Author Topic: Windows 10 incompatibilities for EEVBLOG fans  (Read 31055 times)

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Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Windows 10 incompatibilities for EEVBLOG fans
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2015, 12:59:27 pm »
Good news. The PCB inspection camera Dave reviewed EEVblog #566, the Andonstar, has a digital signer called Microsoft :-+. So I guess this won't become junk if and when I upgrade to Windows 10.

Two more sleeps to go for Windows 10  :=\, but I will be holding off until no tales of woe with Windows 10 shows up on this thread after a month  :popcorn:.
 

Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Windows 10 incompatibilities for EEVBLOG fans
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2015, 02:31:50 am »
One feature of Windows 10 reported by the media... you HAVE to install updates when Microsoft tells you to. You have no option not to install updates.

Dangerous for four reasons:

1. If they release an update with a bug or a security flaw, you might be stuffed.
2. Over time, Microsoft can morph their business model to introduce revenue raising schemes, such as forced cloud subscriptions.
3. Some PC's need to be isolated from the Internet, such as test systems. No internet.
4. Some PC's used as monitoring systems should not be rebooted automatically.

I remember a few years ago, the clowns at Microsoft introduced an update that overwrote your settings not to reboot after an update and they did not tell you they had done it. Next update, the PC rebooted whilst I was at a meeting. I lost 4 hours work thanks to that stuff up by Microsoft and that I had not saved my work in the meantime). Ever since then, I don't trust Big Brother to know what is good for me.

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Online BravoV

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Re: Windows 10 incompatibilities for EEVBLOG fans
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2015, 02:39:31 am »
One feature of Windows 10 reported by the media... you HAVE to install updates when Microsoft tells you to. You have no option not to install updates.

Does this mean Win 10 can not run "offline' for a very long period ? Whats the max time before it complains that it needs to call "home" ?

Say like for example, at the 1st time installation from the scratch is fine, like updating/downloading from internet with the latest patches. Once finished, I'm going to bring the machine offline for very long period say like for years in an isolated environment, so no luck for such example case ?  :-//

Offline c4757p

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Re: Windows 10 incompatibilities for EEVBLOG fans
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2015, 02:49:53 am »
So you don't even have the option?

Nope. Was going to give it a try, but that's as much of a try as I need.
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Offline Lightages

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Re: Windows 10 incompatibilities for EEVBLOG fans
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2015, 03:25:17 am »
I am definitely not going to try it until a few months have passed and people discover all the "gotchas".
 

Online janoc

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Re: Windows 10 incompatibilities for EEVBLOG fans
« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2015, 07:51:03 am »
Only the "home" edition (for now at least). Business has got the option to hold and reject updates and enterprise is going the full custom WSUS route, same as W7/W8. It seems that you can also enable full control over updates via group policy setting.

So basically it is auto updates for casual users. Generally a good idea in my opinion, although some pitfalls await.

Microsoft has backtracked already because they have managed to release a broken Nvidia drivers to their pre-release users, causing an uproar - even before the product is officially out  :palm:

There is an optional patch/tool that will restore the ability to disable/hide an update for the home users already:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3073930

I guess this tool comes preinstalled with the higher versions of Windows 10?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 01:18:22 pm by janoc »
 

Offline Jeroen3

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Re: Windows 10 incompatibilities for EEVBLOG fans
« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2015, 08:31:34 am »
1. If they release an update with a bug or a security flaw, you might be stuffed.
2. Over time, Microsoft can morph their business model to introduce revenue raising schemes, such as forced cloud subscriptions.
3. Some PC's need to be isolated from the Internet, such as test systems. No internet.
4. Some PC's used as monitoring systems should not be rebooted automatically.
1. You're already have Google Chrome and your antivirus fetching automatic updates. You don't even notice, until... https://blog.avast.com/2009/12/10/bad-definition-update/
2. Yes, they will force Bing down your throat.
3. People using windows to test their application should have a developer or pro versions, these have more control over updates.
4. These systems should not be allowed to run Windows at all. Or should run Window Embedded if they insist in using Windows.

On topic:
I can confirm Qt 5.4.1 mingw compiled applications work in Windows 10.
The Kvaser Leaf Light also works.
 

Offline Mechanical Menace

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Re: Windows 10 incompatibilities for EEVBLOG fans
« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2015, 02:02:41 pm »
One feature of Windows 10 reported by the media... you HAVE to install updates when Microsoft tells you to. You have no option not to install updates.

Well it's a good thing automatic updates have never worked for Windows then. Or have they finally fixed that?

Quote
I remember a few years ago, the clowns at Microsoft introduced an update that overwrote your settings not to reboot after an update and they did not tell you they had done it. Next update, the PC rebooted whilst I was at a meeting. I lost 4 hours work thanks to that stuff up by Microsoft and that I had not saved my work in the meantime). Ever since then, I don't trust Big Brother to know what is good for me.

That the one where you can only put off the reboot a few hours?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 08:28:50 pm by Mechanical Menace »
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Offline electrolux

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Re: Windows 10 incompatibilities for EEVBLOG fans
« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2015, 06:42:38 pm »
Great idea!  I'm excited to get rid of 8.1 but worried about compatibility issues with Windows 10. 


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Offline tech5940

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Re: Windows 10 incompatibilities for EEVBLOG fans
« Reply #34 on: July 30, 2015, 01:22:16 am »
Well I installed Windows 10 this afternoon. It was installed as a upgrade from 8.1. Went really smoothly to be honest. Took about 30-45 mins.  I haven't used it long enough to review it but for the sake of this forum I tried several electronics related programs and no issues yet. Programs I tried were:

MPLAB X IDE (whatever the newest version is) with Pickit3. Was able to program a micro without errors.
Arduino latest version. Uploaded a sketch to a UNO with no problems.
Circuit Maker, opened my last project without problems.

Anyway this was by no means an extensive test, just a simple launch the application and see if it loads.  To anyone installing it if your not a fan of "report home" features then I don't recommend using the default express settings as there seems to be a lot of them turned on by default.

So far I'm happy I upgraded to Windows 10. There is an option to revert back to Windows 8.1 should I need to, although I haven't tested that out yet and for now don't intend to.


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Offline TerraHertz

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Re: Windows 10 incompatibilities for EEVBLOG fans
« Reply #35 on: July 30, 2015, 04:41:36 am »
Relevant:
  https://edri.org/microsofts-new-small-print-how-your-personal-data-abused/
Microsoft’s new small print – how your personal data is (ab)used
By Heini Järvinen
Quote
Microsoft has renewed its Privacy Policy and Service Agreement. The new services agreement goes into effect on 1 August 2015, only a couple of days after the launch of the Windows 10 operating system on 29 July.
  ...
Summing up these 45 pages, one can say that Microsoft basically grants itself very broad rights to collect everything you do, say and write with and on your devices in order to sell more targeted advertising or to sell your data to third parties. The company appears to be granting itself the right to share your data either with your consent “or as necessary”.
  ...
“We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to”, for example, “protect their customers” or “enforce the terms governing
the use of the services”.

Why does anyone even entertain the idea that Microsoft can be trusted? At no point in their entire history could they be trusted, and they are not going to change.

Sad thing is, now with XP gone EOL, I probably can't even reinstall XP on a virtual machine and activate it (not that I expect any updates, past or EOL-current).  My only hope if I want to keep using that switch, will be to manually copy that whole system over into a virtual disk, and hope it re-enumerates all the hardware okay.  (and piss away any idea of a clean install with only the switch software installed)

Check out nLite
  http://www.nliteos.com
  http://www.msfn.org/board/
  http://www.msfn.org/board/forum/34-windows-xp/
  http://www.msfn.org/board/forum/177-ntlite/
« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 04:47:42 am by TerraHertz »
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Offline Howardlong

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Re: Windows 10 incompatibilities for EEVBLOG fans
« Reply #36 on: July 30, 2015, 05:05:28 am »
I installed the release build on three machines yesterday and it is far better than the builds of even three or so weeks ago. Amazing what can be achieved in just a few weeks, although one wonders if the releases of such a short time ago were really recent builds.

The UI is oodles more intuitive and I'm finding it very responsive. I am predominently a Windows 8.1 user (woth Classic Shell) and some Windows 7.

Only negative so far is I can't figure out how to reverse the two finger scrolling on the trackpad of one of the devices.
 

Offline corax

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Re: Windows 10 incompatibilities for EEVBLOG fans
« Reply #37 on: July 30, 2015, 04:21:58 pm »
I've been running the Windows 10 developer previews for a while now, and presumably I now have the final build installed.
Altium versions 14 and 15 seem to run fine on it (as well as they did on Windows 7, at least).
 

Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Windows 10 incompatibilities for EEVBLOG fans
« Reply #38 on: July 31, 2015, 07:08:58 am »

Why does anyone even entertain the idea that Microsoft can be trusted? At no point in their entire history could they be trusted, and they are not going to change.


Of course, they can't, or shouldn't, be trusted. No more than any one of the other corporations that collect data on you.... I'll be looking out for more info on what I should be aware of before committing to Windows 10.

But I'm not surprised about this, I knew Microsoft weren't giving Win10 away because they like me.

They might not like you, but they love their shareholders. Microsoft exists for money. Nothing else. Hence one reason why I am a little skeptical of Windows 10 and the Cloud.

Is Big Brother is Watching You? On one hand, we have nothing to be afraid of if we are not doing anything wrong. On the other hand, Big Brother dictates to you what is right, what is wrong and how you need to be controlled. I am afraid we have already entered Brave New World, Winston Smith, and we are not even fully aware of it.
 

Offline amyk

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Re: Windows 10 incompatibilities for EEVBLOG fans
« Reply #39 on: July 31, 2015, 09:41:24 am »
 

Offline Mechanical Menace

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Re: Windows 10 incompatibilities for EEVBLOG fans
« Reply #40 on: July 31, 2015, 01:36:37 pm »
More about the privacy (or the lack thereof)...

https://jonathan.porta.codes/2015/07/30/windows-10-seems-to-have-some-scary-privacy-defaults/

I even check all the default settings on a default Debian desktop install, if you're not going to do the same on any OS you can't really complain. Stupid mistakes can be made by clever people, not every dodgy default is an act of malice.
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Offline rdl

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Re: Windows 10 incompatibilities for EEVBLOG fans
« Reply #41 on: July 31, 2015, 06:11:39 pm »
From what I've been seeing and reading about Windows 10, that crap is never going to be on any of my computers. Looks like nothing but subscription spyware.
 

Offline Bob F.

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Re: Windows 10 incompatibilities for EEVBLOG fans
« Reply #42 on: July 31, 2015, 08:42:42 pm »
Everyone makes you opt-out of everything - Apple, Google, Facebook, etc - and that's only the things you *can* opt out of - most things you can't opt out of if you still want to use their service or software. 

Not to get political, but I laugh myself silly every time someone goes on a rant against the NSA or GCHQ collecting metadata  when google is highly likely to know where you live, where you work, your health, much metadata obtained from what searches you have made and from many of the websites you have visited and, quite possibly, what you had for lunch last Tuesday.  It's almost impossible to be active on the web and not give personally identifiable information to a subsidiary or data-sharing partner of google.

To be honest, if you are concerned about privacy, stop using the internet and your smartphone.  Failing that, run Ghostery or similar in your browser - it blocks most tracking which is about the best you can do.

 

Offline Bob F.

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Re: Windows 10 incompatibilities for EEVBLOG fans
« Reply #43 on: July 31, 2015, 08:45:26 pm »
More about the privacy (or the lack thereof)...

https://jonathan.porta.codes/2015/07/30/windows-10-seems-to-have-some-scary-privacy-defaults/
I'd be more impressed by that article if the page he wrote all that on didn't have both Disqus and Google Analytics trying to track me  ;D
 

Offline ivaylo

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Re: Windows 10 incompatibilities for EEVBLOG fans
« Reply #44 on: July 31, 2015, 10:31:27 pm »
... Microsoft exists for money. Nothing else...
Not the first opinion I see that if they really want to keep making money they should get out of the OS business altogether - https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/microsoft-capitulation-end-windows-everywhere-benedict-evans
Yeah, blasphemy huh...
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Windows 10 incompatibilities for EEVBLOG fans
« Reply #45 on: July 31, 2015, 11:00:43 pm »
... Microsoft exists for money. Nothing else...
Not the first opinion I see that if they really want to keep making money they should get out of the OS business altogether - https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/microsoft-capitulation-end-windows-everywhere-benedict-evans
Yeah, blasphemy huh...
At least Nokia did the smart thing: they shoved all their excess luggage somewhere else and start something new. But that has been Nokia's MO for decades. The list of things Nokia produced is very long.
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Online OZ1LQB

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Re: Windows 10 incompatibilities for EEVBLOG fans
« Reply #46 on: August 01, 2015, 01:43:32 pm »
Hi all..
CH340 usb to serial (arduino clones) works fine
STM nucleo and discovery(st-link) also works
Pickit 2 and 3 works fine
so i am going to stick with windows 10 for sure
all the best from Claus
 

Offline eas

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Re: Windows 10 incompatibilities for EEVBLOG fans
« Reply #47 on: August 01, 2015, 07:17:24 pm »
Everyone makes you opt-out of everything - Apple, Google, Facebook, etc - and that's only the things you *can* opt out of - most things you can't opt out of if you still want to use their service or software. 

Not to get political, but I laugh myself silly every time someone goes on a rant against the NSA or GCHQ collecting metadata  when google is highly likely to know where you live, where you work, your health, much metadata obtained from what searches you have made and from many of the websites you have visited and, quite possibly, what you had for lunch last Tuesday.  It's almost impossible to be active on the web and not give personally identifiable information to a subsidiary or data-sharing partner of google.

To be honest, if you are concerned about privacy, stop using the internet and your smartphone.  Failing that, run Ghostery or similar in your browser - it blocks most tracking which is about the best you can do.

Your fatalism is depressing. Governments, institutions, markets, they can all be influenced. It is rare that withdrawing or capitulating is the best way of exerting influence. More often, it is only the first step in a long shrinking retreat. I think the world works best when power is widely distributed. Cynicism and fatalism works against that, and only serves to concentrate power.

I think people often underestimate corporate power and influence when they obsess over government overreach, particularly because they are often entwined, but insisting that because people may (grudingly) accept a little of one they have no standing to voice concerns about the other is, plain and simple, dangerous bullshit.

There is no simple solution, so don't pretend like running Ghostrey or similar and STFU is an answer.


I'm going slow on Windows 10 for a variety of reasons. I certainly don't need it. My hardware is kind of old. Software compatibility is an issue. Even if everything went perfectly, I'd still have to devote some effort to upgrading, with minimal obvious upside. On top of that, Microsoft has created a cloud of doubt regarding upgrades, updates, etc, which is yet another cost to me with no upside. Indeed, it is a reminder of one of the main reasons I was so happy to get as far from Microsoft as possible. A key part of their business model was and remains creating confusing interlocking licensing terms designed to make you spend more money than needed in order to avoid the hassle. Completely user and customer hostile, and clearly still baked into the DNA of this newer, humbler Microsoft that I'd otherwise be interested in giving a second chance.

 

Offline Jeroen3

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Re: Windows 10 incompatibilities for EEVBLOG fans
« Reply #48 on: August 01, 2015, 07:31:34 pm »
There is no hurry. Windows 7 will continue to work to 2020 and beyond. I'm expecting they'll extend to 2025, but I'm not sure how the the corporations are adapting to Windows 8/10.
We've only just banished the last workstation with xp (yes, there are still many xp machine controllers), and we only have 2 Windows 8 users, and those people have ton's of compatibility problems with even the simplest stuff connecting with Windows Server 2008.

Meanwhile, I "upgraded" my old laptop. It was cleaned up, but the "upgrade" worked 100% fine. You just have to untick that it transmits everything to Microsoft.
And Microsoft just turned WPA2 encryption useless by sharing it with Outlook Contacts and Facebook Friends, I can't wait to see the shitstorm caused by that. Not everyone has IEEE 802.1X.
 

Offline bingo600

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Re: Windows 10 incompatibilities for EEVBLOG fans
« Reply #49 on: August 02, 2015, 07:22:17 am »

More privacy problem disclosure.
http://www.techworm.net/2015/07/by-downloading-windows-10-you-are-allowing-microsoft-to-spy-on-you.html

Whoaa ... I'm glad my primary OS is Linux

/Bingo
 


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