Author Topic: Will driverless cars lead to radar pollution/interference?  (Read 3242 times)

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Offline Merlysys

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Will driverless cars lead to radar pollution/interference?
« on: October 24, 2016, 02:48:19 am »
In a few years all those cars emitting high Ghz beams all over the place. Then each car's receiving circuit trying to make sense from (reflected signals) emitted by other cars...

I am trying to imagine what kind of chaos that will be!

 
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Offline AntiProtonBoy

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Re: Will driverless cars lead to radar pollution/interference?
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2016, 02:52:49 am »
Well, we already have WiFi and microwave ovens everywhere. Doesn't seem too chaotic.
 

Offline sam1275

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Re: Will driverless cars lead to radar pollution/interference?
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2016, 03:15:24 am »
Some router have a radar-detect mode :popcorn:
http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:Interface/Wireless
dfs-mode (no-radar-detect | none | radar-detec; Default: none)
Controls DFS (Dynamic Frequency Selection).
*none - disables DFS.
*no-radar-detect - Select channel from scan-list with the lowest number of detected networks. In 'wds-slave' mode this setting has no effect.
*radar-detect - Select channel with the lowest number of detected networks and use it if no radar is detected on it for 60 seconds. Otherwise, select different channel. This setting may be required by the country regulations.
This property has effect only in AP mode.
Note: Starting from RouterOS v6.37 dfs-mode setting is hardcoded to radar-detect and removed from the interface menu.
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: Will driverless cars lead to radar pollution/interference?
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2016, 03:16:54 am »
Microwaves in oven are confined by design - even if there is the potential for some leakage, it won't be significant (one would hope).

WiFi signals are more pervasive, but multiple channels and signal strength can alleviate a lot of issues, especially as many such sources are not moving.  Even with interference issues, the impact is poor operation which manifests as slow or non connection.

With moving sources transmitting a signal for their own use, there is not going to be much time for 'negotiation' and there is a time critical factor in resolving signal clashes that does not exist with microwaves or WiFi.

Poor operation will manifest as crashes, so I see the question as quite valid.
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: Will driverless cars lead to radar pollution/interference?
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2016, 03:19:49 am »
Some router have a radar-detect mode :popcorn:
http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Manual:Interface/Wireless
dfs-mode (no-radar-detect | none | radar-detec; Default: none)
Controls DFS (Dynamic Frequency Selection).
*none - disables DFS.
*no-radar-detect - Select channel from scan-list with the lowest number of detected networks. In 'wds-slave' mode this setting has no effect.
*radar-detect - Select channel with the lowest number of detected networks and use it if no radar is detected on it for 60 seconds. Otherwise, select different channel. This setting may be required by the country regulations.
This property has effect only in AP mode.
Note: Starting from RouterOS v6.37 dfs-mode setting is hardcoded to radar-detect and removed from the interface menu.


This might be quite functional for a static radar installation, for example at an airport - but how about the situation where a vehicle comes into range after channel selection is made?


Certainly, this begs questions that will require some serious thought on spectrum allocation.
 

Offline jonovid

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Re: Will driverless cars lead to radar pollution/interference?
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2016, 04:06:26 am »
Quote
In a few years all those cars emitting high Ghz beams all over the place. Then each car's receiving circuit trying to make sense from (reflected signals) emitted by other cars...

I am trying to imagine what kind of chaos that will be!
  its most likely Autonomous cars can detect surroundings using a variety of techniques But be limited to passive radar. by the law,  :popcorn: made to use an optics solution, over using radar or RF stopping chaos on the roads i think? maybe the suitcase size liquid cooled supercomputer using 100 to 1500 fish-eye capture cameras like compound eyes will save the autonomous car?  :-//
« Last Edit: October 24, 2016, 04:30:11 am by jonovid »
Hobbyist with a basic knowledge of electronics
 

Offline Dago

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Re: Will driverless cars lead to radar pollution/interference?
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2016, 04:26:24 am »
Vehicle radars are usually FMCW radars which are based on coherent reception of frequency sweeps making them very resistant to interference. One of the reasons why they are often used in military applications as well. To cause interference you'd basically have to synchronize to the sweeps somehow. I guess it is still possible to saturate the frontend but that is probably not a concern from other vehicle radars.
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Online nctnico

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Re: Will driverless cars lead to radar pollution/interference?
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2016, 06:02:28 am »
In a few years all those cars emitting high Ghz beams all over the place. Then each car's receiving circuit trying to make sense from (reflected signals) emitted by other cars...

I am trying to imagine what kind of chaos that will be!
There is a reason they are testing driverless cars that drive at barely greater than walking pace. The roads will be so congested they won't need to go any faster. They'll be glorified mobility scooters.
I don't care because I'll be sleeping in the back seat anyway.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline zapta

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Re: Will driverless cars lead to radar pollution/interference?
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2016, 06:21:11 am »


I don't care because I'll be sleeping in the back seat anyway.

Or watch ads to pay for the free ride.

Drain the swamp.
 

Offline mullecy

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Re: Will driverless cars lead to radar pollution/interference?
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2016, 02:42:05 pm »
Hi!
Mercedes cars with distronic plus and other safety features uses much higher frequencies than wifi:
https://www.itu.int/dms_pub/itu-r/oth/0A/06/R0A060000550001PDFE.pdf

So I doubt it could have a bad influence on wireless communications.

This option was initially in S-class only 10 years ago, but now it's available on all models (ex: my wife's B-class has it)
 

Offline LukeW

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Re: Will driverless cars lead to radar pollution/interference?
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2016, 03:29:48 pm »
Automotive radars are already in use, and they are not specifically associated with driverless cars.

The bands that they operate in are somewhere up around 20 GHz and 70 GHz.

ACMA is already assessing such technology, introducing appropriate regulatory structures, like provisions for automotive radars in the LIPD class licensing.

I assume that the same is true for other international agencies like FCC.

http://www.acma.gov.au/webwr/radcomm/frequency_planning/spps/0502spp.pdf

 

Offline sainbablo

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Re: Will driverless cars lead to radar pollution/interference?
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2016, 05:47:34 pm »
Would such car be useful on roads criss-crossed by donkey carts, camel carts, horse driven carriages and vagabond animals
and human component?
Please do reply as I am all set to buy one.Thx
 


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