Author Topic: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703  (Read 38871 times)

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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #100 on: October 11, 2017, 11:40:05 pm »
When I first saw LINUX, a friend brought it to the house and we were playing with Windows 95 and could not get the serial ports to work.  I was commenting about how serial ports have been around longer than I have and it how bad it was that a team at MS could not figure out how they worked.   Sadly, I ran into National Instruments screwing up the serial ports a few years ago and everything was done for them with the OS.  But I digress.   We were using HP UNIX workstations back then and he fired up LINIX and we launched X.  I was blown away.  It looked like the real deal.   Many years later, the same friend and I went to an electronic store and here on the shelves were boxes of LINUX distributions.  We thought, this is finally it.  They have it in retail stores now.  That's been at least 20 years ago.    :-DD   

I used to get those Infomagic CD sets with all the distributions on it.  No high speed internet in my life back then.  I would spend days going through them.  I was young and had time to play with such things.    LINUX is a young mans game.
That last remark seems to be the unfortunate truth for now, at least when it comes to desktop computing. If you employ a handful of pricey engineers, you don't want them to be experimenting with the software. It just needs to work, or alternatively you need to be able to call someone to make it work right at this moment. Not to mention the liability problems. Just imagine the fallout when  calculations turn out to be erroneous. Even if the software isn't at fault, not using a recommended setup will be a pain to explain.

The server side of things is obviously another story, as is embedded.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #101 on: October 11, 2017, 11:42:09 pm »
The router block solution continues to look pretty good but I think the old router will need to be replaced.  It's pretty old so I am limited what DD-WRT I can run.  So no iprange support.  The iptable entries was getting very large and it was slowing down the old router.  To get around this, I decided to more loosely block the ranges with the mask.  Basically throwing out my access to some sites, somewhere.  Chances are good I would never hit one.

Basically, I run Wireshark with windows sitting idle.  Sort the IPs when I am done.  Lookup who owns them.  If MS or that multi-meadia BS, I add the range to a text file.  Copy paste into this app and copy paste the new script to the router. 

I keep waiting for Windows 10 to go into some sort of cripple mode as it knows it is on the net and sees the DNS return valid IPs.  It keeps trying and fails.  Non-stop.  It's not smart enough to know I am telling them to piss off. 

Graphics stolen from the internet, with my own twist to it.
There are people maintaining these kinds of lists on the internet. I think there are some nice ones that use GitHub, so you can even synchronize them automatically if your setup allows it.
 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #102 on: October 12, 2017, 12:27:57 am »
There are people maintaining these kinds of lists on the internet. I think there are some nice ones that use GitHub, so you can even synchronize them automatically if your setup allows it.
I thing that's really the way to go and if I get a new router, I will look into it.  With this one, I am sort of stuck having to screw with the mask.   Narrowed it down to two of them.  Another Linksys and an ASUS.  Both are powerful enough to be a full blown PC and I am sure can handle what ever scripts I would toss into them.  I want to run with the old router for a while just to make sure I have not missed something stupid.   Those sneaky bastards at Microsoft may have other ways.   :-DD


Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #103 on: October 12, 2017, 12:38:35 am »
I thing that's really the way to go and if I get a new router, I will look into it.  With this one, I am sort of stuck having to screw with the mask.   Narrowed it down to two of them.  Another Linksys and an ASUS.  Both are powerful enough to be a full blown PC and I am sure can handle what ever scripts I would toss into them.  I want to run with the old router for a while just to make sure I have not missed something stupid.   Those sneaky bastards at Microsoft may have other ways.   :-DD
If you have some old hardware around, you could build your own. An x86 router is quite a different beast than one based on an ARM chip. You could use something like pfSense or the free editions of Sophos UTM or XG. That should allow you really fancy configuration options.
 
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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #104 on: October 12, 2017, 01:26:30 am »
I looked up Quartus and it seems they only support some version of Redhat.  Same old same old.
In general the "free" version of Redhat is called Fedora.

Found a pretty good article where someone attempted to get it running under Ubuntu.   Strange as I would have thought Ubuntu would be the major player now days.    But again, I don't follow the GNU trend.    I also looked at LabVIEW.  It's really stripped and again tied to specific versions.   I would not mind changing to LINUX but it seems premature.  Maybe the lack of a common stable version keeps it from moving ahead.  I was using Slackware but started with LXI.  There were so many flavors, it seems like a nightmare for companies to try and support.
In my experience, companies that need to support their software in Linux go where the money (= customers) is. Redhat is used by a good number of large customers for us, while at the same time we need to cater for the broad developers - thus Ubuntu/Mint come into the bandwagon as well. And yes, it is a nightmare if you try to support everything.

I've been using Ubuntu (a few years  old now) and was pretty impressed how easy it was to get going compared with the Slackware days.
I started as a Slackware guy as well, and it's been about 10~15 years that Linux started to be much easier to setup. 
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Offline rdl

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #105 on: October 12, 2017, 01:32:31 am »
I thing that's really the way to go and if I get a new router, I will look into it.
...
If you have some old hardware around, you could build your own. An x86 router is quite a different beast than one based on an ARM chip. You could use something like pfSense or the free editions of Sophos UTM or XG. That should allow you really fancy configuration options.

My last computer project was moving from WHS2011 to FreeNAS. That's pretty much working fine, so next I'm thinking about a pfSense Firewall/Router.
 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #106 on: October 12, 2017, 02:05:58 am »
If you have some old hardware around, you could build your own. An x86 router is quite a different beast than one based on an ARM chip. You could use something like pfSense or the free editions of Sophos UTM or XG. That should allow you really fancy configuration options.
Using the router for a repeater and needed the wireless.  I don't have a junk PC that would be good enough.     

In general the "free" version of Redhat is called Fedora.

I started as a Slackware guy as well, and it's been about 10~15 years that Linux started to be much easier to setup. 
That's hardcore.   :-DD   My wife had bought me a book called maximizing security or something like that.  I was heavy into Slackware at the time.  Countless hours spent reading that book and playing with network security.   Now days I am far too lazy and just want to program some scripts for the router and get on with life.  Difference is back then I was thinking about hacking from the outside, where now it is flipped and apparently the OS is the concern.   

Testing my wife's laptop now and all looks good.   The only problem I ran into is she has a MS email account and used MS for main search engine.   So I had to explain, no more.  :-DD 

Someone could sell a router that would pull down the latest IPs automatically.  Some sort of anti MS spy/update router for the average home user.   Just a thought.  Would need to make it very simple for the elderly to use. 

Offline technix

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #107 on: October 12, 2017, 02:24:33 am »
I know that this limits my dev kit options, but this is one of the reasons I actively decline to use Windows. Updates are shoved down my throat when I was least expecting it. Windows always seemed to have some kind of updates pending and will reboot when I am not actively sitting in front of it, even when there is an ongoing task like long time datalogging happening. I almost never am able to collect a night worth of data without an update interrupting me. This is not even talking about updates breaking things, forcing reinstallations of some apps. If you recently bought or upgraded a computer, you don't even get the option to run an older Windows like Windows 7 unless you pony up a lot of $$$ for an enterprise license.

It is just too sad that a few tool vendors adamantly refuse to provide their tools for another operating system, and the open source community failed to catch up in some cases. (I am making a jab at Cypress PSoC here.) On the operating system end, it is lucky that high quality desktop Linux distributions exist, and Hackintosh is a thing.
 

Offline joeqsmithTopic starter

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #108 on: October 12, 2017, 02:29:37 am »
Quote
why not just buy a Windows 2016 Essential
Lack of trust.   I know the router will block it.  Funny, I went to look it up on the MS website too see how it compares ... Oh yea....  :-DD 



Offline rdl

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #109 on: October 12, 2017, 04:39:30 am »
I must be doing something wrong. I can't find the OEM Windows Server 2016 Essentials for less than $389.
 

Offline rdl

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #110 on: October 12, 2017, 05:11:53 am »
That's what I looked for.

https://www.google.com/search?q=OEM+Windows+Server+2016+Essential

Amazon, Microsoft, Newegg, etc. all around $390

You have a link for cheaper?

 

Offline jaromir

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #111 on: October 12, 2017, 06:31:39 am »
I looked up Quartus and it seems they only support some version of Redhat.  Same old same old.  Found a pretty good article where someone attempted to get it running under Ubuntu.
I've been using Ubuntu (a few years  old now) and was pretty impressed how easy it was to get going compared with the Slackware days.

I think there is not much of deal with software companies actively supporting only one or two major distributions - for most of the cases you can run the software on anything other, perhaps with minor setup. Linux world seems to be very scattered and diverse, but those are just colorful covers of the same principle.
RH was the "standard" Linux distribution for big companies and universities, that's why Altera supports it. But running it under Ubuntu and Ubuntu-alike distributions is just matter of unpacking the installer and running it manually. I can't remember exact details (it was two years ago), but it took a minute of googling while downloading the installer.

As Windows user, I was watching the Linux world for something like 15 years and made transition few years ago, as soon as I was able to locate all Linux tools I need for what I do (and it was no-go route for me before), so I understand your hesitation.
 

Offline rdl

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #112 on: October 12, 2017, 07:00:28 am »
...
This is a Dutch company, selling or using OEM or volume license keys in US may be illegal, but it is legal in the EU.

OEM/Volume license quibbles aside, my only reservation would be that Microsoft usually region locks their license codes.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #113 on: October 12, 2017, 08:47:32 am »
For the trouble and cost on setting up a Linux firewall, why not just buy a Windows 2016 Essential? The completely legit version is only ~$500, and the less legit OEM version can be obtained for ~$120.
End user installing OEM Windows is illegal in US, but I highly doubt MS will ever know it unless you run a company and someone blows the whistle. It's perfectly legal in EU.
I don't think a cheap Linux box plus human labor can be cheaper than $120, maybe not even $500.
I guess you won't be gaming or doing real time audio works on your high security engineering station, so server kernel should be good enough (it is less preemptive than non server kernel).
Why would you spend hundreds of dollars if excellent free products are available? You need to set things up in both cases and a firewall is one of those cases I think Linux has an edge, especially if a developer tailored the distro specifically to the purpose.

Obviously, the point was put a non Microsoft barrier between a Windows computer and the internet, so going for a Microsoft firewall isn't getting you anywhere in that regard either.
 

Offline rdl

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #114 on: October 12, 2017, 09:16:16 am »
I think the idea is to get the new version of Windows but without all the extra garbage that Windows 10 is burdened with. That would probably be worth $120 to a lot of people. I wonder how well it would play with games. However, as I said, region locking could be an issue. True or not I don't know, but I've heard of people not being able to get Windows updates because of using a version outside it's intended region.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #115 on: October 12, 2017, 09:27:11 am »
I mean to use Win2016 as a desktop OS and assume MS is not spying server OSes.
Sorry, I misunderstood. It would be a huge disaster for Microsoft if they'd be caught doing that and the chances of discovery aren't slim with a lot of competent people working with the server versions, so I don't think they'd risk it.
 

Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #116 on: October 12, 2017, 09:58:06 am »
Someone could sell a router that would pull down the latest IPs automatically.  Some sort of anti MS spy/update router for the average home user.   Just a thought.  Would need to make it very simple for the elderly to use.

mine can do that,
i have it downloading addblock lists.
https://www.richud.com/wiki/DGND3700_V1_Transmission_Firmware

i would be very surprised if LEDA does not have a plugin to do it too.
 

Offline HoracioDos

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #117 on: October 12, 2017, 11:10:59 am »
I've been using Ubuntu (a few years  old now) and was pretty impressed how easy it was to get going compared with the Slackware days.
Ubuntu dropped it's own Unity Desktop and returned to Gnome this year. 18.04 LTS will be very interesting
 

Offline HoracioDos

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #118 on: October 12, 2017, 11:55:33 am »
All this thread made me want to create a virtualbox VM with Windows 7 Home Basic and test it under Linux Mint 18.2 Cinnamon edition.

I'm amazed with the results. My notebook is an Asus I5 3rd gen with 8Gb ram and 512GB Samsung SSD. It's not brand new but it still does the job.

VM is 2Gb RAM, 128Mb video memory and 25Gb Storage. I applied SP1 and more than 200 individual fixes through Windows Update. Networking is working through a wifi bridged adapter. Also installed the Extension Pack to get USB2 and USB3 support.

I didn't test USB connection and everything is working really fast. I installed a few small apps like LtSpice, Brymen 257 DMM logger, Korad 3005P PSU and Feeltech 3200 DSG software among others. I'll try some SDR software as soon as I can.

Win7 VM doesn't need to much resources if someone needs to run small apps and it's completely doable.
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #119 on: October 12, 2017, 12:10:49 pm »
All this thread made me want to create a virtualbox VM with Windows 7 Home Basic and test it under Linux Mint 18.2 Cinnamon edition.

I'm amazed with the results. My notebook is an Asus I5 3rd gen with 8Gb ram and 512GB Samsung SSD. It's not brand new but it still does the job.

VM is 2Gb RAM, 128Mb video memory and 25Gb Storage. I applied SP1 and more than 200 individual fixes through Windows Update. Networking is working through a wifi bridged adapter. Also installed the Extension Pack to get USB2 and USB3 support.

I didn't test USB connection and everything is working really fast. I installed a few small apps like LtSpice, Brymen 257 DMM logger, Korad 3005P PSU and Feeltech 3200 DSG software among others. I'll try some SDR software as soon as I can.

Win7 VM doesn't need to much resources if someone needs to run small apps and it's completely doable.
Windows 10 is actually more frugal with resources than Windows 8, and Window 8 is more frugal than 7. They're basically the same OS tweaked and evolved, with a fairly radically different GUI poured on top.
 

Offline HoracioDos

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #120 on: October 12, 2017, 12:22:10 pm »
Windows 10 is actually more frugal with resources than Windows 8, and Window 8 is more frugal than 7. They're basically the same OS tweaked and evolved, with a fairly radically different GUI poured on top.
Good to know.  :-+ I always thought quite the opposite. When I switched from Win7 to Win10 my notebook wasn't as fast as it used to be. To be clear, you are saying it would be better to create a Win10 VM instead of Win7 VM
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #121 on: October 12, 2017, 12:33:47 pm »
Good to know.  :-+ I always thought quite the opposite. When I switched from Win7 to Win10 my notebook wasn't as fast as it used to be. To be clear, you are saying it would be better to create a Win10 VM instead of Win7 VM
Better or worse is a qualification that depends on a lot of things. However, your comment seemed to imply that the VM was quick thanks to Windows 7, but 8.x or 10 shouldn't perform much worse. In theory Windows 10 should perform better, but in practice that difference is probably minute. Other properties of the OS have a much more profound impact on the experience and should therefore be the deciding factors.

Personally, I think Windows 8 strikes a nice balance between the two. It has quite a few of the optimizations of Windows 10, while lacking the nasty new features. If only people could look past the tiles  ::)
 
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Offline stj

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #122 on: October 12, 2017, 12:40:32 pm »
Obviously, the point was put a non Microsoft barrier between a Windows computer and the internet, so going for a Microsoft firewall isn't getting you anywhere in that regard either.

I mean to use Win2016 as a desktop OS and assume MS is not spying server OSes.

i would assume the oposite, there is both big money and politics in corporate espionage.
it would be far more subtle than a keybuffer relay though.
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #123 on: October 12, 2017, 12:46:52 pm »
Windows Server 2016 has telemetry. The attack surface for 2016 is pretty huge actually. We're not rolling it out yet, if ever. There's convergence before EOL of 2012 R2 as we port everything off .Net and into various other bits of tech and onto Linux.

With respect to windows 8, windows 8.1 with classic start was actually pretty good. I think that was the last one I really trusted and was productive on.

Also, Microsoft command line developer tools now ship with telemetry! Fucking joke.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #124 on: October 12, 2017, 12:51:29 pm »
Windows Server 2016 has telemetry. The attack surface for 2016 is pretty huge actually. We're not rolling it out yet, if ever. There's convergence before EOL of 2012 R2 as we port everything off .Net and into various other bits of tech and onto Linux.

With respect to windows 8, windows 8.1 with classic start was actually pretty good. I think that was the last one I really trusted and was productive on.

Also, Microsoft command line developer tools now ship with telemetry! Fucking joke.
You mean the telemetry api, I presume?
 


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