Author Topic: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703  (Read 38881 times)

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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #50 on: October 08, 2017, 09:42:47 pm »
Like many in this thread, I am not thrilled with windows 10.  More specifically, it providing the option to "defer updates", but downloading and installing them anyway.  There are a few other options that are given to the user, that are similarly ignored.  As I have got older, I dread updates more and more,as they do tend to 'break' things.  In the interest of balance...

However.  The cries of 'spyware', anti-privacy, and general bashing of MS is getting as bad as the bashing of Apple.  You are all free to choose what OS you use (unless for work, in which case your IT department worries about security, not you). For every thing I dislike about windows 10 (windows 7 had a similar reaction btw, but was muted because vista was so ghastly) there are many things I do like, but don't really think about because it just works. 

And that's the point: we expect OS's to be intuitive, responsive, and just do their job - when they do that, we don't notice them.  That is why you will find few people "praising" an operating system (unless they are trying to jump on a bandwagon).  But features we don't like? we remember.

-Edge is now, IMO the fastest 'convenient' browser for windows.  Not that it is stellar, just that chrome and firefox have bloated out with heavy memory usage.
-Windows defender means we won't have to install bloated and resource-hogging third-party antivirus apps.  Again, it isn't ideal, but it does its job just fine.
-My PC is as fast, if not slightly faster as it was under windows 7.  On 6 year old hardware, I find this hard to believe, but its true.  5 seconds from power button to desktop.
-Win10 does have higher hardware requirements than win7, and whilst I disagreed with the big push for windows 10, those who find it terribly slow are probably running hardware that is past its prime.
-Windows 10 is as customisable as win7 was, one sometimes has to go through hoops to turn off certain features, but it is doable.  Often taking about 15 seconds to google, which is much quicker than  writing a forum post about how much you don't like that particular feature.  Many of the 'hacks' that were used for win7, are the same for windows 10. (customized searches, explorer, admin rights, themes, shortcuts etc..).

As for privacy and personal information.  We give away a fair bit of personal information, which is sold on in the 'big data' market.  Many seem to think this is illegal and hidden - it really isn't, just read license agreements.  I would obviously prefer if my personal information wasn't collected, but ultimately it is still my choice to use windows 10, warts 'n' all.  It would be very difficult to live ones life trying to not give away any personal data, but its possible - its the price we pay for modern convenience. 

And those who have resolutely stuck to windows 7, good for you. It is a fine OS, and almost all applications will still run on it.  You use this knowing full well the risks of an OS that is no longer supported, and with a slow decline of available software. I can't see windows 7 use dropping significantly in the next few years.

For those with windows 10 who really complain - why not switch? There are many Linux distro's to choose from.  Resistance to change is understandable, but you are not forced into using anything.
Except that you are forced, for reasons already mentioned. Migrating to Linux or Apple isn't always an option. Having a 90% market share means not always leaving people options.

Also, calling it bashing is a bit of a lowball tactic. It suggests people haven't looked at the facts and didn't take any care to form an opinion. I think people here at least have been quite careful in their wordings, and nothing discussed here is blatantly untrue or misrepresented.

Finally, the fact that other parties harvest and sell your data at every opportunity doesn't excuse Microsoft to do so. Many of those services and companies inherently deal with things online. By its very nature, you can't expect full privacy when online. Also, most of these services are provided to you freely, and you pay with your data. In the case of Windows 10, there is no inherent need to harvest and collect data. This has been artificially woven into the OS to allow Microsoft to jump on the bandwagon. It also is a paid product, which means paying again with your data doesn't sit quite right.  Not to mention Microsoft being rather disingenuous about what is harvested and when. Only in the face of legal action, they finally yielded a little bit.

An OS that actually sends detailed information about what application you use, what websites you visit and much more on its default settings can easily be called spyware. Any program on your computer that would do half of that would be considered rather dangerous and very unwanted.
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #51 on: October 08, 2017, 09:49:44 pm »
Ummmm, that is why I said that nobody should allow updates to Win7 without searching and reviewing them first.
I'm not sure that is enough. There's a fair chance they've been rolled into fresh images by now, as the first non Windows 10 telemetry updates were released years ago. I'm not quite sure, though.

Do note it's not just Windows 7, but 8.x too.
 

Offline KE5FX

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #52 on: October 08, 2017, 09:54:37 pm »
Would you rather MS charge $400 for windows 10, remove cortana (I don't really use it..) and onedrive, just so it collected less data?

Any day of the week.
 
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Offline Lightages

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #53 on: October 08, 2017, 09:58:47 pm »
See this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/advice-needed-for-running-linux-and-develeopment-tools-programming-tools-etc/

Life is not perfect and you need to balance one benefit against another. You also have to balance the drawbacks against another. Giving your personal freedom away to big brother is definitely against the US philosophy, that is if you want to follow the founding principles of the US. If you are from another part of the world you might see things differently.

Being free to live a life and pursue personal happiness without harming others was the dream of the 60s and 70s. Ironically the assholes of that epoch decided that corporate control and leeching off the public was more important than the benefit of the world as a whole. So follow the corporate mantra and become a consumer zombie willing to sell your life (literally) to vampires, or try to take back your life.

Google, Microsoft, Facebook, and many others are happy to drain the blood from the sheeple.

Linux is the sheeple fighting back and trying to take back their lives. No you can't do everything with Linux. Does doing what the corporate overlords say you should be able to do matter more to you than being more in control of your life and happiness?

Does the above sound paranoid? I don't care. Take it any way you want. It is your life.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 10:04:28 pm by Lightages »
 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #54 on: October 08, 2017, 10:01:01 pm »
I just dropped XP a year ago.  :-DD  Ran fine and did what I needed at home.  I blame that damn Signal Hound!  :-DD

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #55 on: October 08, 2017, 10:04:34 pm »
Would you rather MS charge $400 for windows 10, remove cortana (I don't really use it..) and onedrive, just so it collected less data?

I want no collection and no forced updates.  And yes, I would be willing to pay for it. 
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #56 on: October 08, 2017, 10:07:44 pm »
Why would Windows 10 suddenly be an order of magnitude more expensive than its precursors? That doesn't make much sense.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #57 on: October 08, 2017, 10:10:44 pm »
See this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/advice-needed-for-running-linux-and-develeopment-tools-programming-tools-etc/

Life is not perfect and you need to balance one benefit against another. You also have to balance the drawbacks against another. Giving your personal freedom away to big brother is definitely against the US philosophy, that is if you want to follow the founding principles of the US. If you are from another part of the world you might see things differently.

Being free to live a life and pursue personal happiness without harming others was the dream of the 60s and 70s. Ironically the assholes of that epoch decided that corporate control and leeching off the public was more important than the benefit of the world as a whole. So follow the corporate mantra and become a consumer zombie willing to sell your life (literally) to vampires, or try to take back your life.

Google, Microsoft, Facebook, and many others are happy to drain the blood from the sheeple.

Linux is the sheeple fighting back and trying to take back their lives. No you can't do everything with Linux. Does doing what the corporate overlords say you should be able to do matter more to you than being more in control of your life and happiness?

Does the above sound paranoid? I don't care. Take it any way you want. It is your life.
I can't run the software I need to run under Linux. Believe me, I've tried. That in turn means not running a business. Earning a living on my terms is what I would call being in control of my life and happiness.
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #58 on: October 08, 2017, 10:16:22 pm »
See this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/advice-needed-for-running-linux-and-develeopment-tools-programming-tools-etc/

Life is not perfect and you need to balance one benefit against another. You also have to balance the drawbacks against another. Giving your personal freedom away to big brother is definitely against the US philosophy, that is if you want to follow the founding principles of the US. If you are from another part of the world you might see things differently.

Being free to live a life and pursue personal happiness without harming others was the dream of the 60s and 70s. Ironically the assholes of that epoch decided that corporate control and leeching off the public was more important than the benefit of the world as a whole. So follow the corporate mantra and become a consumer zombie willing to sell your life (literally) to vampires, or try to take back your life.

Google, Microsoft, Facebook, and many others are happy to drain the blood from the sheeple.

Linux is the sheeple fighting back and trying to take back their lives. No you can't do everything with Linux. Does doing what the corporate overlords say you should be able to do matter more to you than being more in control of your life and happiness?

Does the above sound paranoid? I don't care. Take it any way you want. It is your life.
I can't run the software I need to run under Linux. Believe me, I've tried. That in turn means not running a business. Earning a living on my terms is what I would call being in control of my life and happiness.
I understand. So run what you need in whatever version of Windows that doesn't rape you, and run the rest in Linux if you can. I am not trying to tell you what to do, just showing what might be the best way to avoid the problems.

If you feel willing, please state what you cannot do in Linux in my thread as referenced. It would be helpful to me and perhaps others too.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #59 on: October 08, 2017, 10:30:09 pm »
I understand. So run what you need in whatever version of Windows that doesn't rape you, and run the rest in Linux if you can. I am not trying to tell you what to do, just showing what might be the best way to avoid the problems.

If you feel willing, please state what you cannot do in Linux in my thread as referenced. It would be helpful to me and perhaps others too.
Most industry standard software doesn't run in Linux. You can work around that with alternatives, but it generally means being less competitive, to the point of not being able to sustain a business at all.

I don't quite see the point of running Linux next to Windows. If you use it a little, you might as well use it a lot. When it comes to the problem areas, it ultimately matters little. I've taken countermeasures I consider to be adequate for now, but I've noticed I'm increasingly growing tired of battling Microsoft and whatever plot they came up this time. An OS is a tools and tools should allow you to do a job thanks to them, not in spite of them. Unfortunately, the balance seems to shift towards the latter ever more.

The problem is I honestly don't know where I'll go when the breaking point has been reached.
 
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Offline Lightages

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #60 on: October 08, 2017, 10:54:49 pm »
I understand. So run what you need in whatever version of Windows that doesn't rape you, and run the rest in Linux if you can. I am not trying to tell you what to do, just showing what might be the best way to avoid the problems.

If you feel willing, please state what you cannot do in Linux in my thread as referenced. It would be helpful to me and perhaps others too.
Most industry standard software doesn't run in Linux. You can work around that with alternatives, but it generally means being less competitive, to the point of not being able to sustain a business at all.

I don't quite see the point of running Linux next to Windows. If you use it a little, you might as well use it a lot. When it comes to the problem areas, it ultimately matters little. I've taken countermeasures I consider to be adequate for now, but I've noticed I'm increasingly growing tired of battling Microsoft and whatever plot they came up this time. An OS is a tools and tools should allow you to do a job thanks to them, not in spite of them. Unfortunately, the balance seems to shift towards the latter ever more.

The problem is I honestly don't know where I'll go when the breaking point has been reached.

I empathize with you completely. I still basically run WIn7 and almost no Linux at all. The problem is that as long as nobody demands support for Linux and just goes along with the status quo nothing will happen to change it. Giving into Win10 just takes it a step further and things will get worse. I can live with certain losses by switching away from Windows because the losses of continuing with Windows will outweigh the benefits. I sincerely believe that this is the turning point of civilization and freedom. We are somewhere in the knee in the curve and I refuse to be a participant in the demise. It might be too late but I can die in peace that I didn't contribute. What is "success" when it just means you stay a  "successful" pawn and the overlords get ultimate control over the minions. This is what "they" are counting on; people to afraid to lose a little while they gain everything.
 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #61 on: October 09, 2017, 12:05:08 am »
So blocking every port but 53, 80 and 443 is not good enough.  I need a better router. 

Where's that $450 stripped version of Windows 10 I am hearing about??? 

Offline Lightages

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #62 on: October 09, 2017, 12:30:45 am »
I empathize with you completely. I still basically run WIn7 and almost no Linux at all. The problem is that as long as nobody demands support for Linux and just goes along with the status quo nothing will happen to change it. Giving into Win10 just takes it a step further and things will get worse. I can live with certain losses by switching away from Windows because the losses of continuing with Windows will outweigh the benefits. I sincerely believe that this is the turning point of civilization and freedom. We are somewhere in the knee in the curve and I refuse to be a participant in the demise. It might be too late but I can die in peace that I didn't contribute. What is "success" when it just means you stay a  "successful" pawn and the overlords get ultimate control over the minions. This is what "they" are counting on; people to afraid to lose a little while they gain everything.

We are still talking about a OS aren't we? Perhaps you should go back to Win98 and really stick it too "them".

Written on my Linux PC with keyboard resting on my Surface RT tablet (doing an upgrade) sitting on my Windows 10 laptop.

I am talking about an OS, the philosophy behind it, and the danger to us. I already spoke about going to Linux. WTF is your point?
 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #63 on: October 09, 2017, 01:26:45 am »
Looks like the 1703 upgrade broke my VirtualBox 5.1.4-110228.   Downloaded 5.1.28 (latest) and running XP to post this.  Unlike MS, this upgrade seems painless. 

Also, I tried blocking port 443 for fun.  Have wireshark running now.  Funny stuff.   Watching the traffic, I feel like I am sticking it to the man.   :-DD

Offline IanB

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #64 on: October 09, 2017, 01:38:23 am »
Looks like the 1703 upgrade broke my VirtualBox 5.1.4-110228.   Downloaded 5.1.28 (latest) and running XP to post this.  Unlike MS, this upgrade seems painless.

I installed Windows 10 on a VM that I use for software testing, and got annoyed when it started eating CPU and spinning the disk to download updates. I disabled the update services and now it is blissfully quiet  :)
 

Offline rdl

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #65 on: October 09, 2017, 02:56:02 am »
Windows 10, version 1703 Diagnostic Data

In my opinion, 90% or more of this is none of their damn business and should not be necessary for "diagnostics" (figuring out why something doesn't work right).

The diagnostic related services are one of the first I shut down in any Windows 7 installation. Can they easily be turned off in Windows 10? I'm guessing "No" on the easily part.



https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/configuration/windows-diagnostic-data

 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #66 on: October 09, 2017, 03:07:00 am »
Looks like the 1703 upgrade broke my VirtualBox 5.1.4-110228.   Downloaded 5.1.28 (latest) and running XP to post this.  Unlike MS, this upgrade seems painless.

I installed Windows 10 on a VM that I use for software testing, and got annoyed when it started eating CPU and spinning the disk to download updates. I disabled the update services and now it is blissfully quiet  :)

10 running 10?

I use VirtualBox to run XP to support my old apps that will not run under 10.   I have found one Big plus.  I own Office XP and when I run it, it would crash on 10 prior to the 1703.  I thought it strange that 10 would not run their own apps.  It appears they fixed it.

I shut off everything related to the network and just let wireshark sit for a half hour.   It's pretty interesting.  You can see them trying to send data using the 443 port.  The hit the DNS and it all looks fine, then they go back to their site.  They keep trying and eventually figure out to try port 80.  Then we get a flood (I left 80 open).    Then they try to again connect on 443.  On and on it goes.    Looks like a fair number of addresses if you wanted to try and filter it. 

Offline IanB

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #67 on: October 09, 2017, 06:10:32 am »
10 running 10?

Actually 7 running 10.
 

Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #68 on: October 09, 2017, 08:03:54 am »
the real joke is that "professional" software never used to run on windows (the toy o.s.)

you used to have to run it on Solaris, Irix or some other unix variant.

 

Offline HoracioDos

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #69 on: October 09, 2017, 11:41:09 am »
So blocking every port but 53, 80 and 443 is not good enough.  I need a better router. 
Hi Joe

Perhaps you may find this thread useful.
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r30222844-Stop-Windows-10-From-Spying-On-You-36-DNS-Addresses-to-host-file
 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #70 on: October 09, 2017, 10:21:12 pm »
So blocking every port but 53, 80 and 443 is not good enough.  I need a better router. 
Hi Joe

Perhaps you may find this thread useful.
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r30222844-Stop-Windows-10-From-Spying-On-You-36-DNS-Addresses-to-host-file
Thanks!  Not too surprised that others have traveled this same path.  It looks like it may be doable. 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #71 on: October 09, 2017, 10:38:33 pm »
Thanks!  Not too surprised that others have traveled this same path.  It looks like it may be doable.
Just be aware that Microsoft can change its service addresses on a whim, and that there are reports of Windows 10 circumventing the hosts file altogether. If you block anything, make sure to do it elsewhere in your network.

There's another Windows 10 feature I discovered: it circumvents VPNs, unless you've gone through some effort to prevent it to. Worse still, it's not immediately evident this is happening at all. Instead of neatly sending DNS requests over the VPN, like previous versions of Windows do, it sends it out on any and all available network connections available. This is supposedly to ensure the quickest DNS response, but it tends to utterly destroy a lot of the protection granted by the VPN. I don't quite see the gains offsetting the cost.

To me, it's a simple nuisance, but some people in less scrupulous political climates might literally get killed over the feature.
 

Offline Rick Law

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #72 on: October 10, 2017, 01:01:27 am »
Perhaps this is monopoly getting too arrogant.

We (USA) broke up Standard Oil when it had close to 90% of the market back in 1911 creating 5 smaller oil companies to compete against each other.  Again, in the 1980's we broke up AT&T creating 7 baby-bells thereby eliminating the monopoly and again we had competition.

Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Tweeter, so on, either approach or exceeded the 90% mark in their respective markets.  Sherman Act is there to control monopolies from engaging in anti-competitive behavior or misuse its monopolistic power.  It is perhaps time to assess whether it is in the interest of consumers to invoke the Sherman Act.  At the very lease, it may bring some humility back to these all-powerful emperors running these tech behemoths.
 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #73 on: October 10, 2017, 01:30:30 am »
Just be aware that Microsoft can change its service addresses on a whim, and that there are reports of Windows 10 circumventing the hosts file altogether. If you block anything, make sure to do it elsewhere in your network.
No plans to block anything at the PC level.  Trying it out right now.

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #74 on: October 10, 2017, 04:17:20 am »
Warms my heart to stick it to them...   This what happens when you press a few keys on the windows 10 calculator... :-DD



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