Author Topic: wikileaks julian is a hero  (Read 12125 times)

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Offline quantumfall

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wikileaks julian is a hero
« on: December 18, 2010, 12:19:17 am »
I wish I had the guts to support free speech and honesty as much.  That is I know our world society (with arrest world wide) is a piss take against freedom.
 

Offline Psi

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2010, 12:38:52 am »
what about the guy who's accused of leaking the info and is in solitary 23h/day for the past 5 months :(

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/12/14/manning/index.html
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Offline JohnS_AZ

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2010, 05:11:19 am »
Greenwald isn't subject to the regular civilian justice system, rather he's dealing with the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice). That's what he agreed to when he voluntarily enlisted in the military. I'm guessing that they are going to charge him with treason which is a capital offense and thus he COULD get the death penalty, but that's hugely unlikely given the political skew and publicity of the case. I do, however, imagine he's going to spend a few decades in Leavenworth. And I'm okay with that.

Interestingly, Austrailia's law is about the same, except the max penalty is life in prison, not death.

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Offline GeoffS

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2010, 05:26:36 am »
The AFP (Australian Federal Police) have already decided that Assange has broken no Australian laws.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2010, 07:07:29 am »
The AFP (Australian Federal Police) have already decided that Assange has broken no Australian laws.

And will Gillard apologise for the slander when she said the opposite? When hell freezes.
As much as I hate them - engage the lawyers I say.
Gillard needs to go down for that.

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Uncle Vernon

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2010, 07:42:25 am »
The AFP (Australian Federal Police) have already decided that Assange has broken no Australian laws.


That is until they cook up some new laws and apply them retrospectively. Wouldn't put that one past Team Gillard if events in NSW are anything to go by.

And will Gillard apologise for the slander when she said the opposite? When hell freezes.
As much as I hate them - engage the lawyers I say.
Gillard needs to go down for that.

Dave.

Gillard apologise? She could write a book full of all the apologies she should be making. I didn't need Wiki-leaks to help me determine that Rudd was a an accident prone control freak, his white-anting deputy of the time shares the same short-comings.

While on the subject of free speech, lets not forget Labor's (thankfully inept) Internet filter, Wiki-leaks being one of it's key targets.

Yes Gillard needs to go down, perhaps a posting to the coast of Christmas Island where she could view first hand the human results of divisive and inept Government policy.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2010, 08:36:52 am »
This case has really turned me against the american government, How funny what a flipping coincidence, he pisses them off and suddenly he is wanted on rape charges, the sort of charges that people take seriously and seriously hate people for when they are charged with it. This clearly shows how below the belt they are willing to go which is just the sort of thing he uncovered. I cannot believe it is a coincidence. I'm so pleased I don't live in ameraica  and never will even if paid to !
 

Offline Chris_R

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2010, 11:13:02 am »
I was all for wikileaks when the government was lying and they were spreading the truth.  But these are now just leaking for the sake of leaking, basically going haha look we've got all your secret messages and we're going to tell everyone even if it raises worldwide tension.
As someone said (I can't remember who) , It's like stealing someone's phone and reading out their bitchy texts about why the don't want to go to their mother in law's for christmas dinner.
 

Online Zero999

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2010, 11:48:50 am »
Yes I agree, although wikileaks is a good idea, they have been a bit petty recently, the trouble is they don't seem to have any quality control.

Oh and by the way, we've never had free speech, in any country and probably never will, it's a myth.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2010, 12:22:23 pm »
well I've not gone into the details but did get the imediate impression that they were being petty and uneccesarily raising more problems, we don't particularly need to know that one of irans neiboring kings wants to see their leader dead, i think we all do he is dangerous but no need to mak an incident over the obvious.

still the american govs methods are questionable
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2010, 12:53:20 pm »
where can i get "raw explosive" materials? the important thing is its undetectable and be seen as safe material while in raw (unmixed) mode. i want to import bit by bit, and i want to build an army to fight the "corruption". there is no point talking politics here, there will be no end. i think i better take action instead of talk. government is going "over the head". just by talking wont stop them! only death will!
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline Simon

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2010, 12:59:10 pm »
ask Julian  ;D
 

Offline Chris_R

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2010, 04:16:36 pm »
Julian won't be able to tell you that, but he will be able to tell you about one person who once discussed explosives with his coworker on his lunch break,
 

Offline XynxNet

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2010, 07:44:51 pm »
Well he shows us some faults and self lies in our societies and makes them kind of hard to ignore/deny.
These are free speach, international influence, 'clean' warfare, the justice system, human rights and generally the incongruence between the values we pretend to promote and those we adhere to.
 

Offline Zyvek

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2010, 08:23:52 pm »
I'd be interested in the wikileaks  if they had anything of interest, instead of the same old boring political crap.

Once 'wikileeks'' tell me the real secrets about cold fusion, the water engine, and the Alien abduction/world gov't/Paris Hilton/peanut butter supply conspiracy I'll pay attention.  Plus we all know about them (you know who THEY are, don't you? Dave does) hoarding the technology that would allow gray LEDs.  Don't even get me started about the whole PPN/NNP transistor debacle.

Until then I won't even talk wikileeks until I have my tinfoil hat on.  We all know why there's a tinfoil shortage don't we?   ;D

 
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Offline Zyvek

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Re: wikileaks julian is a
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2010, 08:29:47 pm »
« Last Edit: December 18, 2010, 09:07:26 pm by Zyvek »
-Z
 

Uncle Vernon

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2010, 09:03:16 pm »
I was all for wikileaks when the government was lying and they were spreading the truth.  But these are now just leaking for the sake of leaking, basically going haha look we've got all your secret messages and we're going to tell everyone even if it raises worldwide tension.

Has to raise the question though, why is there so much tension over the publication of boorish nothings by a strangle little man with a bad haircut?

In Australia the government believes it can spend or create policy in secrecy without recourse by simply adding "commercial in confidence" to every document.

If Wiki-leaks annoys me I can simply not bother to read it. I don't get that choice with the actions of government. I have to suspect the motives of any government hell bent on shutting down the website of any strange little man with bad hair.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2010, 12:10:00 am »
The reason the governments are scared of Wikileaks is because it changes the entire status quo when it comes to so called "free journalism".
It changes the game and gives the power back to the people to potentially expose the government or other big corporations, and that scares the shit out of them. That is why the governments will do anything they can to shut it down, and set precedence so they can shut down similar leak and free speech journalism internet sites that will inevitably spring up. They also want to set an example to whistleblowers so they will think twice about speaking out against something that is wrong.

Those who say they don't like Wikileaks because of what it is publishing are missing the point entirely.
It has nothing to do with what they have published.
It's a principle thing about free speech and the right to publish in general, and the journalistic right to protect their source.
It's about giving whistle blowers an avenue to speak out without fear of identification or persecution.
It's about using the Internet for it's destined role of freedom of information for everyone.

The crazy American politicians in their blind and brainwashed psychotic rage under the disguise of patriotism calling for his execution or incarceration are ultimately trying to shut down the very best mechanism that will give the Amercian (and all) people the ultimate freedom they claim they have and aspire too. They fail to realise the same mechanism they are trying to silence is the one that could prevent the next terrorist attack or horrific war.

This is why everyone should put aside their opinions and get behind Julian and Wikileaks, whether or not you like him or the stuff he has published.
It's a new world order in journalism, free speech, and the citizenry standing up and saying with a strong voice that THEY are in control.
Julian is the pioneering hero of the new information revolution, and he MUST be supported by every citizen of every country for the benefit of all of our future freedoms.

Dave.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2010, 12:11:47 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline JohnS_AZ

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2010, 03:51:58 am »
Quote
They fail to realize the same mechanism they are trying to silence is the one that could prevent the next terrorist attack or horrific war.

Or start it.
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Offline Simon

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2010, 08:51:57 am »
in my lack of knowledge and not having the time to trawl through the site, I admire the principle but don't agree with all of the publications, if it creates more tensions between two middle east countries then yes we are looking at another war, but there lots we should know and don't. It needs a healthy balance but the principle is a good one
 

Offline Chris_R

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2010, 10:40:32 am »
Dave, I am all for free speech and I agree that a lot of government publications should be free and open for the public to read, but when it comes to documents regarding worldwide tensions then you've got to know your limits.
There is a reason those documents are secret in the same way that if I approached you to talk to you in confidence about an employee, I would hope that you wouldn't then give that document to the employee in question.  If I sent an email to you saying chloe wants to to see you in her office at 10 then there's no real reason to share that email with the office but there's no harm in doing so.

And of course we're not talking just employees a lot of the time, we're talking about the equivalent of a crazy man with a knife being handed a document saying that a crazy woman with a knife is going to try to get her attack in first.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2010, 10:47:36 am »
Dave, I am all for free speech and I agree that a lot of government publications should be free and open for the public to read, but when it comes to documents regarding worldwide tensions then you've got to know your limits.
There is a reason those documents are secret in the same way that if I approached you to talk to you in confidence about an employee, I would hope that you wouldn't then give that document to the employee in question.  If I sent an email to you saying chloe wants to to see you in her office at 10 then there's no real reason to share that email with the office but there's no harm in doing so.



I couldn't have put it better myself,

I know it may be a bit over the top as it's fantasy anyhow, but imagine every jack public in the 007 films being aware of what 007 was up to ?
 

Offline TheWelly888

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2010, 01:55:33 pm »
Here is a good pisstake of Wikileaks by another YouTuber:
You can do anything with the right attitude and a hammer.
 

Uncle Vernon

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2010, 02:01:07 pm »
There is a reason those documents are secret in the same way that if I approached you to talk to you in confidence about an employee, I would hope that you wouldn't then give that document to the employee in question.

No I think Dave summed it up correctly. Most countries and certainly ALL Western Democracies have legislation such as "official secrets acts" and clearly defined laws of treason to cover disclosure of state secrets. Wikileaks has not crossed those boundaries!  Causing Governments embarrassment, by exposing their ineptitude or media manipulation does not fall under the category of treason or exposure of state secrets.

The argument will no doubt come to the surface "what right do wikileaks have to decide what should be exposed?", I would counter that with what right do go governments various have to hide behind a supposed need for secrecy?

We have clearly defined laws relating of what comprises a national secret, and it is looking obvious that wikileaks hasn't crossed those boundaries. Hell we have government here attempting to allocate $43bn of public money in contracts and expecting to hide their account ability behind a need for secrecy. In short that is "clear and present bullshit"!  Mr Assange , his bad haircut and other similar media help keep politicians honest.  There are boundaries that can be crossed and laws that can be broken but clearly Wikileaks has not crossed such boundaries. Boorish as their content often is, efforts like wikileaks serve a valuable role in keeping governments and individuals within those governments in line, in terms of reasonable public disclosure.
 

Offline quantumfall

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2010, 02:30:53 am »
One of the reasons I asked the question about Julian (wikileaks) Assange is to cause thort and find out how people feel , Sorry to high jack your web place  Dave, please forgive me for that.  As a population of the "New World" with laws made as "treaty",   that is, without anyone of the general population being consulted at all...  we are being enslaved, yes enslaved.

Wikileaks is a freedom loveing thing and is for our benefit I feel,  but of course I cannot be sure all they do is for the best.

I think they are better than the status quo of institutionalized media who or are as much a part of the problems we face now.

Our freedom it's important.. No vital.

Sorry if this is a bit heavy.  Pissed again sorry guys and girls.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2010, 02:42:18 am by quantumfall »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2010, 04:41:41 am »
I think they are better than the status quo of institutionalized media who or are as much a part of the problems we face now.

True enough in general sentiment, but they still have the major role to play and still sometimes manage to do what they should do, like making their own decision to release some of these cables.
Funny how those exact media who have also published leaked documents that have NOT been released on the Wikileaks site are not being hounded much if at all. Yet they have done the exact same thing as Wikileaks.
Is anyone calling for the New York Times or The Australian editors to be assassinated too?
Although there is some mild rumbling in this regard, the traditional press will get away with it because there would be rioting in the streets if the government took them down. Wikileaks and Julian Assange are a much easier target.
Proves that the US government and officials are nothing but frightened bullies.

Quote
Our freedom it's important.. No vital.

Indeed.
Those who can't look beyond the wikileaks cables and understand the heart of the issue are simply blind to this.

Dave.
 

Uncle Vernon

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2010, 05:04:30 am »
True enough in general sentiment, but they still have the major role to play and still sometimes manage to do what they should do, like making their own decision to release some of these cables.
Funny how those exact media who have also published leaked documents that have NOT been released on the Wikileaks site are not being hounded much if at all. Yet they have done the exact same thing as Wikileaks.
Is anyone calling for the New York Times or The Australian editors to be assassinated too?

In the wash-up we need as many diverse sources of media as possible. Governments world wide (even China) have found they cannot manipulate on-line media to their political advantage to the same extent they have done in their long long term love/hate relationship with tradition print and broadcast media. Wiki-leaks is just one tiny soft target in a new paradigm that government are going to need to adjust to.
While many of these Internet sources delve deep into tinfoil hat territory, the availability of them and the ready access to foreign newspapers makes a balanced evaluation of world issues more possible than it ever has been. You can see why it has Rupert and a swag of Governments very nervous.

Proves that the US government and officials are nothing but frightened bullies.

Not just our friends in the YooEssOfAy a lot of other governments and media organisations are looking less than rosy on this one.  Australia's Prime Minister and Accident Prone Communications minister coming immediately to mind.
 

Online Zero999

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2010, 09:17:08 pm »
Talking of censorship. There's a discussion about getting ISPs to block pornography by default to protect children. The only way to access it would be for the person renting the Internet connecting specifically opting out of censorship.

I think this is impractical and isn't the best way to go about protecting children. I think the best thing is to provide better sex education: tell kids that the kind of sex depicted by porn is not what most people do and trying to emulate it will only spread STDs.

Anyway back on topic. The problem with sites such as wikileaks is that there's no check on whether the information is true or not and the same for any other blog. Again education is the key: encourage people to think critically about the Internet and any other media for that matter.
 

Uncle Vernon

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2010, 09:32:23 pm »
The problem with sites such as wikileaks is that there's no check on whether the information is true or not and the same for any other blog.

Whats to say the information/propaganda fed to us by politicians, established media, discount department salesman, radio shock jocks, bank managers and financial advisers is any more or less true than wikileaks?

The only way you can ever find truth is to evaluate as many sources, angles and opinions as possible and draw a balanced evaluation from the sum of them.

Most of those trying to silence wikileaks are also those asking to be trusted implicitly, history has told us politics will likely over-ride the truth on many occasions. If wikileaks is as inaccurate and superficial as claimed by it's detractors, why on earth would they be concerned about it's existence if accuracy was the only concern?

 

Offline W4GNS

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2010, 01:36:11 am »
  It would be great if allot more people were pleased and did not move here


I'm so pleased I don't live in ameraica  and never will even if paid to !
« Last Edit: December 21, 2010, 01:40:03 am by W4GNS »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #30 on: December 21, 2010, 04:10:40 am »
Anyway back on topic. The problem with sites such as wikileaks is that there's no check on whether the information is true or not and the same for any other blog.

Not true in the case of Wkileaks:
http://wikileaks.ch/About.html
Wikileaks do extensive checks to verify if the information they are given is genuine.
AFAIK Wikileaks have never released information that has turned out not to be genuine.

Dave.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #31 on: December 21, 2010, 04:14:20 am »
Not just our friends in the YooEssOfAy a lot of other governments and media organisations are looking less than rosy on this one.  Australia's Prime Minister and Accident Prone Communications minister coming immediately to mind.

That's being a bit harsh on Stephen Conroy.
He's not accident prone, everything he does and says is deliberately stupid!

Dave.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #32 on: December 21, 2010, 07:45:56 am »
 It would be great if allot more people were pleased and did not move here


I'm so pleased I don't live in ameraica  and never will even if paid to !

Well you've got "one" on side  ;)
 

Offline quantumfall

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2010, 12:20:44 am »
The reason the governments are scared of Wikileaks is because it changes the entire status quo when it comes to so called "free journalism".
It changes the game and gives the power back to the people to potentially expose the government or other big corporations, and that scares the shit out of them. That is why the governments will do anything they can to shut it down, and set precedence so they can shut down similar leak and free speech journalism internet sites that will inevitably spring up. They also want to set an example to whistleblowers so they will think twice about speaking out against something that is wrong.

Those who say they don't like Wikileaks because of what it is publishing are missing the point entirely.
It has nothing to do with what they have published.
It's a principle thing about free speech and the right to publish in general, and the journalistic right to protect their source.
It's about giving whistle blowers an avenue to speak out without fear of identification or persecution.
It's about using the Internet for it's destined role of freedom of information for everyone.

The crazy American politicians in their blind and brainwashed psychotic rage under the disguise of patriotism calling for his execution or incarceration are ultimately trying to shut down the very best mechanism that will give the Amercian (and all) people the ultimate freedom they claim they have and aspire too. They fail to realise the same mechanism they are trying to silence is the one that could prevent the next terrorist attack or horrific war.

This is why everyone should put aside their opinions and get behind Julian and Wikileaks, whether or not you like him or the stuff he has published.
It's a new world order in journalism, free speech, and the citizenry standing up and saying with a strong voice that THEY are in control.
Julian is the pioneering hero of the new information revolution, and he MUST be supported by every citizen of every country for the benefit of all of our future freedoms.

Dave.

"It's a principle thing about free speech and the right to publish in general"

Yes we are free to repeat what has been shown to us in a free world as press, I wish Ha ha. If its illegal it must be reported, why is Hilary C not being investigated for crimes aginst the UN people ?

The trouble is you must not question your masters... the new "Political Class"and I'm not exaggerating about there existence.  In the UK we have a massive public pay purse, and no fund to pay for it.

pensions wages etc, but immediate tax, they just keep jacking up local and national taxes  to pay for pension payments (Linked to cost). Its obsine for my mother who is basically poor to pay a pension for a fat cat politician at her local council office.  The point is that we are diludeing ourselvse that money has any meaning but at as a print it shamocracy. if Shamocracy is a word, if  not I claim it as mine :)
 

Offline quantumfall

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #34 on: December 22, 2010, 12:43:17 am »
The last post was a bit ranty, But I hope you got the gist of it.  We are in deep need of a change, I fear change as much.. God I I wish I could feel good about something...

PS I'm having a very bad time personally and feel very bad any way, not that that matters in context.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2010, 12:48:19 am by quantumfall »
 

Offline Simon

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2010, 05:58:45 pm »
I second all of above, (rant and having a hard personal time  ;D)
 

Offline Slobodan

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #36 on: December 24, 2010, 02:03:53 pm »
The aim of the affair "Wikileaks" is Internet Censorship.
 

Offline GeoffS

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #37 on: December 25, 2010, 01:08:08 am »
The aim of the affair "Wikileaks" is Internet Censorship.

No, it's about accountability in government and business. The current 'Cablegate' is about government accountability, I believe the banks will get their turn soon.  :)
 

Offline Sionyn

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #38 on: December 25, 2010, 01:35:45 am »
in fact you might say this is all related to the banks wait and see guys ;)

ive heard dave mention conspiracy theories before so i recommend this book,
a book called

confessions of an economic hitman can recommend it its a good read

he seems legit being a ex fbi guy

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=808526880666247652#

also this the money masters old doc i heard adam curry talk about pretty good too
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936#
eecs guy
 

Offline GeoffS

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #39 on: December 25, 2010, 03:12:15 am »
 

Offline Simon

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #40 on: December 25, 2010, 09:09:22 am »



he seems legit being a ex fbi guy


Seconded, people will write any dribble to make money, just look at all the piss taking electronics books out there (the the AOE not far behind). Here in the UK to get something to write about journalists are trying to break up the government
 

Offline Sionyn

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #41 on: December 25, 2010, 11:39:18 am »
yep glad you got the joke ;)

eecs guy
 

Offline Simon

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #42 on: December 26, 2010, 01:49:22 pm »
hm, that was a joke ?  :o man you should not joke about such serious matters  ;D ;)
 

Offline Slobodan

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Re: wikileaks julian is a hero
« Reply #43 on: December 27, 2010, 09:57:19 am »
Sooner or later you will all find out that Julian Assange is an CIA agent for psychological operations.
 


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