Author Topic: Windows 8  (Read 40944 times)

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Offline c4757p

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Re: Windows 8
« Reply #75 on: April 11, 2013, 06:08:33 pm »
I also don't understand what the fuss is about re. the Start Menu button, because quite frankly for everyone who is not mentally challenged it should really not matter much if you click on a button on the lower left corner or just move the mouse in the lower left corner (or use the Windows key).

Like I said before, I don't care if it works just fine. I don't use the operating system for the sake of playing with its buttons, I use it as little as possible and expect it to dive the hell out of my way so I can launch a program. No matter how easy a new interface may be to learn, I refuse to learn one every time Microsoft shits one out.

It would work perfectly well to swap the gas and brake pedals in my car, but I'm not buying a car that's had that done to it.
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Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Windows 8
« Reply #76 on: April 11, 2013, 06:08:55 pm »
Seeing the way Microsoft is going with Office (renting instead of selling) made me even happier to have switched to LibreOffice.

OpenOffice/LibreOffice is fine if your requirements are low (i.e. the occasional letter, simple spreadsheets), but it's still so far behind even a ten year old MS Office 2003 that it's not even funny.

Which makes the fact that MS is pushing towards Office 365 even more painful.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 06:10:59 pm by Wuerstchenhund »
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Windows 8
« Reply #77 on: April 11, 2013, 06:18:10 pm »
Only reason I have Office ( the whole dang thing, complete with powerpoint and some other stuff I never use) is Outlook, though I must admit for 4 months I just used the web view on Linux, as I was waiting for the replacement computer, and was a little busy in the interim. Using the full functionality of office is not common, most are going to use Word, Excel and even then nowhere to full capacity. Libreoffice does all you commonly do in a good enough fashion to work with, though you do have some bugs opening documents in one and then editing in another.
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: Windows 8
« Reply #78 on: April 11, 2013, 06:21:09 pm »
Only reason I have Office ( the whole dang thing, complete with powerpoint and some other stuff I never use) is Outlook

This is the one missing part of LibreOffice IMHO. They really need a PIM, and they really, really need to not half-ass it.
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Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Windows 8
« Reply #79 on: April 11, 2013, 06:24:46 pm »
I refuse to learn one every time Microsoft shits one out.

The thing is that the last time Microsoft has 'shat one out' was 18 years ago.  No offense, but I would expect a person of normal intellect to be able to handle a UI change every 18 years.  It took me two days to get used to 'Metro', it's not rocket science.

The other thing is that learning new stuff is part of our lives. A new car, new TV, moving to a new town. That new scope that comes with a different user interface than the previous model. Constant learning is also part of most jobs, and many employers are actually paying so that their employees learn something new.

The thing I don't understand is that, with all the constant change and need to learn new things around us, how some people can seriously expect that with computers, the epitomes of the fastest changing sectors of technology in the world, that all the knowledge they once learnt must be applicable unchanged forever. It's just ignorant and plain stupid.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 06:33:19 pm by Wuerstchenhund »
 

Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Windows 8
« Reply #80 on: April 11, 2013, 06:31:08 pm »
Why everyone hangs onto the start button like it's their old security blanket is beyond me.

Probably the same reason why the first thing they do on a new Windows XP installation is to restore the bland Windows 95 menu and color scheme.
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: Windows 8
« Reply #81 on: April 11, 2013, 06:33:11 pm »
The thing is that the last time Microsoft has 'shat one out' was 18 years ago.
They rearrange for the sake of rearranging every major release. Hint: I don't just mean the application launcher.

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It took me two days to get used to 'Metro', it's not rocket science.

Including all the little things that you haven't done since last year? I like that I know where all those things are and can find them on a whim, knowing they haven't moved, if I need them again. Microsoft rolls the "where should I put the setting" die every damn time they release a new version.

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The thing I don't understand is that, with all the constant change and need to learn new things around us, how some people can seriously expect that with computers, the epitomes of the fastest changing sectors of technology, they can learn something and expect this knowledge to remain valid forever. It's just ignorant and plain stupid.

Because the user interface doesn't have to change. I don't know about you, but my computer does the same things it's done for years. It does them faster, and it's better at doing more of them at once, but other than that, not much has changed.
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Offline SeanB

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Re: Windows 8
« Reply #82 on: April 11, 2013, 06:48:53 pm »
Just spent this week getting Office to work, without getting the red line of moan on top. Even though we have a site license. Then the annoying windows update and the stuck updates every bloody day, and the endless rebooting. Thank goodness for Teamviewer and the long suffering Helldesk. The 2 people there I deal with most have endless patience, even though a lot of the bigger files are coming in via sneakernet, bandwidth is expensive and limited.
 

Offline dr.diesel

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Re: Windows 8
« Reply #83 on: April 11, 2013, 06:53:30 pm »
Because the user interface doesn't have to change. I don't know about you, but my computer does the same things it's done for years. It does them faster, and it's better at doing more of them at once, but other than that, not much has changed.

Speak it brother, I don't know why this concept is so hard to understand.  You can only make the desktop so ergonomic, why Martha Stewart it to death?

Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Windows 8
« Reply #84 on: April 11, 2013, 06:55:51 pm »
They rearrange for the sake of rearranging every major release. Hint: I don't just mean the application launcher.

No, they don't. Many may think differently but MS doesn't just employ idiots (albeit I guess they have their fair share of them, too). Many changes are because of user feedback, and they do quite a bit of research in Human Factors and UI design.

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It took me two days to get used to 'Metro', it's not rocket science.

Including all the little things that you haven't done since last year? I like that I know where all those things are and can find them on a whim, knowing they haven't moved, if I need them again.

The thing is that finding rarely used functions is getting easier with every Windows version, and with Windows 8 you don't even have to remember where that rarely used setting was. It's much more convenient than trying to remember where that one function I needed last time a year ago was.

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Because the user interface doesn't have to change.

With that thinking we would still be stuck with paper tape and line printers  |O

UIs change because the way people use computer changes, and also because computers get more powerful which not only allows much more advanced user interfaces, and also new applications that again may require UI changes.

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I don't know about you, but my computer does the same things it's done for years. It does them faster, and it's better at doing more of them at once, but other than that, not much has changed.

My computers do also mostly the same things they have done for years, but the thing is that these things have become much more advanced because of better computers (more performance, more RAM) which enable much more advanced applications. I'm spending a lot of time in front of a computer, and honestly Windows 8 makes it more comfortable than previous versions.

Don't get me wrong, if you refuse change for whatever reason then fine, and if you want to stay with your current GUI then of course that's your own business. But you should not expect that your preference is equally valid for other users, and you should not expect MS to cater for users that are against any change and at the end of the day only want to keep what they already have.
 

Offline Wuerstchenhund

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Re: Windows 8
« Reply #85 on: April 11, 2013, 06:58:45 pm »
Speak it brother, I don't know why this concept is so hard to understand.  You can only make the desktop so ergonomic

You might want to read a bit about Human Factors and UI design, just to understand why this statement is nonsense.
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: Windows 8
« Reply #86 on: April 11, 2013, 07:03:36 pm »
No, they don't. Many may think differently but MS doesn't just employ idiots (albeit I guess they have their fair share of them, too). Many changes are because of user feedback, and they do quite a bit of research in Human Factors and UI design.

Their guesses being educated guesses doesn't change my opinion of them.

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The thing is that finding rarely used functions is getting easier with every Windows version, and with Windows 8 you don't even have to remember where that rarely used setting was. It's much more convenient than trying to remember where that one function I needed last time a year ago was.

Yes, all the various search features are quite nice. Why they can't add that without scattering all the settings is beyond me. My local library has a good enough search system that they could just randomly number the books and sort by number, but they don't do that because they're not retarded.

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Because the user interface doesn't have to change.

With that thinking we would still be stuck with paper tape and line printers  |O

No, because those things aren't user interfaces, which is what I'm specifically talking about.

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UIs change because the way people use computer changes,

Or is it the other way around?

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and also because computers get more powerful which not only allows much more advanced user interfaces

IOW, change for the sake of change.

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and also new applications that again may require UI changes.

Like?

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Don't get me wrong, if you refuse change for whatever reason then fine, and if you want to stay with your current GUI then of course that's your own business. But you should not expect that your preference is equally valid for other users, and you should not expect MS to cater for users that are against any change and at the end of the day only want to keep what they already have.

Surely somebody at Microsoft understands what an option is? Let me reconfigure the system to keep it the way it was. I'd love to keep using old versions if they wouldn't stop supporting them, but they do.
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Offline dr.diesel

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Re: Windows 8
« Reply #87 on: April 11, 2013, 07:15:53 pm »
Speak it brother, I don't know why this concept is so hard to understand.  You can only make the desktop so ergonomic

You might want to read a bit about Human Factors and UI design, just to understand why this statement is nonsense.

As a developer I understand it quite well, and completely understand that is it not nonsense.   

The industry appears to agree...

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Windows 8
« Reply #88 on: April 11, 2013, 07:28:13 pm »
but I would expect a person of normal intellect to be able to handle a UI change every 18 years.
yup agree. i barely touched Vista long time ago, few hours experience with Win7 (upstair with my kids) and only testing for software compatibility, and now W8 from last night. i believe i went to every nooks and crannies of it, as other put it, its not a rocket science ;) i believe start menu is gone, but "Run" and "command.com" aka DOS are still there, how irony in this modern world  :-DD

The What-once-was-called-Metro interface can easily be treated like a full screen start menu, no need for a touch screen
yup agree, we got that alright ;) as i've expected, you didnt get my point and probably will never be. the keypoint is, efficiency, not epic'fancy. and before you say it, i admitted i'm just an obsolete mourner. ;) analogy that i can think of is like the newer DDS signal generator will never be able to produce super smooth sine steps just as analog oscillator did.

we do welcome advancement or addition in features, but what once was a good thing is removed and lost forever. maybe one day when no one talking about it anymore, someone with brilliant brain will come up with the idea again and it will be damned and then applaused just like today except the other way round. wanna prove? if you happen to follow things from DOS era... everythings once were all flat 2D with flat colors, and then came W3.11 better colors still flat somehow 3D, and then Win95-XP everythings 3D borders everybody was happy. when everybody got bored with 3D... now look what we have here? except with better pixels pitch and colors depth, its just a merry go round for the sake of circling the economy. cant be blamed really.

as for the UI, i believe the current trend is not about human factor, but more toward the crave of little gadgetries that you can bring everywhere and "online everytime".and the need for people to rub on something when they are in their sorry ass :P (no thats just kidding)  M$ got sucked up by Ipad and Samsung et al idea. and now they try to bring developers environment into a community who just want to use their free time in the bus or airplane watching fartbook, play games and videos. Clash of the Titans will occurs resulting Identity crisis :P
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline BiOzZ

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Re: Windows 8
« Reply #89 on: April 11, 2013, 07:41:19 pm »
i adopted it a few months ago ... took LOTS of getting used to but once you do its much MUCH more simple to use
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Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Windows 8
« Reply #90 on: April 11, 2013, 07:51:01 pm »
yep anyway beside the mourning, i think i'm going to install that in the netbook for the wifey becoz that old netbook has the touch screen and swiveling monitor, i just need to find a way to wire the WIndows button out to the front when the keyboard is covered with the monitor. must be a good show off to friends and relatives. hey look! i got a 9" Win8Phone!
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline Rufus

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Re: Windows 8
« Reply #91 on: April 11, 2013, 08:55:38 pm »
Why everyone hangs onto the start button like it's their old security blanket is beyond me.

Probably the same reason why the first thing they do on a new Windows XP installation is to restore the bland Windows 95 menu and color scheme.

I do that because it works better. I install classic shell on Win7 because it works better. I make use of new task bar features in Win7 because they work better. I won't use any of the start screen shit in Win8 because it works like shit and working like shit on the desktop is hardly surprising since it is blindly obvious it was designed for small screens with touch.

You whine on about people not being prepared to learn a new user interface while the whole point of the start screen shit in Win8 (and why it can't be removed and the start menu is gone) is to force a new user interface on its captive desktop market so those people don't have to learn a new interface to use Microsoft's phones and fondleslabs.

Microsoft same old same old, fuck what customers want we will use whatever leverage we have to make them buy what we have to sell.

Face it you took (the interface formally known as) Metro up the arse and are telling us you like how it feels.
 

Offline 4to20Milliamps

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Re: Windows 8
« Reply #92 on: April 12, 2013, 12:11:49 am »
 :-DD

Well it was only 39 bucks, that's not too bad up the old ying.

I was told at a job interview a few years back that because I didn't have windows 7 I would have a hard time learning their new software  ;D

what are you guys going to do when there is no more steering wheel, gas or brake pedals?

http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/102109-goodbye-steering-wheel-here-comes.html
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: Windows 8
« Reply #93 on: April 12, 2013, 12:26:47 am »
Quote
The car features a pair of joysticks that duplicate one another's movements so it doesn't matter which one is pushed, pulled or turned to control the car.

Hmm... two linked joysticks? Hope it's easier to fly drive than this:




(Yeah, I know, it's not a "copilot" configuration. Still the first thing I thought of...)
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Offline amspire

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Re: Windows 8
« Reply #94 on: April 12, 2013, 12:27:39 am »
Basically, everything people are saying about WIndows 8 is similar to what they said about Windows XP in 2001.

Companies didn't want to touch it. It looked like a toy. Everyone absolutely hated the activation - Windows 2000 didn't need activation unless you were one of the privileged countries like Australia where Microsoft was testing activation in Windows 2000. A year after introduction, Windows XP had sold just 17 million copies.

What are the Windows 8 sales after 6 months? My guess is 100 million? Not sure.

Windows XP was rubbish until Service Pack 1 and it only really became a great operating system after Service Pack 3. This is in spite of the fact that the changes from Windows 2000 to XP were far less radical ten the changes from Windows 7 to Windows 8. As an indication of the extent of Microsoft's changes to XP, the original XP ran fine in 256MBytes. By Sp3, you needed 1GByte of RAM. XP Sp3 was basically a different operating system to the original XP.

At the moment, I haven't seen any great hardware for Windows 8, and like Windows XP, it will probably take another year at least for Microsoft to make the changes it needs to get it working correctly, but just like XP, we will all be using it, or Windows 9, in a few years.

Windows 8 is taking the blame for PC sales slide, but the truth is that who needs to upgrade? My current main computer is a Dell XPS laptop 2.53GHz Intel Core Duo. It is fast enough. I have used it for programs like Maya (the leading 3D animation package) and it is fine. Why on earth would I need to upgrade? Basically, as long as a 5 year old PC is working well, it is more then adequate for speed and memory capacity for probably 99% of users.

The Windows 8 PC I am waiting for is a tablet with at least a 15 inch screen, nVidia or Radeon graphics chip, dual touch screen/Wacom pen, at minimum 1600 pixels wide resolution but much higher would be better. I don't care if it weighs 3 kilograms. I don't care if the battery life is only two hours. I want real functionality for content creation - not a content consuming PC which is all the reviewers think we need.

The last decent tablet PC for power and screen resolution go back to machines like the Toshiba M4 convertible  10 years ago, and since then all tablet PCs, including all the current Windows 8 tablets,  have been garbage. They are small-screen toys for bored people. And they wonder why they haven't been popular.

When the right hardware becomes available, there will be a reason for people to buy Windows 8.

Have Microsoft got it right? I would prefer different choices, but I am equally opposed to many of Apple's decisions as well. My no1 belief is that Activation for operating systems and programs is a disaster and my biggest wish is that somehow it can disappear. If I buy a license, I want to be able to run the software in 10 years when the company who sold software is long gone. If I create content using a software package today, I want to be able to return to the content in 10 years.

Who cares about the Start button? Since when was a Start button used for stopping the computer a good design idea anyway?

Richard
« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 12:49:12 am by amspire »
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Windows 8
« Reply #95 on: April 12, 2013, 12:47:33 am »
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My no1 belief is that Activation for operating systems and programs is a disaster and my biggest wish is that somehow it can disappear
the same thing happened from XP-7-8, the complaints etc, is the same issue with this activation mechanism i believe. tomorrow is "online everytime", online activation, getting Apps from virtual place rented instead of bought etc. computing will not just get tied to OS and softwares only anymore, but PC/hardware is going to get tied to internet in the same way (no net no computing). whether we like it or not, we will be forced to whatever direction or paradigm the market gives us. the happy chaps will be our future generation who never taste the old way.
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Who cares about the Start button? Since when was a Start button used for stopping the computer a good design idea anyway?
its main purpose is not only for stopping computer. and some people used their both hand to navigate the desktop/start menu. leaning far forward just to slide and tap a giant button on a 23" monitor is an odd paradigm for some.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 12:53:33 am by Mechatrommer »
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Offline xrunner

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Re: Windows 8
« Reply #96 on: April 12, 2013, 12:51:47 am »
Windows 8 is taking the blame for PC sales slide, but the truth is that who needs to upgrade? My current main computer is a Dell XPS laptop 2.53GHz Intel Core Duo. It is fast enough. I have used it for programs like Maya (the leading 3D animation package) and it is fine. Why on earth would I need to upgrade?

My hobby used to be PCs and upgrading them for fun. But as you said, it got unexciting because the machines are so capable it fell out of interest for me. I have an Athlon 6 core main PC I built probably 3 years ago and there is simply no reason to upgrade it.

So I moved on to model railroading ...  :-//
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Offline c4757p

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Re: Windows 8
« Reply #97 on: April 12, 2013, 12:53:57 am »
tomorrow is "online everytime", online activation, getting Apps from virtual place rented instead of bought etc. computing will not just get tied to OS and softwares only anymore, but PC/hardware is going to get tied to internet in the same way (no net no computing).

It's a bean counter's wet dream. No more piracy when we're all SAAS bondage slaves. Gimp suits App Stores for everyone!
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Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Windows 8
« Reply #98 on: April 12, 2013, 01:02:14 am »
yup agree about the upgrading issue, but another issue is "form factor"... monitor, pc, full sized keyboard and a mouse (and printer(s)). though i've been keen to a Levono or iMac alike setup form factor before (monitor and PC in one housing) but havent figured out how to carry the keyboard and mouse along in one bag for portability reason, no market providing me that setup yet afaik.
It's extremely difficult to start life.. one features of nature.. physical laws are mathematical theory of great beauty... You may wonder Why? our knowledge shows that nature is so constructed. We simply have to accept it. One could describe the situation by saying that... (Paul Dirac)
 

Offline 4to20Milliamps

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Re: Windows 8
« Reply #99 on: April 12, 2013, 01:18:25 am »
I hate to say it but my trusty dual core windows xp laptop is on it's last leg, and I will be buying a new one.

I really don't have a choice, and I doubt I can find parts to repair it.....and with the features the new laptops have why would I want to?


one feature of the "crappy new piece of crap metro garbage disgusting interface" is the search function, just start typing and whatever you're looking for comes up, if you can get past the "ugly disgustingly huge moronic icons" that also pop up:

 


 


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