is the US not Metric

[petert]

here in Australia everything is Metric,  like most of the world.

Except for tyre pressure (psi) and to a lesser extent food energy (calories).

Note the electronic tyre pumps at service stations, which default to psi, but are required by law to have a metric (kPa) toggle switch (which I have never seen anyone use).

Most food packaging is in kJ, but it seems a lot of media commentators still like to use calories.

Same really in Germany and France, energy (calories) contained in food never really progressed to the new units.
Also while bar for pressure is easily scaled to Pascal, the switch still hasn't been made.

[petert]

Harddisk and screen sizes are the current examples, floppy disk sizes where a thing in the past.

3.5 inch floppy disk is really 90 mm, but was renamed so to satisfy the customs of thr US American market. (Similar for other floppy sizes.)
Screen sizes were in inches for the same reason: influence of the American companies/market.
German brands tended to use cm, predominantly.

Similar story with horsepower for cars.

That's the only example in this list where an old unit is still used because of customs/impedance to change in Germany.

[Simon]

I personally do hots per mm. If it's 6 dpmm like a 27" 4k monitor that's good enough for me

[DBecker]

Harddisk and screen sizes are the current examples, floppy disk sizes where a thing in the past.

3.5 inch floppy disk is really 90 mm, but was renamed so to satisfy the customs of thr US American market. (Similar for other floppy sizes.)

The 8 inch and 5.25 inch floppy were developed in the U.S.  The development happened in Silicon Valley starting in 1967, so every dimension would have been imperial.

The 3.5 inch floppy format was largely developed by Sony in Japan.  While it used most of the electronics of the earlier formats, the physical construction was newly developed and thus largely metric (with the exception of the mounting details and the name).

[rstofer]

FWIW, I am not anti-metric, I use it all the time.  And, yes, I did some time in school; I'm not a drop-out.  MSEE to be exact!  So, yes, I know the system and I know how to use it and I agree it has some nice features and I even agree it would be a better system.  But we're not going to change!

What I am against is a) changing the basis for our entire country and b) the whining and sniveling of people trying to coerce a change.  We aren't going to change our base units, ever, and foreigners are not going to impact our decision.  This entire debate is meaningless because the person in the street doesn't care about units, doesn't understand metric and could care less about the subject.  Not changing is just a form of inertia.  Remember physics?  You need a force to overcome inertia and there simply isn't enough force for changing units.  Newton's First Law, remember?  A body at rest tends to stay at rest and all that...

Now, you can claim that my views are radical but populist would be more accurate.  If we wanted to change, we would have done it when Sputnik launched and we felt under technological pressure.  But we didn't.  And we won't.  We were riding a post-war high right up until October 4, 1957 when, all of a sudden, we were challenged.  We kicked the educational system up a couple of notches.  Twelve years later we were walking on the Moon.

You do realize that France isn't highly regarded by the average Joe on the streets, right?  As soon as Joe finds out the standards are kept in Paris, the game is over.  Maybe if the standards were moved to Sweden the change would have better odds of happening.  Everybody loves Sweden!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-French_sentiment_in_the_United_States

Wait another 25 years and see if things have changed.  My guess is no but something could happen to overcome the inertia.  I don't know what it would be.  If Sputnik didn't do it, I don't know what will.

The topic isn't "is metric better", arguably it is.  The topic is whether the US will change and my view is that it never will.  I could be wrong...

And we're still the only country to walk on the Moon.

[xrunner]

This entire debate is meaningless because the person in the street doesn't care about units, doesn't understand metric and could care less about the subject.

LOL that's true! 

[ebastler]

What I am against is a) changing the basis for our entire country and b) the whining and sniveling of people trying to coerce a change.  We aren't going to change our base units, ever, and foreigners are not going to impact our decision. 

I struggle to understand why practically all posters from the US in this thread take this matter so personally. So many posts that dither between being defensive, insulted, or digging in your heels.  Why?

Most of you do take an objective view, acknowledging the pros and cons of the different systems in different applications, which I much appreciate. But when it comes to drawing conclusions, the stance is no longer dispassionate and objective, but either defensive, stubborn or aggressive. That quote above might come straight from the NRA... 

Most of the non-US posters here have given you little reason to respond like that. The few (and unfortunately prolific) posters which clearly do try to provoke are getting exactly the responses they are looking for, and get encouraged to try the next round of escalation. Don't do them the favor...

[rdl]

I know it's been said before, but I'll repeat it anyway. Very few Americans care one way or the other what measurement system is used. Metric or US customary, we're fine with either and use both on a daily basis. I don't know why this is so hard for some people to understand. The US officially went Metric back in the seventies. Today, America is as Metric as it needs to be. No more, no less. Hand-wringing and fretting about it by random people on the internet will never make any difference.

[rstofer]

What I am against is a) changing the basis for our entire country and b) the whining and sniveling of people trying to coerce a change.  We aren't going to change our base units, ever, and foreigners are not going to impact our decision. 

I struggle to understand why practically all posters from the US in this thread take this matter so personally. So many posts that dither between being defensive, insulted, or digging in your heels.  Why?

No, most of the foreign posts come across as denigrating, proclaiming how ignorant we must be not to see the wisdom of changing our system of units.  We're not ignorant (we did walk on the Moon and nobody else has), we just don't see a compelling reason to make the change (at the street level) and the subject gets tiring after a while.

Most of you do take an objective view, acknowledging the pros and cons of the different systems in different applications, which I much appreciate. But when it comes to drawing conclusions, the stance is no longer dispassionate and objective, but either defensive, stubborn or aggressive. That quote above might come straight from the NRA...

See, there you go!  Denigrating one of the most powerful organizations in the US with over 5 million members - and we VOTE!.  Personally, I'm a Life Member at the highest level (Benefactor).  I've been a life member for decades.

Off topic:  What I admire about Germany:  Your autobahn system is magnificent and surpassed only by your train system (and the Strassenbahn).  Dinkelacker beer is my favorite and I enjoyed my time stationed in Mannheim.  What a great place!  Circa '66-'67.  We grabbed up a lot of your machinists in the early '60s and the shop where I worked was primarily German immigrants.  They did GREAT work - high precision all the way.

ETA:  I should point out that where I worked at the time was heavily involved in the space program.  We not only grabbed up your scientists, we used your very qualified machinists to build parts.  Thanks!  Seriously, I was just a kid at the time.  The fellows in the shop taught me a lot about machine work.  Good people!

Most of the non-US posters here have given you little reason to respond like that. The few (and unfortunately prolific) posters which clearly do try to provoke are getting exactly the responses they are looking for, and get encouraged to try the next round of escalation. Don't do them the favor...

Look at the thread title as an American.  Does it come across as a genuine question or the start of another units war?  Every one of these threads (and this isn't the only one) degenerates into rancor.  Hey!  We get it!  We don't use metric (at the street level)!  But what the other people need to understand is that we are aware of metric, we simply don't care.  We're not going to change and, really, that's all there is to say on the topic.  The other 58 pages of jawing back and forth are meaningless because they won't cause a change.  It's just US slamming (because we're the target of the topic) and it gets tiring.

But I still like to stir the pot from time to time...

[xrunner]

Wait another 25 years and see if things have changed.  My guess is no but something could happen to overcome the inertia.  I don't know what it would be.  If Sputnik didn't do it, I don't know what will.

[bsfeechannel]

FWIW, I am not anti-metric

Yes, you are, because, according to you, metric is for the unit buff, not for the common man. However, the metric system was designed for everybody and for the use everywhere. The person in the street is the primary target of the metric system. It requires less calculations in practice and less math concepts to operate.

Since you people are denying this to everyone, you ARE NOT METRIC. And this is criminal.

We aren't going to change our base units, ever, and foreigners are not going to impact our decision.

Yes. This is what must be hurting you the most. That, France, Europe or whatever, is in fact imparting benefits to the people in the US, not a local institution, like the government.

That's why I like your posts.

This entire debate is meaningless because the person in the street doesn't care about units,

If that was true, standard units, metric, imperial or whatever, were not in place for the people to practice. The people in the street DO CARE about units, contrary to what you think.

The thing is that arguments like that are issued with the clear intention to quell the discussion about metrication in the US. However, after 55 pages, you can see that this is not working.

doesn't understand metric and could care less about the subject.

If that is true, so much the better. Metrication will be quick and painless. Maybe you will have some reaction here and there but people will eventually get used to the metric system and will even fight to protect it once they realize how it makes their jobs easier.

You do realize that France isn't highly regarded by the average Joe on the streets, right?  As soon as Joe finds out the standards are kept in Paris, the game is over.

No standards are kept in France. And it is assertions like that that gives us full authority to whiplash the crap out of your arguments, reject them outright and--why not?--have fun with them.

If the average Joe in the US thinks that the metric standards are kept in France, this tells us that the US is not that impressive. It cancels the glory you think it deserves, for example, from the the moon landings.

Maybe if the standards were moved to Sweden the change would have better odds of happening.

The standards have been "moved" to Sweden, to Zambia, to Vietnam, to New Zealand, to Antarctica, and even to the US! In fact, any person in the street can have access to the standards in the comfort of their own homes, once they have the appropriate equipment which is not that expensive these days. You can even buy it on ebay.

Everybody loves Sweden!

Who doesn't?

Wait another 25 years and see if things have changed.

This thread will have 4125 pages.

And we're still the only country to walk on the Moon.

And, by the looks of it, it will be the only one.

[bsfeechannel]

I know it's been said before, but I'll repeat it anyway. Very few Americans care one way or the other what measurement system is used. Metric or US customary, we're fine with either and use both on a daily basis. I don't know why this is so hard for some people to understand.

I'll tell you what is hard.

The US officially went Metric back in the seventies. Today, America is as Metric as it needs to be. No more, no less. Hand-wringing and fretting about it by random people on the internet will never make any difference.

First of all, the US went officially "metric" in the 19th century, not in the seventies.

If I were an E.T. and my spaceship crashed, say, in Roswell, I'd notice that customary units would be everywhere. So my conclusion would be that the US is not metric. Not even where it needs to be: in the streets.

So that's what is hard to accept: an argument that contradicts reality and logic with the only intent of censoring scrutiny.

[rstofer]

You do realize that France isn't highly regarded by the average Joe on the streets, right?  As soon as Joe finds out the standards are kept in Paris, the game is over.

No standards are kept in France. And it is assertions like that that gives us full authority to whiplash the crap out of your arguments, reject them outright and--why not?--have fun with them.

Here is an article that claims THE international standard for the kg is kept in an underground vault in Paris.  I'm been to Paris but I wasn't searching for the vault.  Maybe the article is wrong, I wouldn't know.

https://www.bbvaopenmind.com/en/science/mathematics/el-sistema-metrico-la-medida-de-todo/

There are dozens of 'identical' copies but these are, at best, secondary standards.

The meter used to be a metal bar kept in, you guessed it, Paris!  Now it is defined based on the wavelength of a certain frequency of light.  This is easier to duplicate around the world.

I just know what I have read and I have to believe the article is based on some facts.  But, it's the Internet, facts are not in abundance.

[angrybird]

The fact that people are arguing about this is beyond me.  It's just math.  You can convert between one and the other if you need to.  You can work with one or the other depending on your preference.  The fact that geographical areas historically picked one  vs. the other doesn't matter.

People who learned one in primary school are likely to stick with this for life, and forcing a sudden change on everyone is certain to cause more chaos than simply working with what we have... because it's just math.

The USA moved forward with the imperial system and is unlikely to change, and arguments to force this change are "piss in the wind".  Keep in mind that the citizens of the USA are in posession of upwards of a billion guns, many of these being the most dangerous kind, shotguns and hunting rifles, we're not talking BB guns here.  It's adviseable to not force them to do anything, especially something this pointless.  I think they're already ready to start shooting over this emotional politics/media nonsense going on.

Go learn math, stop urinating into a headwind, and marvel at the fact that the USA is free to stay the way they are no matter what some educated yet clueless makers, hobbyists, and engineers think.

Go drink a beer!

[rstofer]

We'll know when there is a movement to convert:  You will see people in the streets wearing "Make America Metric" T-shirts and baseball caps.  Or, if you don't want to wander our streets, look up in the sky.  Do you see pigs flying?  That would be a sign!

[rdl]

First of all, the US went officially "metric" in the 19th century, not in the seventies.

No, not really.

In the 19th century, the Metric Act permitted metric units of measurement to be used legally.

Metric units did not become the preferred system until the Metric Conversion Act was signed into law at the end of 1975.

[angrybird]

We'll know when there is a movement to convert:  You will see people in the streets wearing "Make America Metric" T-shirts and baseball caps.  Or, if you don't want to wander our streets, look up in the sky.  Do you see pigs flying?  That would be a sign!

I suspect that hell would also freeze over at the same time that the flying pigs were spotted.

[Simon]

Here is an article that claims THE international standard for the kg is kept in an underground vault in Paris.  I'm been to Paris but I wasn't searching for the vault.  Maybe the article is wrong, I wouldn't know.

https://www.bbvaopenmind.com/en/science/mathematics/el-sistema-metrico-la-medida-de-todo/

There are dozens of 'identical' copies but these are, at best, secondary standards.

The meter used to be a metal bar kept in, you guessed it, Paris!  Now it is defined based on the wavelength of a certain frequency of light.  This is easier to duplicate around the world.

I just know what I have read and I have to believe the article is based on some facts.  But, it's the Internet, facts are not in abundance.

Correct. They are also trying to redefine the kg because as the item slowly losses some atoms it's weight (mass) is drifting. They did the same for the metre changing it's definition from a sample held somewhere to the distance traveled by light in a certain time.

[Tepe]

Here is an article that claims THE international standard for the kg is kept in an underground vault in Paris.  I'm been to Paris but I wasn't searching for the vault.  Maybe the article is wrong, I wouldn't know.

https://www.bbvaopenmind.com/en/science/mathematics/el-sistema-metrico-la-medida-de-todo/

There are dozens of 'identical' copies but these are, at best, secondary standards.

The meter used to be a metal bar kept in, you guessed it, Paris!  Now it is defined based on the wavelength of a certain frequency of light.  This is easier to duplicate around the world.

I just know what I have read and I have to believe the article is based on some facts.  But, it's the Internet, facts are not in abundance.

Correct. They are also trying to redefine the kg because as the item slowly losses some atoms it's weight (mass) is drifting. They did the same for the metre changing it's definition from a sample held somewhere to the distance traveled by light in a certain time.

Not correct anymore because it has already happened: Now the definition is based on Planck's constant and the meter and the second.

[rstofer]

We'll know when there is a movement to convert:  You will see people in the streets wearing "Make America Metric" T-shirts and baseball caps.  Or, if you don't want to wander our streets, look up in the sky.  Do you see pigs flying?  That would be a sign!

I suspect that hell would also freeze over at the same time that the flying pigs were spotted.

Then we would have to change from temperature in Rankine to Kelvin.

[bsfeechannel]

Here is an article that claims THE international standard for the kg is kept in an underground vault in Paris.  I'm been to Paris but I wasn't searching for the vault.  Maybe the article is wrong, I wouldn't know.

https://www.bbvaopenmind.com/en/science/mathematics/el-sistema-metrico-la-medida-de-todo/

There are dozens of 'identical' copies but these are, at best, secondary standards.

The meter used to be a metal bar kept in, you guessed it, Paris!  Now it is defined based on the wavelength of a certain frequency of light.  This is easier to duplicate around the world.

I just know what I have read and I have to believe the article is based on some facts.  But, it's the Internet, facts are not in abundance.

The article you posted is outdated. The kilogram was THE LAST metric base unit still held as a prototype by several countries, including the US, when it was replaced by a standard based on the Planck constant, on the meter and on the second in November 2018.

The meter was defined in terms of the speed of light in 1983 and the second in terms of subatomic properties of Cesium 133 in 1967!

What is ironic is that the US and the UK played important roles in the transition from the prototypes to the current standards.

Now go and tell Joe Sixpack and Jane Average on the street that the metric system is as American as corn dogs. Please.

[rstofer]

Now go and tell Joe Sixpack and Jane Average on the street that the metric system is as American as corn dogs. Please.

Why?  They're content with the existing system and have nothing to gain by the change.  What?  We gain conformity with Europe?  That really isn't a goal. Left to their daily lives, they probably don't give Europe a moment's thought per year!

When I arrived to work in Singapore, one of the very high up manager's asked what we thought of Singapore in the US.  I told him I didn't know, it had never come up in my family and I was pretty sure it didn't come up in many other families either.  If you had a relationship with the country, like family, sure, you gave it some thought.  The only thing I could think of was the jackets with the embroidered tiger that the sailors picked up when they stopped in for R&R.  It's kind of the same deal with Europe.  Every body knows it's 'over there' but nobody cares.

[SilverSolder]

Now go and tell Joe Sixpack and Jane Average on the street that the metric system is as American as corn dogs. Please.

Why?  They're content with the existing system and have nothing to gain by the change.  What?  We gain conformity with Europe?  That really isn't a goal. Left to their daily lives, they probably don't give Europe a moment's thought per year!

When I arrived to work in Singapore, one of the very high up manager's asked what we thought of Singapore in the US.  I told him I didn't know, it had never come up in my family and I was pretty sure it didn't come up in many other families either.  If you had a relationship with the country, like family, sure, you gave it some thought.  The only thing I could think of was the jackets with the embroidered tiger that the sailors picked up when they stopped in for R&R.  It's kind of the same deal with Europe.  Every body knows it's 'over there' but nobody cares.

Americans tend not to appreciate that European countries are smaller and far less homogeneous than American states - so people grow up there comfortable with the fact that there are other countries/languages nearby, and (apart from brexiters) most Europeans understand the need to find common ground on which to build (including agreeing on weights and measures).

Europeans, on the other hand, tend not to appreciate how different US states actually are from each other...  I was shocked, personally, having gotten used to the East Coast how different things are in the South, and the West, and even the North!

[bsfeechannel]

Why?  They're content with the existing system and have nothing to gain by the change. 

If they had nothing to gain with the change, why did your country invest so much in the improvement of the metric system? For the common citizens of the other countries that use metric on a daily basis to profit?

It seems like a stupid move, to use taxpayer's money for the benefit the rest of the world, especially Europe, that you despise so much, and keep the taxpayers themselves out of it.

[angrybird]

I just realized what is going on here.

If you non-USA guys are so insanely jealous of people that live in the USA, why don't you just move there instead of this futile bashing of such an irrelevant subject?