Author Topic: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?  (Read 15709 times)

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Offline amyk

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2016, 02:38:37 pm »
want to eliminate as much of the analog hole as they can.
That's why they put analog audio pins in the connector?
For now. This is just a gradual transition, so people don't get too aware of what's happening.
 

Offline German_EE

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2016, 04:21:02 pm »
I know a great way to make a low profile 3.5mm connector:

1) Cut a slot in the edge of the PCB 3.5mm wide

2) Attach springs above and below the slot that make contact with the three sections of a 3.5mm connector when it is inserted into the slot

3) Attach some sort of cup assembly to the bottom of the slot that accepts the connector tip and stops it moving around when the plug is inserted.

You end up with a socket about 4mm thick, nobody is going to make a phone thinner than that because of the display and the battery.
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Offline JPortici

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2016, 04:25:25 pm »
I think there is some movement to make USB type C connector carry plain analog audio. I've seen some draft of the standard where pins are reserved for headphone connection.

This is actually not the worst solution. I rather like USB type C.
This.
Also Thunderbold 3 will run on USB C ports.
If the plan is to use the SIDE BAND pair to send analog audio then it's a matter of a simple adapter (now)
or one just have to put a transceiver and a dac into an adapter. big deal. I'll probably sound like a fanboy but it would not be the first time that apple appears to be ahead of its time in both introducing and discarding features/standards/etc
 

Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2016, 05:15:06 pm »
The real reason for this hasn't been mentioned yet: DRM. The big media corps and those in bed with them want to eliminate as much of the analog hole as they can.
No worthy pirate even uses the inherently lossy analog hole nowadays, especially with audio. Some HDMI splitters strip HDCP even though they make no mention of doing so. HDMI audio extractors give a nice unencrypted S/PDIF output since they would be quite useless otherwise.

Regardless, all DRM has done is give pirated media an advantage over legitimate media. If everyone just boycotted DRM (as in only downloading/buying legal DRM free media, not pirating), the problem would solve itself.
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Online linux-works

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2016, 06:37:43 pm »
look, come over here and argue with the burned out mosfets that I have in a bag, from my last headphone amp (class-A discrete) repair.

my reality does not match your theory, my friend...

;)


I guess I'm alone in having bad luck with 3.5mm jacks ... I've always found them extremely unreliable.


they suck!

they short as you insert and remove.  for some audio amps (really high end ones) they don't have protection circuits in them and - yes if you can believe it - simply inserting and removing the TRS jack (1/4" but same happens on 1/8") while music is playing causes the final mosfets to blow and/or the bias resistors.  I don't like that, but its how things are and I'm just reporting it (dont shoot the messenger).


Eh?  How inserting a TRS plug cannot short out the socket, there's too much clearance between the contacts in the socket.  It CAN short out the PLUG - an issue with guitar amps and PA amps that use 1/4" TS jacks for the speakers.  Amp on, speaker lead gets plugged into amp, no problem, lead then gets plugged into speaker = brief short.

as you insert or remove, the larger ground area  shorts gnd and the middle contact.



But the "ground area" (or sleeve, the S in TRS) cannot ever protrude far enough into the socket to reach the middle (the ring - R) contact!  As I said, the plugs can be shorted out (hence why using them for power or speaker leads is bad), but the sockets cannot!  Your headphones will be briefly shorted when plugging or unplugging, but the amp will not.
 

Offline Kilrah

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2016, 08:48:03 pm »
or one just have to put a transceiver and a dac into an adapter. big deal.
That. To me using USB-C lines for audio would be a pure waste of good digital signals... just shove a USB DAC in the plug so everything plays nice and you don't lose hub compatibility etc.
 

Offline Someone

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2016, 01:37:32 am »
Apple tried to kill USB with FireWire back in the day but Windows and others had better universal support do Apple had to succumb to it.
How did they try to kill USB? You may not remember but at the time firewire held a huge speed and latency advantage over USB and Apple used the two standards together on their product line:
http://www.everymac.com/systems/by_capability/macs-with-usb-firewire.html
In fact they always had the same number or more USB ports than firewire ports. Apple pushed rapid USB adoption by simultaneously dropping all other legacy ports so there was a surge in demand for USB peripherals, few consumers needed the bandwidth of firewire so it remained a niche interface for AV applications. With time USB increased in speed, and we now have thunderbolt as the high end complement.
 

Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2016, 05:15:30 am »
Apple tried to kill USB with FireWire back in the day but Windows and others had better universal support do Apple had to succumb to it.
How did they try to kill USB? You may not remember but at the time firewire held a huge speed and latency advantage over USB and Apple used the two standards together on their product line:
http://www.everymac.com/systems/by_capability/macs-with-usb-firewire.html
In fact they always had the same number or more USB ports than firewire ports. Apple pushed rapid USB adoption by simultaneously dropping all other legacy ports so there was a surge in demand for USB peripherals, few consumers needed the bandwidth of firewire so it remained a niche interface for AV applications. With time USB increased in speed, and we now have thunderbolt as the high end complement.
My favorite use of 1394 back in the days was fast networking when Gigabit cards and switches were too expensive. Granted, it wouldn't reach anywhere as far as Ethernet, but it worked nicely for networking a few PCs in one room.

A big fail of Thunderbolt is that there are no universal upgrade cards to add some ports to an existing PC. Who would actually buy a new motherboard just to use Thunderbolt? Contrast that to USB 3.1 where it's less than $30 for a PCIe card with a type C port and a type A port.
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Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2016, 06:07:20 am »
That. To me using USB-C lines for audio would be a pure waste of good digital signals... just shove a USB DAC in the plug so everything plays nice and you don't lose hub compatibility etc.
But that completely ignores the vast majority use case. Plugging in a pair of passive earbuds (or headphones) and listening out in the field, away from extra active outboard gear.
 

Offline Kilrah

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2016, 08:09:36 am »
But in this hypothetical scenario of not having a 3.5mm port anymore and using USB-C to carry audio you'd already need either an adapter to use 3.5mm headphones, or have to use different headpones that have an USB-C plug instead of the 3.5mm one - in both cases either the adapter or headphones could house the DAC. Whether they're active or passive doesn't change a thing from a user point of view.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2016, 08:15:04 am by Kilrah »
 

Offline fubar.gr

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2016, 02:56:35 pm »
I am reviving this old thread, since the new iphone is out, sans the 3.5mm audio socket.

A 3.5mm to lightning adapter is included in the package for those who want to use their "legacy" headphones.

The fanboys defend Apple for their decision, saying it was about time to get rid of 1950s technology, and that the future is wireless.

Am I the only one who thinks this is stupid on so many levels?

Offline RGB255_0_0

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2016, 03:04:44 pm »
Am I the only one who thinks this is stupid on so many levels?
Nope. Apple have been pushing to sell add-ons since the 2015 MacBook with its single USB-C. Wireless headphones are another item to charge. Lightning and USB-C headphones are inherently more expensive because of the additional electronics; although, on the flip side to that, they can have better audio reproduction than the ones found in the host.

It wouldn't have been so bad if they put moved to USB-C and had two connectors so then the headphones would be usable on any USB-C device  :-//
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Offline magetoo

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #37 on: September 15, 2016, 03:17:36 pm »
They seem obsessed with showing "leadership" and doing what other manufacturers "are afraid to do".

This can be a good thing, when you have a vision and want to move quickly towards it, but lately it just seems like setting arbitrary goals (like making things thinner, or having only one connector) and pursuing them for their own sake.
 

Offline Kilrah

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #38 on: September 15, 2016, 03:21:02 pm »
Given the (lack of) long-term reliability of the jack I can't say I'll miss it. Yes the future has been wireless for so long that the past already is. But if only someone made an actual high quality audio protocol to be used wirelessly...

I do believe it takes initiatives like that to move forward. What's the point in engineering new powerful interfaces if people just keep using the old stuff, at some point someone's got to make things move on.
The Macbook was made to set the tone that USB-C would have to be the next thing, which by causing several companies to invest in making USB-C accessories to initially cater for the high value market is what's going to make its widespread use possible on the next machines.
 

Offline AntiProtonBoy

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #39 on: September 15, 2016, 03:22:12 pm »
on the flip side to that, they can have better audio reproduction than the ones found in the host
In what way? (I haven't been following apple mobile products that much)
 

Offline RGB255_0_0

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #40 on: September 15, 2016, 03:32:01 pm »
on the flip side to that, they can have better audio reproduction than the ones found in the host
In what way? (I haven't been following apple mobile products that much)
The headphones can have their own DAC/Amp etc. Of course it could be worse than what was in prior devices.
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Offline Ampera

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #41 on: September 15, 2016, 03:38:02 pm »
I am reviving this old thread, since the new iphone is out, sans the 3.5mm audio socket.

A 3.5mm to lightning adapter is included in the package for those who want to use their "legacy" headphones.

The fanboys defend Apple for their decision, saying it was about time to get rid of 1950s technology, and that the future is wireless.

Am I the only one who thinks this is stupid on so many levels?

You see, Apple sells to a specific market. Idiots. This has been the case ever since the original Lisa came out. This isn't entirely derogatory, but it has become what Apple is. Let me explain.

The original Macs were designed with simplicity in mind, and they always were. The original advertising was a box you could plug into the wall, add a keyboard, mouse, and boom your done. This was a (Not really fair) comparison to PCs which had about the same setup difficulties, but were much more difficult to learn and operate than the Macs. Apple made a proper UI drawing inspiration from Xerox that made computers more friendly to your average Joe. This is why they were so popular in news groups and the more liberal of professions. People could spend more time working, instead of learning commands and how to fix common problems on your PC.

This was by no means a bad thing. It worked! It brought computers into offices everywhere and stapled Apple into the market. The point is that they have always targeted those not good with computers. Fast forward today, that has taken a new level. Apple can shove any wank words into the public's face and they will eat it up. Ooo you got the Apple A10, a very capable chip. Too bad there are no applications out there to take advantage of it, and even if there were, they would be developed for Android, where you don't have to deal with Apple's bullshit.

It doesn't matter to people. It's a flashy box that does magic. The only difference today is that you can harness the improved performance of a PC, without as steep of a learning curve. Apple doesn't make decent products, and they haven't since about the turn of the millennium when Microsoft (Not saying they are perfect either) removed any reason to not use a PC. They were as easy to set up as a Macintosh, they were more powerful (x86 CISC > PPC RISC)

TL;DR Apple has always made products for stupid people, it's just that they went from targeting those less skilled in computing to those less skilled in buying tech (A larger market now). The only sad part is that it is working, and your going to have a lot of uneducated shits storming down your door repeating the wank that apple shoves at them without knowing a damn thing about what they are talking about.

I honestly couldn't give a rat's aspirin because I use Android and Windows/Linux devices that don't wall you in like an animal while dangling down shiny candies to attempt to keep you entertained. Nobody has a reason to use Apple anymore. They do not have the better devices, they do not have the better operating systems, and they are feeding off the stupidity and misinformation of the market.

But whatever, gotta make a living somehow.  :bullshit: :bullshit: :bullshit:
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Offline JPortici

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #42 on: September 15, 2016, 03:53:50 pm »
back on topic...
what do you think is happening in the iphone7?
the adapter is just a "dumb" cable that connects two different plugs and the lightning connector is used to carry analog data on requests? (as usb c 3.1 could, in theory, with the sideband pins)
or is it an interesting piece of engineering like this one?
https://www.chipworks.com/about-chipworks/overview/blog/inside-apple-lightning-30-pin-adapter
 

Offline RGB255_0_0

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #43 on: September 15, 2016, 03:57:20 pm »
Isn't the iPhone released tomorrow? In such case ifixit will do a tear down within 20 mins of getting one and we'll soon find out.
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Offline JPortici

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #44 on: September 15, 2016, 04:04:37 pm »
is it? i had no idea (and i am genuinely interested to see the inside of the thingie in both cases)
 

Offline Augustus

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #45 on: September 15, 2016, 04:05:25 pm »
Greetings from the Black Forest, Germany
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #46 on: September 15, 2016, 04:09:19 pm »
Of course it is a good idea to add more wireless.  Have to get the noise floor up by any means available to force next gen signalling systems and obsolete old hardware.
 

Offline TheBay

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #47 on: September 15, 2016, 07:52:20 pm »
Of course it is a good idea to add more wireless.  Have to get the noise floor up by any means available to force next gen signalling systems and obsolete old hardware.

I feel sorry for my neighbors when they get all these fancy wireless headphones, let's hope they have decent RF filtering haha  :bullshit: :bullshit: as a fair bit of RF comes out of here  :-DD
« Last Edit: September 15, 2016, 07:55:29 pm by TheBay »
 

Offline Someone

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #48 on: September 16, 2016, 05:07:14 am »
You see, Apple sells to a specific market. Idiots. This has been the case ever since the original Lisa came out. This isn't entirely derogatory, but it has become what Apple is. Let me explain.
And they produce the products with huge economies of scale, so those of us who aren't idiots can buy the same product and make better use of them. Its a win win.
 

Offline jonovid

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #49 on: September 16, 2016, 05:29:30 am »
Quote
I feel sorry for my neighbors when they get all these fancy wireless headphones
  YES!  will drop its phone, jack :-DD seen the pics of these fancy white wireless earbuds that look like hearing aids,  So how many wireless Apple earbuds can you have in one room?  100?  250?
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 05:35:07 am by jonovid »
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