Author Topic: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703  (Read 21853 times)

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Offline joeqsmith

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Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« on: October 07, 2017, 04:14:40 pm »
Things have changed at MS.  My wife will never forgive them after the key switch.  The forced upgrade (at least that's what they call it) has given me a productive boost.

To my friends who were let go.  I'm glad your not part of this mess because it would end our friendship!   To Bill and company for letting go of the reins, a BIG thanks to you all as well. 

To Satya Narayana Nadella, good luck with the new direction you are taking the company.  I hope you figure out who your target users are fast.

Sorry for the rant.
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Offline IanB

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2017, 04:17:33 pm »
Looks like "F9" is an attractive option  :-\
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 
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Offline saturation

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2017, 05:27:01 pm »
Sorry to hear Joe.  I use Veracrypt with 1607 and all is well.  WinPE or WinRE don't recognize the Veracrypt bootloader to load 1703 so it falls back on 1607 and prevents the Win10 "upgrade" .

I still get periodic fixes for 1607 layered on Veracrypt.  I would hope by the expiration of support for 1607, 1703 would have all bugs worked out.

Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2017, 05:55:06 pm »
Beyond all the Spyware and Candy Crush game and other useless BS they had in 10, it was at least as stable as my XP box that it replaced.  PC was so much faster I was changing how I was implementing some of my designs.   Now I am beginning to hate the new PC.  The intrusive popups from MS in the middle of doing work.  Why?   At one time the PC was generating a fair amount of traffic.  I figured it was a patch.  No, it's all outgoing data.  I look in the services and there is a keyboard monitor running, sending my data out.  I quick search, yep common knowledge.   

Last one, I was going to upload some pictures on this site.  Plug in the flash key.  Nothing.  I start looking, all the USB devices are down.  The Signal Hound is on a separate PCIe board and even it would not run.  Power cycle the PC, again, and now at least the devices are working.

Several times and a long time, yea those are understatements.   I feel so productive!!! 
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Offline HoracioDos

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2017, 06:05:55 pm »
Hi Joe.
Be prepared for Fall Update on 17th Oct. It will be a big update. I would recommend to create a disk image on the first days of October.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2017, 06:30:02 pm »
Hi Joe.
Be prepared for Fall Update on 17th Oct. It will be a big update. I would recommend to create a disk image on the first days of October.

Wait, what!!!  That was a 3.5GBish update they just did.  With my connection speed my wife's laptop took a good 24 hour to complete! Really!! How much bigger can it get??  I'm pretty big on backing up data and to be honest, if they brick it with all their BS it may be the better in the long run.  I am looking at pricing for 7 64-bit now.   
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Offline HoracioDos

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2017, 06:59:10 pm »
There are a lot of changes. Biggest features added like Mixed Reality, Timeline, Onedrive on Demand
 

Offline rstofer

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2017, 07:26:28 pm »
I have been using 1703 since whenever Microsoft pushed it.  I didn't know about the problems at the time and I don't have the problems now.

I have 4 machines running Win 10 (2-Surface Pros, 1-Surface Book and a new I7-7700k desktop) and they all work flawlessly.  As far as I'm concerned, Win 10 is the best version ever created.  Win 7 was good, Win 10 is better.

I'm not the least bit concerned about the October update.  It'll work out just fine!
 

Offline rdl

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2017, 07:29:55 pm »
Until there is an acceptable consumer version of Windows 10, I intend to avoid using it. OEM Windows 7 Pro is around $150. A bargain compared to the hassle of keeping Microsoft at bay with Windows 10.
 

Offline HoracioDos

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2017, 07:40:20 pm »
It'll work out just fine!
They usually do but I've seen a lot of problems with modest hardware. Last week a friend asked me why he couldn't install Creators Update on his new Windows 10 notebook. After checking his notebook specs I found that he owns a cloudbook (32GB eMMC and 2GB RAM). I don't understand why a manufacturer sells a notebook that It can't be updated within the same OS.
 

Offline IanB

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2017, 07:54:58 pm »
They usually do but I've seen a lot of problems with modest hardware. Last week a friend asked me why he couldn't install Creators Update on his new Windows 10 notebook. After checking his notebook specs I found that he owns a cloudbook (32GB eMMC and 2GB RAM). I don't understand why a manufacturer sells a notebook that It can't be updated within the same OS.

Ask instead why a vendor produces a "universal" OS (phones, tablets, workstations) that can't be installed on a lightweight notebook?
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Offline Lightages

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2017, 07:55:16 pm »
Win10 for me? NEVER. Microsoft can go to hell. I am running Win7 until it isn't possible and am switching to Linux as I can.

I think I have spent more time fixing other people's computers for Win10 problems, and avoiding and removing Win10 spyware pushed as updates to Win7 than I have ever spent fixing any other problem on my computer. Win10 is junk.
 
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Offline kolbep

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2017, 07:58:23 pm »
Finally Accepted the Creators update on a Production Computer (Used for Stage Projection).
Beeg Mistake. It does not like the Geforce GT730 Graphics Card. As soon as you reboot after installing any driver for that graphics card, it shows black screen, with spinning dots. Logging in to teamviewer shows that the machine works fine, it is only the Displays that are dead.

Worked until 2AM in the morning busy reloading the computer, reinstalling all different versions of the Driver, and finally got it working.
Shut the machine down, took it to the Venue for a wedding, and Black screen again.

Eventually found a machine at the Venue that the user kept on telling it not to install updates, so it did not have the creators update. Popped the card into that machine, installed the driver, and the Presentation software, and got it up and running with about 1 hour left to the wedding.

I have found a place to download the Anniversary Update, and am downloading that now. I will be reloading that machine, and then doing all I can to kill that beast that is Automatic Updates.

Damn U Microsoft!
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Offline HoracioDos

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2017, 08:18:12 pm »
Ask instead why a vendor produces a "universal" OS (phones, tablets, workstations) that can't be installed on a lightweight notebook?
I agree with you mostly but hardware should be prepared for OS lifecycle. I think the problem is that Windows 10 has become a rolling update OS like many linux distro and it will grow in the next years until MS decides that Win10 brand isn't cool anymore.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 10:37:08 pm by HoracioDos »
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2017, 08:32:55 pm »
There are a lot of changes. Biggest features added like Mixed Reality, Timeline, Onedrive on Demand
It's a desktop PC and I back everything up locally, so I really have no use for cloud stuff.   I don't use it for playing games so the reality stuff does nothing for me.  I have yet to own a cell phone! lol Consider me low tech.  So timeline again does nothing for me.   So what you're say is MS will again push something that is totally worthless to me.   Tell me they are at least including a new Candy Crush game, because I am all about that!! 
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Offline HoracioDos

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2017, 08:43:19 pm »
So what you're say is MS will again push something that is totally worthless to me.   Tell me they are at least including a new Candy Crush game, because I am all about that!!
I don't want to be a bad omen bird, but YES!
 

Offline Ampera

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2017, 08:54:15 pm »
I run Windows Server 2016 as my desktop OS, and it doesn't have stupid updates like this, just normal boring updates that previous versions of Windows did. This means an update is not as likely to brick the machine. I strongly suggest it to anybody with an Imagine or MSDN subscription.
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Offline German_EE

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2017, 08:55:18 pm »
I have a working MS Windows 10 machine that drives a lot of my test equipment and I want it to STAY working. I have therefore removed the network drivers.
Should you find yourself in a chronically leaking boat, energy devoted to changing vessels is likely to be more productive than energy devoted to patching leaks.

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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2017, 09:02:54 pm »
I have a working MS Windows 10 machine that drives a lot of my test equipment and I want it to STAY working. I have therefore removed the network drivers.
:-DD :-DD :-DD :-+
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2017, 09:11:36 pm »
I run Windows Server 2016 as my desktop OS, and it doesn't have stupid updates like this, just normal boring updates that previous versions of Windows did. This means an update is not as likely to brick the machine. I strongly suggest it to anybody with an Imagine or MSDN subscription.
Wow, I have not heard of MSDN in a very long time.  I was not even aware they still offered it.  I joined when they first offered it and later joined their C compiler developers what ever it was called.  I even have my tie dyed t-shirt still.   :-DD   They used to publish a lot of really good articles in it.  I had a version of NT 3 I think that had the Windows 95 GUI hooked to it.  Always some pretty cool stuff to try out.    They ended the C tools and I assumed when they never contacted me about my subscription for NSDN that they no longer offered it.   
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Online blueskull

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2017, 09:38:43 pm »
Wow, I have not heard of MSDN in a very long time.  I was not even aware they still offered it.  I joined when they first offered it and later joined their C compiler developers what ever it was called.  I even have my tie dyed t-shirt still.   :-DD   They used to publish a lot of really good articles in it.  I had a version of NT 3 I think that had the Windows 95 GUI hooked to it.  Always some pretty cool stuff to try out.    They ended the C tools and I assumed when they never contacted me about my subscription for NSDN that they no longer offered it.

A cracked VS6.0 and corresponding MSDN was what brought me to the world of computer. Jeez in the old days Win98/WinXP SDK came with a lot of interesting samples highlighting usages of Win32 APIs.
It seems like starting from .NET era, MS has been alienating Win32API and pushing people to use .NET APIs.
While I'm a fan of .NET and I use C#/mono a lot, I still don't get why on earth they want to hide Ain32APIs from users. The same confusion applies to Cocoa as well.

That being said, Win10 1703 did bring some good things, particularly USB Audio Class 2.0, which means native 24/192 support. As an audio gear entrepreneur, that means I can spare the money from licensing Thesycon drivers.

As it was pointed out before, your hard drive may be lost due to encryption tool like VeraCrypt or TrueCrypt. Well, MS never wanted you to use such, and there's a reason why they provide BitLocker. It might be compromised by governments, but to ordinary hackers, mostly script boys, BitLocker should be safe enough. Anyway putting sensitive data on boot drive isn't a good idea.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 09:43:44 pm by blueskull »
 

Offline G7PSK

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2017, 09:39:38 pm »
You can use programs like spybot anti beacon to stop windows 10 doing an ET and phoning home. With that and a few registry tweaks like turning of the silent app installer you are fairly safe.
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2017, 09:48:20 pm »
You can use programs like spybot anti beacon to stop windows 10 doing an ET and phoning home. With that and a few registry tweaks like turning of the silent app installer you are fairly safe.

As far as I know, you can't stop WIn10 from spying. Some of the spying is built into the kernel. It has its own built in rootkit.
 

Offline HoracioDos

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2017, 09:57:42 pm »
As far as I know, you can't stop WIn10 from spying. Some of the spying is built into the kernel. It has its own built in rootkit.

I think that a lot of outbound network traffic can be blocked through the firewall if privacy is a big issue.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2017, 11:06:54 pm »
I wonder if you are working at home under an NDA and MS pulls something they perhaps should not but you didn't take the time to read their War and Peace license, I would assume you are on the hook.  Corporate ethics?  What corporate ethics?   I guess if you are from a part of the world where theft is second nature, it's no big deal. 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2017, 11:09:13 pm »
Pretty good video on the MS culture.   



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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2017, 11:35:47 pm »
I have been using 1703 since whenever Microsoft pushed it.  I didn't know about the problems at the time and I don't have the problems now.

I have 4 machines running Win 10 (2-Surface Pros, 1-Surface Book and a new I7-7700k desktop) and they all work flawlessly.  As far as I'm concerned, Win 10 is the best version ever created.  Win 7 was good, Win 10 is better.

I'm not the least bit concerned about the October update.  It'll work out just fine!
That's the part that hurts so much - it is a good OS. Except that they ship all sorts of user data to unknown lands, tend to fiddle with the UI unannounced and prevent users from having real and proper control over their system. Windows was always a bit obtuse in that regards, but now it's intent, instead of an accident. Not to mention that horror show they call the Windows Store that gets feverishly pushed.

It's has turned into a system you're allowed to use, rather than it being your system, and we can thank Nadella for that.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 11:38:06 pm by Mr. Scram »
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2017, 11:46:00 pm »
As far as I know, you can't stop WIn10 from spying. Some of the spying is built into the kernel. It has its own built in rootkit.

I think that a lot of outbound network traffic can be blocked through the firewall if privacy is a big issue.
Lightages is right. It's woven into the fabric of Windows, so removing or disabling it is practically impossible. Blocking the network traffic in your firewall isn't really viable either. The telemetry traffic gets mixed in with traffic you do need, they can change servers at will and there are many thousands of domains used.

Your best bet is looking for an Enterprise, Education or Server edition. Only those actually allow the disabling of telemetry, simply because Microsoft cannot afford to infuriate those user groups. Normal users are too fragmented and organised to get a say, as most don't know or care, and therefore have to swallow whatever comes their way.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2017, 11:48:31 pm »
I wonder if you are working at home under an NDA and MS pulls something they perhaps should not but you didn't take the time to read their War and Peace license, I would assume you are on the hook.  Corporate ethics?  What corporate ethics?   I guess if you are from a part of the world where theft is second nature, it's no big deal.
With the wrong telemetry setting, chances are you send your confidential document to Microsoft as part of an error report. Obviously, you don't have any control over how that information is secured along the way or on their servers. That's one conversation I wouldn't want to have with my security officer, and in some industries it can impact a career in serious ways.
 

Offline rdl

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2017, 01:41:44 am »
Speaking as a user of Microsoft operating systems since DOS 6 and Windows 3.1, Windows 10 is not gonna happen here any time soon. The only possible use I see for it in the future is to run a gaming only machine.
 

Online blueskull

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2017, 02:11:51 am »
To telemetry haters:
1. I believe MS only sends whatever they said they are sending per EULA. Otherwise they would have been drawn by lawsuits over the world.
2. No one forces you to use Win10. Win7 OEM keys and universal keys (pirate keys that are not banned yet) are everywhere.
3. Win10 update can be permanently stopped by using regedit and gpedit, or simply set your Internet connection as paid by bandwidth and disable auto update when using paid by bandwidth connections.
4. Win10 kernel has loopholes, and they are well documented. It has a public key based certificate system in kernel, and some programs with a MS certificate can have more privilege. Anti malware and DRM companies can get a certificate to allow their programs to have access other programs don't have, so do some MS programs such as update manager.
5. WinXP and Win7 also have a lot of secret backdoors, being releaved by some hackers. How, some of the best Windows hackers such as Mark Russinovich, are hired by MS and will only spit out censored info, but it doesn't mean there are no other hackers trying to reveal how Windows really works.
6. There are various ways to get access to Win10 enterprise as an individual. KMS cracking tools is open source and hence 100% backdoor free, and can activate all Windows 7/10 versions. Starter version of Window server is not much more expensive than Win10 pro either.
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #31 on: October 08, 2017, 03:01:10 am »
2. No one forces you to use Win10. Win7 OEM keys and universal keys (pirate keys that are not banned yet) are everywhere.
3. Win10 update can be permanently stopped by using regedit and gpedit, or simply set your Internet connection as paid by bandwidth and disable auto update when using paid by bandwidth connections.
4. Win10 kernel has loopholes, and they are well documented. It has a public key based certificate system in kernel, and some programs with a MS certificate can have more privilege. Anti malware and DRM companies can get a certificate to allow their programs to have access other programs don't have, so do some MS programs such as update manager.
6. There are various ways to get access to Win10 enterprise as an individual. KMS cracking tools is open source and hence 100% backdoor free, and can activate all Windows 7/10 versions. Starter version of Window server is not much more expensive than Win10 pro either.

Do you have any suggestions which aren't illegal?
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2017, 03:10:37 am »
To telemetry haters:
1. I believe MS only sends whatever they said they are sending per EULA. Otherwise they would have been drawn by lawsuits over the world.
2. No one forces you to use Win10. Win7 OEM keys and universal keys (pirate keys that are not banned yet) are everywhere.
3. Win10 update can be permanently stopped by using regedit and gpedit, or simply set your Internet connection as paid by bandwidth and disable auto update when using paid by bandwidth connections.
4. Win10 kernel has loopholes, and they are well documented. It has a public key based certificate system in kernel, and some programs with a MS certificate can have more privilege. Anti malware and DRM companies can get a certificate to allow their programs to have access other programs don't have, so do some MS programs such as update manager.
5. WinXP and Win7 also have a lot of secret backdoors, being releaved by some hackers. How, some of the best Windows hackers such as Mark Russinovich, are hired by MS and will only spit out censored info, but it doesn't mean there are no other hackers trying to reveal how Windows really works.
6. There are various ways to get access to Win10 enterprise as an individual. KMS cracking tools is open source and hence 100% backdoor free, and can activate all Windows 7/10 versions. Starter version of Window server is not much more expensive than Win10 pro either.
Lots of problems here:

1. Microsoft tells us that they ship out lots of data. That doesn't make it right, even if it means they get away with it from it from a legal point of view. Of course, as someone pointed out, a lot of the information is buried in a War and Peace sized text, written in legalese, referring to yet other texts. A bit more recently, more insight was given into what is actually shipped back to Microsoft and the picture painted is not comforting. The fact that Microsoft has been shifty and reluctant about the details certainly hasn't helped them make their case.
2. No one is forcing you to use Windows 10. Except that support for other version of Windows seems to be intentionally frustrated, and that people have been upgraded against their will. Obviously, support for Windows 7 and 8.1 will eventually be dropped completely. Moving to another OS simply isn't always an option. Microsoft intended to drop support on a previously supported processor generation and only backtracked under threat of legal action. If you want to use Windows 7 on AMD's new chips, or anything newer than Skylake, too bad. It isn't going to happen. You need Windows 10. If that's not forcing, it's so close I have trouble telling the difference.
3. Stopping updates is like driving a burglar out of your house by setting it on fire. It's not a viable solution if you care about a secure system.

6. Open source is not the same as a guarantee against backdoors. There have been examples in the past where very clever editing of the code made it function very differently, which only someone intimately familiar with the code and system could discover and decipher.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 03:40:39 am by Mr. Scram »
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2017, 03:16:32 am »
2. No one forces you to use Win10. Win7 OEM keys and universal keys (pirate keys that are not banned yet) are everywhere.
3. Win10 update can be permanently stopped by using regedit and gpedit, or simply set your Internet connection as paid by bandwidth and disable auto update when using paid by bandwidth connections.
4. Win10 kernel has loopholes, and they are well documented. It has a public key based certificate system in kernel, and some programs with a MS certificate can have more privilege. Anti malware and DRM companies can get a certificate to allow their programs to have access other programs don't have, so do some MS programs such as update manager.
6. There are various ways to get access to Win10 enterprise as an individual. KMS cracking tools is open source and hence 100% backdoor free, and can activate all Windows 7/10 versions. Starter version of Window server is not much more expensive than Win10 pro either. You still get to deal with a lot of the other nonsense, though.

Do you have any suggestions which aren't illegal?
Using Windows 8.1 seems to be the best solution for now. It's almost as good as Windows 10 under the hood, and is more secure than Windows 7 while also having a longer support period. It seems to get a lot of hate it doesn't quite deserve, so maybe Windows 10 can finally be its saving grace.

Another solution would be to get the Enterprise, Education or Server Edition. Those explicitly allow telemetry to be turned down the most. Not off, mind you. There is still communications going on for the sake of updates, which doesn't seem unreasonable and is a lot like previous versions of Windows do it. The Server Edition is freely available, but generally not cheap. The Education Edition is often cheaply available to students, educators, schools and institutions, but generally is only legally available to that group. Enterprise can only be purchased by companies who buy larger quantities at once, so called volume licensing, and is probably the toughest to obtain legally.

Finally, there's the Enterprise LTSB Edition, which has the explicit purpose of being a version with the least amount of update ugliness going on. This version is intended for systems that need to be as reliable as possible. One example would be the computers that are used to process information coming from medical devices, like MRI scanners. This seems to be a great version to have, except that it's as hard to get as the Enterprise Edition.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 03:44:59 am by Mr. Scram »
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #34 on: October 08, 2017, 03:21:26 am »
Win10 for me? NEVER. Microsoft can go to hell. I am running Win7 until it isn't possible and am switching to Linux as I can.

I am exactly the same boat. Windows 7 is the last version of Windows I'll be using. I would sooner switch to Mac OSX before using Windows 10 (and I absolutely hate Apple).
 

Online blueskull

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2017, 03:34:32 am »
Do you have any suggestions which aren't illegal?

I practice vigilantism. I pay for the best and reasonable most expensive product I can buy as a sign of courtesy, but if something is I can't buy (like enterprise license without SA), I'm not ashamed to steal it.
This not only applies to copyright license, but also patent. We (Chinese) are taught to be proud for cloning western technology that they don't sell to us due to ITAR bullshit.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 03:36:20 am by blueskull »
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #36 on: October 08, 2017, 03:42:19 am »
I practice vigilantism. I pay for the best and reasonable most expensive product I can buy as a sign of courtesy, but if something is I can't buy (like enterprise license without SA), I'm not ashamed to steal it.
This not only applies to copyright license, but also patent. We (Chinese) are taught to be proud for cloning western technology that they don't sell to us due to ITAR bullshit.
I never knew FTDI chips are ITAR restricted  ;D
 
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Online blueskull

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #37 on: October 08, 2017, 03:47:27 am »
I practice vigilantism. I pay for the best and reasonable most expensive product I can buy as a sign of courtesy, but if something is I can't buy (like enterprise license without SA), I'm not ashamed to steal it.
This not only applies to copyright license, but also patent. We (Chinese) are taught to be proud for cloning western technology that they don't sell to us due to ITAR bullshit.
I never knew FTDI chips are ITAR restricted  ;D

Don't get me wrong, I hate Chinese clone of commercial products just like you guys, and as a high tech entrepreneur, they hurt me more than you. You guys can say this is made in USA, and I have to compete those creepy cloners on the same ground.

What I don't hate is those state funded researchers that clone western fighter jets, IC manufacturing technologies and other controlled techs designed to alienate third world countries from rising.
 
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Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #38 on: October 08, 2017, 04:07:57 am »

What I don't hate is those state funded researchers that clone western fighter jets, IC manufacturing technologies and other controlled techs designed to alienate third world countries from rising.

Do those state funded researchers then share that technology with all third world countries (or better yet - ALL countries), or do they try to get advantage from the fruits of their labor?  I suspect the latter, which is just what ITAR is all about.
 

Offline gnif

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #39 on: October 08, 2017, 04:17:39 am »
I have spent the last few days getting a workstation setup I can accept. I hate windows, 99% of my work is remoting via SSH to Linux servers, and as such I love running i3wm as my desktop environment due to the amount of sheer screen space it provides. But... I also like to play games with friends, and when most of them do not operate under Linux windows is the only option.

So, what I have been messing around with is Debian 9 running a KVM guest with a GeForce 1080Ti passed into it. I was running windows 7 in the guest but to make the video card work (nVidia intentionally detect VMs and refuse to load drivers) the system has to UEFI boot, which while I could make W7 boot, it was very unreliable, hanging during the "starting windows" screen about 90% of the time. Windows 10 however just works, so that is the path I used. The idea was to use steam so stream games back to the host, which works pretty damn well, but the latency is a killer in some games.

So... my solution is to leverage the nVidia capture API to dump uncompressed frames into a block of shared memory between the host and the guest. This is all still in the proof of concept stage, but it seems plausible, it might even be possible to map the memory straight to a DRI mmaped surface making the entire process zero copy. Here is my gripe with windows now...

It took me a few hours to write a proof of concept tool to create a shared memory region and pass it to the VM as virtual hardware.
It has taken me a few days to get a bare bones does nothing Windows driver built... it doesn't even do anything yet.

Why did it take this long... windows updates, broken system, recovery required, etc, etc, etc....

My biggest general windows gripe is the fonts.... If you turn off font smoothing to make small size fixed width fonts more legible (in my opinion), the entire system looks like ass. I never liked font smoothing, I like nice clean hard edges for text and find it much easier to read for long periods of time.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 04:24:35 am by gnif »
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Online blueskull

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #40 on: October 08, 2017, 04:18:39 am »
Do those state funded researchers then share that technology with all third world countries (or better yet - ALL countries), or do they try to get advantage from the fruits of their labor?  I suspect the latter, which is just what ITAR is all about.

The art is to negotiate. China can say now they have xxx technology that other third world countries don't have, and then blackmail the west to get lifted on banning of yyy technology otherwise to distribute xxx technology to other countries.

Also, since the goal of ITAR is to control weapons, not to control economy, therefore if something is controlled but a country out of ITAR list can also demonstrate the ability to manufacture it, then the sanction on that technology should be lifted to that country.

Chinese government uses this rule to get a lot of western technology -- steal sample, clone, demonstrate, then import legally. This is how China gets western countries to license and export passenger aircraft, peaceful use of nuclear and IC fab technology.

A lot of Chinese state funded researches are not target to make actual usable products. Instead, they are just to show leverage and force western countries to export these to us. We know we can't make 28nm steppers, but we can use exporting 45nm steppers to sanctioned countries as a leverage to force the west to lift sanctions on us.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #41 on: October 08, 2017, 03:21:14 pm »
Do you have any suggestions which aren't illegal?
I practice vigilantism. I pay for the best and reasonable most expensive product I can buy as a sign of courtesy, but if something is I can't buy (like enterprise license without SA), I'm not ashamed to steal it.

Your family had enough to send you here to the US for your education.  You talk of buying higher end PCs and equipment.  We can assume it's not a question of money.  It's a difference in upbringing. Personally, if I were hiring people and knew one was at a lessor technical level than another but had higher ethics, I can tell you which one I will extend an offer to.  I can always teach the technical side.

Interesting video about the Windows 10 tracking. 
https://youtu.be/wPFbAqICUJo

How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #42 on: October 08, 2017, 04:40:56 pm »
nobody mentioned yet that the last updates for W7 included backports of the W10 spyware!!
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #43 on: October 08, 2017, 04:57:44 pm »
nobody mentioned yet that the last updates for W7 included backports of the W10 spyware!!
It's the same for Windows 8 and 8.1. Worse still, these updates are often "re-released", which means that if you uninstalled them, they get pushed again.

The upside is that you can easily uninstall these updates, which is completely impossible in Windows 10. The difference is that it is tacked onto the older OSs, while it's woven into the new one. The matter of updates being re-released can be remedied in various ways, like having a task run regularly to check for and uninstall said updates.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #44 on: October 08, 2017, 04:58:44 pm »
nobody mentioned yet that the last updates for W7 included backports of the W10 spyware!!

Damn You!!!  Why ruin my whole day?  :-DD :-DD
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #45 on: October 08, 2017, 07:10:53 pm »
The spyware pushed as updates to Win7 were basically stopped when the free update to Win10 stopped.There were programs that helped kill them. The thing to do is not allow any Win7 updates until you can search them and see if they are more spyware from Win10.
 

Online blueskull

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #46 on: October 08, 2017, 07:24:59 pm »
I practice vigilantism. I pay for the best and reasonable most expensive product I can buy as a sign of courtesy, but if something is I can't buy (like enterprise license without SA), I'm not ashamed to steal it.

Your family had enough to send you here to the US for your education.  You talk of buying higher end PCs and equipment.  We can assume it's not a question of money.  It's a difference in upbringing. Personally, if I were hiring people and knew one was at a lessor technical level than another but had higher ethics, I can tell you which one I will extend an offer to.  I can always teach the technical side.

I'm not hesitate to buy software. I have spent more than $10k on engineering tools, and they all have a common feature -- can be bought with money.
For my previous example, you can't buy a legit Win7 anymore (OEM keys are illegal to be installed by yourself), so stealing is the only option to get it.
The same for Win10 enterprise. MS doesn't sell SA to individual (and Win2016 doesn't have full multimedia support as well as low latency kernel preemptive model), so as an individual user, to get a backdoor free Win10 for home use, the only way is to steal a copy.
Someone has previously mentioned MSDN subscription, well, MSDN keys are supposed to be used to test your software, not to be used as a permanent installation, so technically it's illegal too.

To be fair, my university (with top 30 engineering school by US Daily) also uses a lot of improperly licensed software, such as grant money paid PhDs using educational license, or students/professors using site license to do side business. Apparently nobody cares.
Also to be fair, NewEgg and Amazon also violate OEM license rule. Amazon sells OEM license to individual buyers without hardware, and NewEgg installs OEM license on your computer without using OPK.
The list goes on and on, and I've personally bought fake Windows copies (fake retail box with genuine OEM key) from a Canada based seller.

I guess MS knows their EULA is bullshit, and even they don't care if you activate your OS with an OEM, MSDN or even universal key. On the other hand, they f* their licensed users -- I remember in Win7 era, you can transfer a retail license to another PC and it will auto activate itself (and reactivate 4 times before telephone activation is required), and for Win10, it fails to activate and you have to talk to their tech support. For god's sake I paid $180 for a boxed retail license and I transferred it the first time from my Fusion VM to Parallels VM on the same Mac.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #47 on: October 08, 2017, 07:38:46 pm »
Microsoft doesn't care about it, until they do care. Imagine the joy when one of those universities gets audited. Of course, Microsoft isn't alone. Thanks to the BSA, a lot of parties can require you to allow an audit and they will look not only for their own licenses, but those of others too. So you don't just get slapped around for an illegal Windows key, but also for that copy of Photoshop and Inventor.

It's a collection of parties with deep pockets and very experiences legal teams, who have played the same game for years. You won't come out on top.
 

Offline rdl

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #48 on: October 08, 2017, 08:53:40 pm »
The updates to push/force Windows 10 on users during it's "free" phase did stop, but I don't believe they were the (only) ones that added "telemetry" to Windows 7 and 8.
 

Offline Buriedcode

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #49 on: October 08, 2017, 08:55:38 pm »
Like many in this thread, I am not thrilled with windows 10.  More specifically, it providing the option to "defer updates", but downloading and installing them anyway.  There are a few other options that are given to the user, that are similarly ignored.  As I have got older, I dread updates more and more,as they do tend to 'break' things.  In the interest of balance...

However.  The cries of 'spyware', anti-privacy, and general bashing of MS is getting as bad as the bashing of Apple.  You are all free to choose what OS you use (unless for work, in which case your IT department worries about security, not you). For every thing I dislike about windows 10 (windows 7 had a similar reaction btw, but was muted because vista was so ghastly) there are many things I do like, but don't really think about because it just works. 

And that's the point: we expect OS's to be intuitive, responsive, and just do their job - when they do that, we don't notice them.  That is why you will find few people "praising" an operating system (unless they are trying to jump on a bandwagon).  But features we don't like? we remember.

-Edge is now, IMO the fastest 'convenient' browser for windows.  Not that it is stellar, just that chrome and firefox have bloated out with heavy memory usage.
-Windows defender means we won't have to install bloated and resource-hogging third-party antivirus apps.  Again, it isn't ideal, but it does its job just fine.
-My PC is as fast, if not slightly faster as it was under windows 7.  On 6 year old hardware, I find this hard to believe, but its true.  5 seconds from power button to desktop.
-Win10 does have higher hardware requirements than win7, and whilst I disagreed with the big push for windows 10, those who find it terribly slow are probably running hardware that is past its prime.
-Windows 10 is as customisable as win7 was, one sometimes has to go through hoops to turn off certain features, but it is doable.  Often taking about 15 seconds to google, which is much quicker than  writing a forum post about how much you don't like that particular feature.  Many of the 'hacks' that were used for win7, are the same for windows 10. (customized searches, explorer, admin rights, themes, shortcuts etc..).

As for privacy and personal information.  We give away a fair bit of personal information, which is sold on in the 'big data' market.  Many seem to think this is illegal and hidden - it really isn't, just read license agreements.  I would obviously prefer if my personal information wasn't collected, but ultimately it is still my choice to use windows 10, warts 'n' all.  It would be very difficult to live ones life trying to not give away any personal data, but its possible - its the price we pay for modern convenience. 

And those who have resolutely stuck to windows 7, good for you. It is a fine OS, and almost all applications will still run on it.  You use this knowing full well the risks of an OS that is no longer supported, and with a slow decline of available software. I can't see windows 7 use dropping significantly in the next few years.

For those with windows 10 who really complain - why not switch? There are many Linux distro's to choose from.  Resistance to change is understandable, but you are not forced into using anything.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #50 on: October 08, 2017, 09:06:06 pm »
I practice vigilantism. I pay for the best and reasonable most expensive product I can buy as a sign of courtesy, but if something is I can't buy (like enterprise license without SA), I'm not ashamed to steal it.

Your family had enough to send you here to the US for your education.  You talk of buying higher end PCs and equipment.  We can assume it's not a question of money.  It's a difference in upbringing. Personally, if I were hiring people and knew one was at a lessor technical level than another but had higher ethics, I can tell you which one I will extend an offer to.  I can always teach the technical side.

I'm not hesitate to buy software. I have spent more than $10k on engineering tools, and they all have a common feature -- can be bought with money.
...
transferred it the first time from my Fusion VM to Parallels VM on the same Mac.

There is no need to try and justify your comments to me. 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #51 on: October 08, 2017, 09:15:03 pm »
Like many in this thread, I am not thrilled with windows 10.  ...

For those with windows 10 who really complain - why not switch? There are many Linux distro's to choose from.  Resistance to change is understandable, but you are not forced into using anything.

If I switch, it would not be to any of the GNU flavors.  I play with it from time to time but it's always a nightmare to get anything running and many of the tools that I use the PC for do not support it.   Personally, I would rather have MS get out of the data mining business but it seems it may be the only way they can turn a profit now under the new leadership. 
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Offline G7PSK

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #52 on: October 08, 2017, 09:16:12 pm »
Could go back to XP plus good anti virus and malware programs that way there is only a chance that you get hacked as opposed to the certainty with windows 10 that all your data is grabbed.
The way Microsoft is carrying on they will get done over again by the EU.
 

Offline Buriedcode

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #53 on: October 08, 2017, 09:24:42 pm »
Like many in this thread, I am not thrilled with windows 10.  ...

For those with windows 10 who really complain - why not switch? There are many Linux distro's to choose from.  Resistance to change is understandable, but you are not forced into using anything.

If I switch, it would not be to any of the GNU flavors.  I play with it from time to time but it's always a nightmare to get anything running and many of the tools that I use the PC for do not support it.   Personally, I would rather have MS get out of the data mining business but it seems it may be the only way they can turn a profit now under the new leadership.

You see, this is my point.  You want all the convenience and app support of windows, but also you want their company to have a business model you approve of.  The data mining business is booming, and has led to advances in voice/face recognition, and believe it or not, greatly improved financial security.  It has its dark sides (with medical records sold to insurance companies) but its not like we don't benefit from it at all. Would you rather MS charge $400 for windows 10, remove cortana (I don't really use it..) and onedrive, just so it collected less data? My point is, you benefit from this.

Of course you're free to state your gripes with the software and the company, but if you disagree with a company - why do business with them?
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #54 on: October 08, 2017, 09:31:09 pm »
The updates to push/force Windows 10 on users during it's "free" phase did stop, but I don't believe they were the (only) ones that added "telemetry" to Windows 7 and 8.
Correct.
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #55 on: October 08, 2017, 09:41:36 pm »
The updates to push/force Windows 10 on users during it's "free" phase did stop, but I don't believe they were the (only) ones that added "telemetry" to Windows 7 and 8.
Correct.

Ummmm, that is why I said that nobody should allow updates to Win7 without searching and reviewing them first.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #56 on: October 08, 2017, 09:42:47 pm »
Like many in this thread, I am not thrilled with windows 10.  More specifically, it providing the option to "defer updates", but downloading and installing them anyway.  There are a few other options that are given to the user, that are similarly ignored.  As I have got older, I dread updates more and more,as they do tend to 'break' things.  In the interest of balance...

However.  The cries of 'spyware', anti-privacy, and general bashing of MS is getting as bad as the bashing of Apple.  You are all free to choose what OS you use (unless for work, in which case your IT department worries about security, not you). For every thing I dislike about windows 10 (windows 7 had a similar reaction btw, but was muted because vista was so ghastly) there are many things I do like, but don't really think about because it just works. 

And that's the point: we expect OS's to be intuitive, responsive, and just do their job - when they do that, we don't notice them.  That is why you will find few people "praising" an operating system (unless they are trying to jump on a bandwagon).  But features we don't like? we remember.

-Edge is now, IMO the fastest 'convenient' browser for windows.  Not that it is stellar, just that chrome and firefox have bloated out with heavy memory usage.
-Windows defender means we won't have to install bloated and resource-hogging third-party antivirus apps.  Again, it isn't ideal, but it does its job just fine.
-My PC is as fast, if not slightly faster as it was under windows 7.  On 6 year old hardware, I find this hard to believe, but its true.  5 seconds from power button to desktop.
-Win10 does have higher hardware requirements than win7, and whilst I disagreed with the big push for windows 10, those who find it terribly slow are probably running hardware that is past its prime.
-Windows 10 is as customisable as win7 was, one sometimes has to go through hoops to turn off certain features, but it is doable.  Often taking about 15 seconds to google, which is much quicker than  writing a forum post about how much you don't like that particular feature.  Many of the 'hacks' that were used for win7, are the same for windows 10. (customized searches, explorer, admin rights, themes, shortcuts etc..).

As for privacy and personal information.  We give away a fair bit of personal information, which is sold on in the 'big data' market.  Many seem to think this is illegal and hidden - it really isn't, just read license agreements.  I would obviously prefer if my personal information wasn't collected, but ultimately it is still my choice to use windows 10, warts 'n' all.  It would be very difficult to live ones life trying to not give away any personal data, but its possible - its the price we pay for modern convenience. 

And those who have resolutely stuck to windows 7, good for you. It is a fine OS, and almost all applications will still run on it.  You use this knowing full well the risks of an OS that is no longer supported, and with a slow decline of available software. I can't see windows 7 use dropping significantly in the next few years.

For those with windows 10 who really complain - why not switch? There are many Linux distro's to choose from.  Resistance to change is understandable, but you are not forced into using anything.
Except that you are forced, for reasons already mentioned. Migrating to Linux or Apple isn't always an option. Having a 90% market share means not always leaving people options.

Also, calling it bashing is a bit of a lowball tactic. It suggests people haven't looked at the facts and didn't take any care to form an opinion. I think people here at least have been quite careful in their wordings, and nothing discussed here is blatantly untrue or misrepresented.

Finally, the fact that other parties harvest and sell your data at every opportunity doesn't excuse Microsoft to do so. Many of those services and companies inherently deal with things online. By its very nature, you can't expect full privacy when online. Also, most of these services are provided to you freely, and you pay with your data. In the case of Windows 10, there is no inherent need to harvest and collect data. This has been artificially woven into the OS to allow Microsoft to jump on the bandwagon. It also is a paid product, which means paying again with your data doesn't sit quite right.  Not to mention Microsoft being rather disingenuous about what is harvested and when. Only in the face of legal action, they finally yielded a little bit.

An OS that actually sends detailed information about what application you use, what websites you visit and much more on its default settings can easily be called spyware. Any program on your computer that would do half of that would be considered rather dangerous and very unwanted.
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #57 on: October 08, 2017, 09:49:44 pm »
Ummmm, that is why I said that nobody should allow updates to Win7 without searching and reviewing them first.
I'm not sure that is enough. There's a fair chance they've been rolled into fresh images by now, as the first non Windows 10 telemetry updates were released years ago. I'm not quite sure, though.

Do note it's not just Windows 7, but 8.x too.
 

Offline KE5FX

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #58 on: October 08, 2017, 09:54:37 pm »
Would you rather MS charge $400 for windows 10, remove cortana (I don't really use it..) and onedrive, just so it collected less data?

Any day of the week.
 
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Offline Lightages

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #59 on: October 08, 2017, 09:58:47 pm »
See this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/advice-needed-for-running-linux-and-develeopment-tools-programming-tools-etc/

Life is not perfect and you need to balance one benefit against another. You also have to balance the drawbacks against another. Giving your personal freedom away to big brother is definitely against the US philosophy, that is if you want to follow the founding principles of the US. If you are from another part of the world you might see things differently.

Being free to live a life and pursue personal happiness without harming others was the dream of the 60s and 70s. Ironically the assholes of that epoch decided that corporate control and leeching off the public was more important than the benefit of the world as a whole. So follow the corporate mantra and become a consumer zombie willing to sell your life (literally) to vampires, or try to take back your life.

Google, Microsoft, Facebook, and many others are happy to drain the blood from the sheeple.

Linux is the sheeple fighting back and trying to take back their lives. No you can't do everything with Linux. Does doing what the corporate overlords say you should be able to do matter more to you than being more in control of your life and happiness?

Does the above sound paranoid? I don't care. Take it any way you want. It is your life.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 10:04:28 pm by Lightages »
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #60 on: October 08, 2017, 10:01:01 pm »
I just dropped XP a year ago.  :-DD  Ran fine and did what I needed at home.  I blame that damn Signal Hound!  :-DD
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #61 on: October 08, 2017, 10:04:34 pm »
Would you rather MS charge $400 for windows 10, remove cortana (I don't really use it..) and onedrive, just so it collected less data?

I want no collection and no forced updates.  And yes, I would be willing to pay for it. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Online blueskull

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #62 on: October 08, 2017, 10:07:06 pm »
Would you rather MS charge $400 for windows 10, remove cortana (I don't really use it..) and onedrive, just so it collected less data?

Any day of the week.

If just for OneDrive and Cortana, well, Cortana can be disabled in settings, and starting from 1703 update, OneDrive can be removed from control panel.
To completely remove all OneDrive remnants, go to registry and delete related CLSIDs and explorer settings.
What I would like to see is a $400 Windows 10 Enterprise personal and small business edition -- no forced updates, no ADs, no telemetry besides basic crash analysis and antivirus sampling. Oh, bring back Aero.
Starting from 1703, Aero is partially back, but uses a new set of API that requires programmers to knowingly use it, rather than a generic window decorator. calc.exe demonstrates some of its new UI features.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #63 on: October 08, 2017, 10:07:44 pm »
Why would Windows 10 suddenly be an order of magnitude more expensive than its precursors? That doesn't make much sense.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #64 on: October 08, 2017, 10:10:44 pm »
See this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/advice-needed-for-running-linux-and-develeopment-tools-programming-tools-etc/

Life is not perfect and you need to balance one benefit against another. You also have to balance the drawbacks against another. Giving your personal freedom away to big brother is definitely against the US philosophy, that is if you want to follow the founding principles of the US. If you are from another part of the world you might see things differently.

Being free to live a life and pursue personal happiness without harming others was the dream of the 60s and 70s. Ironically the assholes of that epoch decided that corporate control and leeching off the public was more important than the benefit of the world as a whole. So follow the corporate mantra and become a consumer zombie willing to sell your life (literally) to vampires, or try to take back your life.

Google, Microsoft, Facebook, and many others are happy to drain the blood from the sheeple.

Linux is the sheeple fighting back and trying to take back their lives. No you can't do everything with Linux. Does doing what the corporate overlords say you should be able to do matter more to you than being more in control of your life and happiness?

Does the above sound paranoid? I don't care. Take it any way you want. It is your life.
I can't run the software I need to run under Linux. Believe me, I've tried. That in turn means not running a business. Earning a living on my terms is what I would call being in control of my life and happiness.
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #65 on: October 08, 2017, 10:16:22 pm »
See this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/advice-needed-for-running-linux-and-develeopment-tools-programming-tools-etc/

Life is not perfect and you need to balance one benefit against another. You also have to balance the drawbacks against another. Giving your personal freedom away to big brother is definitely against the US philosophy, that is if you want to follow the founding principles of the US. If you are from another part of the world you might see things differently.

Being free to live a life and pursue personal happiness without harming others was the dream of the 60s and 70s. Ironically the assholes of that epoch decided that corporate control and leeching off the public was more important than the benefit of the world as a whole. So follow the corporate mantra and become a consumer zombie willing to sell your life (literally) to vampires, or try to take back your life.

Google, Microsoft, Facebook, and many others are happy to drain the blood from the sheeple.

Linux is the sheeple fighting back and trying to take back their lives. No you can't do everything with Linux. Does doing what the corporate overlords say you should be able to do matter more to you than being more in control of your life and happiness?

Does the above sound paranoid? I don't care. Take it any way you want. It is your life.
I can't run the software I need to run under Linux. Believe me, I've tried. That in turn means not running a business. Earning a living on my terms is what I would call being in control of my life and happiness.
I understand. So run what you need in whatever version of Windows that doesn't rape you, and run the rest in Linux if you can. I am not trying to tell you what to do, just showing what might be the best way to avoid the problems.

If you feel willing, please state what you cannot do in Linux in my thread as referenced. It would be helpful to me and perhaps others too.
 

Online blueskull

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #66 on: October 08, 2017, 10:17:34 pm »
I can't run the software I need to run under Linux. Believe me, I've tried. That in turn means not running a business. Earning a living on my terms is what I would call being in control of my life and happiness.

Exactly. If Linux or macOS can run Altium Designer, I will dump Windows 10 immediately.
Oh, BTW, if anyone can give me a 100% working solution for running AD17/future AD18 under Linux/macOS, you can have my $180 Win10 retail license for free.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #67 on: October 08, 2017, 10:30:09 pm »
I understand. So run what you need in whatever version of Windows that doesn't rape you, and run the rest in Linux if you can. I am not trying to tell you what to do, just showing what might be the best way to avoid the problems.

If you feel willing, please state what you cannot do in Linux in my thread as referenced. It would be helpful to me and perhaps others too.
Most industry standard software doesn't run in Linux. You can work around that with alternatives, but it generally means being less competitive, to the point of not being able to sustain a business at all.

I don't quite see the point of running Linux next to Windows. If you use it a little, you might as well use it a lot. When it comes to the problem areas, it ultimately matters little. I've taken countermeasures I consider to be adequate for now, but I've noticed I'm increasingly growing tired of battling Microsoft and whatever plot they came up this time. An OS is a tools and tools should allow you to do a job thanks to them, not in spite of them. Unfortunately, the balance seems to shift towards the latter ever more.

The problem is I honestly don't know where I'll go when the breaking point has been reached.
 
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Offline Lightages

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #68 on: October 08, 2017, 10:54:49 pm »
I understand. So run what you need in whatever version of Windows that doesn't rape you, and run the rest in Linux if you can. I am not trying to tell you what to do, just showing what might be the best way to avoid the problems.

If you feel willing, please state what you cannot do in Linux in my thread as referenced. It would be helpful to me and perhaps others too.
Most industry standard software doesn't run in Linux. You can work around that with alternatives, but it generally means being less competitive, to the point of not being able to sustain a business at all.

I don't quite see the point of running Linux next to Windows. If you use it a little, you might as well use it a lot. When it comes to the problem areas, it ultimately matters little. I've taken countermeasures I consider to be adequate for now, but I've noticed I'm increasingly growing tired of battling Microsoft and whatever plot they came up this time. An OS is a tools and tools should allow you to do a job thanks to them, not in spite of them. Unfortunately, the balance seems to shift towards the latter ever more.

The problem is I honestly don't know where I'll go when the breaking point has been reached.

I empathize with you completely. I still basically run WIn7 and almost no Linux at all. The problem is that as long as nobody demands support for Linux and just goes along with the status quo nothing will happen to change it. Giving into Win10 just takes it a step further and things will get worse. I can live with certain losses by switching away from Windows because the losses of continuing with Windows will outweigh the benefits. I sincerely believe that this is the turning point of civilization and freedom. We are somewhere in the knee in the curve and I refuse to be a participant in the demise. It might be too late but I can die in peace that I didn't contribute. What is "success" when it just means you stay a  "successful" pawn and the overlords get ultimate control over the minions. This is what "they" are counting on; people to afraid to lose a little while they gain everything.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #69 on: October 09, 2017, 12:05:08 am »
So blocking every port but 53, 80 and 443 is not good enough.  I need a better router. 

Where's that $450 stripped version of Windows 10 I am hearing about??? 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #70 on: October 09, 2017, 12:30:45 am »
I empathize with you completely. I still basically run WIn7 and almost no Linux at all. The problem is that as long as nobody demands support for Linux and just goes along with the status quo nothing will happen to change it. Giving into Win10 just takes it a step further and things will get worse. I can live with certain losses by switching away from Windows because the losses of continuing with Windows will outweigh the benefits. I sincerely believe that this is the turning point of civilization and freedom. We are somewhere in the knee in the curve and I refuse to be a participant in the demise. It might be too late but I can die in peace that I didn't contribute. What is "success" when it just means you stay a  "successful" pawn and the overlords get ultimate control over the minions. This is what "they" are counting on; people to afraid to lose a little while they gain everything.

We are still talking about a OS aren't we? Perhaps you should go back to Win98 and really stick it too "them".

Written on my Linux PC with keyboard resting on my Surface RT tablet (doing an upgrade) sitting on my Windows 10 laptop.

I am talking about an OS, the philosophy behind it, and the danger to us. I already spoke about going to Linux. WTF is your point?
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #71 on: October 09, 2017, 01:26:45 am »
Looks like the 1703 upgrade broke my VirtualBox 5.1.4-110228.   Downloaded 5.1.28 (latest) and running XP to post this.  Unlike MS, this upgrade seems painless. 

Also, I tried blocking port 443 for fun.  Have wireshark running now.  Funny stuff.   Watching the traffic, I feel like I am sticking it to the man.   :-DD
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Offline IanB

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #72 on: October 09, 2017, 01:38:23 am »
Looks like the 1703 upgrade broke my VirtualBox 5.1.4-110228.   Downloaded 5.1.28 (latest) and running XP to post this.  Unlike MS, this upgrade seems painless.

I installed Windows 10 on a VM that I use for software testing, and got annoyed when it started eating CPU and spinning the disk to download updates. I disabled the update services and now it is blissfully quiet  :)
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 

Offline rdl

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #73 on: October 09, 2017, 02:56:02 am »
Windows 10, version 1703 Diagnostic Data

In my opinion, 90% or more of this is none of their damn business and should not be necessary for "diagnostics" (figuring out why something doesn't work right).

The diagnostic related services are one of the first I shut down in any Windows 7 installation. Can they easily be turned off in Windows 10? I'm guessing "No" on the easily part.



https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/configuration/windows-diagnostic-data

 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #74 on: October 09, 2017, 03:07:00 am »
Looks like the 1703 upgrade broke my VirtualBox 5.1.4-110228.   Downloaded 5.1.28 (latest) and running XP to post this.  Unlike MS, this upgrade seems painless.

I installed Windows 10 on a VM that I use for software testing, and got annoyed when it started eating CPU and spinning the disk to download updates. I disabled the update services and now it is blissfully quiet  :)

10 running 10?

I use VirtualBox to run XP to support my old apps that will not run under 10.   I have found one Big plus.  I own Office XP and when I run it, it would crash on 10 prior to the 1703.  I thought it strange that 10 would not run their own apps.  It appears they fixed it.

I shut off everything related to the network and just let wireshark sit for a half hour.   It's pretty interesting.  You can see them trying to send data using the 443 port.  The hit the DNS and it all looks fine, then they go back to their site.  They keep trying and eventually figure out to try port 80.  Then we get a flood (I left 80 open).    Then they try to again connect on 443.  On and on it goes.    Looks like a fair number of addresses if you wanted to try and filter it. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline IanB

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #75 on: October 09, 2017, 06:10:32 am »
10 running 10?

Actually 7 running 10.
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 

Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #76 on: October 09, 2017, 08:03:54 am »
the real joke is that "professional" software never used to run on windows (the toy o.s.)

you used to have to run it on Solaris, Irix or some other unix variant.

 

Offline HoracioDos

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #77 on: October 09, 2017, 11:41:09 am »
So blocking every port but 53, 80 and 443 is not good enough.  I need a better router. 
Hi Joe

Perhaps you may find this thread useful.
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r30222844-Stop-Windows-10-From-Spying-On-You-36-DNS-Addresses-to-host-file
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #78 on: October 09, 2017, 10:21:12 pm »
So blocking every port but 53, 80 and 443 is not good enough.  I need a better router. 
Hi Joe

Perhaps you may find this thread useful.
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r30222844-Stop-Windows-10-From-Spying-On-You-36-DNS-Addresses-to-host-file
Thanks!  Not too surprised that others have traveled this same path.  It looks like it may be doable. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #79 on: October 09, 2017, 10:38:33 pm »
Thanks!  Not too surprised that others have traveled this same path.  It looks like it may be doable.
Just be aware that Microsoft can change its service addresses on a whim, and that there are reports of Windows 10 circumventing the hosts file altogether. If you block anything, make sure to do it elsewhere in your network.

There's another Windows 10 feature I discovered: it circumvents VPNs, unless you've gone through some effort to prevent it to. Worse still, it's not immediately evident this is happening at all. Instead of neatly sending DNS requests over the VPN, like previous versions of Windows do, it sends it out on any and all available network connections available. This is supposedly to ensure the quickest DNS response, but it tends to utterly destroy a lot of the protection granted by the VPN. I don't quite see the gains offsetting the cost.

To me, it's a simple nuisance, but some people in less scrupulous political climates might literally get killed over the feature.
 

Offline Rick Law

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #80 on: October 10, 2017, 01:01:27 am »
Perhaps this is monopoly getting too arrogant.

We (USA) broke up Standard Oil when it had close to 90% of the market back in 1911 creating 5 smaller oil companies to compete against each other.  Again, in the 1980's we broke up AT&T creating 7 baby-bells thereby eliminating the monopoly and again we had competition.

Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Tweeter, so on, either approach or exceeded the 90% mark in their respective markets.  Sherman Act is there to control monopolies from engaging in anti-competitive behavior or misuse its monopolistic power.  It is perhaps time to assess whether it is in the interest of consumers to invoke the Sherman Act.  At the very lease, it may bring some humility back to these all-powerful emperors running these tech behemoths.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #81 on: October 10, 2017, 01:30:30 am »
Just be aware that Microsoft can change its service addresses on a whim, and that there are reports of Windows 10 circumventing the hosts file altogether. If you block anything, make sure to do it elsewhere in your network.
No plans to block anything at the PC level.  Trying it out right now.
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #82 on: October 10, 2017, 04:17:20 am »
Warms my heart to stick it to them...   This what happens when you press a few keys on the windows 10 calculator... :-DD

How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #83 on: October 10, 2017, 04:28:12 am »
What is all this stuff from CLOUDFLARENET  ....  Oops, I guess that one needs to stay.  :-DD

Anyway, I'm just running DD-WRT in a Linksys router.  Seems simple enough to telnet in and set it up.  I have not been able to get the command window to stick yet.  I can save it and tell it to run it at boot.  But after a power cycle, telnet in and the iptables are not set correctly.  Guessing it is just lack of sleep and something stupid.     
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Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #84 on: October 10, 2017, 07:40:08 am »
DD-WRT is VERY old,
you should look into LEDA.
https://lede-project.org/
 

Online BradC

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #85 on: October 10, 2017, 08:11:57 am »
Warms my heart to stick it to them...   This what happens when you press a few keys on the windows 10 calculator... :-DD

Unfortunately for my day to day work I *need* windows. Fortunately I've been virtualizing it since Windows 95, so I've kinda learned to work around stuff where required.

On the whole I've always found Windows was *more* reliable under virtualization and (at least in pre-Win8 versions) often snappier. There are a few follow-on advantages to that :
- You can completely deny it access to the outside world.
- You can easily and frequently snapshot the machine so you can install/test software and roll back with zero consequences.
- No issues with Virus/Trojan because of the first 2 points.
- Hardware upgrades on a whim with zero driver issues (and consequential WGA headaches if you actually run that stuff).
- No issues with updates or the OS trying to do things behind your back.

Certainly not for everybody, but for my use case it's a super low maintenance option that has far more advantages than disadvantages. Like I said though, I've been using Linux on the desktop full time since about 1996 with windows in a box (TrelOS it was back then from memory, then Win4Lin, Qemu with the KQEMU proprietary accelerator, and now QEMU/KVM). I played with VirtualBox for a while and I've had a good go at VMWare, but always got better results *for my use case* using the Qemu based stuff.

I did spend quite a bit of time watching Windows 10 in a box to see what it spoke to, but I gave up after a while as even with all the published tweaks there was no way to keep it quiet.
Fortunately the software I have that will only run on stuff later than 7 will run on 8.1 and I've got a nice trimmed SOE of that which behaves nicely in a VM so I haven't had to use 10 in anger yet. It did seem to get upset and leave a lot of gumph in the event logs when it couldn't phone home, particularly as it could resolve DNS.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #86 on: October 10, 2017, 04:39:42 pm »
DD-WRT is VERY old,
you should look into LEDA.
https://lede-project.org/
Switching to newer is what got me here in the first place :-DD :-DD   

Besides being another "new" spinoff, I saw where they were attempting to make it stable, what benefits does it offer?   I was looking to see if I could find some sort of matrix comparing the various flavors.   I've been running DD-WRT for some time and it's been rock solid.  I really don't do much with it beyond just using it. 

http://www.zdnet.com/article/dd-wrt-linux-firmware-comes-to-linksys-routers/

I forgot to add that if you use WRT, store your iptable scripts in the firewall, not the startup.  Lack of sleep.  Works fine. 
« Last Edit: October 10, 2017, 04:59:38 pm by joeqsmith »
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Offline marshallh

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #87 on: October 10, 2017, 08:18:14 pm »
My biggest gripe has been the auto-rebooting. I got Win10 first on my laptop, and noticed that it would even *wake itself out of hibernation* while in my backpack to start applying updates. Actually, it would spin and spin for an hour, then it would fail to hibernate again.

As a result, the battery would be totally flat when I powered it on the next day even though it started with 90% the previous day when I'd  put it into hibernation.

Win10 Enterprise was said to have policy options for disabling this completely ridiculous behavior. I picked up Win10 Enterprise for my desktop PC, set group policy, and figured my days of losing work were over... but not so!
It turns out that even in Enterprise, Windows actually ignores its own group policies set to disable auto rebooting. Eventually people found out how to hack the registry to work around this.

Thus began a 2 year game of cat and mouse where Microsoft would change the reboot policy behavior and schemes with every major update, breaking the fixes before it. My desktop PC would wake itself at 2am out of hibernation and burn 100% cpu applying updates, then never shut off. Eventually after enoguh corporate customers and important people reminded MS how idiotic they were, the problems lessened.


However, I still have to physically remove my laptop battery when it's stored in hibernation or I risk updates ruining it and melting the bottom of my backpack.


Other than that, W10 works well for me  :palm:  :phew:
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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #88 on: October 10, 2017, 09:03:15 pm »
My biggest gripe has been the auto-rebooting. I got Win10 first on my laptop, and noticed that it would even *wake itself out of hibernation* while in my backpack to start applying updates. Actually, it would spin and spin for an hour, then it would fail to hibernate again.

As a result, the battery would be totally flat when I powered it on the next day even though it started with 90% the previous day when I'd  put it into hibernation.

Win10 Enterprise was said to have policy options for disabling this completely ridiculous behavior. I picked up Win10 Enterprise for my desktop PC, set group policy, and figured my days of losing work were over... but not so!
It turns out that even in Enterprise, Windows actually ignores its own group policies set to disable auto rebooting. Eventually people found out how to hack the registry to work around this.

Thus began a 2 year game of cat and mouse where Microsoft would change the reboot policy behavior and schemes with every major update, breaking the fixes before it. My desktop PC would wake itself at 2am out of hibernation and burn 100% cpu applying updates, then never shut off. Eventually after enoguh corporate customers and important people reminded MS how idiotic they were, the problems lessened.


However, I still have to physically remove my laptop battery when it's stored in hibernation or I risk updates ruining it and melting the bottom of my backpack.


Other than that, W10 works well for me  :palm:  :phew:
Precisely this. At work we moved one of our PCs to Win10 before IT adopted it and it was a nightmare - I would say the problem is, as you mentioned, not auto-rebooting but auto powering up/wake up. I also had the same issue with flattened batteries out of nowhere only to find out the damn OS was doing the favor of leaving "All your files are exactly where you left them".

Since after IT adopted it and my notebook was "updated", I have noticed an improvement in this BS. Also, since the reboots are mandated by IT after applying updates (even on my previous beloved Win7 laptop), I can't distinguish anymore what is Win10 exclusive.

Oh well... Hopefully this gets sorted out by the time I am forced to make a decision.
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Offline Lightages

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Offline Syntax_Error

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #90 on: October 11, 2017, 12:20:17 am »
Makes me want to start a small business just for the sole purpose of being a 100% non-Microsoft shop. Just to prove it can be done.

I type this on my W10 laptop as the fan churns away while downloading monthly updates.
It's perfectly acceptable to not know something in the short term. To continue to not know over the long term is just laziness.
 

Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #91 on: October 11, 2017, 08:38:07 am »
 :-DD

i type this on my Debian laptop while finding the entire situation hilarious.
for the record, i'v been using linux since everybody was raving about that new o.s. called windows2k that had install cd's that could explode in your drive!!
 :scared:
 :palm:
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #92 on: October 11, 2017, 10:21:09 am »
As I mentioned, NI did or still does support LINUX but the last time I checked, it was very limited.  Similar to their 64-bit version. 

I used to run the Altera tools on a Sun.  I wonder if Xilinx, Altera, Lattice, fully support them now.   

MPLABX runs on it but it seems I ran into a problem with their hardware under LINUX.  That could have been me.   

Looking at my spectrum analyzer, they have an API that will work with Ubuntu 14.04 but not a turn key copy of their main software.

I have ran OpenOffice and would be willing to use it.  Last I looked, they did not have a flavor that supported Project. 

Any sort of CAD packages I looked at for LINIX were not usable.  Again, it has been a few years since I looked at it. 

If Windows went away, I am sure the tool providers would switch to some flavor of LINUX.  Maybe they are waiting to see if one flavor dominates over the others.   Anytime I have looked, the tool suppliers are VERY specific about what it would work on and no support.  It seemed more like throwing a bone to the academics groups that an all out effort to support a different OS then Windows.   Can't say I blame them.  Better to support the majority when it comes to business. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #93 on: October 11, 2017, 10:39:12 am »
PC ran all yesterday with no applications but Wireshark.  My second attempt has some impact but eventually they got through.  I even saw some data to Inktomi Corp  :-DD.  Maybe the whois database is out of date.    Akamai was another that was really bad and I started adding them as well.   Even Google and Yahoo seem to have a few hooks.   I let the new tables run through the night and nothing new came up.   :-+
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline jaromir

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #94 on: October 11, 2017, 12:51:59 pm »
As I mentioned, NI did or still does support LINUX but the last time I checked, it was very limited.  Similar to their 64-bit version. 
I used to run the Altera tools on a Sun.  I wonder if Xilinx, Altera, Lattice, fully support them now.   
MPLABX runs on it but it seems I ran into a problem with their hardware under LINUX.  That could have been me.   

No problems with tools from Altera, Xilinx and Lattice (yes, I tried all three of them) on Linux Mint 18 (I'd assume the same on Ubuntu).
Again, no problems with MPLABX. It's more snappy and usable on my two core sub-notebook with Linux than on my office-work computer with quad core i7 under windows. Hardware tools do work with no problem at all, at least the ones I tried - PicKit3, ICD3 and Curiosity boards.
 

Offline HoracioDos

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #95 on: October 11, 2017, 12:54:28 pm »
I have ran OpenOffice and would be willing to use it.  Last I looked, they did not have a flavor that supported Project. 
Linux lacks of good project management tools. You can download ProjectLibre. It's an old tool that was resurrected this year. Jan 2017 version works fine (Linux and Win). Interface is not pretty but features are ok. (You can open and save ms project files) https://sourceforge.net/projects/projectlibre/

I didn't find any good and free web based app to edit ms project files.

For an Office Suite, I like LibreOffice better.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 12:57:45 pm by HoracioDos »
 

Offline ElektroQuark

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #96 on: October 11, 2017, 01:00:31 pm »
Beware: it looks like the cumulative update of October shows the BSOD on some systems after reboot.

Offline HoracioDos

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #97 on: October 11, 2017, 01:10:14 pm »
Beware: it looks like the cumulative update of October shows the BSOD on some systems after reboot.
I applied fixes yesterday without any problem
 

Offline ElektroQuark

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #98 on: October 11, 2017, 01:11:30 pm »
So you have one of the "other systems".

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #99 on: October 11, 2017, 03:04:30 pm »
:-DD

i type this on my Debian laptop while finding the entire situation hilarious.
for the record, i'v been using linux since everybody was raving about that new o.s. called windows2k that had install cd's that could explode in your drive!!
 :scared:
 :palm:
That's hilarious, except that a lot of the major engineering software packages aren't available on Debian, or any other Linux flavour. Why do you think people like us put up with Microsoft? It's certainly not because they have never considered Linux.
 

Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #100 on: October 11, 2017, 05:14:39 pm »
well wine is pretty good,
not perfect but not bad.

what software are you running?
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #101 on: October 11, 2017, 05:33:18 pm »
well wine is pretty good,
not perfect but not bad.

what software are you running?
"Pretty good" isn't going to cut it if it's not supported by the developer. As soon as you start mucking about with Wine, you trade one pain for another.
 

Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #102 on: October 11, 2017, 06:08:21 pm »
when you consider that "windows" is not a product, but a line,
with lots of sub versions of library's etc. i dont see your argument being any different with a m$ o.s.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #103 on: October 11, 2017, 06:23:18 pm »
when you consider that "windows" is not a product, but a line,
with lots of sub versions of library's etc. i dont see your argument being any different with a m$ o.s.
Sure it is. If you use an OS that's supported by the developer - which typically means Windows 7 and beyond - and problem you find is their problem. If you start mucking with Wine, any problem becomes your problem, without guarantee of anything being fixed.

There is a reason people pay ridiculous amounts of money for things like FirePro and Quadro cards. In some generations, the hardware is even exactly the same as the consumer cards, but the support is completely different.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #104 on: October 11, 2017, 10:12:42 pm »
As I mentioned, NI did or still does support LINUX but the last time I checked, it was very limited.  Similar to their 64-bit version. 
I used to run the Altera tools on a Sun.  I wonder if Xilinx, Altera, Lattice, fully support them now.   
MPLABX runs on it but it seems I ran into a problem with their hardware under LINUX.  That could have been me.   

No problems with tools from Altera, Xilinx and Lattice (yes, I tried all three of them) on Linux Mint 18 (I'd assume the same on Ubuntu).
Again, no problems with MPLABX. It's more snappy and usable on my two core sub-notebook with Linux than on my office-work computer with quad core i7 under windows. Hardware tools do work with no problem at all, at least the ones I tried - PicKit3, ICD3 and Curiosity boards.

I looked up Quartus and it seems they only support some version of Redhat.  Same old same old.  Found a pretty good article where someone attempted to get it running under Ubuntu.   Strange as I would have thought Ubuntu would be the major player now days.    But again, I don't follow the GNU trend.    I also looked at LabVIEW.  It's really stripped and again tied to specific versions.   I would not mind changing to LINUX but it seems premature.  Maybe the lack of a common stable version keeps it from moving ahead.  I was using Slackware but started with LXI.  There were so many flavors, it seems like a nightmare for companies to try and support. 

I've been using Ubuntu (a few years  old now) and was pretty impressed how easy it was to get going compared with the Slackware days. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #105 on: October 11, 2017, 11:02:48 pm »
I looked up Quartus and it seems they only support some version of Redhat.  Same old same old.  Found a pretty good article where someone attempted to get it running under Ubuntu.   Strange as I would have thought Ubuntu would be the major player now days.    But again, I don't follow the GNU trend.    I also looked at LabVIEW.  It's really stripped and again tied to specific versions.   I would not mind changing to LINUX but it seems premature.  Maybe the lack of a common stable version keeps it from moving ahead.  I was using Slackware but started with LXI.  There were so many flavors, it seems like a nightmare for companies to try and support. 

I've been using Ubuntu (a few years  old now) and was pretty impressed how easy it was to get going compared with the Slackware days.
Currently, I see two problems with the various Linux flavours. Like you say, Ubuntu really is quite good out of the box. However, as we've established, the support from manufacturers in some areas isn't enough to make it a viable alternative. Professionals generally don't have the luxury of tinkering with things too much.

Another problem I see is that things quickly become murky when you can't use the GUI to set or install something. That seems to be a bit more common than it is in Windows. I'm not saying that's Windows always provides a streamlined experience, quite on the contrary, but there generally is some ancient tool available to do what you need to do. If you're not a Linux veteran, getting something done outside of the GUI often boils down to the fervent Googling and trying of what basically are magic spells. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't, and the how and why generally is rather unclear. To make matters worse: the GUI experience often is quite different from distro to distro, with the same distro even offering several desktop environments. The most consistent experience is the CLI, but that has the aforementioned problem of a very steep learning.

I'd really wish Linux would finally become a fully viable alternative to Microsoft and Apple products. For general day to day computer use, browsing and multimedia consumption, I think it's mostly there. Maybe 2018 will finally be the year of Linux?  ;D
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #106 on: October 11, 2017, 11:26:21 pm »
Maybe 2018 will finally be the year of Linux?  ;D
When I first saw LINUX, a friend brought it to the house and we were playing with Windows 95 and could not get the serial ports to work.  I was commenting about how serial ports have been around longer than I have and it how bad it was that a team at MS could not figure out how they worked.   Sadly, I ran into National Instruments screwing up the serial ports a few years ago and everything was done for them with the OS.  But I digress.   We were using HP UNIX workstations back then and he fired up LINIX and we launched X.  I was blown away.  It looked like the real deal.   Many years later, the same friend and I went to an electronic store and here on the shelves were boxes of LINUX distributions.  We thought, this is finally it.  They have it in retail stores now.  That's been at least 20 years ago.    :-DD   

I used to get those Infomagic CD sets with all the distributions on it.  No high speed internet in my life back then.  I would spend days going through them.  I was young and had time to play with such things.    LINUX is a young mans game.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #107 on: October 11, 2017, 11:38:22 pm »
The router block solution continues to look pretty good but I think the old router will need to be replaced.  It's pretty old so I am limited what DD-WRT I can run.  So no iprange support.  The iptable entries was getting very large and it was slowing down the old router.  To get around this, I decided to more loosely block the ranges with the mask.  Basically throwing out my access to some sites, somewhere.  Chances are good I would never hit one.

Basically, I run Wireshark with windows sitting idle.  Sort the IPs when I am done.  Lookup who owns them.  If MS or that multi-meadia BS, I add the range to a text file.  Copy paste into this app and copy paste the new script to the router. 

I keep waiting for Windows 10 to go into some sort of cripple mode as it knows it is on the net and sees the DNS return valid IPs.  It keeps trying and fails.  Non-stop.  It's not smart enough to know I am telling them to piss off. 

Graphics stolen from the internet, with my own twist to it.
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #108 on: October 11, 2017, 11:40:05 pm »
When I first saw LINUX, a friend brought it to the house and we were playing with Windows 95 and could not get the serial ports to work.  I was commenting about how serial ports have been around longer than I have and it how bad it was that a team at MS could not figure out how they worked.   Sadly, I ran into National Instruments screwing up the serial ports a few years ago and everything was done for them with the OS.  But I digress.   We were using HP UNIX workstations back then and he fired up LINIX and we launched X.  I was blown away.  It looked like the real deal.   Many years later, the same friend and I went to an electronic store and here on the shelves were boxes of LINUX distributions.  We thought, this is finally it.  They have it in retail stores now.  That's been at least 20 years ago.    :-DD   

I used to get those Infomagic CD sets with all the distributions on it.  No high speed internet in my life back then.  I would spend days going through them.  I was young and had time to play with such things.    LINUX is a young mans game.
That last remark seems to be the unfortunate truth for now, at least when it comes to desktop computing. If you employ a handful of pricey engineers, you don't want them to be experimenting with the software. It just needs to work, or alternatively you need to be able to call someone to make it work right at this moment. Not to mention the liability problems. Just imagine the fallout when  calculations turn out to be erroneous. Even if the software isn't at fault, not using a recommended setup will be a pain to explain.

The server side of things is obviously another story, as is embedded.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #109 on: October 11, 2017, 11:42:09 pm »
The router block solution continues to look pretty good but I think the old router will need to be replaced.  It's pretty old so I am limited what DD-WRT I can run.  So no iprange support.  The iptable entries was getting very large and it was slowing down the old router.  To get around this, I decided to more loosely block the ranges with the mask.  Basically throwing out my access to some sites, somewhere.  Chances are good I would never hit one.

Basically, I run Wireshark with windows sitting idle.  Sort the IPs when I am done.  Lookup who owns them.  If MS or that multi-meadia BS, I add the range to a text file.  Copy paste into this app and copy paste the new script to the router. 

I keep waiting for Windows 10 to go into some sort of cripple mode as it knows it is on the net and sees the DNS return valid IPs.  It keeps trying and fails.  Non-stop.  It's not smart enough to know I am telling them to piss off. 

Graphics stolen from the internet, with my own twist to it.
There are people maintaining these kinds of lists on the internet. I think there are some nice ones that use GitHub, so you can even synchronize them automatically if your setup allows it.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #110 on: October 12, 2017, 12:27:57 am »
There are people maintaining these kinds of lists on the internet. I think there are some nice ones that use GitHub, so you can even synchronize them automatically if your setup allows it.
I thing that's really the way to go and if I get a new router, I will look into it.  With this one, I am sort of stuck having to screw with the mask.   Narrowed it down to two of them.  Another Linksys and an ASUS.  Both are powerful enough to be a full blown PC and I am sure can handle what ever scripts I would toss into them.  I want to run with the old router for a while just to make sure I have not missed something stupid.   Those sneaky bastards at Microsoft may have other ways.   :-DD

How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #111 on: October 12, 2017, 12:38:35 am »
I thing that's really the way to go and if I get a new router, I will look into it.  With this one, I am sort of stuck having to screw with the mask.   Narrowed it down to two of them.  Another Linksys and an ASUS.  Both are powerful enough to be a full blown PC and I am sure can handle what ever scripts I would toss into them.  I want to run with the old router for a while just to make sure I have not missed something stupid.   Those sneaky bastards at Microsoft may have other ways.   :-DD
If you have some old hardware around, you could build your own. An x86 router is quite a different beast than one based on an ARM chip. You could use something like pfSense or the free editions of Sophos UTM or XG. That should allow you really fancy configuration options.
 
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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #112 on: October 12, 2017, 01:26:30 am »
I looked up Quartus and it seems they only support some version of Redhat.  Same old same old.
In general the "free" version of Redhat is called Fedora.

Found a pretty good article where someone attempted to get it running under Ubuntu.   Strange as I would have thought Ubuntu would be the major player now days.    But again, I don't follow the GNU trend.    I also looked at LabVIEW.  It's really stripped and again tied to specific versions.   I would not mind changing to LINUX but it seems premature.  Maybe the lack of a common stable version keeps it from moving ahead.  I was using Slackware but started with LXI.  There were so many flavors, it seems like a nightmare for companies to try and support.
In my experience, companies that need to support their software in Linux go where the money (= customers) is. Redhat is used by a good number of large customers for us, while at the same time we need to cater for the broad developers - thus Ubuntu/Mint come into the bandwagon as well. And yes, it is a nightmare if you try to support everything.

I've been using Ubuntu (a few years  old now) and was pretty impressed how easy it was to get going compared with the Slackware days.
I started as a Slackware guy as well, and it's been about 10~15 years that Linux started to be much easier to setup. 
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Offline rdl

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #113 on: October 12, 2017, 01:32:31 am »
I thing that's really the way to go and if I get a new router, I will look into it.
...
If you have some old hardware around, you could build your own. An x86 router is quite a different beast than one based on an ARM chip. You could use something like pfSense or the free editions of Sophos UTM or XG. That should allow you really fancy configuration options.

My last computer project was moving from WHS2011 to FreeNAS. That's pretty much working fine, so next I'm thinking about a pfSense Firewall/Router.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #114 on: October 12, 2017, 02:05:58 am »
If you have some old hardware around, you could build your own. An x86 router is quite a different beast than one based on an ARM chip. You could use something like pfSense or the free editions of Sophos UTM or XG. That should allow you really fancy configuration options.
Using the router for a repeater and needed the wireless.  I don't have a junk PC that would be good enough.     

In general the "free" version of Redhat is called Fedora.

I started as a Slackware guy as well, and it's been about 10~15 years that Linux started to be much easier to setup. 
That's hardcore.   :-DD   My wife had bought me a book called maximizing security or something like that.  I was heavy into Slackware at the time.  Countless hours spent reading that book and playing with network security.   Now days I am far too lazy and just want to program some scripts for the router and get on with life.  Difference is back then I was thinking about hacking from the outside, where now it is flipped and apparently the OS is the concern.   

Testing my wife's laptop now and all looks good.   The only problem I ran into is she has a MS email account and used MS for main search engine.   So I had to explain, no more.  :-DD 

Someone could sell a router that would pull down the latest IPs automatically.  Some sort of anti MS spy/update router for the average home user.   Just a thought.  Would need to make it very simple for the elderly to use. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online blueskull

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #115 on: October 12, 2017, 02:18:41 am »
For the trouble and cost on setting up a Linux firewall, why not just buy a Windows 2016 Essential? The completely legit version is only ~$500, and the less legit OEM version can be obtained for ~$120.
End user installing OEM Windows is illegal in US, but I highly doubt MS will ever know it unless you run a company and someone blows the whistle. It's perfectly legal in EU.
I don't think a cheap Linux box plus human labor can be cheaper than $120, maybe not even $500.
I guess you won't be gaming or doing real time audio works on your high security engineering station, so server kernel should be good enough (it is less preemptive than non server kernel).
 

Offline technix

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #116 on: October 12, 2017, 02:24:33 am »
I know that this limits my dev kit options, but this is one of the reasons I actively decline to use Windows. Updates are shoved down my throat when I was least expecting it. Windows always seemed to have some kind of updates pending and will reboot when I am not actively sitting in front of it, even when there is an ongoing task like long time datalogging happening. I almost never am able to collect a night worth of data without an update interrupting me. This is not even talking about updates breaking things, forcing reinstallations of some apps. If you recently bought or upgraded a computer, you don't even get the option to run an older Windows like Windows 7 unless you pony up a lot of $$$ for an enterprise license.

It is just too sad that a few tool vendors adamantly refuse to provide their tools for another operating system, and the open source community failed to catch up in some cases. (I am making a jab at Cypress PSoC here.) On the operating system end, it is lucky that high quality desktop Linux distributions exist, and Hackintosh is a thing.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #117 on: October 12, 2017, 02:29:37 am »
Quote
why not just buy a Windows 2016 Essential
Lack of trust.   I know the router will block it.  Funny, I went to look it up on the MS website too see how it compares ... Oh yea....  :-DD 


How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online blueskull

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #118 on: October 12, 2017, 02:37:13 am »
If you recently bought or upgraded a computer, you don't even get the option to run an older Windows like Windows 7 unless you pony up a lot of $$$ for an enterprise license.

Download Win10 ISO, extract essential drivers from WIM, patch them to Win7 ISO and there you go.

I am making a jab at Cypress PSoC here.

Open source community doesn't like to write EDA tools (place & route & bitstream, aka FPGA stuff). Yosys is probably the only modern exception.
 

Offline rdl

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #119 on: October 12, 2017, 04:39:30 am »
I must be doing something wrong. I can't find the OEM Windows Server 2016 Essentials for less than $389.
 

Online blueskull

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #120 on: October 12, 2017, 04:45:31 am »
I must be doing something wrong. I can't find the OEM Windows Server 2016 Essentials for less than $389.

Keyword: essential.
 

Offline rdl

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #121 on: October 12, 2017, 05:11:53 am »
That's what I looked for.

https://www.google.com/search?q=OEM+Windows+Server+2016+Essential

Amazon, Microsoft, Newegg, etc. all around $390

You have a link for cheaper?

 

Online blueskull

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #122 on: October 12, 2017, 05:46:29 am »
That's what I looked for.

https://www.google.com/search?q=OEM+Windows+Server+2016+Essential

Amazon, Microsoft, Newegg, etc. all around $390

You have a link for cheaper?

This: https://softwarelicense4u.com/windows-server-2016-essentials?gclid=CjwKCAjwgvfOBRB7EiwAeP7eho8axPYB5oIeWvnWTYoEUviltuYsMNuVZKMVMy2QXpAs6CdVPUOfAhoCi_sQAvD_BwE

This is a Dutch company, selling or using OEM or volume license keys in US may be illegal, but it is legal in the EU.
 

Offline jaromir

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #123 on: October 12, 2017, 06:31:39 am »
I looked up Quartus and it seems they only support some version of Redhat.  Same old same old.  Found a pretty good article where someone attempted to get it running under Ubuntu.
I've been using Ubuntu (a few years  old now) and was pretty impressed how easy it was to get going compared with the Slackware days.

I think there is not much of deal with software companies actively supporting only one or two major distributions - for most of the cases you can run the software on anything other, perhaps with minor setup. Linux world seems to be very scattered and diverse, but those are just colorful covers of the same principle.
RH was the "standard" Linux distribution for big companies and universities, that's why Altera supports it. But running it under Ubuntu and Ubuntu-alike distributions is just matter of unpacking the installer and running it manually. I can't remember exact details (it was two years ago), but it took a minute of googling while downloading the installer.

As Windows user, I was watching the Linux world for something like 15 years and made transition few years ago, as soon as I was able to locate all Linux tools I need for what I do (and it was no-go route for me before), so I understand your hesitation.
 

Offline rdl

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #124 on: October 12, 2017, 07:00:28 am »
...
This is a Dutch company, selling or using OEM or volume license keys in US may be illegal, but it is legal in the EU.

OEM/Volume license quibbles aside, my only reservation would be that Microsoft usually region locks their license codes.
 

Online blueskull

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #125 on: October 12, 2017, 07:04:29 am »
...
This is a Dutch company, selling or using OEM or volume license keys in US may be illegal, but it is legal in the EU.

OEM/Volume license quibbles aside, my only reservation would be that Microsoft usually region locks their license codes.

If they accept USD and offer guaranteed working or refund, I see no reason the keys won't activate.
Also, softwarelicense4u has been around for quite a while.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #126 on: October 12, 2017, 08:47:32 am »
For the trouble and cost on setting up a Linux firewall, why not just buy a Windows 2016 Essential? The completely legit version is only ~$500, and the less legit OEM version can be obtained for ~$120.
End user installing OEM Windows is illegal in US, but I highly doubt MS will ever know it unless you run a company and someone blows the whistle. It's perfectly legal in EU.
I don't think a cheap Linux box plus human labor can be cheaper than $120, maybe not even $500.
I guess you won't be gaming or doing real time audio works on your high security engineering station, so server kernel should be good enough (it is less preemptive than non server kernel).
Why would you spend hundreds of dollars if excellent free products are available? You need to set things up in both cases and a firewall is one of those cases I think Linux has an edge, especially if a developer tailored the distro specifically to the purpose.

Obviously, the point was put a non Microsoft barrier between a Windows computer and the internet, so going for a Microsoft firewall isn't getting you anywhere in that regard either.
 

Offline rdl

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #127 on: October 12, 2017, 09:16:16 am »
I think the idea is to get the new version of Windows but without all the extra garbage that Windows 10 is burdened with. That would probably be worth $120 to a lot of people. I wonder how well it would play with games. However, as I said, region locking could be an issue. True or not I don't know, but I've heard of people not being able to get Windows updates because of using a version outside it's intended region.
 

Online blueskull

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #128 on: October 12, 2017, 09:17:03 am »
Obviously, the point was put a non Microsoft barrier between a Windows computer and the internet, so going for a Microsoft firewall isn't getting you anywhere in that regard either.

I mean to use Win2016 as a desktop OS and assume MS is not spying server OSes.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #129 on: October 12, 2017, 09:27:11 am »
I mean to use Win2016 as a desktop OS and assume MS is not spying server OSes.
Sorry, I misunderstood. It would be a huge disaster for Microsoft if they'd be caught doing that and the chances of discovery aren't slim with a lot of competent people working with the server versions, so I don't think they'd risk it.
 

Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #130 on: October 12, 2017, 09:58:06 am »
Someone could sell a router that would pull down the latest IPs automatically.  Some sort of anti MS spy/update router for the average home user.   Just a thought.  Would need to make it very simple for the elderly to use.

mine can do that,
i have it downloading addblock lists.
https://www.richud.com/wiki/DGND3700_V1_Transmission_Firmware

i would be very surprised if LEDA does not have a plugin to do it too.
 

Offline HoracioDos

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #131 on: October 12, 2017, 11:10:59 am »
I've been using Ubuntu (a few years  old now) and was pretty impressed how easy it was to get going compared with the Slackware days.
Ubuntu dropped it's own Unity Desktop and returned to Gnome this year. 18.04 LTS will be very interesting
 

Offline HoracioDos

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #132 on: October 12, 2017, 11:55:33 am »
All this thread made me want to create a virtualbox VM with Windows 7 Home Basic and test it under Linux Mint 18.2 Cinnamon edition.

I'm amazed with the results. My notebook is an Asus I5 3rd gen with 8Gb ram and 512GB Samsung SSD. It's not brand new but it still does the job.

VM is 2Gb RAM, 128Mb video memory and 25Gb Storage. I applied SP1 and more than 200 individual fixes through Windows Update. Networking is working through a wifi bridged adapter. Also installed the Extension Pack to get USB2 and USB3 support.

I didn't test USB connection and everything is working really fast. I installed a few small apps like LtSpice, Brymen 257 DMM logger, Korad 3005P PSU and Feeltech 3200 DSG software among others. I'll try some SDR software as soon as I can.

Win7 VM doesn't need to much resources if someone needs to run small apps and it's completely doable.
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #133 on: October 12, 2017, 12:10:49 pm »
All this thread made me want to create a virtualbox VM with Windows 7 Home Basic and test it under Linux Mint 18.2 Cinnamon edition.

I'm amazed with the results. My notebook is an Asus I5 3rd gen with 8Gb ram and 512GB Samsung SSD. It's not brand new but it still does the job.

VM is 2Gb RAM, 128Mb video memory and 25Gb Storage. I applied SP1 and more than 200 individual fixes through Windows Update. Networking is working through a wifi bridged adapter. Also installed the Extension Pack to get USB2 and USB3 support.

I didn't test USB connection and everything is working really fast. I installed a few small apps like LtSpice, Brymen 257 DMM logger, Korad 3005P PSU and Feeltech 3200 DSG software among others. I'll try some SDR software as soon as I can.

Win7 VM doesn't need to much resources if someone needs to run small apps and it's completely doable.
Windows 10 is actually more frugal with resources than Windows 8, and Window 8 is more frugal than 7. They're basically the same OS tweaked and evolved, with a fairly radically different GUI poured on top.
 

Offline HoracioDos

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #134 on: October 12, 2017, 12:22:10 pm »
Windows 10 is actually more frugal with resources than Windows 8, and Window 8 is more frugal than 7. They're basically the same OS tweaked and evolved, with a fairly radically different GUI poured on top.
Good to know.  :-+ I always thought quite the opposite. When I switched from Win7 to Win10 my notebook wasn't as fast as it used to be. To be clear, you are saying it would be better to create a Win10 VM instead of Win7 VM
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #135 on: October 12, 2017, 12:33:47 pm »
Good to know.  :-+ I always thought quite the opposite. When I switched from Win7 to Win10 my notebook wasn't as fast as it used to be. To be clear, you are saying it would be better to create a Win10 VM instead of Win7 VM
Better or worse is a qualification that depends on a lot of things. However, your comment seemed to imply that the VM was quick thanks to Windows 7, but 8.x or 10 shouldn't perform much worse. In theory Windows 10 should perform better, but in practice that difference is probably minute. Other properties of the OS have a much more profound impact on the experience and should therefore be the deciding factors.

Personally, I think Windows 8 strikes a nice balance between the two. It has quite a few of the optimizations of Windows 10, while lacking the nasty new features. If only people could look past the tiles  ::)
 
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Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #136 on: October 12, 2017, 12:40:32 pm »
Obviously, the point was put a non Microsoft barrier between a Windows computer and the internet, so going for a Microsoft firewall isn't getting you anywhere in that regard either.

I mean to use Win2016 as a desktop OS and assume MS is not spying server OSes.

i would assume the oposite, there is both big money and politics in corporate espionage.
it would be far more subtle than a keybuffer relay though.
 

Online bd139

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #137 on: October 12, 2017, 12:46:52 pm »
Windows Server 2016 has telemetry. The attack surface for 2016 is pretty huge actually. We're not rolling it out yet, if ever. There's convergence before EOL of 2012 R2 as we port everything off .Net and into various other bits of tech and onto Linux.

With respect to windows 8, windows 8.1 with classic start was actually pretty good. I think that was the last one I really trusted and was productive on.

Also, Microsoft command line developer tools now ship with telemetry! Fucking joke.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #138 on: October 12, 2017, 12:51:29 pm »
Windows Server 2016 has telemetry. The attack surface for 2016 is pretty huge actually. We're not rolling it out yet, if ever. There's convergence before EOL of 2012 R2 as we port everything off .Net and into various other bits of tech and onto Linux.

With respect to windows 8, windows 8.1 with classic start was actually pretty good. I think that was the last one I really trusted and was productive on.

Also, Microsoft command line developer tools now ship with telemetry! Fucking joke.
You mean the telemetry api, I presume?
 

Online bd139

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #139 on: October 12, 2017, 01:06:10 pm »
No. The command line tools and IDE call home now.
 

Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #140 on: October 12, 2017, 01:52:27 pm »
so they know you typed "ls" ?
paranoid scum need to be eliminated as terrorists.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #141 on: October 12, 2017, 01:57:57 pm »
No. The command line tools and IDE call home now.
They can call home, as can pretty much everything in 10, but don't if telemetry is disabled. Then it's just the api that's present, but doesn't get called.

If it were any other way, it would be world headlines.
 

Online bd139

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #142 on: October 12, 2017, 02:03:53 pm »
You can't turn it off. You can reduce it.

Forbes, BBC, all sorts have already covered it.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/08/windows-10-microsoft-blatantly-disregards-user-choice-and-privacy-deep-dive

Also for example, if you have cortana enabled, it will read and send your private skype conversations to MSFT as well.

The whole thing is a shitstorm. All it's going to take is for them to piss off one wrong person.

As for development tools, read this: https://github.com/dotnet/cli/issues/3093
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 02:05:42 pm by bd139 »
 

Offline eugenenine

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #143 on: October 12, 2017, 02:23:26 pm »
Windows 10 is actually more frugal with resources than Windows 8, and Window 8 is more frugal than 7. They're basically the same OS tweaked and evolved, with a fairly radically different GUI poured on top.
Good to know.  :-+ I always thought quite the opposite. When I switched from Win7 to Win10 my notebook wasn't as fast as it used to be. To be clear, you are saying it would be better to create a Win10 VM instead of Win7 VM

My daughter's laptop got the windows 10 'upgrade' from windows 7.  30 minutes into a reboot I turned it off and bought her a new laptop, 10 was that bad.  I formatted the drive and it boots slackware in about 30 seconds.
 

Offline eugenenine

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #144 on: October 12, 2017, 02:44:33 pm »
You can't turn it off. You can reduce it.

Forbes, BBC, all sorts have already covered it.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/08/windows-10-microsoft-blatantly-disregards-user-choice-and-privacy-deep-dive

Also for example, if you have cortana enabled, it will read and send your private skype conversations to MSFT as well.

The whole thing is a shitstorm. All it's going to take is for them to piss off one wrong person.

As for development tools, read this: https://github.com/dotnet/cli/issues/3093

" I suspect many will not want to install .NET core for this reason, which is a shame because .NET core is otherwise cool"

Coming from a sysadmin background .net anything is not cool.  There were always monthly patches for .net and these patches do break compatibility with people's .net code.  Not to mention the resource hog .net is.
 

Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #145 on: October 12, 2017, 02:58:34 pm »
did you read the comments on that link??

they also put spyware in visual studio.
 

Online bd139

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #146 on: October 12, 2017, 03:44:55 pm »
Coming from a sysadmin background .net anything is not cool.  There were always monthly patches for .net and these patches do break compatibility with people's .net code.  Not to mention the resource hog .net is.

Rarely do they break compat. That's one of the things that's good. Patches do come about; that happens with all complex software.

From a technology standpoint it's pretty good. We were serving up to 15,000 requests/second from 8 front end web machines running about 5 million lines of horribly complex C# written by the lowest bidder talking to hundreds of web services all over the internet and internally (all also running .Net) and SQL Server databases. We also have desktop apps in it as well. Speed and resources are nowhere near the problems with it.

The problems are with the tooling, general friction getting simple shit done, privacy, lack of support and licensing costs. Which is why it's heading in the direction of other tech for us.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 03:47:29 pm by bd139 »
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #147 on: October 12, 2017, 04:27:38 pm »
Someone could sell a router that would pull down the latest IPs automatically.  Some sort of anti MS spy/update router for the average home user.   Just a thought.  Would need to make it very simple for the elderly to use.

mine can do that,
i have it downloading addblock lists.
https://www.richud.com/wiki/DGND3700_V1_Transmission_Firmware

i would be very surprised if LEDA does not have a plugin to do it too.

I suspect most modern routers can do pretty much anything but I think you way overestimate the capabilities of the elderly.  I know of people still using AOL.  I have a friend who's old XP PC finally gave out and we "upgraded" them to Windows 7.  Talk about a steep learning curve.   I don't think companies realize when their managers/marketing and developers change anything that has been a standard for years, just how it effects this group of people who just expect their PCs to work the same way they have for the last X years.  Try explaining to your grandma why MS decided to move all the menus in Word let alone telling them they need to reflash their router.   :-DD
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #148 on: October 12, 2017, 04:35:29 pm »
the elderly dont like change, all this new fangled shit with an inverted trackball you shove around.

they want to boot to a command line and type:
Quote
CD WORD
WORD.EXE

and be able to just switch it off when they are done.
dont forget, the elderly like to unplug everything when not in use too.
 >:D
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #149 on: October 12, 2017, 05:14:21 pm »
the elderly dont like change, all this new fangled shit with an inverted trackball you shove around.

they want to boot to a command line and type:
Quote
CD WORD
WORD.EXE

and be able to just switch it off when they are done.
dont forget, the elderly like to unplug everything when not in use too.
 >:D

If you're lucky you may join the ranks soon enough.   I'm just saying that having a product that would be easy for the average person to use may do well.  I am not aware of a turn key solution today that you can just plug in and forget about it.  I doubt the average person will ever attempt to reflash a router even if all the hard work has been done for them already.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline HoracioDos

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #150 on: October 12, 2017, 05:59:33 pm »
My daughter's laptop got the windows 10 'upgrade' from windows 7.  30 minutes into a reboot I turned it off and bought her a new laptop, 10 was that bad.  I formatted the drive and it boots slackware in about 30 seconds.

This morning I created a new VM with Windows 8.1 Pro under linux again to test it and I hated. It was not quick enough like win7 and I don't find a word to describe such UI. That's why I went from Win7 to Win10 in the first place. Programmers should be still asking for forgiveness. I'll leave the previous Win7 VM that I created yesterday. Almost perfect!
 

Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #151 on: October 12, 2017, 06:23:48 pm »
lol
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/11/outlook_smime_bug/

same old excuse - whenever they get caught it was a "bug"
yes, in some way it was...... just not the way they meant!  |O
 

Online bd139

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #152 on: October 12, 2017, 06:56:38 pm »
That’s just total shit. How did they fuck it up that bad?
 

Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #153 on: October 12, 2017, 07:34:03 pm »
that's my point, the fuckup was getting caught!!
 

Offline eugenenine

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #154 on: October 12, 2017, 07:45:20 pm »
Coming from a sysadmin background .net anything is not cool.  There were always monthly patches for .net and these patches do break compatibility with people's .net code.  Not to mention the resource hog .net is.

Rarely do they break compat. That's one of the things that's good. Patches do come about; that happens with all complex software.


Granted its been a few years since I was in that role but Windows core OS patches rarely broke compatibility but .NET patches did all the time, the devs were always having to change code after a .net patch.
 

Offline eugenenine

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #155 on: October 12, 2017, 07:49:19 pm »
the elderly dont like change, all this new fangled shit with an inverted trackball you shove around.

they want to boot to a command line and type:
Quote
CD WORD
WORD.EXE

 >:D

Thats why I run Slackware.

Wait, does that make me elderly?
 :-//
 

Online bd139

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #156 on: October 12, 2017, 07:54:47 pm »
CentOS here. I did a bit of slack in the past. Anyone remember Bob?

lol
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/11/outlook_smime_bug/

same old excuse - whenever they get caught it was a "bug"
yes, in some way it was...... just not the way they meant!  |O

I worked for a defence contractor with UK CESG spooks dealing with the network side of things. They’d be pissed about this too. I think it was a genuine fuck up. The thing you have to worry about is the other actors who did notice it but chose not to disclose it or sold it on the darknet markets.

Then again perhaps that’s why they’re all still using Lotus Notes :)


Coming from a sysadmin background .net anything is not cool.  There were always monthly patches for .net and these patches do break compatibility with people's .net code.  Not to mention the resource hog .net is.

Rarely do they break compat. That's one of the things that's good. Patches do come about; that happens with all complex software.


Granted its been a few years since I was in that role but Windows core OS patches rarely broke compatibility but .NET patches did all the time, the devs were always having to change code after a .net patch.

There was only one big breaking change that I remember in the last 15 years which required a code change and that was because the HashTable algorithm was flawed and had an O(N^2) complexity which meant you could DoS attack the server with a crafted form post. If they had to change code lots then the dev team was shit :)
 

Offline eugenenine

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #157 on: October 12, 2017, 08:01:18 pm »
I moved into ITrisk in 2012 so it would have been before that.  Was multiple dev teams at different companies prior, they all hated when we did .net patches because they had to change things.
 

Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #158 on: October 14, 2017, 11:36:29 am »
 

Online bd139

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #159 on: October 14, 2017, 12:10:16 pm »
Oh FFS another one!
 

Offline BrianHG

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #160 on: October 14, 2017, 01:18:28 pm »
What I would like to find is a tool Win10 which can wrap around my network hardware driver.  Let win10 think I don't have any network devices at all.  And, have a modified Firefox, and maybe 1 or 2 other remote network viewing tools with their own private internal link directly to those wrapped network drivers with a third party separate network protocol driver not made by M$.  I don't mind loosing all Win10 network functionality for privacy just to allow me to use my EDA tools in private uninterrupted leisure.

The added benefit will also be adobe acrobat not blabbing to adobe behind my back as well as many other unnecessary network crap.

I am well aware of how many software items will no longer function as today they require online access.

But, except for exploits within firefox, nothing else should be able to sen or get anything online.
__________
BrianHG.
 

Online bd139

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #161 on: October 14, 2017, 01:31:20 pm »
Sounds like you need to run windows in a virtual machine on a Linux box. Use the EDA tools on the VM and all the communication stuff on the host machine.
 

Offline BrianHG

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #162 on: October 14, 2017, 01:46:31 pm »
Sounds like you need to run windows in a virtual machine on a Linux box. Use the EDA tools on the VM and all the communication stuff on the host machine.

I wont get the gaming performance of my 1080ti then.

The idea is to F--- M$ knowledge of any connected networks right down to the kernel level.  Then, only for the Win apps I want, allow them to use my private software network driver.
I need a solution I can distribute and install on any existing setup Win10 machine out there.
It needs to be a solution that there is nothing M$ can work around or do anything about.
__________
BrianHG.
 

Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #163 on: October 14, 2017, 02:16:51 pm »
has anybody tried just patching all the i.p. addresses to 127.0.0.1 in the windows system??
 

Online bd139

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #164 on: October 14, 2017, 03:56:12 pm »
Doesn't work. It uses it's own DNS resolution system which is in the guise of "malware prevention" to stop DNS hijackers from preventing windows updates and windows defender updates.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #165 on: October 14, 2017, 04:07:04 pm »
I've continued running the router.  The only change was I enabled the known CDNs for now.  I thought originally it was the tables were too large and complex for the old router, causing some speed problems.  It appears this was not the case and it  was caused from not using the CDNs.
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Offline rdl

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #166 on: October 14, 2017, 04:10:11 pm »
I've seen estimates that Microsoft may have as many as half a million internet connections available to use. It seems like trying to stop their spying by blockading would be useless.
 

Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #167 on: October 14, 2017, 04:17:52 pm »
maybe you can block port numbers instead?
is m$ using 80/81 or something else?
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #168 on: October 14, 2017, 04:31:39 pm »
maybe you can block port numbers instead?
is m$ using 80/81 or something else?

WTF would they use 81 for?

If they used a unique port, it'd just be blocked, and.. they'd move to using a port you can't arbitrarily block.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #169 on: October 14, 2017, 04:55:01 pm »
I had started out blocking ports.  They are fine with only these open. 

So blocking every port but 53, 80 and 443 is not good enough.  I need a better router. 

Where's that $450 stripped version of Windows 10 I am hearing about???

I have had Wireshark running and so far nothing new has shown up in the last few days.  For sure you would not want to block individual IPs.   As you can see, I was going for entire ranges (and then some).   My concern is with Microsoft using Akamai's CDM services rather than missing another range owned by Microsoft.  All I can do is monitor it at this point and see if something changes.   
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Offline BrianHG

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #170 on: October 14, 2017, 05:30:14 pm »
I guess shutting down TCPIP-v4&v6.sys, having your own private one in it's place which refuses M$ would also work.

I wonder if something like PeerBlock, with the right table of IP's & ports would do it?
http://peerblock.en.lo4d.com/details

It supposed to intercept right in-between Windows and it's TCPIP.sys

I use it on win7 and it blocks anything I want, coming in or going out.
You can make custom block lists, and ports, enable and disable them in real time...
They claim Win10 support.  However, it loads after windows boots, which means there is a small window of opportunity for windows to contact M$.
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #171 on: October 14, 2017, 07:16:31 pm »
I wonder how many third party tools like this broke (or worse report they work and do nothing)  after the recent "updates".   Blocking at the router at least decouples you from the OS.  Not aware of a MS patch that will reFLASH the router, yet anyway.   :-DD
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Online BradC

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #172 on: October 14, 2017, 11:53:13 pm »
Sounds like you need to run windows in a virtual machine on a Linux box. Use the EDA tools on the VM and all the communication stuff on the host machine.

I wont get the gaming performance of my 1080ti then.

Pass it through to the VM.

I understand what you are asking but unless you want to get your hands dirty and learn to write Windows device drivers (and that's a nasty rabbit hole to crawl down), a VM or external firewall is the way to do what you want to do.
 

Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #173 on: October 15, 2017, 12:27:53 am »
I actually WANT to like windows 10, because 8 was so terrible, but the more I have to work with 10 the more I hate it and the more I'm glad I switched to Linux for my own stuff.

I just hate how the dialogs are so big and flat and almost feel like they are often missing options.  Everything takes up too much space, there's too much white, it's just ugly and annoying to work with.  It also has so many weird quirks and because everything is so dumbed down it's hard to find any way to troubleshoot stuff.  For example I had to troubleshoot a mic issue for a family member.  Just trying to find a basic sound recorder program was like pulling teeth.  The standard start menu is like completely useless, there's no "accessories" folders or anything, everything is just jumbled up together.  Managed to found a recording app but it looks like it was coded by a 3 year old. It has like no features.  I could not even tell if it was recording or not.  Long story short one weird thing about this mic issue is that in the sound properties (after digging a lot to try to even find them) it showed that the mic was picking up sound, it was also set to default, and the only recording device, yet no other programs worked.  I found another section where you have to give permission on a per app bassis, but you were limited by what is in the list.  I had installed Audacity for troubleshooting since that recorder app was garbage, but it did not show up in the list.

Overall I just found the entire experience unintuitive and frustrating.  Never did figure out the issue and just gave up.  On that same person's computer the printer also randomly stopped working. They are pushing all these forced updates and it just breaks everything.
 
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Offline amspire

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #174 on: October 15, 2017, 02:33:41 am »
I actually WANT to like windows 10, because 8 was so terrible, but the more I have to work with 10 the more I hate it and the more I'm glad I switched to Linux for my own stuff.
They are all frustrating.

I love Linux, but I have never once been able to successfully been able to do a version upgrade to an Ubuntu derivative without a non-working result. Quite often, the GUI never starts properly after updating. I am sure it works for some people - particularly if they are only using standard applications, but I now have to just clean install for a version upgrade. If you do not update the Linux versions, it usually means you cannot run the latest versions of applications unless you compile them yourself. That could mean you are not getting the latest security updates and bug fixes for applications.

For this reason, I love the idea of the rolling updates - like Arch Linux derivatives - but at some point, the rolling updates will break things. No good for ordinary users. For example, a year or two ago, Samba (Windows network file sharing in Linux) decided to remove functionality from one of their services because they really wanted you to be using a different service to do that job. All of a sudden, perfectly working Windows shares stopped working.

I did suspect that Windows 10 was going to be a 100% rolling update, but now we have discovered that Windows 10 is actually a new Windows version every year. This year, it is TWO new versions (the Fall Creators Edition is coming out this Tuesday I think). I like using WSUSoffline so I can update PC's offline, but with Windows 10, the updates seem to be largely combined in 12 massive files (many 1Gbyte in size), so downloading the latest Windows 10 updates for 32 and 64 bit involves 5 to 10GBytes of downloads.

Why can't Microsoft sell us what we really want - a stable and lean OS that can run programs? Have a much cleaner and faster update process - say like Arch Linux's Pacman. It would be great to have a Windows OS that can be simply set to never talk to anyone on its own accord. I would pay real money for that, but just once. Microsoft no longer want to tolerate users who pay them $100 for an OS and then never give them anything for the next 10 years.

I am still using Windows 8.1. It is better then Windows 7 as long as you configure it right so I don't have to use Metro (except for 1 window). If you like the Windows 7 interface, then the Windows 8.1 desktop is mostly the same, but the differences mostly improve it. I could not use Windows 8.1 "out of the box".  Windows 8.1 will be supported until Jan 2023, but Microsoft have killed my ability to recommend it as they will end non-security updates next year on current Intel processors. 8.1 has over 5 years of life. They are crippling it!  |O

Just as a guide, here are the current sizes of the WSUSoffline updates (for Win32 and Win64 together):

Windows 7: 5.9Gbytes
Windows 8.1: 7.1Gbytes
Windows 10: 12.2Gbytes

The Windows 7 updates are for 8 years of updates.
The Windows 10 updates are for just over 2 years of updates.

Most of the Windows 10 updates is for functionality that most of us do not need or want.


« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 04:15:19 am by amspire »
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #175 on: October 15, 2017, 03:31:30 am »
I assume this is a new feature added to the 1703 that was requested by the masses.   Often now when starting the OS, it kicks off their store.  It's never done this the year prior to the 1703 forced upgrade so I assume it is new.   What's interesting is they start out trying to talk to their servers and all I get is a stupid spinner.   As I continued to monitor the traffic, they seem to switch to Akamai's and get the store to show a LinkedIn ad.   

I left the store application open and changed the router tables to include this entire block.  I then tried to access the store and after several minutes it fails.  So it does appear they will use the CDM for a backup.  Shutting down this block from Akamai did not seem to effect anything else, so far.   
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Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #176 on: October 15, 2017, 03:37:26 am »
I actually WANT to like windows 10, because 8 was so terrible, but the more I have to work with 10 the more I hate it and the more I'm glad I switched to Linux for my own stuff.
They are all frustrating.

I love Linux, but I have never once been able to successfully been ably to do a version upgrade to an Ubuntu derivative without a non-working result. Quite often, the GUI never starts properly after updating. I am sure it works for some people - particularly if they are only using standard applications, but I now have to just clean install for a version upgrade. If you do not update the Linux versions, it usually means you cannot run the latest versions of applications unless you compile them yourself. That could mean you are not getting the latest security updates and bug fixes for applications.

For this reason, I love the idea of the rolling updates - like Arch Linux derivatives - but at some point, the rolling updates will break things. No good for ordinary users. For example, a year or two ago, Samba (Windows network file sharing in Linux) decided to remove functionality from one of their services because they really wanted you to be using a different service to do that job. All of a sudden, perfectly working Windows shares stopped working.

I did suspect that Windows 10 was going to be a 100% rolling update, but now we have discovered that Windows 10 is actually a new Windows version every year. This year, it is TWO new versions (the Fall Creators Edition is coming out this Tuesday I think). I like using WSUSoffline so I can update PC's offline, but with Windows 10, the updates seem to be largely combined in 12 massive files (many 1Gbyte in size), so downloading the latest Windows 10 updates for 32 and 64 bit involves 5 to 10GBytes of downloads.

Why can't Microsoft sell us what we really want - a stable and lean OS that can run programs? Have a much cleaner and faster update process - say like Arch Linux's Pacman. It would be great to have a Windows OS that can be simply set to never talk to anyone on its own accord. I would pay real money for that, but just once. Microsoft no longer want to tolerate users who pay them $100 for an OS and then never give them anything for the next 10 years.

I am still using Windows 8.1. It is better then Windows 7 as long as you configure it right so I don't have to use Metro (except for 1 window). If you like the Windows 7 interface, then the Windows 8.1 desktop is mostly the same, but the differences mostly improve it. I could not use Windows 8.1 "out of the box".  Windows 8.1 will be supported until Jan 2023, but Microsoft have killed my ability to recommend it as they will end non-security updates next year on current Intel processors. 8.1 has over 5 years of life. They are crippling it!  |O

Just as a guide, here are the current sizes of the WSUSoffline updates (for Win32 and Win64 together):

Windows 7: 5.9Gbytes
Windows 8.1: 7.1Gbytes
Windows 10: 12.2Gbytes

The Windows 7 updates are for 8 years of updates.
The Windows 10 updates are for just over 2 years of updates.

Most of the Windows 10 updates is for functionality that most of us do not need or want.

Yeah Linux has it's issues too, one thing that frustrates me the most about it is the permission system especially over networks, it's really not scalable if you want multiple users to be able to have different permission levels.  Ex: I can't imagine trying to manage it in a corporate environment.   That and I hate how UID/GIDs have to match across all systems, that is the stupidest thing. It does not even care about the username/password. There's ways to set it up differently but it's very convoluted and I could not imagine having to go through all those steps on each and every machine, if there was a lot to do. I guess you could script it though... that's where Linux shines, it's easier to automate stuff.

As far as windows 10 rolling updates I can't imagine how messy that is going to get over the years.  Patches on top of patches on top of patches etc... Well, I guess even new releases are basically that. :P   I don't understand how their OSes are so bloated though.  Like how do you possibly have THAT much more code every time without really having anything to show for it?  It's crazy.   Heck, they even remove stuff.  Like newer versions of windows don't have telnet, and other simple apps like that.  Super annoying.  You can install it, but if I'm troubleshooting something on a computer that's not mine, it's nice if it's already on there.
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #177 on: October 15, 2017, 06:54:32 am »
Remember Win10 also will use your internet connection as part of a form of bittorrent network to distribute patches and updates ( and who knows what else as well either way) to other machines. Thus best to say the network connection is metered, as that does turn it down a lot.
 

Offline Buriedcode

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #178 on: October 15, 2017, 02:21:53 pm »
Remember Win10 also will use your internet connection as part of a form of bittorrent network to distribute patches and updates ( and who knows what else as well either way) to other machines. Thus best to say the network connection is metered, as that does turn it down a lot.

You can turn this off, although I do believe it is on by default.  Like so many annoying things about windows 10, you do have some control over them, you just have to go through the settings to turn off what you don't want/need.  Ads, 'game recommendations', error reporting etc.. can all be turned off, the settings for which are not hidden away.

Whilst I still prefer windows 7 - because as we get older we become more resistant to change - I don't like the idea of running an OS that no longer has support, and still has published vulnerabilities that will never be patched. Look at the regular wave of breaches for XP systems (that still has a significant market share in the UK  :palm: - it won't be long before it could happen to 7/8.1

Give it a year, and I'm sure there will be more information about customizing ones OS, optimizing memory usage and size making it more tolerable.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #179 on: October 15, 2017, 03:12:57 pm »
Remember Win10 also will use your internet connection as part of a form of bittorrent network to distribute patches and updates ( and who knows what else as well either way) to other machines. Thus best to say the network connection is metered, as that does turn it down a lot.
You can turn this off, although I do believe it is on by default.
I played around with it when they were pushing the 1703 update, just for the local.  Imagine the security problems if you could not disable it.  Although, I have seen them re-enable features like this that I have disabled.   Take the update service for example.  When I just ran services, it was no longer set to disabled and was running.  I disabled it, again.   :-DD 
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Offline Buriedcode

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #180 on: October 15, 2017, 03:34:18 pm »
Services will often be re-enabled after an update.  If you defer updates, and allow them to install one by one manually, you can keep track of it.  In some ways this is annoying, as you may have to do this every time, but on the flip side, it is part and parcel of keeping things 'up to date' for security.   I imagine they reset some settings because users may turn off features vital to security, then forget they have done so, leaving themselves open - and of course, if they lose valuable data they will blame the OS, despite the user turning off features designed to prevent that.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #181 on: October 15, 2017, 03:47:03 pm »
To be clear I had disabled the update service after 1703 was installed, after blocking all the ports except for the three listed and after changing the router's tables to basically block all the traffic with Microsoft.   Enabling the auto updates does not seem to do much except generate unanswered traffic.   
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Offline KE5FX

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #182 on: October 15, 2017, 07:52:30 pm »
Why can't Microsoft sell us what we really want - a stable and lean OS that can run programs? Have a much cleaner and faster update process - say like Arch Linux's Pacman. It would be great to have a Windows OS that can be simply set to never talk to anyone on its own accord. I would pay real money for that, but just once. Microsoft no longer want to tolerate users who pay them $100 for an OS and then never give them anything for the next 10 years.

They don't want money.  They've got money.  They want data.  Your data.

It turns out you can have enough money, but you can never have enough data.  Who knew?
 

Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #183 on: October 15, 2017, 11:18:30 pm »
Why can't Microsoft sell us what we really want - a stable and lean OS that can run programs? Have a much cleaner and faster update process - say like Arch Linux's Pacman. It would be great to have a Windows OS that can be simply set to never talk to anyone on its own accord. I would pay real money for that, but just once. Microsoft no longer want to tolerate users who pay them $100 for an OS and then never give them anything for the next 10 years.

They don't want money.  They've got money.  They want data.  Your data.

It turns out you can have enough money, but you can never have enough data.  Who knew?

Pretty much this, data is now worth more than anything now days.  And they know they have most people by the throat and most people are not going to switch to Linux, so they don't really care if they piss off people.  What makes it worse is that the majority of people don't even care and just say "I have nothing to hide" and accept it. 
 

Online blueskull

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #184 on: October 15, 2017, 11:30:17 pm »
For the Windows 10 Pro haters, here are 2 ways to get Windows 10 Enterprise:

1. Get a license key here: https://digitalsguru.myshopify.com/products/windows-10-enterprise-product-key-code-32-64bit-full-version?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&variant=36370201296
It's technically not compliant with EULA since you don't have SA agreement, but from MS activation server's perspective, there's no difference, so as long as you can keep your employees' mouth shut, it should be okay.

2. MS sells a Windows 10 Enterprise as service offering, called Windows 10 Enterprise E3/E5, managed by a MS "trusted" cloud service partner (so the CDP serves as domain controller, and your client computer runs Windows 10 Enterprise client version). This starts from $84 per year.
 

Offline rdl

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #185 on: October 16, 2017, 01:30:05 am »
1. For $20 I may buy one just to see if it actually works.

2. Not interested in untrustworthy cloud anything, but $84 a year? I'm used to buying OEM Windows once and using it for 5 years or more.

For the Windows 10 Pro haters, here are 2 ways to get Windows 10 Enterprise:

1. Get a license key here: https://digitalsguru.myshopify.com/products/windows-10-enterprise-product-key-code-32-64bit-full-version?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&variant=36370201296
It's technically not compliant with EULA since you don't have SA agreement, but from MS activation server's perspective, there's no difference, so as long as you can keep your employees' mouth shut, it should be okay.

2. MS sells a Windows 10 Enterprise as service offering, called Windows 10 Enterprise E3/E5, managed by a MS "trusted" cloud service partner (so the CDP serves as domain controller, and your client computer runs Windows 10 Enterprise client version). This starts from $84 per year.
 

Online BradC

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #186 on: October 16, 2017, 02:44:43 am »
1. For $20 I may buy one just to see if it actually works.

Before you do that, why not put a KMS server on another PC on your network and install Win 10 Enterprise with a KMS key? That'll get you up, running and activated. Then you can try all the telemetry disabling stuff to see if it's worth spending the $20 to illegitimately get a "legit" key.
 

Offline anishkgt

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #187 on: October 16, 2017, 07:30:35 am »
Sorry to hear Joe.  I use Veracrypt with 1607 and all is well.  WinPE or WinRE don't recognize the Veracrypt bootloader to load 1703 so it falls back on 1607 and prevents the Win10 "upgrade" .

I still get periodic fixes for 1607 layered on Veracrypt.  I would hope by the expiration of support for 1607, 1703 would have all bugs worked out.


Could you please share more on the VeraCypt. I did checkout what it was but since its related to security and encryption, i wish to know more about it. Windows does an encryption app called the BitLocker Drive encryption.
 

Online bd139

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #188 on: October 16, 2017, 08:27:12 am »
Just a heads up with enterprise edition. It still has baseline security telemetry when everything else is turned off. That means it farts off binaries in your system via windows defender and smart screen randomly.

This is why we’re making steps to kill it. Even via MDM/GPO it can’t meet our security policy.
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #189 on: October 16, 2017, 06:55:58 pm »
Why can't Microsoft sell us what we really want - a stable and lean OS that can run programs? Have a much cleaner and faster update process - say like Arch Linux's Pacman. It would be great to have a Windows OS that can be simply set to never talk to anyone on its own accord. I would pay real money for that, but just once. Microsoft no longer want to tolerate users who pay them $100 for an OS and then never give them anything for the next 10 years.

They don't want money.  They've got money.  They want data.  Your data.

It turns out you can have enough money, but you can never have enough data.  Who knew?

Pretty much this, data is now worth more than anything now days.  And they know they have most people by the throat and most people are not going to switch to Linux, so they don't really care if they piss off people.  What makes it worse is that the majority of people don't even care and just say "I have nothing to hide" and accept it.
Quite interesting take indeed. It looks to me that Windows has become a "free" shopping/advertisement platform. I wonder if that is one more nail in the coffin of desktop computing for the common man, given that mobile has been much more prevalent for this audience these days?

One can only wonder...
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Offline HoracioDos

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #190 on: October 16, 2017, 09:17:04 pm »
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #191 on: October 17, 2017, 12:52:19 am »
1. For $20 I may buy one just to see if it actually works.

2. Not interested in untrustworthy cloud anything, but $84 a year? I'm used to buying OEM Windows once and using it for 5 years or more.
You're forgetting about the "Software as a Service" part. Everyone does it now. Why have people spend money once, when you could have them spending it forever?
 

Offline KE5FX

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #192 on: October 17, 2017, 01:22:03 am »
I'm used to buying OEM Windows once and using it for 5 years or more.

Thank you for your report, User.  This bug has been scheduled for attention at the highest level of priority.  We are pleased to report that it will be fixed in the next release. -- Microsoft
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #193 on: October 18, 2017, 02:38:26 am »
Was going to watch some TV and about 10 minutes into it, there was that stupid update popup.   This time it offered a hide button, so I selected that and went back to watching.  Whole show disrupted now.  Settled back in and again about 10 minutes later, the popup shows up.   This time I tell it to go ahead and give up on using the PC.  Thanks again Satya Nadella for taking a PC that has ran fine for a few years and rendering it useless.   

Several more minutes pass and up comes the popup.  This time it says that it can't get the patch. No sht!  It want's me to contact MS tech support with some number.   At that time, I removed every patch that had been installed in the last few months.   

Strange is my desktop has never popped up with anything after the changes to the router.   The laptop must have been contaminated with more updates as I had left it off that router for a few days while I was sorting it out.     
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Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #194 on: October 18, 2017, 08:59:59 am »
i just found out yesterday, a lot of modern laptops have a rootkit in the UEFI bios that phones home and downloads a load of crap into your windows install!!
 

Online bd139

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #195 on: October 18, 2017, 10:10:09 am »
It’s a shit show isn’t it?

I actually installed freebsd on a spare desktop pc I have lying around yesterday. See if there is a decent spice variant in the ports collection ...
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #196 on: October 18, 2017, 11:37:13 am »
See if there is a decent spice variant in the ports collection ...

Please post what you find for SPICE.  Maybe start a new thread for it.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online bd139

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #197 on: October 18, 2017, 12:00:10 pm »
Will do.
 

Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #198 on: October 18, 2017, 12:29:13 pm »
LTspice ??

i dont use it, but remember seeing it in repo's for years.
 

Offline Bud

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #199 on: October 18, 2017, 01:45:11 pm »
Several more minutes pass and up comes the popup.  This time it says that it can't get the patch. No sht!  It want's me to contact MS tech support with some number.   At that time, I removed every patch that had been installed in the last few months.   

Strange is my desktop has never popped up with anything after the changes to the router.   The laptop must have been contaminated with more updates as I had left it off that router for a few days while I was sorting it out.   

Looks a typical scam to me, i once in awhile see it on exactly tv watching web sites. May have nothing to do with MS. You really think MS support wants to talk to you ?
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #200 on: October 18, 2017, 10:38:12 pm »
Several more minutes pass and up comes the popup.  This time it says that it can't get the patch. No sht!  It want's me to contact MS tech support with some number.   At that time, I removed every patch that had been installed in the last few months.   

Strange is my desktop has never popped up with anything after the changes to the router.   The laptop must have been contaminated with more updates as I had left it off that router for a few days while I was sorting it out.   

Looks a typical scam to me, i once in awhile see it on exactly tv watching web sites. May have nothing to do with MS. You really think MS support wants to talk to you ?

I can only offer the forum what happens as I continue to tighten down on the traffic.  I am not posting the information to try and sway anyone's feelings about it, more just sharing the direction I have taken to try and make the PCs stable again. 

If you would like more information about the Microsoft 10 Update Assistant and the message, just Google the following:
"Something went wrong. You can contact Microsoft support for help with this error.  Here is the error code"
Leave the quotes in.

I did not write down the specific code but assume that it would be unique to them being unable to download the updates.   After uninstalling all their patches along with the new update assistant, I have not seen another popup on this PC. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline amspire

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #201 on: October 18, 2017, 11:43:36 pm »
Came across a free program ShutUp10 from the respected anti-defrag company O&O:

https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10

I haven't tried it yet, but it looks useful. It is a standalone portable program so it isn't installed, and it gives a simple interface to control security and privacy settings. If anyone is able to test it, it would be good to see if it helps to control Windows 10 a little. I currently cannot as my only Windows 10 is out of action till tomorrow.
 

Online BradC

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #202 on: October 19, 2017, 12:08:15 am »
Came across a free program ShutUp10 from the respected anti-defrag company O&O:

It's probably one of the better ones, but all it does is wind all the publicly available switches down to zero. When I tried it, Windows was still very chatty,bthus my method of total isolation for the Windows machines.
 

Offline amspire

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #203 on: October 19, 2017, 12:12:56 am »
I was just able to try ShutUp10 in a Windows 10 VM that I had just updated to the Fall Creators Edition out last Tuesday.

Seems to work OK. When doing the upgrade, I turned off all the privacy options and Cortana during the update. I had selected a "Keep Nothing" upgrade, so I turned off all the "Talk to Microsoft" features presented to a new Windows user during initial setup.

ShutUp10 seems to show that over 90% of the Windows "Features" that talk to Microsoft are still running. I have attached a screen snapshot. There are another 3 pages of features after this one.

You probably shouldn't just go in and disable everything (green). That would disable things like Windows Defender that you may actually want. So if you use this tool, you do have to read what you are disabling.

ShutUp10 does have a recommended setting and you can choose the recommended setting for all the options with a click.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2017, 12:19:35 am by amspire »
 

Offline amspire

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #204 on: October 19, 2017, 12:28:02 am »
Came across a free program ShutUp10 from the respected anti-defrag company O&O:

It's probably one of the better ones, but all it does is wind all the publicly available switches down to zero. When I tried it, Windows was still very chatty,bthus my method of total isolation for the Windows machines.
Thanks. I just went in to Windows settings and turned off all the privacy options, and yet Shutup10 still shown the majority of the features can still chat to Microsoft.  So this utility is probably a big improvement over wading through the Windows Settings, but I am sure you are right. There will be things that Microsoft never want to disable.
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #205 on: October 19, 2017, 03:23:43 am »
I've been using SpyBot Anti-Beacon and will check out ShutUp10. Looks interesting. Thanks for the link.

Update: Just finished exploring it. Lots of good options in there. I blocked lots more stuff and exported the settings to make it easier to re-apply after future Windows updates.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2017, 03:39:44 am by bitseeker »
I TEA.
 

Offline G7PSK

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #206 on: October 19, 2017, 07:33:41 am »
I've been using SpyBot Anti-Beacon and will check out ShutUp10. Looks interesting. Thanks for the link.

Update: Just finished exploring it. Lots of good options in there. I blocked lots more stuff and exported the settings to make it easier to re-apply after future Windows updates.
I also have been using spybot anti beacon plus I have turned cortana off in the registry plus the silent app installer. Without the browser open I have no outbound traffic according to wireshark after turning on the computer other than the handshake with router.
 

Offline HoracioDos

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #207 on: October 19, 2017, 12:39:24 pm »
Comparison of Windows 10 Privacy tools
https://www.ghacks.net/2015/08/14/comparison-of-windows-10-privacy-tools/

Beware some tools change things that cannot be undone

Why You Shouldn’t Use “Anti-Spying” Tools for Windows 10
https://www.howtogeek.com/273513/why-you-shouldnt-use-anti-spying-tools-for-windows-10/
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #208 on: October 19, 2017, 12:49:23 pm »
Comparison of Windows 10 Privacy tools
https://www.ghacks.net/2015/08/14/comparison-of-windows-10-privacy-tools/

Beware some tools change things that cannot be undone

Why You Shouldn’t Use “Anti-Spying” Tools for Windows 10
https://www.howtogeek.com/273513/why-you-shouldnt-use-anti-spying-tools-for-windows-10/
The things can be undone just fine. Those tools just won't. Others will, however.
 

Offline HoracioDos

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #209 on: October 19, 2017, 01:14:02 pm »
The things can be undone just fine. Those tools just won't. Others will, however.
Ok. That was a small warning. I read somewhere that changes are made not only in registry. Of course, they can be undone manually if needed.
 

Offline rdl

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #210 on: October 19, 2017, 03:48:03 pm »
Since it doesn't seem possible to make it completely non-intrusive and private with a reasonable amount of effort, I've found the best option is to simply not use Windows 10.
 
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Offline G7PSK

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #211 on: October 19, 2017, 08:42:33 pm »
Comparison of Windows 10 Privacy tools
https://www.ghacks.net/2015/08/14/comparison-of-windows-10-privacy-tools/

Beware some tools change things that cannot be undone

Why You Shouldn’t Use “Anti-Spying” Tools for Windows 10
https://www.howtogeek.com/273513/why-you-shouldnt-use-anti-spying-tools-for-windows-10/
I have had no trouble with Windows update and as I use a separate anti virus program windows defender is disabled anyway and not wanted as for the windows store I have as yet to want anything from it, silent app installer is disabled in registry as I am fed up with having noxious games perpetually popping up. 
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #212 on: October 22, 2017, 02:51:50 am »
I decided to let the little laptop run this latest set of updates.  Over 5GBytes downloading.  Consider it had just downloaded 3GBytes I'm impressed.  I assume 10Meg of that is for a new updater that will attempt to work around any blocks I have come up with, and 500M for the new Candy Crush game that requires .NET 10.    2G for the latest .NET 10.   The rest being ad and spyware.  Maybe some cute menu tossed in there.   

I would gut that company starting at the top.  Come on Bill, find someone that won't destroy in a few years what it took so long to build.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #213 on: October 22, 2017, 01:08:41 pm »
Bill is too busy with his covert ugenics program using insect delivered "vaccines" these days to give a shit about m$
 

Offline NANDBlog

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #214 on: October 25, 2017, 01:17:55 pm »
I will instert this here also:

PSA: Do not install Microsoft creators fall update if you use Altium


There is a problem with update kb4041681 which comes with this.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4041681/windows-7-update-kb4041681
OK, this is a windows 7 update issue, but it is clearly there in windows 10

Quote
Installing this update may cause applications based on the Microsoft JET Database Engine (Microsoft Access 2007 and older or non-Microsoft applications) to fail when creating or opening Microsoft Excel .xls files. The error message is, “Unexpected error from external database driver (1). (Microsoft JET Database Engine)".
Altium uses this for DBLib libraries, at least the Excel ones. I couldnt open any of my libraries, I got a EOIeException error. SoI couldnt place any new components. I dont know what else might have been broken, I had to go back to a restore point.
Forum with similar error.
https://forum.live.altium.com/posts/219414

Hopefully someone from Microsoft realizes, that they are breaking software that are somewhat more important than their 3D wet dream desktop.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2017, 01:27:07 pm by NANDBlog »
 

Online bd139

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #215 on: October 25, 2017, 01:31:59 pm »
Doesn't surprise me. They fired all their QA. We're all fucked.
 

Offline Syntax_Error

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #216 on: October 25, 2017, 11:44:51 pm »
Huh...

Didn't someone earlier say Altium was the reason they were locked into MS Windows and couldn't use Linux or Mac? Well, guess that's resolved itself.
It's perfectly acceptable to not know something in the short term. To continue to not know over the long term is just laziness.
 

Online blueskull

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #217 on: October 26, 2017, 12:01:57 am »
Huh...

Didn't someone earlier say Altium was the reason they were locked into MS Windows and couldn't use Linux or Mac? Well, guess that's resolved itself.

I did. Still, even if Altium is buggy on Windows, it's way better than not working at all on macOS and Linux.
Also, I expect this bug to be fixed in AD18 since they will be moving to fully .NET based (no legacy Delphi components).
 

Offline Syntax_Error

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #218 on: October 26, 2017, 12:15:55 am »
Sure. (no sarcasm)

I'm no fanboy, it's just increasingly easy to poke fun at MS. Give them some more time, I'm sure they will brew up more annoying bugs "for Altium to fix" by altering *their* software.
It's perfectly acceptable to not know something in the short term. To continue to not know over the long term is just laziness.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #219 on: October 26, 2017, 11:30:21 am »
Ran into a new problem but I am not sure if it related to the creators update.   Its highly suspect. 

I have a custom board inside the PC that I talk to using LabVIEW.  When I bought the new PC, I switched over to using their driver Wizard tool.  This creates the INF and INI files.   I then talk directly to the board using LabVIEW built-in functions. 

I went to run it and was able to read and write to the board just fine.  Everything worked normal, except there were no interrupts.  I did not suspect the hardware would fail and cause this.  I had made no changes to the code since I ported over to with the new PC. When I would attempt to enable the events triggered by the hardware interrupt, LabVIEW will error with a code that had very little information on.  Size mismatch or such.

After various tests and having no luck, I was going to reinstall the hardware in the old P4 machine just to make sure it was not really a hardware problem.  Instead,  I decided to recreate the INF/INI files from scratch.  The tool I used is the same version.  The two files match with the old ones.   I attempted to update the driver to new (even though it was identical) and Windows 10 would not allow it because of the signature.  I used the shift restart/seven to override this.   And bingo, it all starts working. 

I don't install a lot of software on this PC.  The only other thing that was new was I had to upgrade VirtualBox after the creators update.  It makes no sense that MS would have scrubbed the settings and disabled the interrupts.   Yet, I can't explain why this happened.   Maybe when they were blue screening my PC with their latest spyware, Candy Crush X-box updates, they disabled the hardware as part of the recovery.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #220 on: October 26, 2017, 01:04:35 pm »
I expect this bug to be fixed in AD18 since they will be moving to fully .NET based (no legacy Delphi components).

that's interesting, it should run with MONO in Linux then.
 

Offline NANDBlog

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #221 on: October 26, 2017, 02:18:10 pm »
I expect this bug to be fixed in AD18 since they will be moving to fully .NET based (no legacy Delphi components).

that's interesting, it should run with MONO in Linux then.
Because that supports directx, right?
I suspect maybe 1% of current Altium users want to run their tool on Linux, but 99% of Linux boys want Altium to support their OS. Even though they dont have a license for it, and not planning on getting one.
 

Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #222 on: October 26, 2017, 02:59:57 pm »
i'm not concerned,
i do reverse engineering - not design engineering.
the only thing in altium i would use is the schematic creation - and there are faster and smaller programs that do that just fine.
(KiCad is not one of them!  |O )
 

Offline rstofer

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #223 on: October 26, 2017, 05:28:51 pm »
OK, this is REALLY important!

Xilinx Vivado does run on Win 10 1703 but it will not start on 1709.  The update has to be removed which, fortunately, is pretty easy to do.

BUT...  You need to now prevent Windows from automatically updating in the future.  Google is your friend.

It appears I may be stuck at 1703 for the foreseeable future.
 

Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #224 on: October 26, 2017, 06:18:10 pm »
lol
try to start it from a command-line
that trick used to show you what is not being found etc.
 

Offline rstofer

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #225 on: October 27, 2017, 10:06:34 pm »
I already rolled back to 1703 and I guess I plan to stay there indefinitely.  I simply can't afford to lose any node licensing or not be able to run Vivado.  It would be fair to say I built the computer specifically to pick up the pace on FPGA projects.  I don't use it on a daily basis.

 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #226 on: October 27, 2017, 10:45:04 pm »
OK, this is REALLY important!

Xilinx Vivado does run on Win 10 1703 but it will not start on 1709.  The update has to be removed which, fortunately, is pretty easy to do.

BUT...  You need to now prevent Windows from automatically updating in the future.  Google is your friend.

It appears I may be stuck at 1703 for the foreseeable future.

What version of Vivado?
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline rstofer

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #227 on: October 28, 2017, 01:40:31 am »
OK, this is REALLY important!

Xilinx Vivado does run on Win 10 1703 but it will not start on 1709.  The update has to be removed which, fortunately, is pretty easy to do.

BUT...  You need to now prevent Windows from automatically updating in the future.  Google is your friend.

It appears I may be stuck at 1703 for the foreseeable future.

What version of Vivado?

Vivado 2017.2

When I checked the error code on Google, I found it to be a common problem.  It seems many people are backing up to Win 7.  That isn't necessary but it certainly doesn't run on Win 10 Version 1709.

I have forgotten what the error code was and it isn't worth upgrading to 1709 to find it only to have to back down to 1703.
 


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