Author Topic: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?  (Read 15711 times)

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Offline TinkerFan

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Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« on: May 06, 2016, 08:01:23 pm »
I just came across this:
http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/brians-brain/4441968/Will-Apple-drop-the-3-5mm-headphone-jack-
 :palm: Why?? It is a nice, easy interface and also relatively cheap. If we've now get a custom Apple thing, I'm sure we have to pay at least 10$ extra for an adapter. I just don't see the benefit, please clear me up. The worst thing is that all the fanboys start to buy the stuff, just because it has an apple on it, no matter what happens to it.
I personally don't use Apple (for several other reasons), but there was always a way to interface with non-Apple devices (at least somehow). What is the next step? Drop the USB port on the MachBook?
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Offline XOIIO

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2016, 08:10:02 pm »
Yeah, it's ridiculous, and the apple fanboys are hardcore supporting it from what I can tell, the comments I've seen, and discussion I had on a Q&A site are freaking ridiculous, people talking about how "they are happy they are moving away from an outdated/non modern connector"

Offline GreyWoolfe

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2016, 08:13:53 pm »
"they are happy they are moving away from an outdated/non modern connector"

 :palm: |O :palm: |O  Seriously?  They need to step away from the Kool-Aide.
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Online Marco

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2016, 08:46:26 pm »
I guess I'm alone in having bad luck with 3.5mm jacks ... I've always found them extremely unreliable.

PS. never bought anything from Apple, likely never will. Hardware monopolies are dangerous (they have a defacto monopoly on profit in multiple markets).
« Last Edit: May 06, 2016, 08:49:19 pm by Marco »
 

Offline XOIIO

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2016, 08:55:22 pm »
"they are happy they are moving away from an outdated/non modern connector"

 :palm: |O :palm: |O  Seriously?  They need to step away from the Kool-Aide.

Yeah, it's freaking ridiculous, one guy then talked about how my complaint that you would need to buy a special adapter to use any old headphones, or other 3.5mm accessories, which let's face it, being apple will cost a lot, his response:

"An adapter would certainly be available. Awww, the adapter isn’t $3! Whaaaa!! I hate quality! Everything should cost two dollars fifty. Is it because adapters and connectors are small? Your fiancee’s ring is even smaller. How cheap should that be? When friends are riding in my car or listening to my HiFi, I just can’t wait to tell them how little I paid."

There shouldn't even need to be a bloody adapter in the first place.

I had the 3.5mm jack on my first ipod get broken, and I switched to bluetooth, that also meant that I didn't risk it being yanked around by my headphone cord, but I still had the damn option.

Offline Kilrah

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2016, 09:05:41 pm »
Only some stupid rumors to stir the pot and get people to talk about the brand. It's already going back to "oh no, actually it'll stay".
 

Offline RGB255_0_0

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2016, 09:52:55 pm »
Apple tried to kill USB with FireWire back in the day but Windows and others had better universal support do Apple had to succumb to it.

Headphone jacks are as reliable as the mechanical build quality though and do vary greatly between number of inserts. But we're talking technology that's decades old and with no reason to remove except to achieve a slimmer device.

Shows how out of touch all the tech companies are when they keep the same battery life but shave a few fractions of a millimetre from the thickness instead of adding an extra hour.
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Online ataradov

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2016, 09:53:19 pm »
I think there is some movement to make USB type C connector carry plain analog audio. I've seen some draft of the standard where pins are reserved for headphone connection.

This is actually not the worst solution. I rather like USB type C.
Alex
 

Offline TinkerFan

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2016, 10:05:20 pm »
Only some stupid rumors to stir the pot and get people to talk about the brand. It's already going back to "oh no, actually it'll stay".
That might be, because someone collected 250,000 signatures to say to apple 'we don't want this crap'. I've read it somewhere, but cannot remember where. It might have been in the article from the independent.
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Offline RGB255_0_0

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2016, 10:07:20 pm »
If Apple dropped Lightning for USB-C and there was a long enough transition period. Maybe.

But what about noise? How well it work when you also need to provide roughly 100 watts very close to the analogue signals?
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Online ataradov

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2016, 10:09:34 pm »
But what about noise? How well it work when you also need to provide roughly 100 watts very close to the analogue signals?
But you don't. When you plug in the "jack", there is no power provided.

I guess it will create a problem of simultaneous listening and charging.
Alex
 

Offline suicidaleggroll

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2016, 10:16:33 pm »
I guess it will create a problem of simultaneous listening and charging.

That's what bothers me about this huge all-in-one push.  What if you want to do more than one thing at a time?  I already don't like that the power/data in and power/data out are the same port (can't charge the phone while connecting any accessory to it), now they want to stick audio out in there too?  Screw that.
 

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2016, 10:20:17 pm »
I guess I'm alone in having bad luck with 3.5mm jacks ... I've always found them extremely unreliable.

PS. never bought anything from Apple, likely never will. Hardware monopolies are dangerous (they have a defacto monopoly on profit in multiple markets).

they suck!

they short as you insert and remove.  for some audio amps (really high end ones) they don't have protection circuits in them and - yes if you can believe it - simply inserting and removing the TRS jack (1/4" but same happens on 1/8") while music is playing causes the final mosfets to blow and/or the bias resistors.  I don't like that, but its how things are and I'm just reporting it (dont shoot the messenger).

crosstalk is also measurable with the trs connector.  I didn't believe it until I saw it first hand.

it spins and the contacts are usually not precise and so you get noise and bounces.

sometimes the tolerances are so bad, it breaks or jams.  yes, this is china we have to thank for that.

overall, I can't wait until we can get rid of this connector.  BUT - the simple fact is, all phones come with 1/8 or 1/4 trs and that's NOT going to change.  so, while the connector is a POS, we're pretty much stuck with it since its not sensible to rebuy expensive phones and if you have to adapt it, you just made things WORSE, not better.

I hate the trs jack.  but we can't just change it now.  installed base and all that.
 

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2016, 10:22:00 pm »
If Apple dropped Lightning for USB-C and there was a long enough transition period. Maybe.

But what about noise? How well it work when you also need to provide roughly 100 watts very close to the analogue signals?

I asked that on hack-a-day and the reply was: you will get ONLY audio OR power thru the cable, but not both.  if that's true, then good.  if its false, then they are idiots ;)
 

Online ataradov

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2016, 10:27:11 pm »
I asked that on hack-a-day and the reply was: you will get ONLY audio OR power thru the cable, but not both.  if that's true, then good.  if its false, then they are idiots ;)
In the diagram I've seen audio pins were combined with data pins and one of the criteria for them to be audio was absence of power. Although this may be just a "dumb mode". And if device is smart, it can negotiate to have both audio and power at the same time.

But this way, your headphones won't have to carry an IC in them. Although I'm sure Apple would love to have that.
Alex
 

Offline Delta

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2016, 10:39:16 pm »
I guess I'm alone in having bad luck with 3.5mm jacks ... I've always found them extremely unreliable.


they suck!

they short as you insert and remove.  for some audio amps (really high end ones) they don't have protection circuits in them and - yes if you can believe it - simply inserting and removing the TRS jack (1/4" but same happens on 1/8") while music is playing causes the final mosfets to blow and/or the bias resistors.  I don't like that, but its how things are and I'm just reporting it (dont shoot the messenger).


Eh?  How inserting a TRS plug cannot short out the socket, there's too much clearance between the contacts in the socket.  It CAN short out the PLUG - an issue with guitar amps and PA amps that use 1/4" TS jacks for the speakers.  Amp on, speaker lead gets plugged into amp, no problem, lead then gets plugged into speaker = brief short.
 

Offline RGB255_0_0

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2016, 10:45:25 pm »
If Apple dropped Lightning for USB-C and there was a long enough transition period. Maybe.

But what about noise? How well it work when you also need to provide roughly 100 watts very close to the analogue signals?

I asked that on hack-a-day and the reply was: you will get ONLY audio OR power thru the cable, but not both.  if that's true, then good.  if its false, then they are idiots ;)
This only really works for mains-powered devices or complications with multiple ports and then all the USB-C adapters like the one for the MacBook possibly being catastrophic.

USB is supposed to simplify connectivity. So far USB-C has been a ball-ache.
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Offline ez24

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2016, 10:53:41 pm »
I just don't see the benefit, please clear me up.

Apple sales are down, they need the money.  The benefit is for Apple.
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Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2016, 10:55:52 pm »
Quote
Audio Accessories? - USB Type-C connector can be used as an audio jack.

Windows 10 is capable of detecting a USB Type-C analog input as 3.5 mm audio jack, if the hardware supports the feature.

The USB Type-C specification connector allows a USB Type-C connector to be used similar to a 3.5" analog audio jack by using the audio accessory mode. Windows 10 supports systems that implement USB Type-C support for audio accessories by detecting the accessory as a regular 3.5" analog audio device.

To use this feature, your hardware or firmware must detect if audio accessory is connected and switch to that mode, as per the Audio Type-C specification. This is done by mapping the pins on the 3.5" analog audio connector to pins on the USB Type-C connector.

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/mt427381.aspx
 

Offline Stonent

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2016, 12:45:59 am »
Yeah, it's ridiculous, and the apple fanboys are hardcore supporting it from what I can tell, the comments I've seen, and discussion I had on a Q&A site are freaking ridiculous, people talking about how "they are happy they are moving away from an outdated/non modern connector"

Progress for the sake of progress.  Sounds like a government initiative.
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Online linux-works

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2016, 12:52:19 am »
I guess I'm alone in having bad luck with 3.5mm jacks ... I've always found them extremely unreliable.


they suck!

they short as you insert and remove.  for some audio amps (really high end ones) they don't have protection circuits in them and - yes if you can believe it - simply inserting and removing the TRS jack (1/4" but same happens on 1/8") while music is playing causes the final mosfets to blow and/or the bias resistors.  I don't like that, but its how things are and I'm just reporting it (dont shoot the messenger).


Eh?  How inserting a TRS plug cannot short out the socket, there's too much clearance between the contacts in the socket.  It CAN short out the PLUG - an issue with guitar amps and PA amps that use 1/4" TS jacks for the speakers.  Amp on, speaker lead gets plugged into amp, no problem, lead then gets plugged into speaker = brief short.

as you insert or remove, the larger ground area  shorts gnd and the middle contact.

again, I don't like the idea of unprotected full-current output on things like this, but they are very common on high end gear and its VERY common at audio shows to have someone's output blow up as a show attendee unplugs or hot plugs a 1/4 trs jack.  in some builds, they use xlrs or other non-shorting jacks for phones and they cut off the trs jack on the existing phones.  (often, they go further and go fully balanced, so its 4 wire phones instead of a common ground).

but anyway, trs jacks are shorting and dangerous for high current.  audio alchemy used to make dacs and preamps that used 1/8" trs jacks for power!  of all things.  they should have known better and most owners saw the *spark* that would happen if they didn't think first and pulled the power from the dac side instead of the wall side.
 

Offline Delta

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2016, 01:03:11 am »
I guess I'm alone in having bad luck with 3.5mm jacks ... I've always found them extremely unreliable.


they suck!

they short as you insert and remove.  for some audio amps (really high end ones) they don't have protection circuits in them and - yes if you can believe it - simply inserting and removing the TRS jack (1/4" but same happens on 1/8") while music is playing causes the final mosfets to blow and/or the bias resistors.  I don't like that, but its how things are and I'm just reporting it (dont shoot the messenger).


Eh?  How inserting a TRS plug cannot short out the socket, there's too much clearance between the contacts in the socket.  It CAN short out the PLUG - an issue with guitar amps and PA amps that use 1/4" TS jacks for the speakers.  Amp on, speaker lead gets plugged into amp, no problem, lead then gets plugged into speaker = brief short.

as you insert or remove, the larger ground area  shorts gnd and the middle contact.



But the "ground area" (or sleeve, the S in TRS) cannot ever protrude far enough into the socket to reach the middle (the ring - R) contact!  As I said, the plugs can be shorted out (hence why using them for power or speaker leads is bad), but the sockets cannot!  Your headphones will be briefly shorted when plugging or unplugging, but the amp will not.
 

Offline amyk

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2016, 02:51:48 am »
The real reason for this hasn't been mentioned yet: DRM. The big media corps and those in bed with them want to eliminate as much of the analog hole as they can.
 

Online ataradov

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2016, 02:58:02 am »
want to eliminate as much of the analog hole as they can.
That's why they put analog audio pins in the connector?
Alex
 

Offline ajb

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2016, 03:27:12 am »
Using the USB connector for audio is nothing new, the Motorola RAZR did that ages ago.  Pretty sure a few other manufacturers did as well, and since most phones used 2.5mm jacks at the time it wasn't a big deal to not be able to plug your 3.5mm headphones in without an adapter.

Personally I'm not itching for my phone to be so thin you can't fit a proper 3.5mm jack, but I doubt that the vast majority of people who buy the latest and greatest flagship phones are too attached to whatever crappy earbuds they have to be much bothered by having to get new ones along with their brand new $600 phones.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2016, 03:30:04 am by ajb »
 

Offline amyk

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2016, 02:38:37 pm »
want to eliminate as much of the analog hole as they can.
That's why they put analog audio pins in the connector?
For now. This is just a gradual transition, so people don't get too aware of what's happening.
 

Offline German_EE

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2016, 04:21:02 pm »
I know a great way to make a low profile 3.5mm connector:

1) Cut a slot in the edge of the PCB 3.5mm wide

2) Attach springs above and below the slot that make contact with the three sections of a 3.5mm connector when it is inserted into the slot

3) Attach some sort of cup assembly to the bottom of the slot that accepts the connector tip and stops it moving around when the plug is inserted.

You end up with a socket about 4mm thick, nobody is going to make a phone thinner than that because of the display and the battery.
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Offline JPortici

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2016, 04:25:25 pm »
I think there is some movement to make USB type C connector carry plain analog audio. I've seen some draft of the standard where pins are reserved for headphone connection.

This is actually not the worst solution. I rather like USB type C.
This.
Also Thunderbold 3 will run on USB C ports.
If the plan is to use the SIDE BAND pair to send analog audio then it's a matter of a simple adapter (now)
or one just have to put a transceiver and a dac into an adapter. big deal. I'll probably sound like a fanboy but it would not be the first time that apple appears to be ahead of its time in both introducing and discarding features/standards/etc
 

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2016, 05:15:06 pm »
The real reason for this hasn't been mentioned yet: DRM. The big media corps and those in bed with them want to eliminate as much of the analog hole as they can.
No worthy pirate even uses the inherently lossy analog hole nowadays, especially with audio. Some HDMI splitters strip HDCP even though they make no mention of doing so. HDMI audio extractors give a nice unencrypted S/PDIF output since they would be quite useless otherwise.

Regardless, all DRM has done is give pirated media an advantage over legitimate media. If everyone just boycotted DRM (as in only downloading/buying legal DRM free media, not pirating), the problem would solve itself.
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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2016, 06:37:43 pm »
look, come over here and argue with the burned out mosfets that I have in a bag, from my last headphone amp (class-A discrete) repair.

my reality does not match your theory, my friend...

;)


I guess I'm alone in having bad luck with 3.5mm jacks ... I've always found them extremely unreliable.


they suck!

they short as you insert and remove.  for some audio amps (really high end ones) they don't have protection circuits in them and - yes if you can believe it - simply inserting and removing the TRS jack (1/4" but same happens on 1/8") while music is playing causes the final mosfets to blow and/or the bias resistors.  I don't like that, but its how things are and I'm just reporting it (dont shoot the messenger).


Eh?  How inserting a TRS plug cannot short out the socket, there's too much clearance between the contacts in the socket.  It CAN short out the PLUG - an issue with guitar amps and PA amps that use 1/4" TS jacks for the speakers.  Amp on, speaker lead gets plugged into amp, no problem, lead then gets plugged into speaker = brief short.

as you insert or remove, the larger ground area  shorts gnd and the middle contact.



But the "ground area" (or sleeve, the S in TRS) cannot ever protrude far enough into the socket to reach the middle (the ring - R) contact!  As I said, the plugs can be shorted out (hence why using them for power or speaker leads is bad), but the sockets cannot!  Your headphones will be briefly shorted when plugging or unplugging, but the amp will not.
 

Offline Kilrah

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2016, 08:48:03 pm »
or one just have to put a transceiver and a dac into an adapter. big deal.
That. To me using USB-C lines for audio would be a pure waste of good digital signals... just shove a USB DAC in the plug so everything plays nice and you don't lose hub compatibility etc.
 

Offline Someone

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2016, 01:37:32 am »
Apple tried to kill USB with FireWire back in the day but Windows and others had better universal support do Apple had to succumb to it.
How did they try to kill USB? You may not remember but at the time firewire held a huge speed and latency advantage over USB and Apple used the two standards together on their product line:
http://www.everymac.com/systems/by_capability/macs-with-usb-firewire.html
In fact they always had the same number or more USB ports than firewire ports. Apple pushed rapid USB adoption by simultaneously dropping all other legacy ports so there was a surge in demand for USB peripherals, few consumers needed the bandwidth of firewire so it remained a niche interface for AV applications. With time USB increased in speed, and we now have thunderbolt as the high end complement.
 

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2016, 05:15:30 am »
Apple tried to kill USB with FireWire back in the day but Windows and others had better universal support do Apple had to succumb to it.
How did they try to kill USB? You may not remember but at the time firewire held a huge speed and latency advantage over USB and Apple used the two standards together on their product line:
http://www.everymac.com/systems/by_capability/macs-with-usb-firewire.html
In fact they always had the same number or more USB ports than firewire ports. Apple pushed rapid USB adoption by simultaneously dropping all other legacy ports so there was a surge in demand for USB peripherals, few consumers needed the bandwidth of firewire so it remained a niche interface for AV applications. With time USB increased in speed, and we now have thunderbolt as the high end complement.
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Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2016, 06:07:20 am »
That. To me using USB-C lines for audio would be a pure waste of good digital signals... just shove a USB DAC in the plug so everything plays nice and you don't lose hub compatibility etc.
But that completely ignores the vast majority use case. Plugging in a pair of passive earbuds (or headphones) and listening out in the field, away from extra active outboard gear.
 

Offline Kilrah

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2016, 08:09:36 am »
But in this hypothetical scenario of not having a 3.5mm port anymore and using USB-C to carry audio you'd already need either an adapter to use 3.5mm headphones, or have to use different headpones that have an USB-C plug instead of the 3.5mm one - in both cases either the adapter or headphones could house the DAC. Whether they're active or passive doesn't change a thing from a user point of view.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2016, 08:15:04 am by Kilrah »
 

Offline fubar.gr

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2016, 02:56:35 pm »
I am reviving this old thread, since the new iphone is out, sans the 3.5mm audio socket.

A 3.5mm to lightning adapter is included in the package for those who want to use their "legacy" headphones.

The fanboys defend Apple for their decision, saying it was about time to get rid of 1950s technology, and that the future is wireless.

Am I the only one who thinks this is stupid on so many levels?

Offline RGB255_0_0

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2016, 03:04:44 pm »
Am I the only one who thinks this is stupid on so many levels?
Nope. Apple have been pushing to sell add-ons since the 2015 MacBook with its single USB-C. Wireless headphones are another item to charge. Lightning and USB-C headphones are inherently more expensive because of the additional electronics; although, on the flip side to that, they can have better audio reproduction than the ones found in the host.

It wouldn't have been so bad if they put moved to USB-C and had two connectors so then the headphones would be usable on any USB-C device  :-//
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Offline magetoo

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #37 on: September 15, 2016, 03:17:36 pm »
They seem obsessed with showing "leadership" and doing what other manufacturers "are afraid to do".

This can be a good thing, when you have a vision and want to move quickly towards it, but lately it just seems like setting arbitrary goals (like making things thinner, or having only one connector) and pursuing them for their own sake.
 

Offline Kilrah

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #38 on: September 15, 2016, 03:21:02 pm »
Given the (lack of) long-term reliability of the jack I can't say I'll miss it. Yes the future has been wireless for so long that the past already is. But if only someone made an actual high quality audio protocol to be used wirelessly...

I do believe it takes initiatives like that to move forward. What's the point in engineering new powerful interfaces if people just keep using the old stuff, at some point someone's got to make things move on.
The Macbook was made to set the tone that USB-C would have to be the next thing, which by causing several companies to invest in making USB-C accessories to initially cater for the high value market is what's going to make its widespread use possible on the next machines.
 

Offline AntiProtonBoy

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #39 on: September 15, 2016, 03:22:12 pm »
on the flip side to that, they can have better audio reproduction than the ones found in the host
In what way? (I haven't been following apple mobile products that much)
 

Offline RGB255_0_0

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #40 on: September 15, 2016, 03:32:01 pm »
on the flip side to that, they can have better audio reproduction than the ones found in the host
In what way? (I haven't been following apple mobile products that much)
The headphones can have their own DAC/Amp etc. Of course it could be worse than what was in prior devices.
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Offline Ampera

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #41 on: September 15, 2016, 03:38:02 pm »
I am reviving this old thread, since the new iphone is out, sans the 3.5mm audio socket.

A 3.5mm to lightning adapter is included in the package for those who want to use their "legacy" headphones.

The fanboys defend Apple for their decision, saying it was about time to get rid of 1950s technology, and that the future is wireless.

Am I the only one who thinks this is stupid on so many levels?

You see, Apple sells to a specific market. Idiots. This has been the case ever since the original Lisa came out. This isn't entirely derogatory, but it has become what Apple is. Let me explain.

The original Macs were designed with simplicity in mind, and they always were. The original advertising was a box you could plug into the wall, add a keyboard, mouse, and boom your done. This was a (Not really fair) comparison to PCs which had about the same setup difficulties, but were much more difficult to learn and operate than the Macs. Apple made a proper UI drawing inspiration from Xerox that made computers more friendly to your average Joe. This is why they were so popular in news groups and the more liberal of professions. People could spend more time working, instead of learning commands and how to fix common problems on your PC.

This was by no means a bad thing. It worked! It brought computers into offices everywhere and stapled Apple into the market. The point is that they have always targeted those not good with computers. Fast forward today, that has taken a new level. Apple can shove any wank words into the public's face and they will eat it up. Ooo you got the Apple A10, a very capable chip. Too bad there are no applications out there to take advantage of it, and even if there were, they would be developed for Android, where you don't have to deal with Apple's bullshit.

It doesn't matter to people. It's a flashy box that does magic. The only difference today is that you can harness the improved performance of a PC, without as steep of a learning curve. Apple doesn't make decent products, and they haven't since about the turn of the millennium when Microsoft (Not saying they are perfect either) removed any reason to not use a PC. They were as easy to set up as a Macintosh, they were more powerful (x86 CISC > PPC RISC)

TL;DR Apple has always made products for stupid people, it's just that they went from targeting those less skilled in computing to those less skilled in buying tech (A larger market now). The only sad part is that it is working, and your going to have a lot of uneducated shits storming down your door repeating the wank that apple shoves at them without knowing a damn thing about what they are talking about.

I honestly couldn't give a rat's aspirin because I use Android and Windows/Linux devices that don't wall you in like an animal while dangling down shiny candies to attempt to keep you entertained. Nobody has a reason to use Apple anymore. They do not have the better devices, they do not have the better operating systems, and they are feeding off the stupidity and misinformation of the market.

But whatever, gotta make a living somehow.  :bullshit: :bullshit: :bullshit:
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Offline JPortici

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #42 on: September 15, 2016, 03:53:50 pm »
back on topic...
what do you think is happening in the iphone7?
the adapter is just a "dumb" cable that connects two different plugs and the lightning connector is used to carry analog data on requests? (as usb c 3.1 could, in theory, with the sideband pins)
or is it an interesting piece of engineering like this one?
https://www.chipworks.com/about-chipworks/overview/blog/inside-apple-lightning-30-pin-adapter
 

Offline RGB255_0_0

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #43 on: September 15, 2016, 03:57:20 pm »
Isn't the iPhone released tomorrow? In such case ifixit will do a tear down within 20 mins of getting one and we'll soon find out.
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Offline JPortici

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #44 on: September 15, 2016, 04:04:37 pm »
is it? i had no idea (and i am genuinely interested to see the inside of the thingie in both cases)
 

Offline Augustus

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #45 on: September 15, 2016, 04:05:25 pm »
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Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #46 on: September 15, 2016, 04:09:19 pm »
Of course it is a good idea to add more wireless.  Have to get the noise floor up by any means available to force next gen signalling systems and obsolete old hardware.
 

Offline TheBay

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #47 on: September 15, 2016, 07:52:20 pm »
Of course it is a good idea to add more wireless.  Have to get the noise floor up by any means available to force next gen signalling systems and obsolete old hardware.

I feel sorry for my neighbors when they get all these fancy wireless headphones, let's hope they have decent RF filtering haha  :bullshit: :bullshit: as a fair bit of RF comes out of here  :-DD
« Last Edit: September 15, 2016, 07:55:29 pm by TheBay »
 

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #48 on: September 16, 2016, 05:07:14 am »
You see, Apple sells to a specific market. Idiots. This has been the case ever since the original Lisa came out. This isn't entirely derogatory, but it has become what Apple is. Let me explain.
And they produce the products with huge economies of scale, so those of us who aren't idiots can buy the same product and make better use of them. Its a win win.
 

Offline jonovid

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #49 on: September 16, 2016, 05:29:30 am »
Quote
I feel sorry for my neighbors when they get all these fancy wireless headphones
  YES!  will drop its phone, jack :-DD seen the pics of these fancy white wireless earbuds that look like hearing aids,  So how many wireless Apple earbuds can you have in one room?  100?  250?
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 05:35:07 am by jonovid »
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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #50 on: September 16, 2016, 05:51:52 am »
back on topic...
what do you think is happening in the iphone7?
the adapter is just a "dumb" cable that connects two different plugs and the lightning connector is used to carry analog data on requests? (as usb c 3.1 could, in theory, with the sideband pins)
or is it an interesting piece of engineering like this one?
https://www.chipworks.com/about-chipworks/overview/blog/inside-apple-lightning-30-pin-adapter
The 30 pin adapter does have a DAC so most likely the Lightning standard does not support analog audio. If the standard is extended to add support, it would cause compatibility issues with older devices.

One problem with analog headphones is that they're single ended. That's significant for mobile since the headphone outputs must either be capacitor coupled or a DC/DC converter must be used to provide a negative rail. By integrating the DAC into the headphones, the transducers can be driven BTL in order to allow operation from a single rail without coupling capacitors. Maybe even have the DAC double as a class D amplifier and reduce power requirements. (Mostly indirectly by removing analog circuits, since even -10dBm into headphones is very loud.)
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Offline JPortici

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #51 on: September 16, 2016, 07:44:23 am »
on an interesting note, some guys, in some products, in order to save on the -very tiny- bom, they drive analog outputs with PWM and a series resistor only, relying on bus capacitance to smooth out the signal.
>99,9996% not what happening here but i had this fun thought for a nanosecond :)
 

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Offline JPortici

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #53 on: September 16, 2016, 08:22:56 am »
no heaphone adapter though.

but look at it. that is how small a computer can get, supposedly as powerful as a 2013 macbook retina (got a notification before, didn't bother to read though).
makes you think huh?
 

Offline NANDBlog

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #54 on: September 16, 2016, 08:44:35 am »
The 3.5mm jack had to go to make way to the replaceable battery and the standard USB jack. Which is mandatory in the EU, so you can use standard equipment to charge it, and manufacturers dont charge (pun intended) you extra money for their proprietary stuff.
I wonder why it did not come with embedded sim card, that way you can charge people in the apple store if they want to change their phone number. I actually am surprised that they were able to disassemble it at iFixit. This would mean that people can actually repair it. Though they will need a triagonal screwdriver (I'm sure there was a reason to use that). I'm almost sure the next one will be just welded shut. For waterproofing.
 

Offline RGB255_0_0

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #55 on: September 16, 2016, 09:08:01 am »
no heaphone adapter though.

but look at it. that is how small a computer can get, supposedly as powerful as a 2013 macbook retina (got a notification before, didn't bother to read though).
makes you think huh?
In progress. Ifixit tend to be very careful about taking stuff apart some it wouldn't surprise me if the adaptors require being very light without damaging anything inside.

I found it funny they x-rayed the haptic Taptic Engine. Wonder if Mike inspired them to do that...
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Offline JPortici

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #56 on: September 16, 2016, 10:25:03 am »
same :)
 

Offline Ampera

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #57 on: September 16, 2016, 12:26:38 pm »
The 3.5mm jack had to go to make way to the replaceable battery and the standard USB jack. Which is mandatory in the EU, so you can use standard equipment to charge it, and manufacturers dont charge (pun intended) you extra money for their proprietary stuff.
I wonder why it did not come with embedded sim card, that way you can charge people in the apple store if they want to change their phone number. I actually am surprised that they were able to disassemble it at iFixit. This would mean that people can actually repair it. Though they will need a triagonal screwdriver (I'm sure there was a reason to use that). I'm almost sure the next one will be just welded shut. For waterproofing.

Not in the US. I bet you the battery can't be replaced and no way in hell is Apple using USB Micro B or USB C over here.
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Online langwadt

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #58 on: September 16, 2016, 12:45:34 pm »
The 3.5mm jack had to go to make way to the replaceable battery and the standard USB jack. Which is mandatory in the EU, so you can use standard equipment to charge it, and manufacturers dont charge (pun intended) you extra money for their proprietary stuff.
I wonder why it did not come with embedded sim card, that way you can charge people in the apple store if they want to change their phone number. I actually am surprised that they were able to disassemble it at iFixit. This would mean that people can actually repair it. Though they will need a triagonal screwdriver (I'm sure there was a reason to use that). I'm almost sure the next one will be just welded shut. For waterproofing.

Not in the US. I bet you the battery can't be replaced and no way in hell is Apple using USB Micro B or USB C over here.

or in the EU, unless something changed recently it is not required that phone has USB connector for charging, just that you can plug in to a USB charger
 

Offline JPortici

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #59 on: September 16, 2016, 12:54:56 pm »
(the jack adapter is priced at 9$ on the apple store. an all time low for an accessory.. do they want to save the day with low margin or is it really two connectors and a cable?)
 

Offline macboy

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #60 on: September 16, 2016, 12:55:58 pm »
While they do include an adapter to use 3.5 mm headphones, they are pushing their new wireless headphones. Bluetooth. With lossy compression. Thanks, but no thanks.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 02:09:57 pm by macboy »
 

Offline zapta

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #61 on: September 16, 2016, 01:09:44 pm »
Is it technically difficult two have the two wireless ear buds playing at exactly same phase? I presume communication is digital with packets, buffering and such.
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Offline Ampera

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #62 on: September 16, 2016, 01:12:12 pm »
While they do include an adapter to use 3.5 mm headphones, they are pushing their new wireless headphones. Blueooth. With lossy compression. Thanks, but no thanks.

Apple's earphones have always been the worst. You pay hundreds for an amazing iPhone

and get two lumps of crap.
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Offline madires

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #63 on: September 16, 2016, 01:12:39 pm »
Of course, Apple drops the headphones jack. They own the larget manufacturer of Bluetooth headphones. And the wireless headphones got fixed batteries which wear out. Every few years the Apple user has to buy new expensive Bluetooth headphones. Apple has to keep the revenue up. Why do people ask such stupid questions?  >:D
 

Offline RGB255_0_0

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #64 on: September 16, 2016, 01:14:47 pm »
At the distance they should be from each other, you'd probably not notice a difference. The problem I had and why I stopped using the Jaybird Freedoms was that the Bluetooth dropped out momentarily with the motion of walking. And it's another device I had to remember to charge and no matter how long the batteries last it's never enough.
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Offline madires

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #65 on: September 16, 2016, 01:24:03 pm »
While they do include an adapter to use 3.5 mm headphones, they are pushing their new wireless headphones. Blueooth. With lossy compression. Thanks, but no thanks.

How large is the audio delay for Bluetooth headphones? This is something which could drive any musician crazy and would render any related app useless.
 

Offline RGB255_0_0

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #66 on: September 16, 2016, 02:03:50 pm »
While they do include an adapter to use 3.5 mm headphones, they are pushing their new wireless headphones. Blueooth. With lossy compression. Thanks, but no thanks.

How large is the audio delay for Bluetooth headphones? This is something which could drive any musician crazy and would render any related app useless.
It's enough that makes ADD users go mad because of lip sync. It annoys me majorly.
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Offline madires

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #67 on: September 16, 2016, 04:18:58 pm »
A computer magazine has done some measurements on the Lightning headphones adapter and found that it creates a loss of 4.5dB(A). Source (German): https://heise.de/-3325971
 

Offline TheBay

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #68 on: September 16, 2016, 04:23:50 pm »
A computer magazine has done some measurements on the Lightning headphones adapter and found that it creates a loss of 4.5dB(A). Source (German): https://heise.de/-3325971

Ha! Apple probably gimped it on purpose to sell their stupid headphones.

This whole thing is a load of nonsense, nothing wrong with a 3.5mm jack connector. Served us fine and is the de facto standard, pointless marketing nonsense and a cash cow for Crapple.
 

Offline Aodhan145

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #69 on: September 16, 2016, 04:45:25 pm »
While they do include an adapter to use 3.5 mm headphones, they are pushing their new wireless headphones. Blueooth. With lossy compression. Thanks, but no thanks.

Apple's earphones have always been the worst. You pay hundreds for an amazing iPhone

and get two lumps of crap.

I rather like the ear pods. They are comfortable and actually look good and dont stick way out of your ears like others.
 

Offline RGB255_0_0

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #70 on: September 16, 2016, 05:03:17 pm »
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Offline JPortici

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #71 on: September 16, 2016, 05:36:21 pm »
A computer magazine has done some measurements on the Lightning headphones adapter and found that it creates a loss of 4.5dB(A). Source (German): https://heise.de/-3325971

Ha! Apple probably gimped it on purpose to sell their stupid headphones.

This whole thing is a load of nonsense, nothing wrong with a 3.5mm jack connector. Served us fine and is the de facto standard, pointless marketing nonsense and a cash cow for Crapple.
i wore out or broke the mini jack on on various musical instruments..
i wore out the mini jack on at least three phones (which guess what, have had for more than one year. the mini jack is mechanically very weak compared to other standards... and how many times the mp3/phone slipped out of the pocket and dropped because the damn cable detached)
i don't care if it goes to the hell it deserves while i can use a better plug for the same thing.
 

Offline Ampera

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #72 on: September 16, 2016, 05:45:30 pm »
While they do include an adapter to use 3.5 mm headphones, they are pushing their new wireless headphones. Blueooth. With lossy compression. Thanks, but no thanks.

Apple's earphones have always been the worst. You pay hundreds for an amazing iPhone

and get two lumps of crap.

I rather like the ear pods. They are comfortable and actually look good and dont stick way out of your ears like others.

Ear buds are pretty shite. Either they fall out or require a hydraulic press to insert. I don't know I am doing it wrong, but my ears always push my inner ear buds out, and they are as far in as they can go.

I use large Logitech G930s Which have caused me to consider suicide over the crap they put me through. They sound EXCELLENT and the 7.1 Surround emulation works GREAT, and the wireless feature is nice. One problem. They constantly disconnect and reconnect with a *Cut out* *BEEEEP* *Cut in*. Some examples are worse than others. I have two (As they were gifts, not of my own idea) and the first one lost connection and gained connection every 5 seconds, charged or not. And when the replaceable battery died, I installed a replacement, and it flat out didn't work. The battery did not hold any life, and at that point I was gifted another headset (Of course gift someone another bad headset). Whatever, this one is better.

Rant over.  :rant:
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Offline TheBay

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #73 on: September 16, 2016, 05:58:10 pm »
A computer magazine has done some measurements on the Lightning headphones adapter and found that it creates a loss of 4.5dB(A). Source (German): https://heise.de/-3325971

Ha! Apple probably gimped it on purpose to sell their stupid headphones.

This whole thing is a load of nonsense, nothing wrong with a 3.5mm jack connector. Served us fine and is the de facto standard, pointless marketing nonsense and a cash cow for Crapple.
i wore out or broke the mini jack on on various musical instruments..
i wore out the mini jack on at least three phones (which guess what, have had for more than one year. the mini jack is mechanically very weak compared to other standards... and how many times the mp3/phone slipped out of the pocket and dropped because the damn cable detached)
i don't care if it goes to the hell it deserves while i can use a better plug for the same thing.

Might help if you were more careful with your devices, a plug isn't meant to support the weight of a device falling out of your pocket.
I can probably count on one hand the issues I've had with 3.5mm and TRRS, I've been using these in excess of 30 years.
Those times they were broken were due to my own fault, caught on a chair, vacuum cleaner or tripped over a wire. Just like any cable/connector would get damaged.

Mine and most of your examples will wear out any connector (within reason), my musical instruments use the large size jack which are pretty much indestructible 6.35mm

As for Micro USB, that's a pet hate of mine at the moment, hope USB C is more durable.
 

Offline zapta

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #74 on: September 16, 2016, 06:34:10 pm »
While they do include an adapter to use 3.5 mm headphones, they are pushing their new wireless headphones. Blueooth. With lossy compression. Thanks, but no thanks.

Apple's earphones have always been the worst. You pay hundreds for an amazing iPhone

and get two lumps of crap.

I rather like the ear pods. They are comfortable and actually look good and dont stick way out of your ears like others.
Having a 3.5mm connector didn't exclude wireless ear phones or water tightness.

It's a false dilemma.

Apple has a history of setting design trends. Will be interesting to see what will happen with this one. Personally I like the 3.5mm connector and earphones that don't require charging.
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Offline Ampera

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #75 on: September 16, 2016, 06:39:28 pm »
While they do include an adapter to use 3.5 mm headphones, they are pushing their new wireless headphones. Blueooth. With lossy compression. Thanks, but no thanks.

Apple's earphones have always been the worst. You pay hundreds for an amazing iPhone

and get two lumps of crap.

I rather like the ear pods. They are comfortable and actually look good and dont stick way out of your ears like others.
Having a 3.5mm connector didn't exclude wireless ear phones or water tightness.

It's a false dilemma.

Apple has a history of setting design trends. Will be interesting to see what will happen with this one. Personally I like the 3.5mm connector and earphones that don't require charging.

I agree. With the exception of Bluetooth for obvious reasons, 3.5mm should be the ONLY interface for headphone and/or headsets. There is no reason to use anything else. USB hogs ports and doesn't work well on phones, Proprietary RF is buggy and inherits flaws from USB, and 1/4 Inch is stupid, and I don't need to say why.
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Offline TheBay

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #76 on: September 17, 2016, 01:57:20 pm »
 

Offline Ampera

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #77 on: September 17, 2016, 02:06:23 pm »


The iPhone 8 will be that, with just a paper thin screen up top to stream stuff off. all the computing will be in that unit and it will stream information wirelessly to your phone. It vibrates on notification too.
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Offline TheBay

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #78 on: September 17, 2016, 03:36:13 pm »
Just had an interesting conversation with my Niece in the car.

Me - "Shiloh do you want to plug your iPhone in to my car to listen to music?",
Shiloh - "Yes please", she then plugs her iPhone 5S in to the Aux in socket on my BMW.
Shiloh - "I don't want the new iPhone", Me - "Why not?" Shiloh -"It doesn't have a headphone socket"
Me - "Yes, but it comes with an adapter in the box" Shiloh - "meh"

Interesting to hear that from a 10 year old, wonder if this opinion is similar of this demographic and are they going by their own opinions or what they heard?
 

Offline Ampera

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #79 on: September 17, 2016, 06:40:17 pm »
Just had an interesting conversation with my Niece in the car.

Me - "Shiloh do you want to plug your iPhone in to my car to listen to music?",
Shiloh - "Yes please", she then plugs her iPhone 5S in to the Aux in socket on my BMW.
Shiloh - "I don't want the new iPhone", Me - "Why not?" Shiloh -"It doesn't have a headphone socket"
Me - "Yes, but it comes with an adapter in the box" Shiloh - "meh"

Interesting to hear that from a 10 year old, wonder if this opinion is similar of this demographic and are they going by their own opinions or what they heard?

With cars it's not that bad. I would use bluetooth anyways, but it's just in general a useful port that has been removed for no real reason.
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Offline zapta

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #80 on: September 17, 2016, 08:45:04 pm »


Interesting to hear that from a 10 year old, wonder if this opinion is similar of this demographic and are they going by their own opinions or what they heard?

She is already too used to the old way. Next generation will be more open minded.

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Offline kripton2035

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #81 on: September 18, 2016, 12:32:19 pm »
you can still have a 3.5 jack, even on an iphone 7 !  :-DD

Offline RGB255_0_0

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #82 on: September 18, 2016, 12:41:19 pm »
Instructions not clear: got my dick stuck in a vice.
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Offline ez24

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #83 on: September 18, 2016, 11:08:58 pm »
you can still have a 3.5 jack, even on an iphone 7 !  :-DD

Since it is so easy to add a jack, I wonder what the big deal is?
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Offline Ampera

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Re: Will Apple drop the 3.5mm Jack?
« Reply #84 on: September 18, 2016, 11:11:44 pm »
you can still have a 3.5 jack, even on an iphone 7 !  :-DD

Since it is so easy to add a jack, I wonder what the big deal is?

Lol.
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