Windows 11 is dying....

[SteveThackery]

I have noticed the infantilisation of windows and how it conveys information to the user over the years. I think it is closely tied to the change in corporate culture in silicon valley, namely the younger workforce bringing their Californian politics.

I prefer my machines to act like machines:

Old Windows

IRQ CONFLICT
ILLEGAL OPERATION
0x0EB6ADF770ABA015C056794F774CD2C4

New Windows:

There's been an oopsie poopsie
We're just fixing that up to get you right back on track
We're almost done setting you up to get you nice and comfy

I'm not sure what the problem is here. Neither messages are informative as to what you should do to correct the issue. You'd need to go online hoping somebody else had that error code and posted the solution.

It's about psychology. The former irritates large group of nontechnical people - "why it is giving this technical mumbo jumbo to me". The latter irritates nearly everyone, including technical and nontechnical people.

But the latter three are made up, arent they? Certainly the first one is. What possible use is there in discussing a fictitious error message?

[Siwastaja]

I have noticed the infantilisation of windows and how it conveys information to the user over the years. I think it is closely tied to the change in corporate culture in silicon valley, namely the younger workforce bringing their Californian politics.

I prefer my machines to act like machines:

Old Windows

IRQ CONFLICT
ILLEGAL OPERATION
0x0EB6ADF770ABA015C056794F774CD2C4

New Windows:

There's been an oopsie poopsie
We're just fixing that up to get you right back on track
We're almost done setting you up to get you nice and comfy

I'm not sure what the problem is here. Neither messages are informative as to what you should do to correct the issue. You'd need to go online hoping somebody else had that error code and posted the solution.

It's about psychology. The former irritates large group of nontechnical people - "why it is giving this technical mumbo jumbo to me". The latter irritates nearly everyone, including technical and nontechnical people.

But the latter three are made up, arent they? Certainly the first one is. What possible use is there in discussing a fictitious error message?

No shit Sherlock! Maybe you didn't notice the "old" IRQ CONFLICT thing was made-up, as well.

But John B captured the spirit of those actual messages very well, which are almost too close to that parody. This is called crossing the parody horizon - when you cannot be certain if something was actually made up, or true. Even you as a Windows specialist and MS fanboy were not quite sure if they were bogus or not.

[Randy222]

But the latter three are made up, arent they? Certainly the first one is. What possible use is there in discussing a fictitious error message?

Windoze users would probably be a bit concerned if they booted their fresh Win install (or new laptop or pc) and started to look at the Win Event Viewer. Start installing new stuff or activating new features and then watch all the errors showing in event logs.

I mean, are you concerned about all the EventID 1801 errors that your Win11 is showing this very second? Would you know how to sign efi image, would you even know if you could ignore 1801 error, or what happens in a few months if you do ignore it?

I do agree with other posts, MS now hides errors/issues behind nice words. "Looks like we ran into an issue, will reboot to attempt a fix", which then just lands in some weird recovery mode that nobody knows how to use.

I do recommend anyone with Windoze to run a manual Restore Point (thats a "create a restore point" from any Win search area, and give it a date name. Always do this before Win updates get installed. I turn off all auto-updates, download-&-notify is as close as I get.

[SteveThackery]

No shit Sherlock! Maybe you didn't notice the "old" IRQ CONFLICT thing was made-up, as well.

But John B captured the spirit of those actual messages very well, which are almost too close to that parody. This is called crossing the parody horizon - when you cannot be certain if something was actually made up, or true. Even you as a Windows specialist and MS fanboy were not quite sure if they were bogus or not.

The fact is, I can't recall the wording of any BSOD because it must be 15, perhaps even 20 years since I've seen one. But I agree with you and others: some of the messages from Windows are distinctively unctuous and I dislike them. But the BSODs are so rare I cannot bring myself to care much at all.

But far more important: why do you say I'm an MS fanboy? I challenge you to find one example from all my posts in this thread, or anywhere else, to support that assertion. In fact here is a test question for you: which OS do I prefer - Windows 11 or Linux Mint?

I've stated the answer at least twice in this thread. Go and have a look then come back and eat humble pie.

So that's the OS. As for Microsoft itself, I honestly cannot stir up any strong feelings about the company. Why would I? I don't have any shares, I don't know any of the staff. I don't like very much what they are doing to Windows, but Windows is only an OS, so I can't get exercised about it. I dislike what they've done to Office more strongly, but I definitely don't care much because I've moved to SoftMaker Office.

[SteveThackery]

But the latter three are made up, arent they? Certainly the first one is. What possible use is there in discussing a fictitious error message?

Windoze users would probably be a bit concerned if they booted their fresh Win install (or new laptop or pc) and started to look at the Win Event Viewer. Start installing new stuff or activating new features and then watch all the errors showing in event logs.

"Windoze"!! That is so smart! Your schoolmates must hero worship you.

FYI, every installation of Mint I've ever used shows error messages while it is booting. Most of them, in Windows or Linux, mean nothing and if you ignore them, everything just works fine.

What I don't get - truly - is why you Linux fanboys get so worked up about Windows when most of you don't even use it. It makes me think you are insecure in your position. You guys are fucking weird. It's an OS, for fuck's sake. Grow up.

[m k]

Regarding January updates:

My W10 22H2 had an 26-Jan-26 update, can't find it anymore.
System is installed Dec-19, possibly as W7->W10, no idea what is forked after that.
Some days ago it lost its HDD, some sort of wake up failure, it didn't come back, ctrl-alt-del gave an error dialog, had to power it off.
Events have some TPM and Kernel-General happenings.

One other W10 machine I use so seldom I switch its mains off.
Not a long ago it stopped booting, previous time is so long ago that for a moment I had to wonder why, memory battery was empty.
General location of the machine is very easy so not a real problem.

[Randy222]

"Windoze"!! That is so smart! Your schoolmates must hero worship you.

"Windoze" "MyCrudSoft" are well know labels since about 1980.

I use lots of OS. Crapple MAC (NeXTSTEP/BSD  ), Jobs trying to be Gates, "something different to do same task". It's human nature to reinvent the wheel in effort to get a piece of that money pie.

At least with Linux I can control what tracking crap is in it or not. Windows will soon become completely CopilotOS , this way MS and whomever they sell your meta data too .............. etc.

Right now I am working on server build, Ubuntu 24.04.3LTS Server, default install (no luks, using xfs not ext4), built on a cheap mini pc (n150 16GB ram 500GB nvme). Boot time is between 4-5sec. I have tried stripping down Win installs just to see if I could get fast booting with no gui, even with cheating with hiberboot, takes forever to get a Windoze to boot to multi-user prompt.

[Siwastaja]

But far more important: why do you say I'm an MS fanboy?

Come on, your aggressiveness is just bubbling vigorously under the surface, and some is escaping under the lid of that pressure cooker in every other message or so

If you can't see it yourself, fine. Everyone else can see it. You are exactly similar to those "linux fanboys" you so much enjoy to ridicule. They certainly exist, somewhere, too, but clearly not in this thread - the asymmetry here is just hilarious - like, you rambling on your own. Then again, I ignore Randy222 so maybe I miss something. I don't ignore you because you are a perfectly sensible person despite this funny angry spot directed at your mental image of "linux fanboys", which, clearly for you, means everyone who dares to criticize Microsoft. You don't say that directly, but it leaks out. It is just obvious. It's kinda funny, even. Then again, when you get yourself together, I have nothing against your arguments. You are factually correct in this thread most of the time.

I mean, getting triggered from an actually funny and accurate joke about the infantilization of MS error messages - come on! Most of us can enjoy making fun of stuff we like!

[tatel]

What I don't get - truly - is why you Linux fanboys get so worked up about Windows when most of you don't even use it. It makes me think you are insecure in your position. You guys are fucking weird. It's an OS, for fuck's sake. Grow up.

Not so difficult I think... we use it when it is the easiest way, i.e, when there are no linux modules for some hardware, and we don't like the windows experience, particularly from the last releases.

What I truly don't get is why we are wasting our time, in a thread where some windows diehards are making fools of themselves. There are people here that already migrated, there are people here that, like OP, just decided to migrate, and there are a few very thick, armored skulls unable to see anything bad, at all. So they simply can't understand why the rest of us don't like that "lovely" windows OS (let's not even mention how many times their "arguments" have been debunked, or how they get into calling names while pretending to be objective, that's what is really hypocritical, so, despicable)

To me, it's amazing this thread continues alive. Only sensible thing to do here would be trolling windows diehards, but I have better things to do with my time. They can eat all the shit they want, and then some, and continue doing so in the future, I'm fine with that.

As said in spain, "Sarna con gusto no pica" (A willing scabies doesn't itch)

[PlainName]

I do recommend anyone with Windoze to run a manual Restore Point (thats a "create a restore point" from any Win search area, and give it a date name. Always do this before Win updates get installed.

I turn off restore points (saves space if nothing else). A restore point only winds back some parts of your machine and I've previously had a restore point not even manage to do that. So I don't bother.

Instead I rely on my backups. An image backup is fast and exact, but for this kind of job it would be a differential backup. Typically it will take moments and then, when you have a problem you are much better positioned to fix it.

Why is this better? Well, for one, with a restore point if you fix it and fail you are stuffed. The image backup means you can just whip the drive out and restore on another, and it will be the exact same filesystem with the exact same bits in the exact same locations as when you did the backup (not the case with a file-by-file backup). Screw it up and you still have the original disks which is not borked, so you can put that back in and do a proper fix. Or clone it and try again. Or do another restore. Many more options to not end up in tears.

[PlainName]

Only sensible thing to do here would be trolling windows diehards, but I have better things to do with my time.

And yet you couldn't stop yourself doing exactly that. 

[Randy222]

But far more important: why do you say I'm an MS fanboy?

Come on, your aggressiveness is just bubbling vigorously under the surface, and some is escaping under the lid of that pressure cooker in every other message or so

If you can't see it yourself, fine. Everyone else can see it. You are exactly similar to those "linux fanboys" you so much enjoy to ridicule. They certainly exist, somewhere, too, but clearly not in this thread - the asymmetry here is just hilarious - like, you rambling on your own. Then again, I ignore Randy222 so maybe I miss something. I don't ignore you because you are a perfectly sensible person despite this funny angry spot directed at your mental image of "linux fanboys", which, clearly for you, means everyone who dares to criticize Microsoft. You don't say that directly, but it leaks out. It is just obvious. It's kinda funny, even. Then again, when you get yourself together, I have nothing against your arguments. You are factually correct in this thread most of the time.

I mean, getting triggered from an actually funny and accurate joke about the infantilization of MS error messages - come on! Most of us can enjoy making fun of stuff we like!

ahhh, "Ignore", the whiners feature that many board sites have.

[tatel]

Only sensible thing to do here would be trolling windows diehards, but I have better things to do with my time.

And yet you couldn't stop yourself doing exactly that. 

You can think what you want, but i'm much better at trolling that anything i posted on this thread...

[SteveThackery]

I mean, getting triggered from an actually funny and accurate joke about the infantilization of MS error messages - come on! Most of us can enjoy making fun of stuff we like!

"Triggered"?    That's funny. Here is what I wrote: "What possible use is there in discussing a fictitious error message?" Do you seriously consider that triggered? It was expressing puzzlement at the weird turn of the conversation. That isn't triggered.

I enjoyed this next bit, although sadly it is all ad hominem, which is surely beneath you. You have misunderstood something important - see my explanation after this.

 
Come on, your aggressiveness is just bubbling vigorously under the surface, and some is escaping under the lid of that pressure cooker in every other message or so

If you can't see it yourself, fine. Everyone else can see it. You are exactly similar to those "linux fanboys" you so much enjoy to ridicule. They certainly exist, somewhere, too, but clearly not in this thread - the asymmetry here is just hilarious - like, you rambling on your own. Then again, I ignore Randy222 so maybe I miss something. I don't ignore you because you are a perfectly sensible person despite this funny angry spot directed at your mental image of "linux fanboys", which, clearly for you, means everyone who dares to criticize Microsoft. You don't say that directly, but it leaks out. It is just obvious. It's kinda funny, even. Then again, when you get yourself together, I have nothing against your arguments. You are factually correct in this thread most of the time.

OK, listen:

1/ I believe completely in the value of rational thinking, freedom from prejudice, logic and reason, and all of my arguments have been about that, not about Linux.

2/ Throughout this thread I have not criticised ANYONE for preferring Linux over Windows, or the other way round. I challenge you to find anything to the contrary.

3/ I have DEFINITELY criticised the astonishing amount of irrational hatred for Windows and Microsoft; the prejudice (judging without finding the facts), and the complete lack of reasoned discussion.

That is what triggers me: not Linux, not Windows, not Microsoft - what triggers me is people behaving with religious fervour about a fucking operating system. But worse: people ranting about things that aren't even true (or haven't been true for 15 years or more).

I thought engineers were supposed to be reasonable, logical, rational people. But there is something weird about you Linux fanboys: all those qualities disappear when it comes to Windows. Instead of criticising it in a factual way, like I do, you rant in a hateful way about shit that isn't even true!  That is what is so fucking weird - you make shit up and then hate it!

It doesn't seem possible to have a discussion about the relative advantages and disadvantages of the two operating systems, because Linux fanboys treat Linux like a religion. That is what triggers me: supporting any OS with religious fervour, and hating any OS with religious fervour.

It is totally over the top behaviour, and I don't understand it. For saying that you're supposed to be an engineer, I wouldn't come to you for rational, reasonable, logical advice on any subject.

In summary: I am not a supporter of Windows or of Linux. I am a supporter of rationality, logic, facts, freedom from prejudice, and reason.

It is very disappointing that you are not.

[SteveThackery]

"Windoze"!! That is so smart! Your schoolmates must hero worship you.

"Windoze" "MyCrudSoft" are well know labels since about 1980.

I know. I was using what we call irony. That's another thing you might want to look up.

[SteveThackery]

What I truly don't get is why we are wasting our time, in a thread where some windows diehards are making fools of themselves.

WRONG!! There are no Windows diehards in this thread.

Go on: prove me wrong. Find me just one Windows diehard. Not someone who merely uses Windows; an actual diehard.

In fact I'll even let you define what a diehard is, so it should be easy. Come back with one or more names of Windows diehards. Let's see you put your money where your mouth is.

[SteveThackery]

[...] there are a few very thick, armored skulls unable to see anything bad, at all. So they simply can't understand why the rest of us don't like that "lovely" windows OS (let's not even mention how many times their "arguments" have been debunked, or how they get into calling names while pretending to be objective, that's what is really hypocritical, so, despicable)

As in the above message: find me anyone who:

1/ Cannot see anything bad about Windows.

2/ Thinks of Windows as a "lovely" OS.

Off you go: put your money where your mouth is.

EDIT: Meanwhile, while you are searching for non-existent quotes, let me reveal the one thing I have criticised: not the Linux operating system, the app ecosystem. And I will stand by that - in my opinion most Linux apps are old-fashioned, ugly, with obscure UIs and steep learning curves.  I made it clear that this is a subjective opinion.

[Bicurico]

I use Windows, I like the experience,I develop software with Visual Studio.
Also, I work with high-end CAD/CAM/CAE systems: these are available for Windows mainly due to graphics drivers and user experience.

I use Linux as well and I generally dislike it. There are so many distributions, packet managers, etc. You want to use some software, chances are you need to compile it yourself. But then you discover you need some dependencies, which need other dependencies. And then there are chances that a particular d pendency is not available for your Linux distribution. Oh, you have Ubuntu? Should have installed Fedora...

Honestly, Linux sucks for those that need to use professional/commercial software.

I understand it is a great nerd OS, where you can install what ever GNU licensed open source or hack your new tool using all the available resources. But as soon as you need support,get stuck or wonder why it doesn't work, you are on your own.

Android is ok for mobile devices until you want to run apps in multitasking or need to handle files. It is a mystery why there is not a regular file structure for your files. Downloaded a PDF? Good luck finding it after a few weeks.

MacOS has a nice user interface and runs on a BSD/Unix system. Nothing wrong here. But if you complain about Microsoft spying on the user, then Apple is not better.

So, I would conclude that all OS have pros and cons. The main factor in choosing the OS should be what you need to accomplish, what apps you need to run.

Choosing an OS for the sake of the OS is like choosing some shoes without considering if you are going to a ball, to work, jogging or sitting at home watching TV.

[Zero999]

I don't use Windows at home. I have to use it at work, but the badness is somewhat mitigated by the fact the IT department have to fix it, when it goes wrong.

I also find the patronising error messages annoying. Any crash or unwanted reboot will annoy anyone, but it's not difficult to design an error screen which provides technical information, as well as conveying the message to a non-technical user.

Windows has encountered a problem and needs to halt in order to minimise data loss.

Technical information:
Segmentation Fault at memory address 23AF9F1B0E5D5691

[Monkeh]

Honestly, Linux sucks for those that need to use professional/commercial software.

That is entirely in the hands of the developers of said software.

[SteveThackery]

Honestly, Linux sucks for those that need to use professional/commercial software.

That is entirely in the hands of the developers of said sofware.

EXACTLY! That's the very thing I've been complaining about throughout this thread: in my opinion Mint (in my case) is a fine OS, but the apps are anything but. In my opinion that's because there is a strong culture in the Linux desktop world that apps must be free. There is little or no business case for the big players to develop, or port, their apps to Linux. If Linux wants to compete on the desktop, it must attract the big software houses by embracing paid-for software.

[Monkeh]

Honestly, Linux sucks for those that need to use professional/commercial software.

That is entirely in the hands of the developers of said sofware.

EXACTLY! That's the very thing I've been complaining about throughout this thread: in my opinion Mint (in my case) is a fine OS, but the apps are anything but. In my opinion that's because there is a strong culture in the Linux desktop world that apps must be free. There is little or no business case for the big players to develop, or port, their apps to Linux. If Linux wants to compete on the desktop, it must attract the big software houses by embracing paid-for software.

Can't embrace what isn't being offered. And when they do offer it, and they've done such a terrible job you're better off going back to software written by people who wanted to write it, you'll blame the users..

There's been a pretty consistent pattern to proprietary desktop offerings: Vendor 'ports' to Linux, puts on the market. Users try it, find it doesn't work properly, has weird and unnecessary distro compatibility issues due to a poor understanding of the platform, performs badly, has compatibility issues with other versions or doesn't support any of their existing files in openly documented formats, and users stop wasting their time with it. Vendor sees poor uptake because it's a worse option than what's already available, stops offering it.

Some time later, people blame the users for making rational choices, frame it as irrational religion.

[SteveThackery]

Can't embrace what isn't being offered. And when they do offer it, and they've done such a terrible job you're better off going back to software written by people who wanted to write it, you'll blame the users..

You embrace the principle. I assumed you were smart enough to glean that.

Not sure what you mean about the other point: the only paid-for Linux desktop software I have found that is relevant to me is SoftMaker Office, and I will happily explain why I prefer it over any of the open source offerings.

So that's one example of what I mean. Are you saying that there have been other paid-for offerings where "they've done such a terrible job you're better off going back to software written by people who wanted to write it"? Can you give examples?

Here is why I think your argument is faulty. First: are you seriously suggesting that the people who develop Adobe software don't want to do it? That's ridiculous. Or do you think wanting to develop software for free somehow makes that software better? This is your assertion, so evidence, please!

Second: how do you know what drove these software users back to free software? Was it really "terrible", or was it because it wasn't free and the users had confirmation bias?

Third: but in any case, paid-for software failing is just an example of the free market in action. In the Windows world, software developers have competitors, so the best rise to the top. I would expect this to happen in the Linux desktop ecosystem just the same.

I agree: I do partially blame the users for the dire (in my opinion) state of Linux desktop software. If said users expect all software to be free, then they'll forever be stuck with software developed and maintained by hobbyist in their spare time.

[SteveThackery]

There's been a pretty consistent pattern to proprietary desktop offerings: Vendor 'ports' to Linux, puts on the market. Users try it, find it doesn't work properly, has weird and unnecessary distro compatibility issues due to a poor understanding of the platform, performs badly, has compatibility issues with other versions or doesn't support any of their existing files in openly documented formats, and users stop wasting their time with it. Vendor sees poor uptake because it's a worse option than what's already available, stops offering it.

Examples, please! Remember, we are talking about Linux desktop software here, not the stuff that IT Support uses.

[Cyclotron]

I suppose I must be a diehard. I am not surprised this thread lives on. Holy wars don't end quickly.

Isn't there about two groups here?  Linux Desktop users (the enlightened true believer) in one group, and those who use pretty much anything, including Linux, in the other?

The thread's subject is "Windows 11 is dying," but we've refuted that with the latest data showing it's growing.  I didn't go back to see where someone took the thread to "Linux is better than Windows," but I'm guessing it was a Linux fan. I think I've seen it posted in this thread or others that you can't have a conversation about Windows online without a Linux advocate steering the conversation that way.

Even if someone were to say "But but, where are the users going if Windows 11 is dying?", the article points out the number one competition to Windows 11 is Windows, like 5 times before you get to macOS, and then way, way, way down the line Linux, in some places.

Windows 11 has 6 versions, and that's just the Desktop market. The vast majority of users sit in the "Windows 11 Home" license. For most folks, the computer is an appliance at best. Another boob-tube from yesteryear. It is best that their systems be patched for them and not allowed to get out of it because they won't do it, and it will make the whole internet more shitty. Windows 11 Home wasn't designed for everyone. That's why they have 5 other versions plus the server stuff.

I don't condone corporate greed and the incessant desire to spy on and collect data of users. But user, all of us are making that deal. If you use the internet, pay with a credit card, use a coupon, or carry a membership card, you are being tracked. It's not possible to avoid it altogether.  The mega machine that is working to track you is many, talented, and resilient, and it's all legal. When presented with a pile of cash just waiting to be collected, companies collect it. So moving from Windows to anything else to avoid your data being collected is flatulence in a cyclone. If you want change, advocate for law changes.

Now, if stating those facts above makes me a "Diehard"; Well, Yippee Ki Yay!