Author Topic: Windows 10 security and privacy concerns.  (Read 62117 times)

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Offline Homer J Simpson

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Windows 10 security and privacy concerns.
« on: August 22, 2015, 11:39:14 pm »

A couple of interesting articles on Windows 10. Sure there is a lot more out there but just came across these.


http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/17/technology/windows-10-privacy/index.html?iid=ob_homepage_tech_pool&iid=obnetwork


http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2015/08/windows_10_privacy_problems_here_s_how_bad_they_are_and_how_to_plug_them.single.html


Here is one of the more interesting ones.


"By default, Microsoft turns your computer into a peer-to-peer node to help it distribute Windows 10 updates, in order to save Microsoft server bandwidth costs. “Microsoft calls it Windows Update Delivery Optimization,” or WUDO."


 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: Windows 10 security and privacy concerns.
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2015, 11:56:04 pm »
In short, I won't be installing any version of Windows on my machines that requires an internet connection to either install or run.
 


Offline Homer J Simpson

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Re: Windows 10 security and privacy concerns.
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2015, 12:52:54 am »
From the windows 10 EULA.

"Finally, we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary."

"Rather than residing as a static software program on your device, key components of Windows are cloud-based. … In order to provide this computing experience, we collect data about you, your device, and the way you use Windows."

Yikes.
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: Windows 10 security and privacy concerns.
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2015, 01:05:37 am »
From the windows 10 EULA.

"Finally, we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary."

"Rather than residing as a static software program on your device, key components of Windows are cloud-based. … In order to provide this computing experience, we collect data about you, your device, and the way you use Windows."

Yikes.

I'd love to see that stand up when Government departments, particularly those who operate in a secure environment, look to replace Windows 7. I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft back-peddle and provide an "Enterprise" version free of cloud-based components. If they don't, they are set to lose a lot of business.

I foresee Government (at least the organisation I work for) will move away from standalone desktops back to the ages of dumb/thin clients where applications are run over the network using Citrix or similar technologies. Data then can be centrally stored and managed.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 01:11:55 am by Halcyon »
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: Windows 10 security and privacy concerns.
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2015, 03:54:13 am »
From the windows 10 EULA.

"Finally, we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary."

"Rather than residing as a static software program on your device, key components of Windows are cloud-based. … In order to provide this computing experience, we collect data about you, your device, and the way you use Windows."

Yikes.

Link?

I don't seem to be able to find those paragraphs in here:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/Retail/Windows/10/UseTerms_Retail_Windows_10_English.htm

Edit: unless the quotes are some interpretation not the actual text.

 

Offline rdl

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Re: Windows 10 security and privacy concerns.
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2015, 04:32:11 am »
Microsoft Privacy Statement

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement/default.aspx

Just hit ctrl + F and type disclose.

For additional info, read this.

Microsoft Services Agreement

https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/servicesagreement/default.aspx

You basically agree to this crap if you install Windows 10 or use any other Microsoft "service", skype, bing, etc.

Windows 10 is spyware disguised as an operating system. I can't believe anyone would install garbage like this. It offers absolutely nothing that benefits the average person, yet people seem to feel they need to install it. Microsoft obviously came to the conclusion that they could make more money by selling the personal data and information of Windows 10 users than they could by selling them an operating system.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 04:55:18 am by rdl »
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: Windows 10 security and privacy concerns.
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2015, 05:28:17 am »
I haven't seen anything yet to alleviate my concerns about the privacy raping MS is up to. I don't think W10 will ever be on anything own.
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: Windows 10 security and privacy concerns.
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2015, 07:02:33 am »
I do understand the problems with other companies such as Google and privacy. I have taken some steps to lower my exposure and it is a never ending and losing battle. The difference with W10 is that you give the rights to everything you have and do with your computer, everything, all files, all emails, everything! That is a step up from cookies and web tracking and the like.
 

Offline TheElectricChicken

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Re: Windows 10 security and privacy concerns.
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2015, 08:02:43 am »
This sort of inevitable corporate behavior is why I use Linux Mint, or Ubuntu, or OpenSuse, or Elementary OS. i have a computer that can choose all these and a version of windows at boot time. Windows is just for old games.  Not for work.
 

Offline G7PSK

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Re: Windows 10 security and privacy concerns.
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2015, 08:25:20 am »
Once you have installed you free windows 10 the demands for money start to roll in when you want to use it, unless you are of course in the know, things like you want to play a DVD or CD Microsoft want you to pay for that want to play solitaire you pay for that these are just a few of the things I have read about, I am sure the list will be far longer in future.
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Windows 10 security and privacy concerns.
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2015, 08:41:14 am »
Just had my sister's lap[top over for the week so it could be updated. It tried to do the Win10 download ( win 8.1 home) and she got hard capped. Did the resat of the updates ( started and went to work so it would not worry me) and took it back, along with a new router with Wifi, so she can do wireless data on the phone and tablet as well. She will have to ignore those win 10 upgrade prompts, I explained it is the new PAYG model, which is opposed to the buy once model.
 

Offline Mechanical Menace

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Re: Windows 10 security and privacy concerns.
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2015, 09:46:12 am »
From the windows 10 EULA.

"Finally, we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary."

That's standard and just complying with various laws around the world. This seems to only apply to your emails and storage on MS servers too. I very much doubt they mean files on your hard drive and nowhere else.

Quote
"Rather than residing as a static software program on your device, key components of Windows are cloud-based. … In order to provide this computing experience, we collect data about you, your device, and the way you use Windows."

Yikes.

Again that's sort of standard even with non-cloud based FOSS, if there's no opt out though then it is a real problem.

This sort of inevitable corporate behavior is why I use Linux Mint, or Ubuntu, or OpenSuse, or Elementary OS. i have a computer that can choose all these and a version of windows at boot time. Windows is just for old games.  Not for work.

Trust me Ubuntu, Mint, and OpenSuse definitely do similar data collection. Program usage statistics and crash reports etc. You may trust them more to only do what they say they will with the info (I personally don't) but they have you agree to much the same when you click through the T&Cs without reading them ;)
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 09:50:51 am by Mechanical Menace »
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Offline Neganur

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Re: Windows 10 security and privacy concerns.
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2015, 10:17:42 am »
"By default, Microsoft turns your computer into a peer-to-peer node to help it distribute Windows 10 updates, in order to save Microsoft server bandwidth costs. “Microsoft calls it Windows Update Delivery Optimization,” or WUDO."

I don't really see this as outrageous, most modern mmo games have done this for quite a while already.
 

Offline Mechanical Menace

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Re: Windows 10 security and privacy concerns.
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2015, 10:29:48 am »
"By default, Microsoft turns your computer into a peer-to-peer node to help it distribute Windows 10 updates, in order to save Microsoft server bandwidth costs. “Microsoft calls it Windows Update Delivery Optimization,” or WUDO."

I don't really see this as outrageous, most modern mmo games have done this for quite a while already.

And Steam. And tbh if it speeds up updates I'm prepared to share some of my upload, MSs =update servers are sooo slow, especially when you don't use Windows often so always have a bucket load of updates when you fire it up lol. I've wanted Linux distros and the BSDs to do something similar for a while to make it easier for people to "give back to the community" in some small way. But you should have an opt out methinks, or be able to set the maximum share ratio at a minimum.
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Offline Mechanical Menace

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Re: Windows 10 security and privacy concerns.
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2015, 11:46:13 am »
You should have an opt IN.

Oh definitely but I'm a pragmatist and not even Mozilla take the opt in route. On a new install of any of their software you have to opt out of everything. Same with a lot of Linux distros, the only thing you opt into instead of out of is using propriety software :/

EDIT: I think I should add I'm a big OSS fan and occasional dev too.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 11:50:55 am by Mechanical Menace »
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Offline madires

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Re: Windows 10 security and privacy concerns.
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2015, 01:30:20 pm »
"Finally, we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary."

Quoted out of context  :palm:

Reference:
- https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement/default.aspx
- go to "Reasons We Share Personal Data", click "learn more"

Quote
"Rather than residing as a static software program on your device, key components of Windows are cloud-based. … In order to provide this computing experience, we collect data about you, your device, and the way you use Windows."

Again, quoted out of context  :palm:

BTW, the next sentence is: "And because Windows is personal to you, we give you choices about the personal data we collect and how we use it."

Reference:
- https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement/default.aspx
- go to "Windows", click "learn more" for more details

I'm not a windows fanboy, but common sense is very helpful when dealing with "quality journalism".
 

Offline TheElectricChicken

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Re: Windows 10 security and privacy concerns.
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2015, 01:44:43 pm »
Linux is private because regardless of whether you're using  Linux Mint, or Ubuntu, or OpenSuse, or Elementary OS,

No linux system wants your credit card details for purchasing the operating system or to activate anything. It's all free. When you install it, it just asks what kind of keyboard layout you want and what timezone. Free is freedom.

Freedom from things like the SONY hack where everyone's personal details get stolen, I don't care if I'm on the news tomorrow as one of 50 million people who had their timezone information stolen. I'll sleep safe.
 

Offline rdl

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Re: Windows 10 security and privacy concerns.
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2015, 02:07:34 pm »
The thing is, Windows 10 offers nothing. What is so great about it that people feel they should give away personal information and data to Microsoft in exchange for nothing? Name one thing worth that price.

Quote
Full text

Microsoft uses the data we collect for three basic purposes, described in more detail below: (1) to operate our business and provide (including improving and personalizing) the services we offer, (2) to send communications, including promotional communications, and (3) to display advertising.

Number 1 means "for purposes of resale". They need money to operate. Not a single one of those reasons does anything for me.

If you read the part about "Personal Data We Collect", it doesn't take a genius to see the answer is basically "anything and everything we can, by any means possible".
 

Offline TheElectricChicken

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Re: Windows 10 security and privacy concerns.
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2015, 02:19:38 pm »
Name one thing worth that price.

A fast secondhand laptop. !!  oh, wait, you mean why do people spend the money on spyware rather than hardware, not what they'd do with the savings, Sorry.

Quote
What is so great about it that people feel they should give away personal information and data to Microsoft in exchange for nothing?

Blissful ignorance ? The eternal sunshine through an empty mind ? bovine peer pressure ? I guess Microsoft probably spends money to work this out too.
 

Offline madires

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Re: Windows 10 security and privacy concerns.
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2015, 02:45:39 pm »
The thing is, Windows 10 offers nothing. What is so great about it that people feel they should give away personal information and data to Microsoft in exchange for nothing? Name one thing worth that price.

Users don't have to give away their data with Win10, they can disable it as explained by several blogs. The bad thing MS did is the change of the default settings from user friendly (as in Win8) to MS friendly. And you can't use Cortana without a MS account.

The extended support for Win7 ends January 14th 2020. If you're forced to run Win you don't got any choice after that date and have to update to whatever later version. With Win8 you could get another 3 years, but who likes Win8?

Quote
If you read the part about "Personal Data We Collect", it doesn't take a genius to see the answer is basically "anything and everything we can, by any means possible".

The problem is that all major vendors do it that way. If you don't like it, use BSD, Linux or some other OSS, run your own email service and so on.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 08:08:06 pm by madires »
 

Offline Dinsdale

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Re: Windows 10 security and privacy concerns.
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2015, 03:08:04 pm »
Quote
Linux is private because regardless of whether you're using  Linux Mint, or Ubuntu, or OpenSuse, or Elementary OS,
https://www.fsf.org/blogs/rms/ubuntu-spyware-what-to-do

From the article:
"Ubuntu, a widely used and influential GNU/Linux distribution, has installed surveillance code. When the user searches her own local files for a string using the Ubuntu desktop, Ubuntu sends that string to one of Canonical's servers. (Canonical is the company that develops Ubuntu.)"

Ubuntu - An African word meaning: "Slackware is too hard for me"
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 03:09:54 pm by Dinsdale »
This can't be happening.
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: Windows 10 security and privacy concerns.
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2015, 03:14:56 pm »
Microsoft Privacy Statement

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement/default.aspx

Just hit ctrl + F and type disclose.

For additional info, read this.

Microsoft Services Agreement

https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/servicesagreement/default.aspx

You basically agree to this crap if you install Windows 10 or use any other Microsoft "service", skype, bing, etc.

Windows 10 is spyware disguised as an operating system. I can't believe anyone would install garbage like this. It offers absolutely nothing that benefits the average person, yet people seem to feel they need to install it. Microsoft obviously came to the conclusion that they could make more money by selling the personal data and information of Windows 10 users than they could by selling them an operating system.

No luck finding those sentences in there either.
 

Offline TheElectricChicken

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Re: Windows 10 security and privacy concerns.
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2015, 04:51:40 pm »
Quote
Ubuntu - An African word meaning: "Slackware is too hard for me"

 :-DD

"Ubuntu, [...]. When the user searches her own local files for a string using the Ubuntu desktop, Ubuntu sends that string to one of Canonical's servers. (Canonical is the company that develops Ubuntu.)"

I do not use Ubuntu online because it is basically free commercial software now that Ubuntu changed direction. They DID a lot right at the start and took linux to millions of new desktops, but when they went to force everyone to use the Android style buttons as a menu instead of a menu, I gave up on them. I still boot to it and use it for linux games and lots of things, but I don't use that OS online, I choose a different one, usually mint. Mint users thank canonical for making Mint so popular. The search thing is much less than microslomp. Remember First and Foremost that you don't need to give Lunux personal details, it just doesn't ask and never needs verifying.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/preview-privacy-statement

Quote
    When you acquire, install and use the Program software and services, Microsoft collects information about your use of the software and services as well as about the devices and networks on which they operate. Examples of data we may collect include your name, email address, preferences and interests; location, browsing, search and file history; phone call and SMS data; device configuration and sensor data; voice, text and writing input; and application usage. For example, when you:

        install or use Program software and services, we may collect information about your device and applications and use it for purposes such as determining or improving compatibility (e.g., to help devices and apps work together),

        when you use voice input features like speech-to-text, we may collect voice information and use it for purposes such as improving speech processing (e.g., to help the service better translate speech into text),

        when you open a file, we may collect information about the file, the application used to open the file, and how long it takes to use it for purposes such as improving performance (e.g., to help retrieve documents more quickly), or

        when you input text, handwrite notes, or ink comments, we may collect samples of your input to improve these input features, (e.g., to help improve the accuracy of autocomplete and spellcheck).


Is there anything about windows that is not spyware ? I haven't seen it yet. Can't wait until we see on the news that hackers have stolen all this information and selling it online. lol. told you so moment.

Quote
Marine Le Pen denounced widespread espionage – ZDNet France

[...]Marine Le Pen [...] president of the National Front [....] denouncing “widespread spying on French computers via the new Windows 10 operating system.”

 “Windows 10 will absorb the user’s data. These data will be used by Microsoft and can be sold to advertisers and any type of business. Through the computer, in nearly 80% of French households Microsoft sets up a mass of citizens spying and thus violates their privacy, “she wrote.

http://newtechnologies2015.blogspot.fi/2015/07/windows-10-marine-le-pen-denounced.html

I don't see why people don't just save up the money to buy a copy of Linux mint and install that....  :-DD ( I can imagine they can't think straight and so are like "how do I buy something free, it's giving me a stroke" )

No, the salespeople at Harvey Norman won't help you, their commission on nothing is, wait for it, nothing. Just go to the newsagent and buy a magazine with a DVD or just google distrowatch, or phone a friend..
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 05:00:00 pm by TheElectricChicken »
 

Offline rdl

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Re: Windows 10 security and privacy concerns.
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2015, 07:39:24 pm »
What to do after Windows 7 "support" runs out is a dilemma. Though considering the arrogant and deceitful way Microsoft has pushed Windows 10 onto unsuspecting users kind of makes me question whether their support is something I need.

Windows 8 is marginally a better choice than 10, but that's only good for an extra 3 years. Switching most machines to some form of Linux will probably be the solution. I hope within 5 years I can find a Linux distribution that' tolerable. Currently I'm testing Mint, but it lacks polish and their fondness for the color green is irritating. Ubuntu is out of the picture. I wrote them off when they switched to that "unity" interface or whatever it was called.

 


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