Author Topic: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?  (Read 14055 times)

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n45048

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2015, 10:42:16 pm »
OSX is OK, but I find it less 'configurable' than Windows. It also has a few annoying "features" which make me want to throw the damn thing out the window. For example, if I'm playing a DVD and then eject the disc in Windows, it just stops playing and spits out the disc... great! But in OSX, oh no, you click the eject button in finder and it does nothing, except that drive now disappears totally from finder but still keeps playing and retains the disc. In order to eject, you need to close down whatever software is using the drive, then click eject, not once, but twice (that's after you disconnect the USB DVD drive and reconnect it so the damn drive is recognised again).

What the?!

I like to be able to enable/disable whatever crap I want and I find I can do that with Windows. Except for one thing: The stupid "security scan" that Internet Explorer does after it finishes downloading a file. There is no way to turn that off.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2015, 10:46:13 pm by Halon »
 

Offline rob77

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2015, 10:51:29 pm »
Guys, either accept it as it is and stop crying ... or stop using it ;)
i'm sick and tired of guys bitching at microsoft and windows while using their products (in many cases STOLEN products)...

my primary OS for software and hardware development is Linux , but on the other hand i have 2 computers with windows (win7 and win8) and i'm paying also for office365 to microsoft. - i don't say their products are the best... but they do the job for me in some areas.

so use whatever fit your needs or whatever you like, and stop bitching ! ;)

peace for everyone !
The problem is, MS force people to use it.

Still want to use Windows XP? Fine but then you have to put up with new software not running on it, lack of security updates or AV software. Whether you like it or not, you'll end up being forced to use Windows 8 at some point.

actually the the vendors of the software you're using are forcing you to use windows 8... most of the software is windows only - therefore you're forced to use the latest windows...  if the software you need would be available for all 3 major platforms, then you would have the choice ;)

and the UI changes ? say a big thank you to today's corporate stupidity..... all companies are driven by finance guys not experts in the area of the company's business... and the finance guy sees only "profit" and "how to increase profit" one of the ways to increase profit is innovation.... so they're innovating no matter what ;) but this is happening EVERYWHERE nowadays... it's not microsoft specific.
 

Offline MacAttak

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2015, 11:09:11 pm »
Welcome to being old and set in your ways.  :)


Software vendors always migrate their UI to more closely resemble the operating system UI that is "current" at the time. Given a choice, most users will pick software that looks like it was designed to run in their environment. And at this point, there's a lot of Windows 8 out there in the world. It would be a mistake to not modernize your UI if you are producing a new version of your software. Unless you have a captive user base with no meaningful competition.

It's just like cars. There's a lot of people who really like those old Fiero's... lot's of nostalgia around those cars, and many people still drive them today as though a finer vehicle has never been made. But you don't exactly see new car models designed to look like a Fiero do you?
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #28 on: January 25, 2015, 11:37:01 pm »
Welcome to being old and set in your ways.  :)

I think the constant change-for-the-sake-of-change is bullshit and I'm only 22! :-DD

It's a tool, not a bloody fashion accessory! We don't get new, shiny hammers every three years...
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Offline MacAttak

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2015, 04:53:01 am »
If the only thing they changed was the internal guts to make things better, then nobody would buy it.

Also, sometimes when you add new (good) features, you *must* change the UI to accommodate it. I'm not saying Windows 8 was full of great features that required the massive changes it brought (I HATED windows 8 until 8.1 made it tolerable)... but that was all a direct result of Steve Sinofsky's hubris. "You'll get used to it" was the answer from him whenever win8 was criticised, and if anyone under him disagreed they found themselves without a job very quickly.

Those days are behind Microsoft (thankfully), but the market does dictate that if you want people to buy into your newest operating system release, you need to make it look different.
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2015, 04:56:50 am »
Oh, sure, I understand why they do it. I just wish they didn't have to. ;)
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Offline AlfBaz

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2015, 05:30:55 am »
It's a tool, not a bloody fashion accessory! We don't get new, shiny hammers every three years...
No, but you should. Some of these designs are just to die for  :-*
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=hammers&biw=1680&bih=881&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=adDFVNLAE4PYmgXL3oLAAg&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2015, 06:05:10 am »
It's a tool, not a bloody fashion accessory! We don't get new, shiny hammers every three years...
No, but you should. Some of these designs are just to die for  :-*
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=hammers&biw=1680&bih=881&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=adDFVNLAE4PYmgXL3oLAAg&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ

Found the Windows hammer!  >:D

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Online tggzzz

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2015, 10:14:16 am »
Found the Windows hammer!  >:D


Spot on!

Although to be fair, having a significantly different interface on mouseless tablets is a reasonable and sensible decision. But forcing that onto desktops is (and always was) extremely inappropriate and dimwitted.
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Online GreyWoolfe

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2015, 02:05:23 pm »
MacAttak, I'm not sure that 8.1 made the OS tolerable.  A touch centric OS is a touch centric OS and it is just not going to play well or make sense in a desktop environment.|O  I like the idea of classicshell, but the laptops belong to SWMBO and stepdaughter and they are happy with the way the laptops are.  SWMBO even likes Metro :-//  I'm not sure that I will even be able to get them to go to Win 10 but I will try.
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Offline Galenbo

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #35 on: January 26, 2015, 03:26:02 pm »
Anybody else hate this useless pile of crap that Windows 8 GUI is and all the blind lemmings falling them off the cliff following it?

I "not yet" hate it.

I use Win7 at the moment, and can't see the advantages over XP.
The only reason I moved from XP to Win7 is that new versions of some programs are payed by Microsoft to abort install on XP.

One day I will also be a blind lemming, for the same reason.

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Online rdl

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2015, 03:35:06 pm »
That's interesting. I've never run across any programs with an installer that was paid to abort by Microsoft.

I've seen many older installers that would refuse to run on Windows 7 claiming it wouldn't work or was the wrong OS version or some other stupidity. I was always able to get them to work eventually by either running the install in compatibility mode or just installing the software on a XP computer and copying the entire program folder onto the Windows 7 machine.

(Ah, I just now realized you're going the other way, Win 7 software on XP)


The only reason I moved from XP to Win7 is that new versions of some programs are payed by Microsoft to abort install on XP.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2015, 03:37:38 pm by rdl »
 

Offline Marco

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2015, 04:29:15 pm »
Although to be fair, having a significantly different interface on mouseless tablets is a reasonable and sensible decision. But forcing that onto desktops is (and always was) extremely inappropriate and dimwitted.

That's not even the worst of it in my opinion, at least we could mostly work around that by sticking to desktop/apps.

The problem is that everything is made a package deal, trying to force everyone over ... the old win32 desktop is simply left to rot with an antiquated security model and no windows store to give people with no clue about the internet some vetted access to applications. Only Metro gets a modern capability based security model and store and windows's reputation goes further down the drain as a result (and to make it a little worse there is no decent way to sideload metro apps, they are walling off the garden worse than OSX).

Microsoft needs to learn to firewall it's core business from the business interests of it's other divisions. The xbox and mobile division are destroying them from within.
 

Offline nfmax

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #38 on: January 26, 2015, 05:16:46 pm »
I agree with you 100% There was nothing good about the Windows 8 interface. It was the 2nd worst thing Microsoft ever came up with (ribbon bar is number one).
Third worst. Remember Clippy...
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #39 on: January 26, 2015, 05:31:35 pm »
It was the blind belief that end users sitting in the office were going to put up with Metro with its one screen, one app mentality that beggars belief. It's not uncommon for me to have, say, 30 windows open at any one time. Very common to be cross-referencing, whether it be for doing the daily orders and shipping, or designing a board from a schematic.

Desktop Windows is not good in a finger-touch environment, the Ui elements are generally too small for accurate prodding. But to force the end user into The Interface Formerly Known As Metro was unforgivable. I hate to admit it, but the first time I used Windows 8 soon after it was released, it took me about a day to figure out how to switch it off without using the Big Red Switch. I could see this cretinous Charms bar thing appearing but didn't know what I did to make it happen. Then it dawned on me, Ctrl-Alt-Del. At least they didn't get rid of that.

Shortly after, realising I was in need of some more self-flagellation, I bought a Surface RT on its release day. I sat in the hotel room, with all the dev tools, and realised that, FFS, you cannot even write "Hello, World" for the POS, they had deliberately crippled the OS from running third party console and Win32 apps. Your only option is TIFKAM on ARM. Windows on ARM is now all but dead as a result.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2015, 05:33:59 pm by Howardlong »
 

Online rdl

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #40 on: January 26, 2015, 05:52:44 pm »
Third worst. Remember Clippy...

Ha ha, yes I had forgotten about Clippy. I think he belongs in 3rd place though, because you could at least turn him off :)
 

Offline AlfBaz

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #41 on: January 26, 2015, 07:58:45 pm »
Third worst. Remember Clippy...
Hasn't it been renamed to cortana, given a voice and given the keys to the whole OS now?
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #42 on: January 26, 2015, 09:59:13 pm »
 :rant: I started this thread to talk about the GUI changes and their appearance. Microsoft is not the only company/group to make a mess. I just get tired of new things being done just to be new and different. If there is no benefit then it is just fashion and  waste of programming time, or design time.

HP was a master of user interface design with their RPN calculators, that is until the 48SX and GX. They threw out their years of research and design on the easiest colors to use for calculators. With the 48GS/GX they made some ridiculous decision to make the colors fashionable and made the calculator harder to use.

I think everyone can agree that the W8 GUI was a disaster, for the desktop at least.

I finally updated CCleaner, and WTF? More fruity fashion design without reason and it reduces the ease of use. It is change for change, for fashion.  :--

This is what I am complaining about. Just as someone else said here, that Mozilla decided to move tabs above everything else so they aren't tabs anymore. More fruity BS.

Good UI design ignores fashion and looks for what makes interacting with the software more efficient and easier to understand. Only after that should the UI designer consider "prettier" designs as long as it does not reduce usability.

If appealing to fashion was what we needed, then the Rigol DP832 power supply that someone did with a Hello Kitty theme would be a good thing.

The problem is that no one wants to look old and obsolete to the 10 second attention span Internet zombies. "Make it fresh and new"is the mantra instead of "Make it work correctly and logically". 

 

Online Vgkid

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #43 on: January 26, 2015, 10:04:26 pm »
I must be the only one who has never cared for xp.
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Online nctnico

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #44 on: January 26, 2015, 10:08:07 pm »
I reluctantly moved from Win2k to XP because Win2k started to fall behind too much. Some things in XP are easier but a lot of other stuff is broken compared to Win2k.
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Offline Lightages

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #45 on: January 26, 2015, 10:09:29 pm »
I hated the GUI of XP. It was just silly colors stuck on top of WIN2K IMHO. More form over function. It became an OK OS at the end, but the GUI was too silly looking for me so I turned off all the appearance junk.
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #46 on: January 27, 2015, 07:00:24 pm »
I hated the GUI of XP. It was just silly colors stuck on top of WIN2K IMHO. More form over function. It became an OK OS at the end, but the GUI was too silly looking for me so I turned off all the appearance junk.

Not just IMHO, that was exactly what XP was. Windows 2000 was, under the hood, Windows 5.0, and XP was Windows 5.1, so basically 2000 with some lipstick. To this day I rate Windows 2000 it as the best OS to come out of Redmond to date. It was clean and functional, and it supported plug and play peripherals ready for the laptop generation. Also there was no marketing BS around it. It was clear what the different desktop and server products were.

Then along came buzzwords like XP and .NET that simply confused the market, indeed many Microsoft employees didn't really know what .NET was when the marketing guys started talking about "Windows .NET Server", which thankfully became just Windows Server 2003 once released. But there was a year or two of utmost confusion about what .NET was at the time.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2015, 12:32:33 am by Howardlong »
 

Offline Artlav

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #47 on: January 27, 2015, 09:16:27 pm »
I don't think Windows 8 is all that bad. Just takes a little longer to cook it.
You don't use any Windows raw.

The "folders" model of working with files is fundamentally useless in any sort of production environment, so a file manager is the fist thing to install.
The start menu/metro screen is rarely ever seen, since the work programs are started from the file manager, and the documents are opened by clicking on them, thanks to type association.
A quick launch panel is easy to obtain, by many means.
The control panel is easy to navigate thanks to a search bar (i used to know where things were on XP, never learned on 7+, but thanks to a search bar it's not a big problem).
"Windows Store"? Never heard more than rumours of it.

So in the end, all Windows look the same when cooked.
Don't hate - hack and adapt.
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Offline Stonent

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #48 on: January 28, 2015, 03:25:27 pm »
I don't think Windows 8 is all that bad. Just takes a little longer to cook it.
You don't use any Windows raw.

The "folders" model of working with files is fundamentally useless in any sort of production environment, so a file manager is the fist thing to install.
The start menu/metro screen is rarely ever seen, since the work programs are started from the file manager, and the documents are opened by clicking on them, thanks to type association.
A quick launch panel is easy to obtain, by many means.
The control panel is easy to navigate thanks to a search bar (i used to know where things were on XP, never learned on 7+, but thanks to a search bar it's not a big problem).
"Windows Store"? Never heard more than rumours of it.

So in the end, all Windows look the same when cooked.
Don't hate - hack and adapt.

With the change Vista made in moving things around, I just started learning the commands to get where I needed to be and they work on all versions of windows from 2000 to 8.1

First you hit [Window Key] + R  to pull up the run menu and type one of these commands:

--Windows Utilities--

Cmd                     Command Prompt
Appwiz.cpl           Add/Remove Programs
Devmgmt.msc     Device Manager
Compmgmt.msc  Computer Management (manage my computer)
Sysdm.cpl            Advanced settings (rename computer, join a domain, adjust performance)
Services.msc       Start/Stop services menu
Ncpa.cpl              Network settings
Control                Main control panel
Powercfg.cpl       Power management settings

-- Programs --

Excel                (Duh)
Winword          Microsoft Word
Msaccess         Microsoft access
Powerpnt         Microsoft Powerpoint
Outlook           (Duh)
Mspub            Microsoft Publisher
Pbrush           Windows Paint (useful for quickly pasting a screenshot and adding an annotation)
Snippingtool  Windows snipping tool (screen grabbing and cropping)
Powershell_ISE  Launch the powershell integrated scripting environment

So if you just remember those, you don't have to really deal with the UI much on any windows version
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Offline Howardlong

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #49 on: January 28, 2015, 09:38:38 pm »
I don't think Windows 8 is all that bad. Just takes a little longer to cook it.
You don't use any Windows raw.

The "folders" model of working with files is fundamentally useless in any sort of production environment, so a file manager is the fist thing to install.
The start menu/metro screen is rarely ever seen, since the work programs are started from the file manager, and the documents are opened by clicking on them, thanks to type association.
A quick launch panel is easy to obtain, by many means.
The control panel is easy to navigate thanks to a search bar (i used to know where things were on XP, never learned on 7+, but thanks to a search bar it's not a big problem).
"Windows Store"? Never heard more than rumours of it.

So in the end, all Windows look the same when cooked.
Don't hate - hack and adapt.

With the change Vista made in moving things around, I just started learning the commands to get where I needed to be and they work on all versions of windows from 2000 to 8.1

First you hit [Window Key] + R  to pull up the run menu and type one of these commands:

--Windows Utilities--

Cmd                     Command Prompt
Appwiz.cpl           Add/Remove Programs
Devmgmt.msc     Device Manager
Compmgmt.msc  Computer Management (manage my computer)
Sysdm.cpl            Advanced settings (rename computer, join a domain, adjust performance)
Services.msc       Start/Stop services menu
Ncpa.cpl              Network settings
Control                Main control panel
Powercfg.cpl       Power management settings

-- Programs --

Excel                (Duh)
Winword          Microsoft Word
Msaccess         Microsoft access
Powerpnt         Microsoft Powerpoint
Outlook           (Duh)
Mspub            Microsoft Publisher
Pbrush           Windows Paint (useful for quickly pasting a screenshot and adding an annotation)
Snippingtool  Windows snipping tool (screen grabbing and cropping)
Powershell_ISE  Launch the powershell integrated scripting environment

So if you just remember those, you don't have to really deal with the UI much on any windows version

Apparently, in the Microsoft world, this is "progress"!
 


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