Will our engineering resources become dominated by Chinese design?

[Black Phoenix]

Have you tried working in Shenzhen?

I haven't (I'm mostly a software dev, only part-time HW dev), but I know several people who did, and all of them told me similar things to what I said above.

I've spend an enormous amount of time there. You sound like a lot of people who see a few YouTube videos about engineering in Shenzhen, and think its the answer to all the frustration they've ever felt trying to get things done.

Tell us then if anything I said is not true? I sense a lot of frustration in your post, but little in the way of facts.

Things are not as roisy as you paint them... I live in Shenzhen/Hong Kong since Feb 2019.

[asmi]

Things are not as roisy as you paint them... I live in Shenzhen/Hong Kong since Feb 2019.

Please tell us then how they really are. I'm going off what I was told by folks who live there too.

[coppice]

Have you tried working in Shenzhen?

I haven't (I'm mostly a software dev, only part-time HW dev), but I know several people who did, and all of them told me similar things to what I said above.

I've spend an enormous amount of time there. You sound like a lot of people who see a few YouTube videos about engineering in Shenzhen, and think its the answer to all the frustration they've ever felt trying to get things done.

Tell us then if anything I said is not true? I sense a lot of frustration in your post, but little in the way of facts.

Things are not as roisy as you paint them... I live in Shenzhen/Hong Kong since Feb 2019.

That's unfortunate. You missed the place's heyday. I lived in HK from 1992 to 2017, spending a lot of time in the mainland. A period over which China went from backwards to pretty advanced. A fascinating transformation to watch. I spent 2 months in HK at the end of last year, and it has really changed for the worse. All you've seen is that declining side of the place.

[coppice]

Things are not as roisy as you paint them... I live in Shenzhen/Hong Kong since Feb 2019.

Please tell us then how they really are. I'm going off what I was told by folks who live there too.

Friends, or people making videos trying to sell you an exciting story?

[asmi]

Friends, or people making videos trying to sell you an exciting story?

I didn't watch a single video about this topic, and rely on a people I personally know.

[Black Phoenix]

Friends, or people making videos trying to sell you an exciting story?

I didn't watch a single video about this topic, and rely on a people I personally know.

Then you should start to think about weeding down the experiences people tell you...

You made me take out the laptop to reply to you so:

What people sell you is not the overall climate. In Shenzhen, heck in entire China it was always the following: When they see you as a foreigner, they see you as a bag of money with legs. It is guaranteed that you prices are not going to be as good as Chinese business owner, plus you don't have "connections" which means dinners full of alcohol and pretty girls or KTVs with rental girls (you know what I mean). You are going to be always the one they will try to extract the max money from you, being by taking extra time, requiring extra payment or a mix of both. Ohh and you will get scammed in something by someone. That is guaranteed as the sun rising each day.

It is true that everything is connected at a short distance and you are able to get that prototype working in your table in less than 2 days but the reality most of the time is a long, slog exchange of emails, visits for then the stuff to arrive differently of what you ordered. It is more the times they screw up than the times they get it right at first.

Knowing their language doesn't change how they see you, they just make them more cautions around you because now you know what they are saying between them (and believe me when you start learning some of the language that blanket of bliss and sparks just falls and you get the punch in the gut).

Currently the market is in disarray. Most of Western Investment is running away, factories are closing left and right. Hong Kong as the Financial Hub, where companies go to invest in Mainland China is no more, specially after the 2021 add of Article 23 of Hong Kong's Basic Law, mostly know as Hong Kong national security law.

That's unfortunate. You missed the place's heyday. I lived in HK from 1992 to 2017, spending a lot of time in the mainland. A period over which China went from backwards to pretty advanced. A fascinating transformation to watch. I spent 2 months in HK at the end of last year, and it has really changed for the worse. All you've seen is that declining side of the place.

Then you know what I am talking about above. Those times you lived were the best ones, they are not coming back. COVID was the "straw that broke the camel's back" and the cracks started to happen. Economic rebound as expected didn't happen, capital and knowledge is fleeing the country as we speak, companies close left and right, unemployment in younger bracket (18 to 25) is above 25%, people cut spending everywhere, this 11.11 was the worse I saw since I was here. It was common for boxes to pile up in the pick up spots, this year it was exactly as each month is. Probably a small increase but not piles and piles of boxes stacking up to be retrieved.

Before that there was the crackdown in the International Education centres and after that the crackdown to the Technological Companies, where Alibaba was the biggest to get the hammer and now was split in different companies, each with a part of their big business. Jack Ma just got ousted (well "forced" retirement) and the rest is history. Add the Construction Segment of the economy crashing down and the unreliable Stock Market and you have a recipe for something very bad to happen.

[Neutrion]

We order injection moulds from there, because locally they don't even use the right type of steel for the parts, and the people working on it are not knowledgeable and experienced enough. Meanwhile a factory in China will spill out 50 moulds a week.

In the 80s, when work started moving from the EU and US to Asia in volume, we used to hear politicians say it was the low end simple work that was moving. This was true, but move on 30 years and all the highly skilled and experienced people are those people in Asia who got their start doing those simpler jobs when they were young.

Yes, just like when they now say the same thing with "AI".

Exactly my thinking all the time when I remember how often I saw "argumentation" in the last decade from "western" people that the direction in China is heading is not going to be a problem because "we are so much smarter" and the chinese still can not do this and that.
At the moment the german car companies basically lost the chinese markets, and heading to loose the rest as well. The solar power industry is firmly a chinese monopoly, and they are heading there in every sector. But than some people are still able to find something what they can not.

In ten years it will be like: "But their dick is still smaller!!"

But your other argumentation that the green transformation would be the main issue I tend to disagree with. China is investing at the moment way more into it than the west.

In Germany the now planned big and costly transformation of the domestic heating systems will cost 12 billion Euro annually. But they are speding 50 billion yearly to feed, and give housing, free language courses etc. to people who are in the country against the law. Their pocket money is more then some hungarians can spend after deducing the housing costs.
But if the poor hungarians would go and ask for these things they would be kicked out of the country immediately. Only because they are from Europe.THIS is the single biggest "investment" in Germany at the moment. And it is not even debated about. I just saw a debate in the german TV about where the country could spare some money because of some budget issues. Options where: The new chip production factories, green transformation, or the money  jobless germans get. I am really speechless.
 

[coppercone2]

its nice that someone works on social problems rather then just trying to push the GDP up by any means necessary (Hmm... china comes to mind). Alot of people feel that sort of thing is important. go germany. because obviously we are all missing the ethical and obvious solution to the problem...

[Neutrion]

The obvious ethical solution would be the one the US is doing with illegal immigrants. I don't think you let everybody in an provide them with free money if they are sayin they are "refugees" at the border.
(Exception Ukrainians who ARE real refugees, but I am not complaining about them.)
Can I just walk in there without papers from Mexico? Or you just pushing the GDP?
No country can be forced to solve social issues of other countries, especially not this way.
But you can try, and after a while the not so ethical solutions will happen. In case of Germany we could call them old scool solutions.

Alot of people feel that sort of thing is important. go germany.

A lot of people... how many? Have they been asked?

[glenenglish]

Boscoe said "Efinix, another Chinese company, has really modernised FPGA development in my opinion. Again by using modern technolo"

Efinix is NOT a chinese company. Suggest do your homework.....

[5U4GB]

He's talking about Europe west of Odra - you know, half of the continent or thereabouts

Ah, Right. I forgot about Oder–Neisse line which separates civilisation from barbarian states.

Which side though?

Oh, that's just the outer marker, the real line is the English Channel.  On one side: Civilisation and cups of tea.  On the other side: Nothing but bloody foreigners :-).

[magic]

Checks out, cups and tea were both invented on the civilized side of the channel and the barbarian side is hardly anything but foreigners nowadays

[ftg]

The fun thing about ESP-IDF is that it did not exist when ESP8266 was released.
After ESP8266 got a community made stack and subsequently got popular in the west, then did ESP-IDF happen.
And it just coincidentally happend after Espressif hired Jeroen "sprite_tm" Domburg, a Dutch national.
He is not alone at Espressif.
So they hired the expertize to get a better position on the western market.
It seems to have worked very well for them.