Author Topic: Why not ban AWG  (Read 56183 times)

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Offline TMM

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Re: Why not ban AWG
« Reply #125 on: October 15, 2013, 07:46:12 am »
Apparently (but don't quote me on this), the latest ISS docking (CYGNUS space craft) failed on the first attempt because the ISS was using one measurement scale (metric) and the CYGNUS craft was using a different one (imperial).

So they had to back CYGNUS away from the ISS for a week or so whilst they altered the software on the CYGNUS space craft to use the metric system.

oops!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter
Heheh. Silly 'murricans and their imperial units.
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: Why not ban AWG
« Reply #126 on: October 15, 2013, 07:54:43 am »
Imperial units is a religion. It was passed to my generation from a previous one and to them from a previous one and so on with no rational other than "because that's the way it is".
The imperial system is/was an english system, you guys broke off all relations with your declaration of independence, why keep that of all things  :D

Can you imagine that you would not have switched to the decimalisation standard for your money? You would have something pre 1971 english like 12 cents in a dime 20 dimes in a dollar. Good luck. :D

« Last Edit: October 15, 2013, 08:06:57 am by Kjelt »
 

Offline G7PSK

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Re: Why not ban AWG
« Reply #127 on: October 15, 2013, 08:01:20 am »
Can we stop using centimetres please, this is an engineering forum not a seamstress/tailor forum... it's either millimetres or metres >:D

centi is a valid SI prefix. Nothing wrong with it, it just doesn't get as much love in engineering as it should get.

Millimeters are and meters are used in engineering to avoid mistakes. If you used centimeters and the labeling was not clear they could be mistaken for millimeters or Meters  so all smaller measurements are made in millimeters and larger one's in meters and in general it can be easily deduced from the drawing what is meant even if the unit is not marked on the drawing. 
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: Why not ban AWG
« Reply #128 on: October 15, 2013, 08:02:23 am »
You see, this is the part of metric that I don't understand.  There are all these lovely decimal units, and then the actual goods end up "297mm" long, or sold "per 250g"
I think the paper size was an US A4 standard which was globally adapted since all printers/typewriters etc. came from the US  ;)

The prices in european supermarkets on the shelves are usually sublabeled per kg and ofcourse the price of the weight in the package it is sold.
Every unit needs subunits to be workable, or can you imagine having only €10 and €100 bills? Now in Europe the moneytary subunits are seperated in 1,2,5 which is different then in our country before the euro where it was 1, 2.5 , 5 this is still after 10 years sometimes getting used to as are our typical names for the coin money which are abandoned.
 

Offline Kremmen

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Re: Why not ban AWG
« Reply #129 on: October 15, 2013, 08:47:33 am »
Quote
A4 paper  297 x 210 mm.
You see, this is the part of metric that I don't understand.  There are all these lovely decimal units, and then the actual goods end up "297mm" long, or sold "per 250g"
But isn't that nice: you are free to use whatever measurement is appropriate, instead of being constrained to the nearest multiple of some arbitrary base unit whether it is optimal or not.
But seriously, the logic behind paper sizes was explained already, and as to the sold "per ..." thing, for retail items the unit price is always given (i.e. the price per kilo or liter or whatever). That greatly facilitates comparing the true prices of items, both between different brands and between package sizes of the same brand. I have been surprised more times than i can count...
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Offline Rerouter

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Re: Why not ban AWG
« Reply #130 on: October 15, 2013, 09:20:29 am »
Or they could just standardize on inches if they are so resistant to metric,

1 thou = 1 Milli-inch
1 foot = 12 inches
1 yard = 36 inches
1 mile = 63.36 kilo-inches etc

thinking in powers of 10 you can suddenly see how odd the mile looks,

1 gallon = 231 cubic inches
1 quart = 57.75 cubic inches
1 pint = 28.875 cubic inches

the gallon while not a nice number is round, the others not so much,

for mass, lets forget any round numbers on the power of 10 scale,

1 short tonne = 110.92 mega-cubic inches of water
1 pound = 27.73 cubic inches of water
1 ounce = 1.73 cubic inches of water

 ::)


 

Offline NANDBlog

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Re: Why not ban AWG
« Reply #131 on: October 15, 2013, 11:58:33 am »
Especially in PCB design, I have preatty bad time working because the imp system. Some manufacturers just cannot make the drawings in mm, even if they would just write there that they made something 120 mil big. They could have just write there 3.048mm, and I would gladly ignore that 48 um, unless it is that important. Instead, I have to take the calculator out, move the reference point, and pull my hair off until I become bald. And it continues on different levels. recently I've seen LFM as air flow. Nobody had any idea how much is that. I'm pretty sure that even americans have no idea how to work with their derived units. They are fine until they use yards, and feet, but when it became pounds per cubic feet or farenheit per milliwatt per square inch, it is basically over. It becomes a combination of inappropriately chosen ratios, and you cannot convert, nor imagine it.
Same deal with PCBs. Whoever decided that it is a good idea to write track width in mil, must be insane. I mean the 0.1mm grid just works so flawlessly to design a whole (not HDI) PCB...
 

Offline Phaedrus

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Re: Why not ban AWG
« Reply #132 on: October 15, 2013, 03:17:12 pm »
"More quotes have been misattributed to Albert Einstein than to any other famous person."
- Albert Einstein
 

Offline grumpydoc

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Re: Why not ban AWG
« Reply #133 on: October 15, 2013, 03:19:41 pm »
Celsius isn't fine-grained enough for everyday use? Can you honestly feel a 1F difference? I'm hard pressed to discern an 1C difference!

-30C: please kill me
-20C: holy shit it's cold!
-10C: damn, it's chilly today!
0C: snowman weather
10C: light jacket weather
20C: room temperature
30C: pretty warm
35C: damn, it's warm today!
37C: holy shit it's hot!
40C: please kill me

Disclaimer: Opinions vary by region.
Indeed, for instance there's the Geordie night out scale:

-30C: T-shirt
-20C: T-shirt
-10C: T-shirt
0C: T-shirt
10C: T-shirt
20C: T-shirt
30C: T-shirt
35C: T-shirt
37C: T-shirt
40C: T-shirt

:)

 

Offline c4757p

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Re: Why not ban AWG
« Reply #134 on: October 15, 2013, 03:34:37 pm »
You use decibels, don't you?

You can hardly call that a prefixed unit, though... have you ever seen somebody use the bel proper?
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Offline rolycat

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Re: Why not ban AWG
« Reply #135 on: October 15, 2013, 03:39:46 pm »
Just curious...do people in the UK still commonly use "stone" as the unit for weight?

For bodyweight, yes.

No we don't. I don't use it and most doctors/healthcare people I have spoken to use kilogrammes, at least in records. Only laypeople use stones.

Laypeople are exactly who the questioner was referring to, since he asked whether stones were 'commonly' used.

The first match on Google UK for "body weight chart" is on the NHS website, which I would suggest is fairly authoritative. The standard axes and the grid on the chart use measurements of stones and feet/inches, while the metric equivalents are relegated to the top and right.




 

Offline c4757p

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Re: Why not ban AWG
« Reply #136 on: October 15, 2013, 03:41:39 pm »
No we don't. I don't use it and most doctors/healthcare people I have spoken to use kilogrammes, at least in records. Only laypeople use stones.

My mother is a nurse and uses metric units regularly. This is here in the Land of Measuring Shit with Some Dude's Body Parts. It's all about the laypeople.
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Offline casper.bang

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Re: Why not ban AWG
« Reply #137 on: October 15, 2013, 06:49:22 pm »
No we don't. I don't use it and most doctors/healthcare people I have spoken to use kilogrammes, at least in records. Only laypeople use stones.

Good to hear. However, when I watch Embarrassing bodies they do appear to talk "stones" which sounds odd.
 

Offline free_electron

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Re: Why not ban AWG
« Reply #138 on: October 15, 2013, 08:35:21 pm »
Indeed, for instance there's the Geordie night out scale:

-30C: T-shirt
-20C: T-shirt
-10C: T-shirt
0C: T-shirt
10C: T-shirt
20C: T-shirt
30C: T-shirt
35C: T-shirt
37C: T-shirt
40C: T-shirt

:)

Here's my scale:

-30C: i heard this exists but i don't believe it
-20C: i heard this exists but i don't believe it
-10C: i heard this exists but i don't believe it
0C: i heard this exists but i don't believe it
10C: a cold morning in California
20C: a cold morning in California
30C: Pool time + barbeque
35C: Pool time + barbeque
37C: Absolutely pool time + Barbeque
40C: Time to kick on the Airconditioning


Now, as why the OP has problems with arbitrary waveform generators ... i guess he's still stuck in oscillators made from glass balloons containing a heating element and some scrap metal...
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Any comments, or points of view expressed, are my own and not endorsed , induced or compensated by my employer(s).
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Why not ban AWG
« Reply #139 on: October 15, 2013, 08:47:09 pm »
-30 to 0C is the inside of the freezer and the fridge, where you keep the meat for the BBQ and the drinks for same.......

Then again, I did a few years in a small town, where the weather was predictable. 6AM sun rises, it is 18C in winter and 25C in summer. 7AM it is 20C in winter and 30C in summer. 10AM it is 40C. 1PM it is 43C. We had a big problem with upcountry people coming here in winter ( Kruger national park) and dropping dead from heatstroke, while we were complaining how cold 20C was and using jerseys.
 

Offline AlfBaz

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Re: Why not ban AWG
« Reply #140 on: October 15, 2013, 09:31:09 pm »
40C is damn hot... Our plants certainly don't like it
 

Offline KJDS

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Re: Why not ban AWG
« Reply #141 on: October 16, 2013, 09:01:11 am »
No we don't. I don't use it and most doctors/healthcare people I have spoken to use kilogrammes, at least in records. Only laypeople use stones.

Good to hear. However, when I watch Embarrassing bodies they do appear to talk "stones" which sounds odd.

Everyone in England will use stones and pounds for bodyweight.

The weight of cricket bats is also given in pounds and ounces.

Offline grumpydoc

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Re: Why not ban AWG
« Reply #142 on: October 16, 2013, 09:52:16 am »
Quote
Everyone in England will use stones and pounds for bodyweight.

Most, yes, although I know my weight in kg and would have to convert it mentally if you wanted Imperial.

The system I have most difficulty with, however, is the US practice of quoting body weight in pounds which I have to convert to either kg or stones+lbs before I have any concept of what it means.

I can't cope with engine capacities in cubic inches either :)
 

Online vk6zgo

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Re: Why not ban AWG
« Reply #143 on: October 16, 2013, 03:59:51 pm »
Why is it the only SUPERPOWER country  keep using AWG ?


Then i did see this https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/how-to-meassure-awg/?topicseen  :palm: Why not just give in to the meter system like us that already did see the light

Back in the day,in Oz,we had to contend with both AWG (we called it B&S),& SWG,which was the Brit gauge standard.
They were not very compatible,& conversion charts were few & far between.

Of course,wire companies had the charts,& transformer winders,but the rest of us were battling.

Micrometers were rare,as they were expensive,so direct measurement was usually out of the question.
The standard trick,if you had a sample of both which looked pretty similar,was to wind,say.10-20 turns on a round former,& measure the length occupied by the winding.
If it was close,you could say it was near enough.

Most hobbyists just guessed! ;D

We also had the delights of Brit stuff with BSF,and/or Whitworth.and/or UNF bolts,plus BA screws,often all in the same piece of equipment!

Small screws in German equipment used very fine threads which were in no way compatible with the equally metric threads used in Japanese stuff.

Then there were the American screws,which,although nominally Imperial,bore no resemblance to Whitworth/UNC.or SAE/UNF.

You always lost one,& they were unobtainium!!
I nearly lost a couple off my Tektronix 7613 yesterday!!
 

Offline Stonent

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Re: Why not ban AWG
« Reply #144 on: October 16, 2013, 06:12:08 pm »
Just curious...do people in the UK still commonly use "stone" as the unit for weight?

For bodyweight, yes.

No we don't. I don't use it and most doctors/healthcare people I have spoken to use kilogrammes, at least in records. Only laypeople use stones.
Ay! Let's go down pub and get some 473 milliliters!
The larger the government, the smaller the citizen.
 

Offline rolycat

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Re: Why not ban AWG
« Reply #145 on: October 16, 2013, 06:46:39 pm »
Ay! Let's go down pub and get some 473 milliliters!

Eh up lad, proper English folk don't muck abaht with them poncy little Yankee pints.

(Not all of us talk like comedy Yorkshiremen, either).

There are about 568 millilitres in a proper Imperial pint.
 

Offline senso

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Re: Why not ban AWG
« Reply #146 on: October 16, 2013, 07:26:18 pm »
At least here you can have 250cc, 300cc, 500cc and 1000cc beers(minus the foam  :-DD )
 

Online vk6zgo

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Re: Why not ban AWG
« Reply #147 on: October 17, 2013, 02:42:29 am »
At least here you can have 250cc, 300cc, 500cc and 1000cc beers(minus the foam  :-DD )

Back in the day in Oz,we could buy our beer in "glasses","middies","schooners" & "pots".

After metrication,they were all specified in metric terms,so all was well.

Now,we seem to have creeping re-Imperialisation--------you can't buy your beer in traditional measures,it's all in PINTS for Pete's sake!!!

I believe all the little "Trendoids" think it makes them more sophisticated-------even if they haven't been to London,they can pretend!! ;D

To add insult to injury,as the "Pint" pots don't show capacity,I don't know if we are getting full-blooded Pommy Pints,or wimpy US- style ones! ;D

 

Offline DutchGert

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Re: Why not ban AWG
« Reply #148 on: October 17, 2013, 01:13:17 pm »
 

Offline casper.bang

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Re: Why not ban AWG
« Reply #149 on: October 17, 2013, 01:37:48 pm »
Ohh well, given the super huge unfathomable debts of the US and the fact that > 34% is owned by metric nations, I predict a reform sometime in the next decade when that number sneaks above 50% and the US becomes new territory of China, Japan, Brazil etc.  :-DD
 


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