Author Topic: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs  (Read 6241 times)

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Offline Homer J Simpson

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Offline samgab

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2017, 11:24:14 pm »
Hasn't this technology been around since 1984?
 

Offline Benta

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2017, 11:36:51 pm »
So, what else is new? The Samsung remote access was discovered several months ago, and that CIA and others use it as well is obvious.

It easy to prevent, though. Just stop connecting every d*mn thing you have to the Internet!

A TV works fine without a web connection. And the antenna/cable signal is one-way.

 
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Offline jonovid

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2017, 01:25:15 am »
-WikiLeaks

among former U.S. government hackers and contractors in an unauthorized manner,
one of whom has provided WikiLeaks with portions of the archive.
"Year Zero" introduces the scope and direction of the CIA's global covert hacking
program, its malware arsenal and dozens of "zero day" weaponized exploits against
a wide range of U.S. and European company products, include Apple's iPhone,
Google's Android and Microsoft's Windows and even Samsung TVs, which are
turned into covert microphones.

-WikiLeaks
CIA malware targets iPhone, Android, smart TVs
CIA malware and hacking tools are bui lt by EDG (Engineering Development Group),
a software development group within CCI (Center for Cyber Intelligence), a
department belonging to the CIA's DDI (Directorate for Digital Innovation). The DDI is
one of the five major directorates of the CIA (see this organizational chart of the CIA
for more details).
The EDG is responsible for the development, testing and operational support of all
backdoors, exploits, malicious payloads, trojans, viruses and any other kind of
malware used by the CIA in its covert operations world-wide.
The increasing sophistication of surveillance techniques has drawn comparisons with
George Orwell's 1984, but "Weeping Angel", developed by the CIA's Embedded
Devices Branch (EDB), which infests smart TVs, transforming them into covert
microphones, is surely its most emblematic realization.

-WikiLeaks
CIA malware targets Windows, OSx, Linux,
routers
The CIA also runs a very substantial effort to infect and control Microsoft Windows
users with its malware. This includes multiple local and remote weaponized "zero
days", air gap jumping viruses such as "Hammer Drill" which infects software
distributed on CD/DVDs, infectors for removable media such as USBs, systems
to hide data in images or in covert disk areas ( "Brutal Kangaroo") and to keep its
malware infestations going.
Many of these infection efforts are pulled together by the CIA's Automated Implant
Branch (AIB), which has developed several attack systems for automated infestation
and control of CIA malware, such as "Assassin" and "Medusa".
Attacks against Internet infrastructure and webservers are developed by the
CIA's Network Devices Branch (NDB).
The CIA has developed automated multi-platform malware attack and control
systems covering Windows, Mac OS X, Solaris, Linux and more, such as EDB's
"HIVE" and the related "Cutthroat" and "Swindle" tools, which are described in the
examples section below.
CIA 'hoarded' vulnerabilities ("zero days")
In the wake of Edward Snowden's leaks about the NSA, the U.S. technology industry
secured a commitment from the Obama administration that the executive would
Hobbyist with a basic knowledge of electronics
 

Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2017, 10:24:33 am »
You mean the CIA would spy on people? Hardly any surprise. The CIA does not get any lower than this... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_El-Masri.
 
The US government has lost respect throughout the world and I don't think it will ever get it back in our lifetime.
 

Offline CJay

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2017, 04:20:36 pm »
You mean the CIA would spy on people? Hardly any surprise. The CIA does not get any lower than this... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_El-Masri.
 
The US government has lost respect throughout the world and I don't think it will ever get it back in our lifetime.
[/quote
If I had only one thing (there are many) I could respect Americans for it might have been their willingness to rally behind the office of the president.

I've never seen such division and lack of support for someone who purports to be president, I'm not sure the US government has any respect from an awful lot of it's own citizens now, never mind the rest of the world and it's only going to get worse as the holes the current incumbent is digging get deeper and he's busy going head to head with his own intelligence community.
 

Offline Bud

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2017, 05:21:32 pm »
You forget to say "IMHO".
Dont make it look as if everybody thinks the same.
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Offline Halcyon

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2017, 06:59:59 pm »
I don't know why this news comes as a surprise to anyone who understands technology. It's fairly common knowledge that federal and state security agencies and law enforcement organisations around the world have been exploiting consumer devices fitted with cameras and/or microphones for quite a long time. Why should today's "smart' TVs be any different?

Their methodology is kept very secret and under wraps even among individual departments within an organisation.

There is so much light on organisations such as the CIA, ASIO etc... because they are so secretive and mysterious to the general public, people are quick to forget the bigger state Police organisations in the Western world also have similar funding and capabilities.
 

Offline Codebird

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2017, 07:06:43 pm »
It's no great surprise. The CIA is a spy agency. This sort of thing is their job, and they are very good at it. I'd expect nothing less from them than a whole library of state-of-the-art bugs, hardware and software.

So long as they stay within the law and focus their efforts on the right people, that's no problem. The outrage over the NSA wasn't that they spied on people, it's that they spied on everyone nondiscriminately, without any regard for warrants or external oversight, including the citizens of their own country en mass.

The only thing the CIA leaks reveal that might be grounds for any concern at all is that the CIA, having discovered exploits, deliberately did not inform the responsible vendors in order to prevent patching. Bad security practice, certainly, but even then I expect any other intelligence agency in the world would have done the same.

Perhaps there is some really big scandal in there still, it just hasn't been found yet.
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2017, 07:15:40 pm »
It's no great surprise. The CIA is a spy agency. This sort of thing is their job, and they are very good at it. I'd expect nothing less from them than a whole library of state-of-the-art bugs, hardware and software.

So long as they stay within the law and focus their efforts on the right people, that's no problem.

Yep, you're spot on. I sleep pretty well at night knowing that organisations such as the CIA are doing what they do. Their good work by far outweighs any negatives by many orders of magnitude.
 

Offline iainwhite

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2017, 07:41:41 pm »
Dave has already brought a product to market to protect you from government spy agencies and the like...



 
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Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2017, 12:44:28 am »
It's no great surprise. The CIA is a spy agency. This sort of thing is their job, and they are very good at it. I'd expect nothing less from them than a whole library of state-of-the-art bugs, hardware and software.

So long as they stay within the law and focus their efforts on the right people, that's no problem.


Try telling that to Khalid El Masri. With all their "whole library of state-of-the-art bugs, hardware and software" they could even get the bloke's name right :-DD.

Let's not forget the CIA spying on Angela Merkel. What kind of friends and allies spy on you and tap your phones?
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2017, 02:52:19 am »
What kind of friends and allies spy on you and tap your phones?

Pretty much anybody who has the capabilities...
 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2017, 02:59:12 am »
It would appear that all those voice-command gadgets are just begging for spying.  In order for them to work, they must be listening all the time, and sending the audio back to the "mother ship" over the public internet for voice recognition.  It likely wouldn't even take a high-school graduate to figure out how to tap into that. 
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2017, 03:11:08 am »
What kind of friends and allies spy on you and tap your phones?

Pretty much anybody who has the capabilities...

Which includes several of the larger economies in the EU, a certain country that is also a continent, many folks in Asia, certainly including the most populous and those nuclear capable and last but certainly not least the empire that was larger before the 1980s. 

The US may have bumbled more than others and is certainly a bigger target than most, but it has lots of company in this business.
 

Offline bitwelder

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2017, 09:23:10 am »
It would appear that all those voice-command gadgets are just begging for spying.  In order for them to work, they must be listening all the time, and sending the audio back to the "mother ship" over the public internet for voice recognition.  It likely wouldn't even take a high-school graduate to figure out how to tap into that.
I somehow doubt that they are streaming all the time audio to "mother ship". It wouldn't economically makes sense for the 'service provider' that would have to process a huge amount of data most of the time for nothing.
Rather, I think those gadgets would process audio locally until they detect some 'magic word' indicating that a human is talking to them and only then they would open a channel to the service provider 'cloud' in order to analyse the complex sentence speech.
 

Offline Ampera

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2017, 09:51:40 am »
Welcome to the Internet of Things.

We let the government spy on you while skids use your bandwidth to run over a few multinational corporations with a botnet every so often.

But hey, at least you can check if you still have any milk in your fridge while you're at the shops, or at least until the app crashes.

The government can spy on you through any media they want. Think of it from this perspective. If you fill a building full of security nuts, loads of computing power, and tons of budget money, what do you think will come out?
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Offline Codebird

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2017, 04:38:53 pm »
Quote
Which includes several of the larger economies in the EU, a certain country that is also a continent, many folks in Asia, certainly including the most populous and those nuclear capable and last but certainly not least the empire that was larger before the 1980s. 

Don't forget the land of the long-running territorial-dispute-with-religious-implications. They also have an intelligence service of great renown. If they were just a little bit better, no-one would know they had one at all.
 
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Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2017, 04:45:06 am »
Not really surprising, it's why I don't trust any of this cloud stuff. 
 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2017, 05:03:00 pm »
 

Offline jonovid

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2017, 06:03:44 pm »
Quote
Quote
Quote from: VK3DRB on March 11, 2017, 11:44:28 AM
What kind of friends and allies spy on you and tap your phones?

Pretty much anybody who has the capabilities...
the problem is when your philosophy ,political and or religious views do Not agree with the ideology of government , the Vatican, hollywood , the news media or multinational corporations.
spying can be abused.  as with the people that voted for President Trump. also as with the people that voted for the UK Brexit.
having strong patriotic feelings. that are against the globalist agendas. 
Hobbyist with a basic knowledge of electronics
 

Offline Galenbo

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2017, 01:39:07 pm »
TV
If you try and take a cat apart to see how it works, the first thing you have on your hands is a nonworking cat.
 
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Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2017, 02:39:02 pm »
To keep a bit of EE theme, has anyone played with these TVs with test gear such as spectrum analyzer, ex: reverse engineer them to find out how they communicate, or how excessive they spy etc? Could make for some interesting research.
 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2017, 04:17:17 pm »
They communicate via WiFi/internet.
A packet-sniffer would be more useful than a spectrum analyzer. We know the spectrum (2.4GH WiFi)
If there aren't already videos up on YouTube about how it is done, the research is probably already underway and will be reported in detail at the next hacker convention.
 

Offline raspberrypi

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2017, 04:21:17 pm »
Hasn't this technology been around since 1984?

Welcome to 1984. I'm more worried about corporations using and selling my info. The Bush administration was around as all this new technology came out and it was "deregulated" when we need strict laws as far as privacy.

Everything I own with a camera has a piece of tape over it. The microphone scares me though. This is what the FBI does.
I'm legally blind so sometimes I ask obvious questions, but its because I can't see well.
 

Offline Galenbo

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2017, 05:09:09 pm »
... The microphone scares me though. This is what the FBI does.

http://www.donationcoder.com/Software/Skrommel/
--> PushToTalk
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Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2017, 07:15:27 pm »
They communicate via WiFi/internet.
A packet-sniffer would be more useful than a spectrum analyzer. We know the spectrum (2.4GH WiFi)
If there aren't already videos up on YouTube about how it is done, the research is probably already underway and will be reported in detail at the next hacker convention.

Wouldn't that require that there is an open wifi spot somewhere though?  It would limit how many TVs can communicate.  Or perhaps they all communicate with each other as a mesh, and it only takes one open wifi in the nieghbourhood to work?

Or is it actually counting on people actually plugging them in or configuring it for their wifi network.  Are people that daft? (ok maybe you don't have to answer that.  :-DD )

Suppose it's possible to communicate via HDMI too.  For example my TV remote can control my Raspberry Pi, which is connected to the network.   Perhaps it can send other data too.
 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2017, 12:44:12 am »
Or is it actually counting on people actually plugging them in or configuring it for their wifi network.
Of course they are connecting them to their internet service (whether hard-wired or WiFi)  "Smart" TVs can only operate if they have access to the internet.  A standalone TV receiving broadcast signals through the air from an antenna can't transmit anything.
Quote
Suppose it's possible to communicate via HDMI too.  For example my TV remote can control my Raspberry Pi, which is connected to the network.   Perhaps it can send other data too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#HEC
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 12:46:29 am by Richard Crowley »
 

Offline Dinsdale

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2017, 11:48:32 am »
I had DirectTV service via the normal dish antenna. I have internet service via a microwave link and hardwired ethernet from there to my computer -- no WIFI. My TVs have never been connected to the internet or phone lines.
During service calls, the rep was able to tell me the make and model of my TV. I have always wondered how they got that info.
This can't be happening.
 

Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2017, 01:35:37 pm »
Or is it actually counting on people actually plugging them in or configuring it for their wifi network.
Of course they are connecting them to their internet service (whether hard-wired or WiFi)  "Smart" TVs can only operate if they have access to the internet.  A standalone TV receiving broadcast signals through the air from an antenna can't transmit anything.

Wow so it won't let you use it unless you connect it to a network?   I guess when my TV breaks I'll be replacing it with a projector or a giant monitor or something.  I hate the way this stuff is going.  So many things that need internet now just for the sake of it.
 

Offline Photon939

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2017, 01:43:27 pm »
I had DirectTV service via the normal dish antenna. I have internet service via a microwave link and hardwired ethernet from there to my computer -- no WIFI. My TVs have never been connected to the internet or phone lines.
During service calls, the rep was able to tell me the make and model of my TV. I have always wondered how they got that info.

If your DirecTV box is connected via HDMI then it can get an ID string that way. The same way your PC can tell the make and model of your monitor. (as well as compatible resolutions) As a side note VGA has this capability as well.
 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #31 on: March 17, 2017, 02:21:08 pm »
Wow so it won't let you use it unless you connect it to a network? 
Its not a matter of "won't let you use it".  All the features of a "smart TV" DEPEND on an internet connection. All that information is not transmitted with the program. It is only accessible through the "side-channel" connection to the intetnet. Exactly like the one you are using to read this text. The only way you got to read this is by requesting it from the server. And now everyone knows that you are reading this.  A "smart TV" is just a computer like this one, but with a more limited user interface and a more specialized function (finding TV content and information about them). The statistics (or individual information) about you reading this message are no different than the data that is available (and likely gathered at some level) when you watch a TV show.
Quote
I guess when my TV breaks I'll be replacing it with a projector or a giant monitor or something. 
That makes no difference.  It isn't about what is being used to display the image. It is about what is being used to request and receive and decide the image (the computer or cable box or Chromecast or FireStick or "Smart TV" or whatever).
Quote
I hate the way this stuff is going.  So many things that need internet now just for the sake of it.
Many people are coming to agree that things are being "connected" just for the novelty or sales gimmic.  But "Smart TV" is completely DEPENDENT on an internet connection. Its not a novelty. It is a requirement. And if you don't like it (neither do I), then you can't take advantage of the features.  They are not important to me, so I watch TV from broadcast stations over the air.  But when I watch TV shows on YouTube or Hulu or CBS or whatever, I am aware that I am being tracked.  So like most things you must weigh the trade-off between benefit and consequences.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 02:24:30 pm by Richard Crowley »
 

Offline Dinsdale

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #32 on: March 17, 2017, 03:12:18 pm »
Quote
If your DirecTV box is connected via HDMI then it can get an ID string that way.
Yes, HDMI from my TV to the satellite box.
Then how to the service rep?
This can't be happening.
 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #33 on: March 17, 2017, 04:04:53 pm »
Yes, HDMI from my TV to the satellite box.
Then how to the service rep?
Do you have pay-per-view?
Is your satellite box connected to WiFi?  Local Ethernet?  Telephone line?
Unless you have satellite-delivered internet service, the satellite box can't talk back via satellite.
But your decoder box must have some link back to the mother-ship.
 

Offline boffin

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2017, 04:25:12 pm »
What's new about this? 

I've heard politicians say they spy from a Microwave Oven :-DD
 

Offline Dinsdale

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2017, 04:56:10 pm »
I meant TV to cover "everything".
I have a TV, stereo, VCR, DVD/BluRay, satellite box, and LNA. That's every active element I can think of in my entertainment system. There are two hard wired floor speakers to the stereo, and an OTA antenna to the TV.
I run two PCs, one is the gateway to my ISP (described previously), the other internally networked with hard-wired ethernet.
There is no WIFI in the house. There is only Bluetooth when I run those as related to my electronics projects. Those were not on during the service calls.  I don't have NEST, any boxes that listen to my voice commands, any appliances that connect to more than the wall outlet, and no security system at all (nothing running on my house wiring or via any radio signals).
There is no internet other than described. I do not have land-line phone service. I have one cell phone, a TracFone, LG850g, which is not even a "smart phone".
No other equipment or connections have ever existed previously in my house.
I do not dispute the fact that data is not transmitted back to DirecTV via satellite. Yet they know my TV make and model (of both TVs that I have owned at different times).
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 05:02:19 pm by Dinsdale »
This can't be happening.
 

Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #36 on: March 17, 2017, 05:59:44 pm »
Wow so it won't let you use it unless you connect it to a network? 
Its not a matter of "won't let you use it".  All the features of a "smart TV" DEPEND on an internet connection. All that information is not transmitted with the program. It is only accessible through the "side-channel" connection to the intetnet. Exactly like the one you are using to read this text. The only way you got to read this is by requesting it from the server. And now everyone knows that you are reading this.  A "smart TV" is just a computer like this one, but with a more limited user interface and a more specialized function (finding TV content and information about them). The statistics (or individual information) about you reading this message are no different than the data that is available (and likely gathered at some level) when you watch a TV show.
Quote
I guess when my TV breaks I'll be replacing it with a projector or a giant monitor or something. 
That makes no difference.  It isn't about what is being used to display the image. It is about what is being used to request and receive and decide the image (the computer or cable box or Chromecast or FireStick or "Smart TV" or whatever).
Quote
I hate the way this stuff is going.  So many things that need internet now just for the sake of it.
Many people are coming to agree that things are being "connected" just for the novelty or sales gimmic.  But "Smart TV" is completely DEPENDENT on an internet connection. Its not a novelty. It is a requirement. And if you don't like it (neither do I), then you can't take advantage of the features.  They are not important to me, so I watch TV from broadcast stations over the air.  But when I watch TV shows on YouTube or Hulu or CBS or whatever, I am aware that I am being tracked.  So like most things you must weigh the trade-off between benefit and consequences.

But if I just want to use the TV to display something from another source (ex: Raspberry PI) then why should I need to plug the TV itself in the internet?  I just want a TV to be a screen.   They should make the smart stuff optional.
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #37 on: March 17, 2017, 06:50:23 pm »
All of the smart TVs use some form of internet connection - an ethernet plug, WiFi, Bluetooth.  Shut that down and it is just a TV.  Even if you wear a tinfoil hat, you have control of the connector, or the connection.  Don't allow that device onto your WiFi or to link Bluetooth.  Don't plug the ethernet cable in.
 

Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #38 on: March 17, 2017, 08:29:36 pm »
All of the smart TVs use some form of internet connection - an ethernet plug, WiFi, Bluetooth.  Shut that down and it is just a TV.  Even if you wear a tinfoil hat, you have control of the connector, or the connection.  Don't allow that device onto your WiFi or to link Bluetooth.  Don't plug the ethernet cable in.

Will the TV still work though, I'm getting the impression that these are setup so they don't work at all.  Or is that not the case?

Though TBH I originally thought these used some other type of RF that is not within your control, did not figure stopping the spying was as simple as not configuring the network for it.   So if you can simply not plug in the network, but still use it as a TV, then that is a super easy way to solve the spying problem.   

Of course you won't stop them from spying on your internet, but to me there are two levels of spying here, spying of your activities outside your house - not much you can do, then there is spying on your activities within your own house - aka backdoors in systems.  This there is more you can do, and may as well do your best to prevent it.  It's also why I won't touch windows 10, and I am very diligent about what connects to my network.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 09:39:04 pm by Red Squirrel »
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #39 on: March 18, 2017, 12:23:53 am »
All of the smart TVs use some form of internet connection - an ethernet plug, WiFi, Bluetooth.  Shut that down and it is just a TV.  Even if you wear a tinfoil hat, you have control of the connector, or the connection.  Don't allow that device onto your WiFi or to link Bluetooth.  Don't plug the ethernet cable in.

Will the TV still work though, I'm getting the impression that these are setup so they don't work at all.  Or is that not the case?

Though TBH I originally thought these used some other type of RF that is not within your control, did not figure stopping the spying was as simple as not configuring the network for it.   So if you can simply not plug in the network, but still use it as a TV, then that is a super easy way to solve the spying problem.   

Of course you won't stop them from spying on your internet, but to me there are two levels of spying here, spying of your activities outside your house - not much you can do, then there is spying on your activities within your own house - aka backdoors in systems.  This there is more you can do, and may as well do your best to prevent it.  It's also why I won't touch windows 10, and I am very diligent about what connects to my network.

I can't speak for all makes and models, but  the ones I have owned work fine as TVs without the internet connection.  You just don't get access to the "smart" features.  Things like Hulu, YouTube and schedule services.  Since I am on a data limited internet connection I routinely block these bandwidth wasters.
 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #40 on: March 18, 2017, 12:41:04 am »
I have never seen a "Smart TV" that REQUIRES a network connection to operate as a simple broadcast receiver.  The "smart" features are EXTRA on top of the basic TV receiver/display functionality.

I wouldn't be shocked if someday there were "smart TV" products that require a network connection. But I'm thinking that the average consumer wouldn't find that terribly attractive.
 

Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #41 on: March 18, 2017, 04:35:48 am »
This is good to know then, so basically if you don't connect it to any network, then the spy stuff can't work at all, but it will still work as a regular TV?  I always had the impressing this spy stuff was using some other type of communication like 3G and not actually relying on the user connecting it. 
 

Offline bitwelder

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #42 on: March 18, 2017, 08:10:40 am »
I wouldn't be shocked if someday there were "smart TV" products that require a network connection. But I'm thinking that the average consumer wouldn't find that terribly attractive.
What if some vendor sells an amazingly specced, giant-sized smart TV screen at a very attractive price.
The little string attached is that the owner has to keep it on the network to keep its 'license' valid (à la AutoCAD Eagle), perhaps for a fee.


 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #43 on: March 19, 2017, 06:18:51 am »
I wouldn't be shocked if someday there were "smart TV" products that require a network connection. But I'm thinking that the average consumer wouldn't find that terribly attractive.
What if some vendor sells an amazingly specced, giant-sized smart TV screen at a very attractive price.
The little string attached is that the owner has to keep it on the network to keep its 'license' valid (à la AutoCAD Eagle), perhaps for a fee.

The market will speak, just as it will for Autocad.  If that TV price is low enough they will sell a bunch.  Then it will depend on how much they are paid for the information they gather.
 

Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #44 on: March 19, 2017, 06:29:07 am »
I wouldn't be shocked if someday there were "smart TV" products that require a network connection. But I'm thinking that the average consumer wouldn't find that terribly attractive.
What if some vendor sells an amazingly specced, giant-sized smart TV screen at a very attractive price.
The little string attached is that the owner has to keep it on the network to keep its 'license' valid (à la AutoCAD Eagle), perhaps for a fee.

The market will speak, just as it will for Autocad.  If that TV price is low enough they will sell a bunch.  Then it will depend on how much they are paid for the information they gather.

Sadly the general public does not really seem to care.  I could see it working. It works for Office 360.  And John Deere tractors, and lot of other stuff.

I personally can't stand the concept. I want to be able to actually fully own and have control over what I buy. 
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Wikileaks: CIA has tools to snoop via TVs
« Reply #45 on: March 19, 2017, 06:44:16 am »

I personally can't stand the concept. I want to be able to actually fully own and have control over what I buy.

Me too.  That is why I don't have Office 360 or other similar products.
 


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