Wikipedia website new design

[MrMobodies]

Just came across this article at first of a Wikipedia website design

https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/23/21453300/wikipedia-desktop-redesign-2021

Wikipedia is getting its first desktop redesign in 10 years
The entire redesign should be complete by the end of 2021

By Taylor Lyles@TayNixster  Sep 23, 2020, 8:28pm EDT

Wikipedia has been an integral part of web culture for nearly twenty years, letting users browse its millions of text-heavy, crowd-sourced encyclopedia entries from their computer, tablet, or phone. Now, the overall look of Wikipedia on desktop is getting a makeover for the first time in a decade to make the site more approachable for new users.

You can browse all the proposed new features in this MediaWiki post,     https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Reading/Web/Desktop_Improvements#What_features_will_be_added    and there are some animated GIFs to show you what they might look like. Personally, I really like how the new table of contents feature looks. I tend to curiously read Wiki pages of public figures and this could make it a lot easier to skip past certain sections of a page without having to scroll down on my computer.

Wikimedia Foundation, the site’s parent company, announced in a blog post that the changes will happen “incrementally over a long period of time,” allowing users to test the new features before they officially roll out, but that it plans to redesign the entire look of the desktop version of Wikipedia by the end of 2021. It didn’t say whether the mobile version would receive the same redesign.

I prefer it the way it is at the moment, I read the contents, lots of detail, less scrlling , I can see everything, no excessive animations of things in the way that may annoy me.

The only proposal I like is that sliding left bar which doesn't bother me whether it hides or not as it doesn't get in the way of the contents. Also they are saying they are making it easy, but it don't find it difficult it looks pretty simple.

I would find it difficult to concentrate if there are things stuck over the contents that I may not need or want to see at all, the empty white spaces where I would have scroll more and the animations like the one that appears over the search in the preview which also reminds of something similar to what happened in one of the recent Firefox releases in URL bar that I had to edit to Userchrome.css to stop it.

Also as in the picture I woudn't want to be constantly reminded in large letters what I am reading like that sticky element "Toni Morrison".  Maybe in small letters where I'd have to look to seek but I am unlikely to forget what I am actually reading but if it can slid in and out, by a little fixed symbol on the side when needed that would be a lot better for my concentration.

It looks like they have options on legacy skins and layout where the skin can be altered which is nice:
https://www.digitalinformationworld.com/2020/11/wikipedia-lets-users-try-out-new.html



What do you think of the proposed redesign?

Edit: attachment parameters not working.

[james_s]

I hate it when websites get redesigned. Unless the existing design is complete crap I wish everyone would just leave things alone. Even when the original is complete crap, the redesign is usually even crappier. Some people love change just for the sake of change, they have an addiction to everything being "fresh", can't stand that personally, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

[AntiProtonBoy]

It looks fine.

You wanna see redesign abomination? Compare the new Reddit with the old.

[floobydust]

Wikipedia no longer loads on an old iPad, it rejects the security:
"could not establish a secure connection to the server", so this is progress- as the iPad goes in landfill because a crapola Safari/ios update would also kill it.

[MrMobodies]

It looks fine.

You wanna see redesign abomination? Compare the new Reddit with the old.

I always rename to "old.reddit.com as I want to see everything in the thread and not just an answer underneath and then a whole bunch of other threads.

When I signed to Wikipedia up I see these animations. I am not sure if they are recent or part of the old skin but I hid them:

Code: [Select]

wikipedia.org##.oo-ui-pendingElement-pending
commons.wikimedia.org##.oo-ui-pendingElement-pending
##.oo-ui-pendingElement-pending
commons.wikimedia.org##.mw-echo-special-nojs
##.mw-echo-special-nojs
I like the old skin. To me the new skins I have seen seems to shrink the content space on the sides and the others with the fixed search toolbar at the top is a big nono, unless they put something there small at the top corner to show/hide it which will be handy down the page to appear only when I need it shown.

[SilverSolder]

Wikipedia no longer loads on an old iPad, it rejects the security:
"could not establish a secure connection to the server", so this is progress- as the iPad goes in landfill because a crapola Safari/ios update would also kill it.

This is a result of the obsession with security - now, every site is signed, and certificates on older devices suffer from "planned obsolescence" as a result.

A workaround might be to install a modern browser on the old device?

[SilverSolder]

[...] To me the new skins I have seen seems to shrink the content space on the sides and the others with the fixed search toolbar at the top is a big nono [...]

You can be sure that any modern web design will allow only one pixel on a 4K monitor to be a color other than white...

And the only way to scroll will be to master a masonic handshake with the mouse!

[james_s]

[...] To me the new skins I have seen seems to shrink the content space on the sides and the others with the fixed search toolbar at the top is a big nono [...]

You can be sure that any modern web design will allow only one pixel on a 4K monitor to be a color other than white...

And the only way to scroll will be to master a masonic handshake with the mouse!

I absolutely loathe acres of useless white space. Every time display resolutions increase, these idiots decide to spread everything out a little more. I should be able to comfortably tile at least four applications on a decent size 4k monitor with room to spare but the way everything just scales up combined with all the wasted space makes it pointless to even get a high res monitor. Already I struggle to fit as much on my 1080p display as I used to fit on just 1024x768.

[tooki]

Wikipedia no longer loads on an old iPad, it rejects the security:
"could not establish a secure connection to the server", so this is progress- as the iPad goes in landfill because a crapola Safari/ios update would also kill it.

That has nothing to do with redesigns. That’s a purely web server thing, based on the very sound decision of the web world moving to all-encrypted traffic, and disabling old encryption algorithms that have been compromised.

[james_s]

What does it matter if wikipedia is encrypted? I'm all for secure encryption where it matters, but this seems to be one of those cases where it doesn't really and all the encryption adds is headaches.

[I wanted a rude username]

Wikipedia is encrypted to prevent censorship.

Previously, certain governments were censoring articles they didn't like. They can't do that now. They can only leave it be, or block the entire site for a given language (or MITM, but that would be obvious). Most therefore choose to not censor it.

Moreover, all sites should be encrypted. And with Let's Encrypt, this is now easy.

[SilverSolder]

Wikipedia is encrypted to prevent censorship.

Previously, certain governments were censoring articles they didn't like. They can't do that now. They can only leave it be, or block the entire site for a given language (or MITM, but that would be obvious). Most therefore choose to not censor it.

Moreover, all sites should be encrypted. And with Let's Encrypt, this is now easy.

I don't understand what kind of encryption we are talking about here - is it anything more than using HTTPS?

[james_s]

So provide the ability for an encrypted connection and an open connection, this way devices that do not support the latest encryption can fall back to unencrypted. I don't like it when encryption is mandated, unless it's something involving credentials or personal data.

[tom66]

I don't understand what kind of encryption we are talking about here - is it anything more than using HTTPS?

This is just HTTPS, but when implemented competently, it's extremely hard to break.

[tom66]

So provide the ability for an encrypted connection and an open connection, this way devices that do not support the latest encryption can fall back to unencrypted. I don't like it when encryption is mandated, unless it's something involving credentials or personal data.

The problem with doing this is that governments/bad guys would block the HTTPS connection and devices would fall back to HTTP.  So you cannot give them the option.

You should be able to install a third-party web-browser on your iPad that contains newer certificates to resolve this issue.

[james_s]

The problem with doing this is that governments/bad guys would block the HTTPS connection and devices would fall back to HTTP.  So you cannot give them the option.

You should be able to install a third-party web-browser on your iPad that contains newer certificates to resolve this issue.

What's stopping them from doing this already? An oppressive government could even host their own internal wikipedia, containing carefully curated and censored content from the genuine site and inhabitants would be none the wiser. Or they could just block wikipedia entirely.

[I wanted a rude username]

What's stopping them from doing this already?

TLS. They can't MITM a site without every user's browser screaming bloody murder, as sometimes seen in corporate firewalls.

An authoritarian government's only option is to pretend to be civilised and allow the site, or pretend to be in control and block it.

[james_s]

Why do they need to pretend anything? If the site is in any way controversial just block it, that's what authoritarian governments do. I don't feel that it is my problem to try to deal with governments in other countries or worry about how they treat their citizens, that is the business of the citizens of that country, not mine.

[tooki]

Why do they need to pretend anything? If the site is in any way controversial just block it, that's what authoritarian governments do. I don't feel that it is my problem to try to deal with governments in other countries or worry about how they treat their citizens, that is the business of the citizens of that country, not mine.

Methinks you don’t understand the motivations of the people behind Wikipedia in the slightest.

[Mr. Scram]

Why do they need to pretend anything? If the site is in any way controversial just block it, that's what authoritarian governments do. I don't feel that it is my problem to try to deal with governments in other countries or worry about how they treat their citizens, that is the business of the citizens of that country, not mine.

You asked why and have been given a reason why. Besides, it's not as if US citizens have nothing to fear from their own government. The move to encrypted connections between server and client has in no small part been a response to Snowden's revelations. Thank your government for the situation.

Besides, websites being unavailable on ancient devices is a non issue. Technology marches on. Move along or stay behind.

[radar_macgyver]

And with Let's Encrypt, this is now easy.

Well any site using Let's Encrypt is going to stop working with older devices after September 2021, when they will no longer be cross-signed by IdenTrust. This includes Android < 7.1.1, and perhaps older iOS devices too. This is because none of them include Let's Encrypt in their root store, and instead rely on the IdenTrust cross-sign. One way out is to install Firefox, which has its own root store and doesn't rely on the OS root store. I wonder if @floobydust could use this option on his older iPad.

[james_s]

Methinks you don’t understand the motivations of the people behind Wikipedia in the slightest.

Frankly I don't give a shit about the motivations of the people behind Wikipedia, not even the slightest bit. It's a useful way to quickly find information on any number of topics though, some of it better quality than others and some interesting reading.

[james_s]

You asked why and have been given a reason why. Besides, it's not as if US citizens have nothing to fear from their own government. The move to encrypted connections between server and client has in no small part been a response to Snowden's revelations. Thank your government for the situation.

Besides, websites being unavailable on ancient devices is a non issue. Technology marches on. Move along or stay behind.

I absolutely understand the reasons behind having encryption on the internet, what I don't understand is why anyone would care about wikipedia traffic. If somebody wants to intercept what I'm reading about on wikipedia they can go right ahead, if we're talking about my email or banking that's another matter.

I'll move along when I wish to, on my terms, fuck any smug fart sniffing asshole who tries to force me. I've got some state of the art technology and I've got other stuff with vacuum tubes that I still use. I've been around long enough to see that newer isn't always better. If I could go back to the circa 2005 internet I'd do so in a heartbeat. No social media, none of these websites that won't even load without tens of megabytes of javascript and useless cruft. They worked better, they had higher information density and less bloat, it was a superior experience.

[Mr. Scram]

I absolutely understand the reasons behind having encryption on the internet, what I don't understand is why anyone would care about wikipedia traffic. If somebody wants to intercept what I'm reading about on wikipedia they can go right ahead, if we're talking about my email or banking that's another matter.

I'll move along when I wish to, on my terms, fuck any smug fart sniffing asshole who tries to force me. I've got some state of the art technology and I've got other stuff with vacuum tubes that I still use. I've been around long enough to see that newer isn't always better. If I could go back to the circa 2005 internet I'd do so in a heartbeat. No social media, none of these websites that won't even load without tens of megabytes of javascript and useless cruft. They worked better, they had higher information density and less bloat, it was a superior experience.

You don't see the point, others do. They'll move along as they please and the options are to partake and benefit from their free service or piss off. The world isn't going to cater to a belligerent old sod with an antiquated iPad. You're not entitled to free services.

[tooki]

Methinks you don’t understand the motivations of the people behind Wikipedia in the slightest.

Frankly I don't give a shit about the motivations of the people behind Wikipedia, not even the slightest bit. It's a useful way to quickly find information on any number of topics though, some of it better quality than others and some interesting reading.

If you don't care to know the reason, then don't go questioning why they've switched to encrypted connections.

"Y dey so stoopid?" — [answer] — "LALALALA I DON'T WANNA HEAR IT!"