Author Topic: Windows 8  (Read 40797 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline amspire

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3787
  • Country: au
Re: Windows 8
« Reply #100 on: April 12, 2013, 01:32:38 am »
yup agree about the upgrading issue, but another issue is "form factor"... monitor, pc, full sized keyboard and a mouse (and printer(s)). though i've been keen to a Levono or iMac alike setup form factor before (monitor and PC in one housing) but havent figured out how to carry the keyboard and mouse along in one bag for portability reason, no market providing me that setup yet afaik.
When I got my dell laptop, I got a slightly oversized bag, and I always carry around a Bluetooth Dell (Logitech) keyboard and mouse. The bag has to be at least 44cm (17") wide. I have hardly used the laptop keyboard - perhaps I might need to use it once a month. The Dell Bluetooth keyboard and mouse actually works - unlike many other brands.

To me, using a proper keyboard with a laptop is the way to go, and I would use a tablet the same way.
 

Offline c4757p

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7805
  • Country: us
  • adieu
Re: Windows 8
« Reply #101 on: April 12, 2013, 01:38:39 am »
To me, using a proper keyboard with a laptop is the way to go, and I would use a tablet the same way.

The keyboard is literally my most important criterion when I choose a laptop. If I can even imagine a very grumpy-mood version of myself having the slightest complaint, whine or worry about the keyboard, I do not buy the laptop.
No longer active here - try the IRC channel if you just can't be without me :)
 

Offline TerraHertz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3707
  • Country: au
  • Why shouldn't we question everything?
    • It's not really a Blog
Re: Windows 8
« Reply #102 on: April 12, 2013, 01:55:30 am »
I liked the Windows 8 reference at the end of this Cracked article:
  http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-common-misconceptions-that-destroy-computers/

IMO: Windows XP was the last Microsoft OS that could be remotely trusted to do what YOU want, and nothing else. And then only after extensive slash and burn of MS default bullshit.

There's a cool tool called nlite.   http://www.nliteos.com/nlite.html
The cut-down WinXP I install on 'new' machines here (ie newly acquired old machines) was produced by nlite.

I'm simply not interested in tagging along on Microsoft's Great Adventure in seeing how far they can screw people around before the majority revolt.

One reason MS constantly changes stuff at every level in Windows, is to maintain their huge cash inflow stream from all the Microsoft Certified Professionals that have to refresh their certification every year or two.
Another reason, is to obfuscate all the DRM crap that MS more and more deeply infests into Windows.
But lastly, and most importantly in Microsoft's business plan, is to morph the dominant computing platform into a totally closed architecture, in which MS (and government) can enforce pay-per-view media rentals (for the vast profits they think they can achieve), and also totally monitor everything everyone does with their computer. Which implies btw, that in their future vision you won't have ANY choice of which operating system to run on the hardware available for purchase.

It's laughable reading people complaining about UEFI 'secure boot', but then settling down and forgetting about it because "oh, I found it's still possible to get around this, so no problem."
Ha ha ha... so naive!

My advice: don't throw out your old computers. Upgrade if you want, but keep the old machines in a cupboard or whatever. Or you might feel pretty dumb one day, when Adobe gets the order to broadcast a command to Acrobat to reflash HD firmware with junk, then 'upgrade' CPU microcode and BIOS flash with more junk. And then also reflashes the net backbone routers with garbage. A few hours to achieve no more net and most PCs permanently bricked. (Just one feasible scenario for achieving the same end result.)
You know that 'Internet Off switch' joke? It's not a joke.
Collecting old scopes, logic analyzers, and unfinished projects. http://everist.org
 

Offline RJSC

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 125
  • Country: pt
Re: Windows 8
« Reply #103 on: April 12, 2013, 02:04:48 am »
Seeing the way Microsoft is going with Office (renting instead of selling) made me even happier to have switched to LibreOffice.
OpenOffice/LibreOffice is fine if your requirements are low (i.e. the occasional letter, simple spreadsheets), but it's still so far behind even a ten year old MS Office 2003 that it's not even funny.

I've been using it to do my academic reports including math formulas, graphics, etc...
I've started using LibreOffice still in Windows 7...

But if I ever need Microsoft Office again, it runs on Wine:
 

Offline TerraHertz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3707
  • Country: au
  • Why shouldn't we question everything?
    • It's not really a Blog
Re: Windows 8
« Reply #104 on: April 12, 2013, 02:11:06 am »
The keyboard is literally my most important criterion when I choose a laptop. If I can even imagine a very grumpy-mood version of myself having the slightest complaint, whine or worry about the keyboard, I do not buy the laptop.

Agreed. My biggest laptop purchase mistake was getting one with the neat-looking perfectly flat, flush square keytops. Result: you can't feel the registration of your fingertips with the keys. So either you watch and visually align every keypress, or you mistype all the time.
How did this stupid idea get past product testing? What, no product testing, just churn them out? Well shit...

Incidentally, does anyone know of a solidly built full scale USB keyboard with the standard key layout EXCEPT no numeric keypad? I've been looking for one forever. Never use the numeric pad and always wish the keyboard was shorter.
Every keyboard I find that has the numeric keypad removed, also has everything else scrunched up or moved around. Apparently the designers seem to think 'small' excuses making the entire thing awkward to use.

I'd have simply hacksawed the end off a standard keyboard, except guess where the control IC always is.
Collecting old scopes, logic analyzers, and unfinished projects. http://everist.org
 

Offline 4to20Milliamps

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 248
  • Country: us
Re: Windows 8
« Reply #105 on: April 12, 2013, 02:45:21 am »
I have 8 different computers, my oldest son has 4, my nine year old daughter has 2, everyone in my family owns a laptop, the computer I'm typing on right now cost me 40 bucks at a  habitat for humanity store.

 I have every version of windows full installs on original disks in a box.< just in case the grabberment comes and tries to take my computer and so I can re-build civilization after the apocalypse

I have a linux computer that I used for recording audio, another I use for cnc stuff.

I have a mac that sits in the closet.

Is anyone else here actually using windows 8 and can you give an unbiased opinion of it?

just wondering  ;D
 

Offline c4757p

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7805
  • Country: us
  • adieu
Re: Windows 8
« Reply #106 on: April 12, 2013, 02:46:21 am »
I have a mac that sits in the closet.

There's a politically incorrect joke in here somewhere...
No longer active here - try the IRC channel if you just can't be without me :)
 

Offline 4to20Milliamps

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 248
  • Country: us
Re: Windows 8
« Reply #107 on: April 12, 2013, 02:49:34 am »
YEp, i'm one of the stupid ones that bought into the whole "macs are supercomputers" thing, g4's look cool but they are definitely not supercomputers.
 

Offline Lightages

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 4298
  • Country: ca
  • Canadian po
Re: Windows 8
« Reply #108 on: April 12, 2013, 02:51:40 am »
I have not read the whole thread, sorry. I do have to say something though. I have been using computers since 1980. I have built computers, modified them, programmed in various languages, run a small company supporting small businesses for computers and networking, and I use computers everyday in many capacities. I have run many different OSes including Linux, BSD, OS/2, and all flavors of Microsoft PC OSes since DOS 2.x .

Never in my life have I been more confused and bewildered at the weird paradigm shift of a GUI in all that time. To me it is as if Jobs if actually still alive and working inside Microsoft and trying to sabotage their company by forcing this new interface down customer's throats.

DOS, liked it.
Window 3.11, it was OK
Windows 95, the original GUI for OS/2 wasn't so great as a shell for DOS
Windows 98se, pretty good for what it was
2000, one of the best Microsoft put out, what 95 should have been
Windows ME,  :-DD
Windows XP,  |O and then it actually got worth using after major overhauling
Vista, Windows ME 2, what mess  :o
Windows 7, finally a system that runs well like 2000 and with a good interface. Vista in sheep's clothing.....
Windows 8, who ate all my LSD?   :scared: Windows ME 2²

If I was forced to run a GUI in Windows 8 that it has by default and I could not change it, I would be off to Apple or Linux. Nothing is worth that idiocy.
 

Offline Rufus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2094
Re: Windows 8
« Reply #109 on: April 12, 2013, 02:58:31 am »
one feature of the "crappy new piece of crap metro garbage disgusting interface" is the search function, just start typing and whatever you're looking for comes up, if you can get past the "ugly disgustingly huge moronic icons" that also pop up:

You mean the feature Win7 already has? Funny how so many didn't discovered this till they needed to work around the awful Win8 start screen.
 

Offline PeteInTexas

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 344
  • Country: us
Re: Windows 8
« Reply #110 on: April 12, 2013, 03:26:29 am »
If you are "set in your ways", Windows 8 is not for you.  There is nothing wrong with that.   :P

Microsoft really need to stop hanging on to "Windows" every time they introduce something remotely different from what people think of "Windows".  It was great run, but it long past time to move on to something else.
 

Offline grenert

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 446
Re: Windows 8
« Reply #111 on: April 12, 2013, 04:50:31 am »
My hobby used to be PCs and upgrading them for fun. But as you said, it got unexciting because the machines are so capable it fell out of interest for me. I have an Athlon 6 core main PC I built probably 3 years ago and there is simply no reason to upgrade it.

So I moved on to model railroading ...  :-//
I used to do the same thing.  Once I stopped playing videogames, there was not much reason to ever upgrade anymore.  I ran an overclocked Athlon Thunderbird untiil about 3-4 years ago!  Finally I upgraded so that I could run XP and some software/hardware that didn't work under 2000, and that is what I continue to use today.  It doesn't take much horsepower to surf the web, use Office and Photoshop, play music.

Trains are a lot more interesting  :)
 

Online Mechatrommer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9715
  • Country: my
  • reassessing directives...
Re: Windows 8
« Reply #112 on: April 12, 2013, 05:17:47 am »
When I got my dell laptop, I got a slightly oversized bag, and I always carry around a Bluetooth Dell (Logitech) keyboard and mouse. The bag has to be at least 44cm (17") wide. I have hardly used the laptop keyboard - perhaps I might need to use it once a month. The Dell Bluetooth keyboard and mouse actually works - unlike many other brands.
To me, using a proper keyboard with a laptop is the way to go, and I would use a tablet the same way.
my requirement is/was at least 23" monitor. basically a gigantic laptop with full sized keyboard. i dont need battery or keyboard attached to the monitor though, basically just a portable PC type that i can attach to power outlet anywhere. i still have this paradigm that any laptop/netbook no matter how big it is (13"?) is still less optimum for real work. using laptop with built in keyboard with external fullsize keyboard is kind of ackward, but thats just me, as i said i havent found such setup off-the-market. the closest is Lenovo et al, but lacking of carrying bag.
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline Wuerstchenhund

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2995
  • Country: gb
Re: Windows 8
« Reply #113 on: April 12, 2013, 05:56:40 am »
Probably the same reason why the first thing they do on a new Windows XP installation is to restore the bland Windows 95 menu and color scheme.

I do that because it works better. I install classic shell on Win7 because it works better.

Does it really? Or is it just another expression of your resistance to change? Because from an ergonomical point of view it's inferior to any modern UI.

Quote
You whine on about people not being prepared to learn a new user interface

I'm certainly not whining (remember, it's not me complaining that MS' new OS doesn't cater for people stuck in the 1990's). But having worked in corporate IT for quite q while I have seen enough people with that 'my way or the highway' attitude towards computing, so that's nothing new.

Quote
while the whole point of the start screen shit in Win8 (and why it can't be removed and the start menu is gone) is to force a new user interface on its captive desktop market so those people don't have to learn a new interface to use Microsoft's phones and fondleslabs.

No, the reason of this 'start screen shit' is to bring the UI into the 21st century and adapt to the way people are starting to use computers. Being stuck in the past you may have not realized it but the standard Windows desktop is crap when using on touchscreens (I know, I have used it). The new Metro GUI works with both touch devices and mouse/keyboard. It's certainly not perfect but it's a first step into the right direction.

Quote
Microsoft same old same old, fuck what customers want we will use whatever leverage we have to make them buy what we have to sell.

Yeah, sure. Windows is still the #1 desktop OS and actually increasing it's already huge share in the server market because MS gives a shit on what customers want.

Quote
Face it you took (the interface formally known as) Metro up the arse and are telling us you like how it feels.

As I said, I'm using Windows 8 for quite a while, and having to go back to Windows 7 or even XP (shudder!) just shows me how much better Windows 8 is. I'm not a fan of Metro, really not, but I don't let the fact that my Start menu is now full screen and that I have to move the mouse into the lower left corner instead of clicking on a button get in the way of benefitting from the many advances that are in Windows 8.

Again, it's perfectly fine to stay with your old OS. But it looks silly when someone complains that a new OS version doesn't cater for the people that are stuck in their old ways because they are too unflexible to change. That's not a group MS caters for. Actually, that is a group very few companies cater for.
 

Offline amyk

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6813
Re: Windows 8
« Reply #114 on: April 12, 2013, 11:37:07 am »
Because from an ergonomical point of view it's inferior to any modern UI.
Exactly what is that supposed to mean?
Quote
No, the reason of this 'start screen shit' is to bring the UI into the 21st century and adapt to the way people are starting to use computers. Being stuck in the past you may have not realized it but the standard Windows desktop is crap when using on touchscreens (I know, I have used it). The new Metro GUI works with both touch devices and mouse/keyboard. It's certainly not perfect but it's a first step into the right direction.
The way most people "use" computers is not necessarily the most efficient, nor do they really use much of the features of an OS, but that doesn't mean everything should be dumbed down for only them. Metro was designed for touchscreens, so it's definitely going to be good for them, but it's a step backwards for mouse/keyboard navigation. If you're implying that we should all switch to touchscreens, then that's even worse --- I move my mouse a tiny amount and I can get the cursor anywhere on 27" of monitor. I don't want to move my arm that much on a touchscreen, and I don't need to with a mouse. Touchscreens are horrible for serious work. If this is "21st century" then I'd rather stay in the past, because this is yet another example that newer is not always better.
Quote
As I said, I'm using Windows 8 for quite a while, and having to go back to Windows 7 or even XP (shudder!) just shows me how much better Windows 8 is. I'm not a fan of Metro, really not, but I don't let the fact that my Start menu is now full screen and that I have to move the mouse into the lower left corner instead of clicking on a button get in the way of benefitting from the many advances that are in Windows 8.
What are these "many advances"? Have they increased the productivity of your workflow?
Quote
Again, it's perfectly fine to stay with your old OS. But it looks silly when someone complains that a new OS version doesn't cater for the people that are stuck in their old ways because they are too unflexible to change.
It looks sillier when someone thinks needless breaking changes are good. We are "too unflexible to change" because these changes impact productivity. Maybe if you're an employee who wants to get paid more for doing less so these changes slowing you down can help...

Quote
My advice: don't throw out your old computers. Upgrade if you want, but keep the old machines in a cupboard or whatever.
Agreed (not just from the e-waste perspective). I have systems where I have datasheets for everything on the motherboard and there is no DRM weirdness. Real serial and parallel ports too. The days when hardware does exactly what you want, and nothing more... have passed by. :(
 

Online Mechatrommer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9715
  • Country: my
  • reassessing directives...
Re: Windows 8
« Reply #115 on: April 12, 2013, 11:49:08 am »
No, the reason of this 'start screen shit' is to bring the UI into the 21st century and adapt to the way people are starting to use computers. Being stuck in the past you may have not realized it but the standard Windows desktop is crap when using on touchscreens (I know, I have used it). The new Metro GUI works with both touch devices and mouse/keyboard. It's certainly not perfect but it's a first step into the right direction.
1) can you "navigate" metro menu faster with touch? compared to classic menu + mouse + keyboard? esp for large amount of items.
2) why take out the "classic XP start menu"? and still leave the Run console available? Run console is more archaic than "classic start menu" whats the argument there?

we have no objection with metro menu, if M$ decided to let us set our PC setting to classic windows, we will just do it and entirely ignore the metro menu, happy ending! But the decision made to take out the menu entirely and enforced us to enter tablet mode is what made people call it "shit" happened. imho.
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline 4to20Milliamps

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 248
  • Country: us
Re: Windows 8
« Reply #116 on: April 12, 2013, 12:25:10 pm »
The desktop is still there and works exactly like every other version of windows, there are several third party applications that can "restore" the start button and menu structure, you can boot directly to the desktop and never even use the start "screen"


Trust me if this operating system was crap......I would know it..... so far it has run all of my software, boots in seconds, has no stability issues, I tried something new and left updates ON and I have never seen it update and it is up to date, the antivirus software is working fine and doesn't slow down the computer, the advanced features like mounting an ISO, partitioning drives, burning disks, etc<work.

this is not windows ME this actually works and is functional, and I've suffered through a lot using windows.... it's about time.
 

Offline baljemmett

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 666
  • Country: gb
Re: Windows 8
« Reply #117 on: April 12, 2013, 01:34:29 pm »
Since when was a Start button used for stopping the computer a good design idea anyway?

Since the usability tests MS did on the Win95 shell showed that's where people looked for the shutdown option ;)
 

Offline GK

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2607
  • Country: au
Re: Windows 8
« Reply #118 on: April 12, 2013, 01:51:00 pm »
It looks sillier when someone thinks needless breaking changes are good. We are "too unflexible to change" because these changes impact productivity. Maybe if you're an employee who wants to get paid more for doing less so these changes slowing you down can help...


The wheel is embarrassingly old. It's about time we stop resisting change and move onto something different.

 
Bzzzzt. No longer care, over this forum shit.........ZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 

Online Mechatrommer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9715
  • Country: my
  • reassessing directives...
Re: Windows 8
« Reply #119 on: April 12, 2013, 03:01:35 pm »
Since when was a Start button used for stopping the computer a good design idea anyway?
Since the usability tests MS did on the Win95 shell showed that's where people looked for the shutdown option ;)
want the good design for stopping computer? that round (or square depending on the model) button at the front of your PC casing/panel. once upon a time you hit that, computer shut down in 0 sec, now it will take a while, i've set that button as hibernation for my PC, quite handy ;) to completely OFF the PC in W8 is not intuitive either :shrug infact more steps of nonsense (logout user, slide-tap-up panoramic-click symbol-shut down), and even the modern devices are back to that "hard" button usually found at the side of the device, but sadly its not 0 sec shutdown anymore (for some devices) and certainly not a "HARD OFF" :P
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline JoeyP

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 319
  • Country: us
Re: Windows 8
« Reply #120 on: April 12, 2013, 07:32:57 pm »
... there are several third party applications that can "restore" the start button and menu structure, you can boot directly to the desktop and never even use the start "screen"

Exactly. It takes a third party app to "restore" the missing features that people want. So Microsoft can keep DOS compatibility features, but it's too much to ask to be able to use a menu system to start a program? I have hundreds of apps on my PC, and having to access them through a huge inefficient grid of giant tiles on the screen is absolutely asinine. Microsoft has totally screwed the pooch with Windows 8. Like Vista, it's one to skip, and wait for them to get it right with Windows 9. PC != Phone.
 

Online Mechatrommer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9715
  • Country: my
  • reassessing directives...
Re: Windows 8
« Reply #121 on: April 12, 2013, 08:17:05 pm »
huge inefficient grid of giant tiles on the screen
just in case you havent noticed, FWIW... go to bottom right, there is minus sign. click that, the giant tiles will go tiny, but i'm not sure though how it works for hundreds of tiles since i'm not thinking to install all the softwares in it (just enough for the wifey to be happy) and tapping anywhere once will bring back to giant tiles. the bad thing is the minus sign is at the very edge of the screen even my small finger cannot reach, only by mouse. M$ should be smart enough to not to do that in the first place if "touch" is in their right mind.
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline JoeyP

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 319
  • Country: us
Re: Windows 8
« Reply #122 on: April 12, 2013, 09:29:36 pm »
huge inefficient grid of giant tiles on the screen
just in case you havent noticed, FWIW... go to bottom right, there is minus sign. click that, the giant tiles will go tiny, but i'm not sure though how it works for hundreds of tiles since i'm not thinking to install all the softwares in it (just enough for the wifey to be happy) and tapping anywhere once will bring back to giant tiles. the bad thing is the minus sign is at the very edge of the screen even my small finger cannot reach, only by mouse. M$ should be smart enough to not to do that in the first place if "touch" is in their right mind.

That really doesn't change anything for me. Having to search through a huge array of hundreds of shortcuts/tiles to start an app is absurdly inefficient compared to a menu system where you can organize by subject and access any program within just a few levels.

I have no problem with them adding a new paradigm for those who want to pretend their PC is a phone. But to remove functionality and not replace it with something at least equally functional/efficient is the sort of thing that makes people hate Microsoft. I personally am not (yet) a Microsoft hater. I use Windows exclusively. I just think they've gone down a lot of wrong roads since Steve Ballmer  replaced Bill Gates, and Windows 8 is an excellent example of that.
 

Offline IvoS

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 284
  • Country: us
Re: Windows 8
« Reply #123 on: April 12, 2013, 11:45:10 pm »
I just got new ASUS notebook with win8 and I have to say, I don't like it much. I have to do more clicks for tasks I was used to in win7. Therefore I took my old SSD from Acer notebook and put it to my new Asus. Sure enough, I had win7 activation problem. Called Microsoft and dude name David issued a new reg #, all done in 3 minutes. I have to give Microsoft big thumb up  :-+ for not asking stupid questions and for getting quickly down to business. Thank god for those people with common sense who work there realizing quickly that since I spent money for win8 license already with my new PC, issuing a new reg code for the previous win7 copy is not a problem.  :) :-+
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf