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| Will our engineering resources become dominated by Chinese design? |
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| abeyer:
--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 16, 2023, 05:15:12 am --- --- Quote from: PapierzToaletowy on November 16, 2023, 04:59:18 am --- --- Quote from: magic on November 15, 2023, 10:56:05 am ---He's talking about Europe west of Odra - you know, half of the continent or thereabouts ;) --- End quote --- Ah, Right. I forgot about Oder–Neisse line which separates civilisation from barbarian states. --- End quote --- Which side though? :popcorn: --- End quote --- Everyone knows those dirty big-endians are the barbarians. |
| magic:
--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 15, 2023, 10:14:18 pm --- --- Quote from: coppice on November 15, 2023, 08:31:59 pm ---In the 80s, when work started moving from the EU and US to Asia in volume, we used to hear politicians say it was the low end simple work that was moving. This was true, but move on 30 years and all the highly skilled and experienced people are those people in Asia who got their start doing those simpler jobs when they were young. --- End quote --- Yes, just like when they now say the same thing with "AI". :popcorn: --- End quote --- Or used to say about slaves. Some things never change, some people just love trouble. |
| Smokey:
--- Quote from: coppice on November 15, 2023, 06:53:25 pm --- --- Quote from: dobsonr741 on November 15, 2023, 06:23:07 pm --- --- Quote ---I believe the ESP-IDF is perhaps the best SW framework --- End quote --- To set the admiration of the software stack: it’s open source. When I contributed to it a few good years ago it was in shambles and buggy. So give credit to open source, not China. --- End quote --- If a vendor has allowed an open source infrastructure to flourish around their products that is a reason for high praise. Most vendors end up derailing open source efforts, either through active suppression or endlessly changing their policies. --- End quote --- I'm sorry but outsourcing your core development tools to "the community" is lazy, not honorable. Same goes for "official community forum support". |
| SiliconWizard:
I'm not sure what the point of this thread exactly is in the end. China has been on an economic growth that we haven't experienced in decades, so obviously they have a major edge currently in terms of development and investments, while we are in a downwards spiral. Cycles. Does that mean that it's all rosy over there? I don't think so. It's a totalitarian regime, so of course that helps "focusing", but the price to pay for that is very high. Historically speaking, no totalitarian regime has ever lasted forever, so China's current regime won't either. Meanwhile they'll reap all they can while it lasts. And, we are on some level acting as though we were committing suicide in the western world. Maybe that's just part of the cycle too. While China (and others outside of the western world) invests pragmatically, we have cut down investments a lot on similar things, while focusing on investments that will "save the planet" (mostly dead-end projects), except maybe the arms industry. And then we whine. Kind of pathetic. As to China vs. open source, that's a pretty odd relationship actually. Open source could only have started in a world where IP was a core value, if you really think about it. This is not the case in China for the most part, and they do not care much about neither IP nor open source. They use open source as they see fit, while often reluctantly sharing back, if at all. When they do it properly, that's often the exception rather than the norm. |
| coppice:
--- Quote from: Smokey on November 16, 2023, 09:17:39 pm --- --- Quote from: coppice on November 15, 2023, 06:53:25 pm --- --- Quote from: dobsonr741 on November 15, 2023, 06:23:07 pm --- --- Quote ---I believe the ESP-IDF is perhaps the best SW framework --- End quote --- To set the admiration of the software stack: it’s open source. When I contributed to it a few good years ago it was in shambles and buggy. So give credit to open source, not China. --- End quote --- If a vendor has allowed an open source infrastructure to flourish around their products that is a reason for high praise. Most vendors end up derailing open source efforts, either through active suppression or endlessly changing their policies. --- End quote --- I'm sorry but outsourcing your core development tools to "the community" is lazy, not honorable. Same goes for "official community forum support". --- End quote --- I think engineers are plenty evenly split between the "vendors should do all the software' camp, and the "vendors are so hopeless they should facilitate us making the tools function well" camp. |
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