Author Topic: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703  (Read 22137 times)

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Online joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #50 on: October 08, 2017, 09:06:06 pm »
I practice vigilantism. I pay for the best and reasonable most expensive product I can buy as a sign of courtesy, but if something is I can't buy (like enterprise license without SA), I'm not ashamed to steal it.

Your family had enough to send you here to the US for your education.  You talk of buying higher end PCs and equipment.  We can assume it's not a question of money.  It's a difference in upbringing. Personally, if I were hiring people and knew one was at a lessor technical level than another but had higher ethics, I can tell you which one I will extend an offer to.  I can always teach the technical side.

I'm not hesitate to buy software. I have spent more than $10k on engineering tools, and they all have a common feature -- can be bought with money.
...
transferred it the first time from my Fusion VM to Parallels VM on the same Mac.

There is no need to try and justify your comments to me. 
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Online joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #51 on: October 08, 2017, 09:15:03 pm »
Like many in this thread, I am not thrilled with windows 10.  ...

For those with windows 10 who really complain - why not switch? There are many Linux distro's to choose from.  Resistance to change is understandable, but you are not forced into using anything.

If I switch, it would not be to any of the GNU flavors.  I play with it from time to time but it's always a nightmare to get anything running and many of the tools that I use the PC for do not support it.   Personally, I would rather have MS get out of the data mining business but it seems it may be the only way they can turn a profit now under the new leadership. 
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Offline G7PSK

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #52 on: October 08, 2017, 09:16:12 pm »
Could go back to XP plus good anti virus and malware programs that way there is only a chance that you get hacked as opposed to the certainty with windows 10 that all your data is grabbed.
The way Microsoft is carrying on they will get done over again by the EU.
 

Online Buriedcode

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #53 on: October 08, 2017, 09:24:42 pm »
Like many in this thread, I am not thrilled with windows 10.  ...

For those with windows 10 who really complain - why not switch? There are many Linux distro's to choose from.  Resistance to change is understandable, but you are not forced into using anything.

If I switch, it would not be to any of the GNU flavors.  I play with it from time to time but it's always a nightmare to get anything running and many of the tools that I use the PC for do not support it.   Personally, I would rather have MS get out of the data mining business but it seems it may be the only way they can turn a profit now under the new leadership.

You see, this is my point.  You want all the convenience and app support of windows, but also you want their company to have a business model you approve of.  The data mining business is booming, and has led to advances in voice/face recognition, and believe it or not, greatly improved financial security.  It has its dark sides (with medical records sold to insurance companies) but its not like we don't benefit from it at all. Would you rather MS charge $400 for windows 10, remove cortana (I don't really use it..) and onedrive, just so it collected less data? My point is, you benefit from this.

Of course you're free to state your gripes with the software and the company, but if you disagree with a company - why do business with them?
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #54 on: October 08, 2017, 09:31:09 pm »
The updates to push/force Windows 10 on users during it's "free" phase did stop, but I don't believe they were the (only) ones that added "telemetry" to Windows 7 and 8.
Correct.
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #55 on: October 08, 2017, 09:41:36 pm »
The updates to push/force Windows 10 on users during it's "free" phase did stop, but I don't believe they were the (only) ones that added "telemetry" to Windows 7 and 8.
Correct.

Ummmm, that is why I said that nobody should allow updates to Win7 without searching and reviewing them first.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #56 on: October 08, 2017, 09:42:47 pm »
Like many in this thread, I am not thrilled with windows 10.  More specifically, it providing the option to "defer updates", but downloading and installing them anyway.  There are a few other options that are given to the user, that are similarly ignored.  As I have got older, I dread updates more and more,as they do tend to 'break' things.  In the interest of balance...

However.  The cries of 'spyware', anti-privacy, and general bashing of MS is getting as bad as the bashing of Apple.  You are all free to choose what OS you use (unless for work, in which case your IT department worries about security, not you). For every thing I dislike about windows 10 (windows 7 had a similar reaction btw, but was muted because vista was so ghastly) there are many things I do like, but don't really think about because it just works. 

And that's the point: we expect OS's to be intuitive, responsive, and just do their job - when they do that, we don't notice them.  That is why you will find few people "praising" an operating system (unless they are trying to jump on a bandwagon).  But features we don't like? we remember.

-Edge is now, IMO the fastest 'convenient' browser for windows.  Not that it is stellar, just that chrome and firefox have bloated out with heavy memory usage.
-Windows defender means we won't have to install bloated and resource-hogging third-party antivirus apps.  Again, it isn't ideal, but it does its job just fine.
-My PC is as fast, if not slightly faster as it was under windows 7.  On 6 year old hardware, I find this hard to believe, but its true.  5 seconds from power button to desktop.
-Win10 does have higher hardware requirements than win7, and whilst I disagreed with the big push for windows 10, those who find it terribly slow are probably running hardware that is past its prime.
-Windows 10 is as customisable as win7 was, one sometimes has to go through hoops to turn off certain features, but it is doable.  Often taking about 15 seconds to google, which is much quicker than  writing a forum post about how much you don't like that particular feature.  Many of the 'hacks' that were used for win7, are the same for windows 10. (customized searches, explorer, admin rights, themes, shortcuts etc..).

As for privacy and personal information.  We give away a fair bit of personal information, which is sold on in the 'big data' market.  Many seem to think this is illegal and hidden - it really isn't, just read license agreements.  I would obviously prefer if my personal information wasn't collected, but ultimately it is still my choice to use windows 10, warts 'n' all.  It would be very difficult to live ones life trying to not give away any personal data, but its possible - its the price we pay for modern convenience. 

And those who have resolutely stuck to windows 7, good for you. It is a fine OS, and almost all applications will still run on it.  You use this knowing full well the risks of an OS that is no longer supported, and with a slow decline of available software. I can't see windows 7 use dropping significantly in the next few years.

For those with windows 10 who really complain - why not switch? There are many Linux distro's to choose from.  Resistance to change is understandable, but you are not forced into using anything.
Except that you are forced, for reasons already mentioned. Migrating to Linux or Apple isn't always an option. Having a 90% market share means not always leaving people options.

Also, calling it bashing is a bit of a lowball tactic. It suggests people haven't looked at the facts and didn't take any care to form an opinion. I think people here at least have been quite careful in their wordings, and nothing discussed here is blatantly untrue or misrepresented.

Finally, the fact that other parties harvest and sell your data at every opportunity doesn't excuse Microsoft to do so. Many of those services and companies inherently deal with things online. By its very nature, you can't expect full privacy when online. Also, most of these services are provided to you freely, and you pay with your data. In the case of Windows 10, there is no inherent need to harvest and collect data. This has been artificially woven into the OS to allow Microsoft to jump on the bandwagon. It also is a paid product, which means paying again with your data doesn't sit quite right.  Not to mention Microsoft being rather disingenuous about what is harvested and when. Only in the face of legal action, they finally yielded a little bit.

An OS that actually sends detailed information about what application you use, what websites you visit and much more on its default settings can easily be called spyware. Any program on your computer that would do half of that would be considered rather dangerous and very unwanted.
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #57 on: October 08, 2017, 09:49:44 pm »
Ummmm, that is why I said that nobody should allow updates to Win7 without searching and reviewing them first.
I'm not sure that is enough. There's a fair chance they've been rolled into fresh images by now, as the first non Windows 10 telemetry updates were released years ago. I'm not quite sure, though.

Do note it's not just Windows 7, but 8.x too.
 

Offline KE5FX

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #58 on: October 08, 2017, 09:54:37 pm »
Would you rather MS charge $400 for windows 10, remove cortana (I don't really use it..) and onedrive, just so it collected less data?

Any day of the week.
 
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Offline Lightages

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #59 on: October 08, 2017, 09:58:47 pm »
See this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/advice-needed-for-running-linux-and-develeopment-tools-programming-tools-etc/

Life is not perfect and you need to balance one benefit against another. You also have to balance the drawbacks against another. Giving your personal freedom away to big brother is definitely against the US philosophy, that is if you want to follow the founding principles of the US. If you are from another part of the world you might see things differently.

Being free to live a life and pursue personal happiness without harming others was the dream of the 60s and 70s. Ironically the assholes of that epoch decided that corporate control and leeching off the public was more important than the benefit of the world as a whole. So follow the corporate mantra and become a consumer zombie willing to sell your life (literally) to vampires, or try to take back your life.

Google, Microsoft, Facebook, and many others are happy to drain the blood from the sheeple.

Linux is the sheeple fighting back and trying to take back their lives. No you can't do everything with Linux. Does doing what the corporate overlords say you should be able to do matter more to you than being more in control of your life and happiness?

Does the above sound paranoid? I don't care. Take it any way you want. It is your life.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 10:04:28 pm by Lightages »
 

Online joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #60 on: October 08, 2017, 10:01:01 pm »
I just dropped XP a year ago.  :-DD  Ran fine and did what I needed at home.  I blame that damn Signal Hound!  :-DD
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Online joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #61 on: October 08, 2017, 10:04:34 pm »
Would you rather MS charge $400 for windows 10, remove cortana (I don't really use it..) and onedrive, just so it collected less data?

I want no collection and no forced updates.  And yes, I would be willing to pay for it. 
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Offline blueskull

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #62 on: October 08, 2017, 10:07:06 pm »
Would you rather MS charge $400 for windows 10, remove cortana (I don't really use it..) and onedrive, just so it collected less data?

Any day of the week.

If just for OneDrive and Cortana, well, Cortana can be disabled in settings, and starting from 1703 update, OneDrive can be removed from control panel.
To completely remove all OneDrive remnants, go to registry and delete related CLSIDs and explorer settings.
What I would like to see is a $400 Windows 10 Enterprise personal and small business edition -- no forced updates, no ADs, no telemetry besides basic crash analysis and antivirus sampling. Oh, bring back Aero.
Starting from 1703, Aero is partially back, but uses a new set of API that requires programmers to knowingly use it, rather than a generic window decorator. calc.exe demonstrates some of its new UI features.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #63 on: October 08, 2017, 10:07:44 pm »
Why would Windows 10 suddenly be an order of magnitude more expensive than its precursors? That doesn't make much sense.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #64 on: October 08, 2017, 10:10:44 pm »
See this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/advice-needed-for-running-linux-and-develeopment-tools-programming-tools-etc/

Life is not perfect and you need to balance one benefit against another. You also have to balance the drawbacks against another. Giving your personal freedom away to big brother is definitely against the US philosophy, that is if you want to follow the founding principles of the US. If you are from another part of the world you might see things differently.

Being free to live a life and pursue personal happiness without harming others was the dream of the 60s and 70s. Ironically the assholes of that epoch decided that corporate control and leeching off the public was more important than the benefit of the world as a whole. So follow the corporate mantra and become a consumer zombie willing to sell your life (literally) to vampires, or try to take back your life.

Google, Microsoft, Facebook, and many others are happy to drain the blood from the sheeple.

Linux is the sheeple fighting back and trying to take back their lives. No you can't do everything with Linux. Does doing what the corporate overlords say you should be able to do matter more to you than being more in control of your life and happiness?

Does the above sound paranoid? I don't care. Take it any way you want. It is your life.
I can't run the software I need to run under Linux. Believe me, I've tried. That in turn means not running a business. Earning a living on my terms is what I would call being in control of my life and happiness.
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #65 on: October 08, 2017, 10:16:22 pm »
See this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/advice-needed-for-running-linux-and-develeopment-tools-programming-tools-etc/

Life is not perfect and you need to balance one benefit against another. You also have to balance the drawbacks against another. Giving your personal freedom away to big brother is definitely against the US philosophy, that is if you want to follow the founding principles of the US. If you are from another part of the world you might see things differently.

Being free to live a life and pursue personal happiness without harming others was the dream of the 60s and 70s. Ironically the assholes of that epoch decided that corporate control and leeching off the public was more important than the benefit of the world as a whole. So follow the corporate mantra and become a consumer zombie willing to sell your life (literally) to vampires, or try to take back your life.

Google, Microsoft, Facebook, and many others are happy to drain the blood from the sheeple.

Linux is the sheeple fighting back and trying to take back their lives. No you can't do everything with Linux. Does doing what the corporate overlords say you should be able to do matter more to you than being more in control of your life and happiness?

Does the above sound paranoid? I don't care. Take it any way you want. It is your life.
I can't run the software I need to run under Linux. Believe me, I've tried. That in turn means not running a business. Earning a living on my terms is what I would call being in control of my life and happiness.
I understand. So run what you need in whatever version of Windows that doesn't rape you, and run the rest in Linux if you can. I am not trying to tell you what to do, just showing what might be the best way to avoid the problems.

If you feel willing, please state what you cannot do in Linux in my thread as referenced. It would be helpful to me and perhaps others too.
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #66 on: October 08, 2017, 10:17:34 pm »
I can't run the software I need to run under Linux. Believe me, I've tried. That in turn means not running a business. Earning a living on my terms is what I would call being in control of my life and happiness.

Exactly. If Linux or macOS can run Altium Designer, I will dump Windows 10 immediately.
Oh, BTW, if anyone can give me a 100% working solution for running AD17/future AD18 under Linux/macOS, you can have my $180 Win10 retail license for free.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #67 on: October 08, 2017, 10:30:09 pm »
I understand. So run what you need in whatever version of Windows that doesn't rape you, and run the rest in Linux if you can. I am not trying to tell you what to do, just showing what might be the best way to avoid the problems.

If you feel willing, please state what you cannot do in Linux in my thread as referenced. It would be helpful to me and perhaps others too.
Most industry standard software doesn't run in Linux. You can work around that with alternatives, but it generally means being less competitive, to the point of not being able to sustain a business at all.

I don't quite see the point of running Linux next to Windows. If you use it a little, you might as well use it a lot. When it comes to the problem areas, it ultimately matters little. I've taken countermeasures I consider to be adequate for now, but I've noticed I'm increasingly growing tired of battling Microsoft and whatever plot they came up this time. An OS is a tools and tools should allow you to do a job thanks to them, not in spite of them. Unfortunately, the balance seems to shift towards the latter ever more.

The problem is I honestly don't know where I'll go when the breaking point has been reached.
 
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Offline Lightages

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #68 on: October 08, 2017, 10:54:49 pm »
I understand. So run what you need in whatever version of Windows that doesn't rape you, and run the rest in Linux if you can. I am not trying to tell you what to do, just showing what might be the best way to avoid the problems.

If you feel willing, please state what you cannot do in Linux in my thread as referenced. It would be helpful to me and perhaps others too.
Most industry standard software doesn't run in Linux. You can work around that with alternatives, but it generally means being less competitive, to the point of not being able to sustain a business at all.

I don't quite see the point of running Linux next to Windows. If you use it a little, you might as well use it a lot. When it comes to the problem areas, it ultimately matters little. I've taken countermeasures I consider to be adequate for now, but I've noticed I'm increasingly growing tired of battling Microsoft and whatever plot they came up this time. An OS is a tools and tools should allow you to do a job thanks to them, not in spite of them. Unfortunately, the balance seems to shift towards the latter ever more.

The problem is I honestly don't know where I'll go when the breaking point has been reached.

I empathize with you completely. I still basically run WIn7 and almost no Linux at all. The problem is that as long as nobody demands support for Linux and just goes along with the status quo nothing will happen to change it. Giving into Win10 just takes it a step further and things will get worse. I can live with certain losses by switching away from Windows because the losses of continuing with Windows will outweigh the benefits. I sincerely believe that this is the turning point of civilization and freedom. We are somewhere in the knee in the curve and I refuse to be a participant in the demise. It might be too late but I can die in peace that I didn't contribute. What is "success" when it just means you stay a  "successful" pawn and the overlords get ultimate control over the minions. This is what "they" are counting on; people to afraid to lose a little while they gain everything.
 

Online joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #69 on: October 09, 2017, 12:05:08 am »
So blocking every port but 53, 80 and 443 is not good enough.  I need a better router. 

Where's that $450 stripped version of Windows 10 I am hearing about??? 
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Offline Lightages

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #70 on: October 09, 2017, 12:30:45 am »
I empathize with you completely. I still basically run WIn7 and almost no Linux at all. The problem is that as long as nobody demands support for Linux and just goes along with the status quo nothing will happen to change it. Giving into Win10 just takes it a step further and things will get worse. I can live with certain losses by switching away from Windows because the losses of continuing with Windows will outweigh the benefits. I sincerely believe that this is the turning point of civilization and freedom. We are somewhere in the knee in the curve and I refuse to be a participant in the demise. It might be too late but I can die in peace that I didn't contribute. What is "success" when it just means you stay a  "successful" pawn and the overlords get ultimate control over the minions. This is what "they" are counting on; people to afraid to lose a little while they gain everything.

We are still talking about a OS aren't we? Perhaps you should go back to Win98 and really stick it too "them".

Written on my Linux PC with keyboard resting on my Surface RT tablet (doing an upgrade) sitting on my Windows 10 laptop.

I am talking about an OS, the philosophy behind it, and the danger to us. I already spoke about going to Linux. WTF is your point?
 

Online joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #71 on: October 09, 2017, 01:26:45 am »
Looks like the 1703 upgrade broke my VirtualBox 5.1.4-110228.   Downloaded 5.1.28 (latest) and running XP to post this.  Unlike MS, this upgrade seems painless. 

Also, I tried blocking port 443 for fun.  Have wireshark running now.  Funny stuff.   Watching the traffic, I feel like I am sticking it to the man.   :-DD
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Online IanB

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #72 on: October 09, 2017, 01:38:23 am »
Looks like the 1703 upgrade broke my VirtualBox 5.1.4-110228.   Downloaded 5.1.28 (latest) and running XP to post this.  Unlike MS, this upgrade seems painless.

I installed Windows 10 on a VM that I use for software testing, and got annoyed when it started eating CPU and spinning the disk to download updates. I disabled the update services and now it is blissfully quiet  :)
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 

Online rdl

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #73 on: October 09, 2017, 02:56:02 am »
Windows 10, version 1703 Diagnostic Data

In my opinion, 90% or more of this is none of their damn business and should not be necessary for "diagnostics" (figuring out why something doesn't work right).

The diagnostic related services are one of the first I shut down in any Windows 7 installation. Can they easily be turned off in Windows 10? I'm guessing "No" on the easily part.



https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/configuration/windows-diagnostic-data

 

Online joeqsmith

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #74 on: October 09, 2017, 03:07:00 am »
Looks like the 1703 upgrade broke my VirtualBox 5.1.4-110228.   Downloaded 5.1.28 (latest) and running XP to post this.  Unlike MS, this upgrade seems painless.

I installed Windows 10 on a VM that I use for software testing, and got annoyed when it started eating CPU and spinning the disk to download updates. I disabled the update services and now it is blissfully quiet  :)

10 running 10?

I use VirtualBox to run XP to support my old apps that will not run under 10.   I have found one Big plus.  I own Office XP and when I run it, it would crash on 10 prior to the 1703.  I thought it strange that 10 would not run their own apps.  It appears they fixed it.

I shut off everything related to the network and just let wireshark sit for a half hour.   It's pretty interesting.  You can see them trying to send data using the 443 port.  The hit the DNS and it all looks fine, then they go back to their site.  They keep trying and eventually figure out to try port 80.  Then we get a flood (I left 80 open).    Then they try to again connect on 443.  On and on it goes.    Looks like a fair number of addresses if you wanted to try and filter it. 
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