Author Topic: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703  (Read 22019 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline stj

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2156
  • Country: gb
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #100 on: October 11, 2017, 05:14:39 pm »
well wine is pretty good,
not perfect but not bad.

what software are you running?
 

Offline Mr. Scram

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9395
  • Country: 00
  • Display aficionado
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #101 on: October 11, 2017, 05:33:18 pm »
well wine is pretty good,
not perfect but not bad.

what software are you running?
"Pretty good" isn't going to cut it if it's not supported by the developer. As soon as you start mucking about with Wine, you trade one pain for another.
 

Offline stj

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2156
  • Country: gb
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #102 on: October 11, 2017, 06:08:21 pm »
when you consider that "windows" is not a product, but a line,
with lots of sub versions of library's etc. i dont see your argument being any different with a m$ o.s.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9395
  • Country: 00
  • Display aficionado
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #103 on: October 11, 2017, 06:23:18 pm »
when you consider that "windows" is not a product, but a line,
with lots of sub versions of library's etc. i dont see your argument being any different with a m$ o.s.
Sure it is. If you use an OS that's supported by the developer - which typically means Windows 7 and beyond - and problem you find is their problem. If you start mucking with Wine, any problem becomes your problem, without guarantee of anything being fixed.

There is a reason people pay ridiculous amounts of money for things like FirePro and Quadro cards. In some generations, the hardware is even exactly the same as the consumer cards, but the support is completely different.
 

Offline joeqsmith

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6447
  • Country: us
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #104 on: October 11, 2017, 10:12:42 pm »
As I mentioned, NI did or still does support LINUX but the last time I checked, it was very limited.  Similar to their 64-bit version. 
I used to run the Altera tools on a Sun.  I wonder if Xilinx, Altera, Lattice, fully support them now.   
MPLABX runs on it but it seems I ran into a problem with their hardware under LINUX.  That could have been me.   

No problems with tools from Altera, Xilinx and Lattice (yes, I tried all three of them) on Linux Mint 18 (I'd assume the same on Ubuntu).
Again, no problems with MPLABX. It's more snappy and usable on my two core sub-notebook with Linux than on my office-work computer with quad core i7 under windows. Hardware tools do work with no problem at all, at least the ones I tried - PicKit3, ICD3 and Curiosity boards.

I looked up Quartus and it seems they only support some version of Redhat.  Same old same old.  Found a pretty good article where someone attempted to get it running under Ubuntu.   Strange as I would have thought Ubuntu would be the major player now days.    But again, I don't follow the GNU trend.    I also looked at LabVIEW.  It's really stripped and again tied to specific versions.   I would not mind changing to LINUX but it seems premature.  Maybe the lack of a common stable version keeps it from moving ahead.  I was using Slackware but started with LXI.  There were so many flavors, it seems like a nightmare for companies to try and support. 

I've been using Ubuntu (a few years  old now) and was pretty impressed how easy it was to get going compared with the Slackware days. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline Mr. Scram

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9395
  • Country: 00
  • Display aficionado
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #105 on: October 11, 2017, 11:02:48 pm »
I looked up Quartus and it seems they only support some version of Redhat.  Same old same old.  Found a pretty good article where someone attempted to get it running under Ubuntu.   Strange as I would have thought Ubuntu would be the major player now days.    But again, I don't follow the GNU trend.    I also looked at LabVIEW.  It's really stripped and again tied to specific versions.   I would not mind changing to LINUX but it seems premature.  Maybe the lack of a common stable version keeps it from moving ahead.  I was using Slackware but started with LXI.  There were so many flavors, it seems like a nightmare for companies to try and support. 

I've been using Ubuntu (a few years  old now) and was pretty impressed how easy it was to get going compared with the Slackware days.
Currently, I see two problems with the various Linux flavours. Like you say, Ubuntu really is quite good out of the box. However, as we've established, the support from manufacturers in some areas isn't enough to make it a viable alternative. Professionals generally don't have the luxury of tinkering with things too much.

Another problem I see is that things quickly become murky when you can't use the GUI to set or install something. That seems to be a bit more common than it is in Windows. I'm not saying that's Windows always provides a streamlined experience, quite on the contrary, but there generally is some ancient tool available to do what you need to do. If you're not a Linux veteran, getting something done outside of the GUI often boils down to the fervent Googling and trying of what basically are magic spells. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't, and the how and why generally is rather unclear. To make matters worse: the GUI experience often is quite different from distro to distro, with the same distro even offering several desktop environments. The most consistent experience is the CLI, but that has the aforementioned problem of a very steep learning.

I'd really wish Linux would finally become a fully viable alternative to Microsoft and Apple products. For general day to day computer use, browsing and multimedia consumption, I think it's mostly there. Maybe 2018 will finally be the year of Linux?  ;D
 

Offline joeqsmith

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6447
  • Country: us
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #106 on: October 11, 2017, 11:26:21 pm »
Maybe 2018 will finally be the year of Linux?  ;D
When I first saw LINUX, a friend brought it to the house and we were playing with Windows 95 and could not get the serial ports to work.  I was commenting about how serial ports have been around longer than I have and it how bad it was that a team at MS could not figure out how they worked.   Sadly, I ran into National Instruments screwing up the serial ports a few years ago and everything was done for them with the OS.  But I digress.   We were using HP UNIX workstations back then and he fired up LINIX and we launched X.  I was blown away.  It looked like the real deal.   Many years later, the same friend and I went to an electronic store and here on the shelves were boxes of LINUX distributions.  We thought, this is finally it.  They have it in retail stores now.  That's been at least 20 years ago.    :-DD   

I used to get those Infomagic CD sets with all the distributions on it.  No high speed internet in my life back then.  I would spend days going through them.  I was young and had time to play with such things.    LINUX is a young mans game.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6447
  • Country: us
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #107 on: October 11, 2017, 11:38:22 pm »
The router block solution continues to look pretty good but I think the old router will need to be replaced.  It's pretty old so I am limited what DD-WRT I can run.  So no iprange support.  The iptable entries was getting very large and it was slowing down the old router.  To get around this, I decided to more loosely block the ranges with the mask.  Basically throwing out my access to some sites, somewhere.  Chances are good I would never hit one.

Basically, I run Wireshark with windows sitting idle.  Sort the IPs when I am done.  Lookup who owns them.  If MS or that multi-meadia BS, I add the range to a text file.  Copy paste into this app and copy paste the new script to the router. 

I keep waiting for Windows 10 to go into some sort of cripple mode as it knows it is on the net and sees the DNS return valid IPs.  It keeps trying and fails.  Non-stop.  It's not smart enough to know I am telling them to piss off. 

Graphics stolen from the internet, with my own twist to it.
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline Mr. Scram

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9395
  • Country: 00
  • Display aficionado
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #108 on: October 11, 2017, 11:40:05 pm »
When I first saw LINUX, a friend brought it to the house and we were playing with Windows 95 and could not get the serial ports to work.  I was commenting about how serial ports have been around longer than I have and it how bad it was that a team at MS could not figure out how they worked.   Sadly, I ran into National Instruments screwing up the serial ports a few years ago and everything was done for them with the OS.  But I digress.   We were using HP UNIX workstations back then and he fired up LINIX and we launched X.  I was blown away.  It looked like the real deal.   Many years later, the same friend and I went to an electronic store and here on the shelves were boxes of LINUX distributions.  We thought, this is finally it.  They have it in retail stores now.  That's been at least 20 years ago.    :-DD   

I used to get those Infomagic CD sets with all the distributions on it.  No high speed internet in my life back then.  I would spend days going through them.  I was young and had time to play with such things.    LINUX is a young mans game.
That last remark seems to be the unfortunate truth for now, at least when it comes to desktop computing. If you employ a handful of pricey engineers, you don't want them to be experimenting with the software. It just needs to work, or alternatively you need to be able to call someone to make it work right at this moment. Not to mention the liability problems. Just imagine the fallout when  calculations turn out to be erroneous. Even if the software isn't at fault, not using a recommended setup will be a pain to explain.

The server side of things is obviously another story, as is embedded.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9395
  • Country: 00
  • Display aficionado
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #109 on: October 11, 2017, 11:42:09 pm »
The router block solution continues to look pretty good but I think the old router will need to be replaced.  It's pretty old so I am limited what DD-WRT I can run.  So no iprange support.  The iptable entries was getting very large and it was slowing down the old router.  To get around this, I decided to more loosely block the ranges with the mask.  Basically throwing out my access to some sites, somewhere.  Chances are good I would never hit one.

Basically, I run Wireshark with windows sitting idle.  Sort the IPs when I am done.  Lookup who owns them.  If MS or that multi-meadia BS, I add the range to a text file.  Copy paste into this app and copy paste the new script to the router. 

I keep waiting for Windows 10 to go into some sort of cripple mode as it knows it is on the net and sees the DNS return valid IPs.  It keeps trying and fails.  Non-stop.  It's not smart enough to know I am telling them to piss off. 

Graphics stolen from the internet, with my own twist to it.
There are people maintaining these kinds of lists on the internet. I think there are some nice ones that use GitHub, so you can even synchronize them automatically if your setup allows it.
 

Offline joeqsmith

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6447
  • Country: us
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #110 on: October 12, 2017, 12:27:57 am »
There are people maintaining these kinds of lists on the internet. I think there are some nice ones that use GitHub, so you can even synchronize them automatically if your setup allows it.
I thing that's really the way to go and if I get a new router, I will look into it.  With this one, I am sort of stuck having to screw with the mask.   Narrowed it down to two of them.  Another Linksys and an ASUS.  Both are powerful enough to be a full blown PC and I am sure can handle what ever scripts I would toss into them.  I want to run with the old router for a while just to make sure I have not missed something stupid.   Those sneaky bastards at Microsoft may have other ways.   :-DD

How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline Mr. Scram

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9395
  • Country: 00
  • Display aficionado
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #111 on: October 12, 2017, 12:38:35 am »
I thing that's really the way to go and if I get a new router, I will look into it.  With this one, I am sort of stuck having to screw with the mask.   Narrowed it down to two of them.  Another Linksys and an ASUS.  Both are powerful enough to be a full blown PC and I am sure can handle what ever scripts I would toss into them.  I want to run with the old router for a while just to make sure I have not missed something stupid.   Those sneaky bastards at Microsoft may have other ways.   :-DD
If you have some old hardware around, you could build your own. An x86 router is quite a different beast than one based on an ARM chip. You could use something like pfSense or the free editions of Sophos UTM or XG. That should allow you really fancy configuration options.
 
The following users thanked this post: rdl

Offline rsjsouza

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3938
  • Country: us
  • Eternally curious
    • Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #112 on: October 12, 2017, 01:26:30 am »
I looked up Quartus and it seems they only support some version of Redhat.  Same old same old.
In general the "free" version of Redhat is called Fedora.

Found a pretty good article where someone attempted to get it running under Ubuntu.   Strange as I would have thought Ubuntu would be the major player now days.    But again, I don't follow the GNU trend.    I also looked at LabVIEW.  It's really stripped and again tied to specific versions.   I would not mind changing to LINUX but it seems premature.  Maybe the lack of a common stable version keeps it from moving ahead.  I was using Slackware but started with LXI.  There were so many flavors, it seems like a nightmare for companies to try and support.
In my experience, companies that need to support their software in Linux go where the money (= customers) is. Redhat is used by a good number of large customers for us, while at the same time we need to cater for the broad developers - thus Ubuntu/Mint come into the bandwagon as well. And yes, it is a nightmare if you try to support everything.

I've been using Ubuntu (a few years  old now) and was pretty impressed how easy it was to get going compared with the Slackware days.
I started as a Slackware guy as well, and it's been about 10~15 years that Linux started to be much easier to setup. 
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline rdl

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3030
  • Country: us
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #113 on: October 12, 2017, 01:32:31 am »
I thing that's really the way to go and if I get a new router, I will look into it.
...
If you have some old hardware around, you could build your own. An x86 router is quite a different beast than one based on an ARM chip. You could use something like pfSense or the free editions of Sophos UTM or XG. That should allow you really fancy configuration options.

My last computer project was moving from WHS2011 to FreeNAS. That's pretty much working fine, so next I'm thinking about a pfSense Firewall/Router.
 

Offline joeqsmith

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6447
  • Country: us
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #114 on: October 12, 2017, 02:05:58 am »
If you have some old hardware around, you could build your own. An x86 router is quite a different beast than one based on an ARM chip. You could use something like pfSense or the free editions of Sophos UTM or XG. That should allow you really fancy configuration options.
Using the router for a repeater and needed the wireless.  I don't have a junk PC that would be good enough.     

In general the "free" version of Redhat is called Fedora.

I started as a Slackware guy as well, and it's been about 10~15 years that Linux started to be much easier to setup. 
That's hardcore.   :-DD   My wife had bought me a book called maximizing security or something like that.  I was heavy into Slackware at the time.  Countless hours spent reading that book and playing with network security.   Now days I am far too lazy and just want to program some scripts for the router and get on with life.  Difference is back then I was thinking about hacking from the outside, where now it is flipped and apparently the OS is the concern.   

Testing my wife's laptop now and all looks good.   The only problem I ran into is she has a MS email account and used MS for main search engine.   So I had to explain, no more.  :-DD 

Someone could sell a router that would pull down the latest IPs automatically.  Some sort of anti MS spy/update router for the average home user.   Just a thought.  Would need to make it very simple for the elderly to use. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline blueskull

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 13853
  • Country: cn
  • Power Electronics Guy
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #115 on: October 12, 2017, 02:18:41 am »
For the trouble and cost on setting up a Linux firewall, why not just buy a Windows 2016 Essential? The completely legit version is only ~$500, and the less legit OEM version can be obtained for ~$120.
End user installing OEM Windows is illegal in US, but I highly doubt MS will ever know it unless you run a company and someone blows the whistle. It's perfectly legal in EU.
I don't think a cheap Linux box plus human labor can be cheaper than $120, maybe not even $500.
I guess you won't be gaming or doing real time audio works on your high security engineering station, so server kernel should be good enough (it is less preemptive than non server kernel).
 

Online technix

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3320
  • Country: cn
  • From Shanghai With Love
    • My Untitled Blog
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #116 on: October 12, 2017, 02:24:33 am »
I know that this limits my dev kit options, but this is one of the reasons I actively decline to use Windows. Updates are shoved down my throat when I was least expecting it. Windows always seemed to have some kind of updates pending and will reboot when I am not actively sitting in front of it, even when there is an ongoing task like long time datalogging happening. I almost never am able to collect a night worth of data without an update interrupting me. This is not even talking about updates breaking things, forcing reinstallations of some apps. If you recently bought or upgraded a computer, you don't even get the option to run an older Windows like Windows 7 unless you pony up a lot of $$$ for an enterprise license.

It is just too sad that a few tool vendors adamantly refuse to provide their tools for another operating system, and the open source community failed to catch up in some cases. (I am making a jab at Cypress PSoC here.) On the operating system end, it is lucky that high quality desktop Linux distributions exist, and Hackintosh is a thing.
 

Offline joeqsmith

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6447
  • Country: us
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #117 on: October 12, 2017, 02:29:37 am »
Quote
why not just buy a Windows 2016 Essential
Lack of trust.   I know the router will block it.  Funny, I went to look it up on the MS website too see how it compares ... Oh yea....  :-DD 


How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline blueskull

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 13853
  • Country: cn
  • Power Electronics Guy
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #118 on: October 12, 2017, 02:37:13 am »
If you recently bought or upgraded a computer, you don't even get the option to run an older Windows like Windows 7 unless you pony up a lot of $$$ for an enterprise license.

Download Win10 ISO, extract essential drivers from WIM, patch them to Win7 ISO and there you go.

I am making a jab at Cypress PSoC here.

Open source community doesn't like to write EDA tools (place & route & bitstream, aka FPGA stuff). Yosys is probably the only modern exception.
 

Offline rdl

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3030
  • Country: us
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #119 on: October 12, 2017, 04:39:30 am »
I must be doing something wrong. I can't find the OEM Windows Server 2016 Essentials for less than $389.
 

Offline blueskull

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 13853
  • Country: cn
  • Power Electronics Guy
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #120 on: October 12, 2017, 04:45:31 am »
I must be doing something wrong. I can't find the OEM Windows Server 2016 Essentials for less than $389.

Keyword: essential.
 

Offline rdl

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3030
  • Country: us
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #121 on: October 12, 2017, 05:11:53 am »
That's what I looked for.

https://www.google.com/search?q=OEM+Windows+Server+2016+Essential

Amazon, Microsoft, Newegg, etc. all around $390

You have a link for cheaper?

 

Offline blueskull

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 13853
  • Country: cn
  • Power Electronics Guy
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #122 on: October 12, 2017, 05:46:29 am »
That's what I looked for.

https://www.google.com/search?q=OEM+Windows+Server+2016+Essential

Amazon, Microsoft, Newegg, etc. all around $390

You have a link for cheaper?

This: https://softwarelicense4u.com/windows-server-2016-essentials?gclid=CjwKCAjwgvfOBRB7EiwAeP7eho8axPYB5oIeWvnWTYoEUviltuYsMNuVZKMVMy2QXpAs6CdVPUOfAhoCi_sQAvD_BwE

This is a Dutch company, selling or using OEM or volume license keys in US may be illegal, but it is legal in the EU.
 

Offline jaromir

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 286
  • Country: sk
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #123 on: October 12, 2017, 06:31:39 am »
I looked up Quartus and it seems they only support some version of Redhat.  Same old same old.  Found a pretty good article where someone attempted to get it running under Ubuntu.
I've been using Ubuntu (a few years  old now) and was pretty impressed how easy it was to get going compared with the Slackware days.

I think there is not much of deal with software companies actively supporting only one or two major distributions - for most of the cases you can run the software on anything other, perhaps with minor setup. Linux world seems to be very scattered and diverse, but those are just colorful covers of the same principle.
RH was the "standard" Linux distribution for big companies and universities, that's why Altera supports it. But running it under Ubuntu and Ubuntu-alike distributions is just matter of unpacking the installer and running it manually. I can't remember exact details (it was two years ago), but it took a minute of googling while downloading the installer.

As Windows user, I was watching the Linux world for something like 15 years and made transition few years ago, as soon as I was able to locate all Linux tools I need for what I do (and it was no-go route for me before), so I understand your hesitation.
 

Offline rdl

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3030
  • Country: us
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #124 on: October 12, 2017, 07:00:28 am »
...
This is a Dutch company, selling or using OEM or volume license keys in US may be illegal, but it is legal in the EU.

OEM/Volume license quibbles aside, my only reservation would be that Microsoft usually region locks their license codes.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf