Author Topic: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?  (Read 14067 times)

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Offline Lightages

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Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« on: January 25, 2015, 09:15:21 am »
 :rant: Anybody else getting tired of the style changes many programs have made to their GUIs to match the bland, horrible, confusing "style"of Windows 8?

I am getting really tired of the change to this horrible excuse for a user interface. :rant:

Anybody else hate this useless pile of crap that Windows 8 GUI is and all the blind lemmings falling them off the cliff following it?

« Last Edit: January 25, 2015, 05:26:27 pm by Lightages »
 

Offline AndyC_772

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2015, 09:42:13 am »
I hate it too. MS made a huge mistake with Windows 8, and to be fair, I think they know it. Windows 10 looks like it might be usable again.

Offline Mechanical Menace

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2015, 10:55:23 am »
:rant:Anybody else getting tired of the style changes many programs have made to their GUIs to match the bland, horrible, confusing "style"of Windows 8?

The only app I use that's tried to use it is the Windows itself.
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Offline justanothercanuck

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2015, 11:25:45 am »
I've been complaining about this since Vista.  Don't like Aero, don't like the new start menu and control panel, just give me W2K or XP back...  |O

edit: I have the same gripes about Android... their removal of the menu and search buttons, replacing them with the left swipe menu / top right dropdown menu, and that hideous green colour...  :palm:
« Last Edit: January 25, 2015, 11:27:42 am by justanothercanuck »
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Online xrunner

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2015, 01:13:57 pm »
I hate it too. MS made a huge mistake with Windows 8, and to be fair, I think they know it. Windows 10 looks like it might be usable again.

Looks like Windoze 10 will be a free upgrade for the first year of it's release, for users of 7 and 8 -

http://www.computerworld.com/article/2825116/free-at-last-after-windows-10-consumers-wont-pay-for-updates-or-upgrades.html
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Online andersm

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2015, 01:43:22 pm »
People always lose their shit when things change, then they get used to it and lose their shit when the next iteration comes along. Nothing new under the sun.

Offline nuno

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2015, 01:54:56 pm »
I always try to see things as "value". Does a change brings me any added value, or just adaptation effort?
 

Offline dannyf

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2015, 01:57:13 pm »
Quote
I am getting really tired of the change to this horrible excuse for a user interface.

The solution is simple: don't use Windows 8.
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Online nctnico

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2015, 02:06:14 pm »
People always lose their shit when things change, then they get used to it and lose their shit when the next iteration comes along. Nothing new under the sun.
That depends on whether the change is an improvement or not. In case of Microsoft it usually is not an improvement. The way (file) explorer works in Windows 7 just sucks. Folders keep shifting up&down and some stay invisible (like XP does in a lesser extend). Microsoft is trying to make their software 'smart' but all they do is make it more confusing to use. I've had it and I'm moving to Linux and keep Windows XP in a VM.
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Offline rollatorwieltje

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2015, 02:25:45 pm »
Can't you change the theme anymore in Windows 8? My Windows 7 still looks like Windows 95 with "rainy day" theme. I don't care for those "fancy" themes, they look like they were designed by a 12 year old. Of course it required some extra tool, classicshell. It fixes all kinds of shit MS broke in the user interface.

For those who use Firefox, there's Classic theme restorer to make it usable again. Apparently the Firefox designers were caught by the same highly contagious ui-herpes, this allows you to fix it.

At work I have to use Office... Not only is it still infuriating to use after more than 20 years of development, it has it's own theme with some font I can barely read. I would really like to hear from the idiot that came up with this why he(/she?) thought this was a good idea. Also sticking shit like undo and redo in the damn title bar...
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2015, 02:26:14 pm »
People always lose their shit when things change, then they get used to it and lose their shit when the next iteration comes along. Nothing new under the sun.

Yeah, because it's annoying to have to relearn the system every time Marketing decides they want New and Shiny. Changes that make improvements are good. Changes because the way they've been doing it since the 90s is Old and Dull are just a pain in the ass.
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Offline AndyC_772

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2015, 02:37:50 pm »
The problem here, of course, is that Marketing was never trying to improve the desktop, they were trying to improve sales of their unwanted, also-ran phone OS by making them more similar.

Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2015, 04:21:43 pm »
People always lose their shit when things change, then they get used to it and lose their shit when the next iteration comes along. Nothing new under the sun.
That depends on whether the change is an improvement or not. In case of Microsoft it usually is not an improvement. The way (file) explorer works in Windows 7 just sucks. Folders keep shifting up&down and some stay invisible (like XP does in a lesser extend). Microsoft is trying to make their software 'smart' but all they do is make it more confusing to use. I've had it and I'm moving to Linux and keep Windows XP in a VM.
What I would like to see is KDE for Windows, completely replacing the poorly engineered M$ junk (i.e. no always on top button and no tabs in file explorer) with something that looks and feels just like KDE on Linux, but still able to run Windows apps. Problem is, most KDE developers don't use Windows.
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Offline rob77

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2015, 04:48:42 pm »
Guys, either accept it as it is and stop crying ... or stop using it ;)
i'm sick and tired of guys bitching at microsoft and windows while using their products (in many cases STOLEN products)...

my primary OS for software and hardware development is Linux , but on the other hand i have 2 computers with windows (win7 and win8) and i'm paying also for office365 to microsoft. - i don't say their products are the best... but they do the job for me in some areas.

so use whatever fit your needs or whatever you like, and stop bitching ! ;)

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Offline Lightages

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2015, 05:15:11 pm »
I am not complaining about Windows 8, I am complaining about the style changes many software is adopting just to make it look like the style of Windows 8. Most of the time it is a step backwards in usability.

As far as being a Luddite, HAH! I welcome new advances in technology. I really would not have to go back computer tech of 1998. Change for change's sake, and bad design never is welcome.
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2015, 05:27:32 pm »
and all the blind lemmings falling them off the cliff following it?

That's a myth, started by a Disney film. Lemmings don't follow one another off cliffs.
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2004/04/27/1081903.htm

Yes I know, just using a common metaphor.
 

Offline rdl

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2015, 06:22:11 pm »
I agree with you 100% There was nothing good about the Windows 8 interface. It was the 2nd worst thing Microsoft ever came up with (ribbon bar is number one). I will be staying with Windows 7 until I can get a real good look at 10.

I switched from Firefox to Pale Moon purely because of the stupid new interface the Firefox devs came up with. I might have been able to deal with it eventually except they decided to force "tabs on top", where they have no right to be.

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Offline Howardlong

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2015, 07:01:27 pm »
What made me laugh was the way Steven Sinofsky tried to tell everyone that their own user feedback drove the Windows 8 UI design, saying that no-one used the start menu anyway. Doh!

If you look at the MS have worked, there hasn't been any improvement to the UI since about Windows 2000. Everything else has been irritating, whether it be the hiding away of Windows Explorer in XP or the disappearance of the command prompt icon.

However MS needs to make a profit so they put more and more lipstick on to try to differentiate visually without improving the user experience or productivity. If you look at the keystrokes required to do things in Windows 7/Office 2010 compared to XP/Office 2007, there are usually more. How that is a productivity improvement I don't know.

The latest for the past couple of years has been to use CAPITALS in menus. I have no idea WTF that is about.

Yes, the ribbon on Office is irritating to say the least, removing the keyboard menu shortcuts visually that we all used. But MS have a history of this kind of thing. Clippy as an example. DOS4 is another.
 

Offline Stonent

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2015, 07:23:30 pm »
I install classic shell on windows 8.1 and find it perfectly fine. I never see metro at all. I do slightly prefer the GUI of windows server 2012r2. The top right window controls are outlined in black and I think look better and more finished.  Though Microsoft kept metro on server 2012 for reasons I don't understand.  I would like it if they offered a way to make the title bar a little more slim.

The free windows 10 upgrade is a smart move. Microsoft is still having to write separate security patches and updates for vista so in essence doubling the work.

From a programming standpoint windows 8 embraces more of windows presentation foundation, .net and backs away from the legacy windows forms and mfc.

I prefer programming for windows presentation foundation because it is XML based. That makes it really easy to repeat objects via cut and paste. Then you just adjust the x and y values to posititon and easily line things up.
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Online Zero999

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2015, 07:35:21 pm »
Guys, either accept it as it is and stop crying ... or stop using it ;)
i'm sick and tired of guys bitching at microsoft and windows while using their products (in many cases STOLEN products)...

my primary OS for software and hardware development is Linux , but on the other hand i have 2 computers with windows (win7 and win8) and i'm paying also for office365 to microsoft. - i don't say their products are the best... but they do the job for me in some areas.

so use whatever fit your needs or whatever you like, and stop bitching ! ;)

peace for everyone !
The problem is, MS force people to use it.

Still want to use Windows XP? Fine but then you have to put up with new software not running on it, lack of security updates or AV software. Whether you like it or not, you'll end up being forced to use Windows 8 at some point.
 

Online andersm

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2015, 07:40:53 pm »
Folders keep shifting up&down
I would classify that as a bug. I don't use my Windows 8.1 machine very often, but I don't remember Explorer doing that anymore.

Quote
I've had it and I'm moving to Linux and keep Windows XP in a VM.
Speaking of bad UI design... I've used some form or another of Linux for maybe 18 years, and I still haven't found an environment I like. "Unix with a GUI that doesn't suck" is the main reason why I switched my main desktop to OS X. Going from a 2005 Linux to a Mac was quite a revelation. No XF86Config file you have to dick around with just to get graphics? What is this witchcraft?

Online tggzzz

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2015, 08:08:48 pm »
Guys, either accept it as it is and stop crying

It is perfectly reasonable to complain if a company unnecessarily takes away something that enables you to do your job, and replaces it with something that is more expensive. More expensive, for example, in terms of re-training staff and re-purchasing or re-developing software. Especially since users can correctly point out "we told you not to do that and you still did it anywazy"!

Quote
... or stop using it ;)

Apparently many people have been following your exhortation to "stop using it". That's why many MS executives were involuntarily defenestrated and why MS has been forced into the humilating climb-down with Win10!
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n45048

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2015, 09:37:57 pm »
It seems like every "other" version of Windows is always a flop. I think it pretty much started with Windows Millennium Edition, then Vista and now Windows 8.
 

Offline GreyWoolfe

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2015, 09:44:22 pm »
[Still want to use Windows XP? Fine but then you have to put up with new software not running on it, lack of security updates or AV software. Whether you like it or not, you'll end up being forced to use Windows 8 at some point.

Nope, not me.  I use Wiin 7.  I fix issues on WIn8 for SWMBO and stepdaughter but won't use it myself.  I have a sacrificial laptop to upgrade to WIn 10 before I update my main computer. 

It seems like every "other" version of Windows is always a flop. I think it pretty much started with Windows Millennium Edition, then Vista and now Windows 8.
And Millennium (Moron) Edition is a bigger fail than the ribbon bar IMHO.  I had a ME laptop for a part time job installing AOL powered by Direct PC satellite internet to point the dishes.  As soon as the warranty ran out, I upgraded it to XP.  What a relief that was.
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Online nctnico

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2015, 10:11:46 pm »
Folders keep shifting up&down
I would classify that as a bug. I don't use my Windows 8.1 machine very often, but I don't remember Explorer doing that anymore.

Quote
I've had it and I'm moving to Linux and keep Windows XP in a VM.
Speaking of bad UI design... I've used some form or another of Linux for maybe 18 years, and I still haven't found an environment I like. "Unix with a GUI that doesn't suck" is the main reason why I switched my main desktop to OS X. Going from a 2005 Linux to a Mac was quite a revelation. No XF86Config file you have to dick around with just to get graphics? What is this witchcraft?
IMHO OSX isn't bad at all. I often call it 'Linux which works'. Having never used a Mac before I could use it to test one of my USB devices pretty quick. What I don't like about OSX is that Apple keeps everything closed.

Fortunately it isn't difficult to get graphics going on Linux with a modern distro and a well supported video card. I wouldn't call it working from the box but it is just as complicated as it is with Windows.
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n45048

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2015, 10:42:16 pm »
OSX is OK, but I find it less 'configurable' than Windows. It also has a few annoying "features" which make me want to throw the damn thing out the window. For example, if I'm playing a DVD and then eject the disc in Windows, it just stops playing and spits out the disc... great! But in OSX, oh no, you click the eject button in finder and it does nothing, except that drive now disappears totally from finder but still keeps playing and retains the disc. In order to eject, you need to close down whatever software is using the drive, then click eject, not once, but twice (that's after you disconnect the USB DVD drive and reconnect it so the damn drive is recognised again).

What the?!

I like to be able to enable/disable whatever crap I want and I find I can do that with Windows. Except for one thing: The stupid "security scan" that Internet Explorer does after it finishes downloading a file. There is no way to turn that off.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2015, 10:46:13 pm by Halon »
 

Offline rob77

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2015, 10:51:29 pm »
Guys, either accept it as it is and stop crying ... or stop using it ;)
i'm sick and tired of guys bitching at microsoft and windows while using their products (in many cases STOLEN products)...

my primary OS for software and hardware development is Linux , but on the other hand i have 2 computers with windows (win7 and win8) and i'm paying also for office365 to microsoft. - i don't say their products are the best... but they do the job for me in some areas.

so use whatever fit your needs or whatever you like, and stop bitching ! ;)

peace for everyone !
The problem is, MS force people to use it.

Still want to use Windows XP? Fine but then you have to put up with new software not running on it, lack of security updates or AV software. Whether you like it or not, you'll end up being forced to use Windows 8 at some point.

actually the the vendors of the software you're using are forcing you to use windows 8... most of the software is windows only - therefore you're forced to use the latest windows...  if the software you need would be available for all 3 major platforms, then you would have the choice ;)

and the UI changes ? say a big thank you to today's corporate stupidity..... all companies are driven by finance guys not experts in the area of the company's business... and the finance guy sees only "profit" and "how to increase profit" one of the ways to increase profit is innovation.... so they're innovating no matter what ;) but this is happening EVERYWHERE nowadays... it's not microsoft specific.
 

Offline MacAttak

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2015, 11:09:11 pm »
Welcome to being old and set in your ways.  :)


Software vendors always migrate their UI to more closely resemble the operating system UI that is "current" at the time. Given a choice, most users will pick software that looks like it was designed to run in their environment. And at this point, there's a lot of Windows 8 out there in the world. It would be a mistake to not modernize your UI if you are producing a new version of your software. Unless you have a captive user base with no meaningful competition.

It's just like cars. There's a lot of people who really like those old Fiero's... lot's of nostalgia around those cars, and many people still drive them today as though a finer vehicle has never been made. But you don't exactly see new car models designed to look like a Fiero do you?
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #28 on: January 25, 2015, 11:37:01 pm »
Welcome to being old and set in your ways.  :)

I think the constant change-for-the-sake-of-change is bullshit and I'm only 22! :-DD

It's a tool, not a bloody fashion accessory! We don't get new, shiny hammers every three years...
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Offline MacAttak

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2015, 04:53:01 am »
If the only thing they changed was the internal guts to make things better, then nobody would buy it.

Also, sometimes when you add new (good) features, you *must* change the UI to accommodate it. I'm not saying Windows 8 was full of great features that required the massive changes it brought (I HATED windows 8 until 8.1 made it tolerable)... but that was all a direct result of Steve Sinofsky's hubris. "You'll get used to it" was the answer from him whenever win8 was criticised, and if anyone under him disagreed they found themselves without a job very quickly.

Those days are behind Microsoft (thankfully), but the market does dictate that if you want people to buy into your newest operating system release, you need to make it look different.
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2015, 04:56:50 am »
Oh, sure, I understand why they do it. I just wish they didn't have to. ;)
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Offline AlfBaz

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2015, 05:30:55 am »
It's a tool, not a bloody fashion accessory! We don't get new, shiny hammers every three years...
No, but you should. Some of these designs are just to die for  :-*
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=hammers&biw=1680&bih=881&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=adDFVNLAE4PYmgXL3oLAAg&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2015, 06:05:10 am »
It's a tool, not a bloody fashion accessory! We don't get new, shiny hammers every three years...
No, but you should. Some of these designs are just to die for  :-*
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=hammers&biw=1680&bih=881&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=adDFVNLAE4PYmgXL3oLAAg&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ

Found the Windows hammer!  >:D

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Online tggzzz

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2015, 10:14:16 am »
Found the Windows hammer!  >:D


Spot on!

Although to be fair, having a significantly different interface on mouseless tablets is a reasonable and sensible decision. But forcing that onto desktops is (and always was) extremely inappropriate and dimwitted.
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Offline GreyWoolfe

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2015, 02:05:23 pm »
MacAttak, I'm not sure that 8.1 made the OS tolerable.  A touch centric OS is a touch centric OS and it is just not going to play well or make sense in a desktop environment.|O  I like the idea of classicshell, but the laptops belong to SWMBO and stepdaughter and they are happy with the way the laptops are.  SWMBO even likes Metro :-//  I'm not sure that I will even be able to get them to go to Win 10 but I will try.
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Offline Galenbo

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #35 on: January 26, 2015, 03:26:02 pm »
Anybody else hate this useless pile of crap that Windows 8 GUI is and all the blind lemmings falling them off the cliff following it?

I "not yet" hate it.

I use Win7 at the moment, and can't see the advantages over XP.
The only reason I moved from XP to Win7 is that new versions of some programs are payed by Microsoft to abort install on XP.

One day I will also be a blind lemming, for the same reason.

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Offline rdl

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2015, 03:35:06 pm »
That's interesting. I've never run across any programs with an installer that was paid to abort by Microsoft.

I've seen many older installers that would refuse to run on Windows 7 claiming it wouldn't work or was the wrong OS version or some other stupidity. I was always able to get them to work eventually by either running the install in compatibility mode or just installing the software on a XP computer and copying the entire program folder onto the Windows 7 machine.

(Ah, I just now realized you're going the other way, Win 7 software on XP)


The only reason I moved from XP to Win7 is that new versions of some programs are payed by Microsoft to abort install on XP.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2015, 03:37:38 pm by rdl »
 

Online Marco

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2015, 04:29:15 pm »
Although to be fair, having a significantly different interface on mouseless tablets is a reasonable and sensible decision. But forcing that onto desktops is (and always was) extremely inappropriate and dimwitted.

That's not even the worst of it in my opinion, at least we could mostly work around that by sticking to desktop/apps.

The problem is that everything is made a package deal, trying to force everyone over ... the old win32 desktop is simply left to rot with an antiquated security model and no windows store to give people with no clue about the internet some vetted access to applications. Only Metro gets a modern capability based security model and store and windows's reputation goes further down the drain as a result (and to make it a little worse there is no decent way to sideload metro apps, they are walling off the garden worse than OSX).

Microsoft needs to learn to firewall it's core business from the business interests of it's other divisions. The xbox and mobile division are destroying them from within.
 

Offline nfmax

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #38 on: January 26, 2015, 05:16:46 pm »
I agree with you 100% There was nothing good about the Windows 8 interface. It was the 2nd worst thing Microsoft ever came up with (ribbon bar is number one).
Third worst. Remember Clippy...
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #39 on: January 26, 2015, 05:31:35 pm »
It was the blind belief that end users sitting in the office were going to put up with Metro with its one screen, one app mentality that beggars belief. It's not uncommon for me to have, say, 30 windows open at any one time. Very common to be cross-referencing, whether it be for doing the daily orders and shipping, or designing a board from a schematic.

Desktop Windows is not good in a finger-touch environment, the Ui elements are generally too small for accurate prodding. But to force the end user into The Interface Formerly Known As Metro was unforgivable. I hate to admit it, but the first time I used Windows 8 soon after it was released, it took me about a day to figure out how to switch it off without using the Big Red Switch. I could see this cretinous Charms bar thing appearing but didn't know what I did to make it happen. Then it dawned on me, Ctrl-Alt-Del. At least they didn't get rid of that.

Shortly after, realising I was in need of some more self-flagellation, I bought a Surface RT on its release day. I sat in the hotel room, with all the dev tools, and realised that, FFS, you cannot even write "Hello, World" for the POS, they had deliberately crippled the OS from running third party console and Win32 apps. Your only option is TIFKAM on ARM. Windows on ARM is now all but dead as a result.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2015, 05:33:59 pm by Howardlong »
 

Offline rdl

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #40 on: January 26, 2015, 05:52:44 pm »
Third worst. Remember Clippy...

Ha ha, yes I had forgotten about Clippy. I think he belongs in 3rd place though, because you could at least turn him off :)
 

Offline AlfBaz

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #41 on: January 26, 2015, 07:58:45 pm »
Third worst. Remember Clippy...
Hasn't it been renamed to cortana, given a voice and given the keys to the whole OS now?
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #42 on: January 26, 2015, 09:59:13 pm »
 :rant: I started this thread to talk about the GUI changes and their appearance. Microsoft is not the only company/group to make a mess. I just get tired of new things being done just to be new and different. If there is no benefit then it is just fashion and  waste of programming time, or design time.

HP was a master of user interface design with their RPN calculators, that is until the 48SX and GX. They threw out their years of research and design on the easiest colors to use for calculators. With the 48GS/GX they made some ridiculous decision to make the colors fashionable and made the calculator harder to use.

I think everyone can agree that the W8 GUI was a disaster, for the desktop at least.

I finally updated CCleaner, and WTF? More fruity fashion design without reason and it reduces the ease of use. It is change for change, for fashion.  :--

This is what I am complaining about. Just as someone else said here, that Mozilla decided to move tabs above everything else so they aren't tabs anymore. More fruity BS.

Good UI design ignores fashion and looks for what makes interacting with the software more efficient and easier to understand. Only after that should the UI designer consider "prettier" designs as long as it does not reduce usability.

If appealing to fashion was what we needed, then the Rigol DP832 power supply that someone did with a Hello Kitty theme would be a good thing.

The problem is that no one wants to look old and obsolete to the 10 second attention span Internet zombies. "Make it fresh and new"is the mantra instead of "Make it work correctly and logically". 

 

Offline Vgkid

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #43 on: January 26, 2015, 10:04:26 pm »
I must be the only one who has never cared for xp.
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Online nctnico

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #44 on: January 26, 2015, 10:08:07 pm »
I reluctantly moved from Win2k to XP because Win2k started to fall behind too much. Some things in XP are easier but a lot of other stuff is broken compared to Win2k.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #45 on: January 26, 2015, 10:09:29 pm »
I hated the GUI of XP. It was just silly colors stuck on top of WIN2K IMHO. More form over function. It became an OK OS at the end, but the GUI was too silly looking for me so I turned off all the appearance junk.
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #46 on: January 27, 2015, 07:00:24 pm »
I hated the GUI of XP. It was just silly colors stuck on top of WIN2K IMHO. More form over function. It became an OK OS at the end, but the GUI was too silly looking for me so I turned off all the appearance junk.

Not just IMHO, that was exactly what XP was. Windows 2000 was, under the hood, Windows 5.0, and XP was Windows 5.1, so basically 2000 with some lipstick. To this day I rate Windows 2000 it as the best OS to come out of Redmond to date. It was clean and functional, and it supported plug and play peripherals ready for the laptop generation. Also there was no marketing BS around it. It was clear what the different desktop and server products were.

Then along came buzzwords like XP and .NET that simply confused the market, indeed many Microsoft employees didn't really know what .NET was when the marketing guys started talking about "Windows .NET Server", which thankfully became just Windows Server 2003 once released. But there was a year or two of utmost confusion about what .NET was at the time.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2015, 12:32:33 am by Howardlong »
 

Offline Artlav

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #47 on: January 27, 2015, 09:16:27 pm »
I don't think Windows 8 is all that bad. Just takes a little longer to cook it.
You don't use any Windows raw.

The "folders" model of working with files is fundamentally useless in any sort of production environment, so a file manager is the fist thing to install.
The start menu/metro screen is rarely ever seen, since the work programs are started from the file manager, and the documents are opened by clicking on them, thanks to type association.
A quick launch panel is easy to obtain, by many means.
The control panel is easy to navigate thanks to a search bar (i used to know where things were on XP, never learned on 7+, but thanks to a search bar it's not a big problem).
"Windows Store"? Never heard more than rumours of it.

So in the end, all Windows look the same when cooked.
Don't hate - hack and adapt.
Hacking the universe since 2008
Having a life since 2013
 

Offline Stonent

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #48 on: January 28, 2015, 03:25:27 pm »
I don't think Windows 8 is all that bad. Just takes a little longer to cook it.
You don't use any Windows raw.

The "folders" model of working with files is fundamentally useless in any sort of production environment, so a file manager is the fist thing to install.
The start menu/metro screen is rarely ever seen, since the work programs are started from the file manager, and the documents are opened by clicking on them, thanks to type association.
A quick launch panel is easy to obtain, by many means.
The control panel is easy to navigate thanks to a search bar (i used to know where things were on XP, never learned on 7+, but thanks to a search bar it's not a big problem).
"Windows Store"? Never heard more than rumours of it.

So in the end, all Windows look the same when cooked.
Don't hate - hack and adapt.

With the change Vista made in moving things around, I just started learning the commands to get where I needed to be and they work on all versions of windows from 2000 to 8.1

First you hit [Window Key] + R  to pull up the run menu and type one of these commands:

--Windows Utilities--

Cmd                     Command Prompt
Appwiz.cpl           Add/Remove Programs
Devmgmt.msc     Device Manager
Compmgmt.msc  Computer Management (manage my computer)
Sysdm.cpl            Advanced settings (rename computer, join a domain, adjust performance)
Services.msc       Start/Stop services menu
Ncpa.cpl              Network settings
Control                Main control panel
Powercfg.cpl       Power management settings

-- Programs --

Excel                (Duh)
Winword          Microsoft Word
Msaccess         Microsoft access
Powerpnt         Microsoft Powerpoint
Outlook           (Duh)
Mspub            Microsoft Publisher
Pbrush           Windows Paint (useful for quickly pasting a screenshot and adding an annotation)
Snippingtool  Windows snipping tool (screen grabbing and cropping)
Powershell_ISE  Launch the powershell integrated scripting environment

So if you just remember those, you don't have to really deal with the UI much on any windows version
The larger the government, the smaller the citizen.
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #49 on: January 28, 2015, 09:38:38 pm »
I don't think Windows 8 is all that bad. Just takes a little longer to cook it.
You don't use any Windows raw.

The "folders" model of working with files is fundamentally useless in any sort of production environment, so a file manager is the fist thing to install.
The start menu/metro screen is rarely ever seen, since the work programs are started from the file manager, and the documents are opened by clicking on them, thanks to type association.
A quick launch panel is easy to obtain, by many means.
The control panel is easy to navigate thanks to a search bar (i used to know where things were on XP, never learned on 7+, but thanks to a search bar it's not a big problem).
"Windows Store"? Never heard more than rumours of it.

So in the end, all Windows look the same when cooked.
Don't hate - hack and adapt.

With the change Vista made in moving things around, I just started learning the commands to get where I needed to be and they work on all versions of windows from 2000 to 8.1

First you hit [Window Key] + R  to pull up the run menu and type one of these commands:

--Windows Utilities--

Cmd                     Command Prompt
Appwiz.cpl           Add/Remove Programs
Devmgmt.msc     Device Manager
Compmgmt.msc  Computer Management (manage my computer)
Sysdm.cpl            Advanced settings (rename computer, join a domain, adjust performance)
Services.msc       Start/Stop services menu
Ncpa.cpl              Network settings
Control                Main control panel
Powercfg.cpl       Power management settings

-- Programs --

Excel                (Duh)
Winword          Microsoft Word
Msaccess         Microsoft access
Powerpnt         Microsoft Powerpoint
Outlook           (Duh)
Mspub            Microsoft Publisher
Pbrush           Windows Paint (useful for quickly pasting a screenshot and adding an annotation)
Snippingtool  Windows snipping tool (screen grabbing and cropping)
Powershell_ISE  Launch the powershell integrated scripting environment

So if you just remember those, you don't have to really deal with the UI much on any windows version

Apparently, in the Microsoft world, this is "progress"!
 

Online tggzzz

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #50 on: January 28, 2015, 10:26:11 pm »
I don't think Windows 8 is all that bad. Just takes a little longer to cook it.
You don't use any Windows raw.

The "folders" model of working with files is fundamentally useless in any sort of production environment, so a file manager is the fist thing to install.
The start menu/metro screen is rarely ever seen, since the work programs are started from the file manager, and the documents are opened by clicking on them, thanks to type association.
A quick launch panel is easy to obtain, by many means.
The control panel is easy to navigate thanks to a search bar (i used to know where things were on XP, never learned on 7+, but thanks to a search bar it's not a big problem).
"Windows Store"? Never heard more than rumours of it.

So in the end, all Windows look the same when cooked.
Don't hate - hack and adapt.

With the change Vista made in moving things around, I just started learning the commands to get where I needed to be and they work on all versions of windows from 2000 to 8.1

First you hit [Window Key] + R  to pull up the run menu and type one of these commands:

--Windows Utilities--

Cmd                     Command Prompt
Appwiz.cpl           Add/Remove Programs
Devmgmt.msc     Device Manager
Compmgmt.msc  Computer Management (manage my computer)
Sysdm.cpl            Advanced settings (rename computer, join a domain, adjust performance)
Services.msc       Start/Stop services menu
Ncpa.cpl              Network settings
Control                Main control panel
Powercfg.cpl       Power management settings

-- Programs --

Excel                (Duh)
Winword          Microsoft Word
Msaccess         Microsoft access
Powerpnt         Microsoft Powerpoint
Outlook           (Duh)
Mspub            Microsoft Publisher
Pbrush           Windows Paint (useful for quickly pasting a screenshot and adding an annotation)
Snippingtool  Windows snipping tool (screen grabbing and cropping)
Powershell_ISE  Launch the powershell integrated scripting environment

So if you just remember those, you don't have to really deal with the UI much on any windows version

Apparently, in the Microsoft world, this is "progress"!

I thought it was the power shell that was the real progress :) Back to the future!
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline Stonent

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #51 on: February 01, 2015, 04:05:53 pm »
I'm really loving powershell. After learning C# I mentioned to my boss that I'd like to write some utilities with it and sort of got a somewhat tepid response. The concern was writing compiled software makes them nervous.
I had shown him a program I wrote that completely replicated in every detail the function of one of our digital signage displays.

So over Christmas break I taught myself powershell and rewrote the full graphical program in it. He seemed pretty amazed that you can write a full guied application in powershell. It was because you can easily make .NET calls from it. So  we are testing it now.

So a full program with WPF running in powershell.
The larger the government, the smaller the citizen.
 

Offline electronics-whiz

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #52 on: February 02, 2015, 02:46:19 am »
As an I.T person to many of us win 8 was MS just being cheap. XP was set to end, they wanted mobile OS, instead of putting in work for two versions they said send it out as is. Win 10 will be free for personal use if upgrade from 8.1 or 7. They seem to be listening to customers a bit more now. They were going to do a cloud OS many said no that is now a dead idea.

I think MS has another 5-10 yrs of real market. I think linux is going to end up destroying them. The fact that they had all these plans then people went against it it seems they know they have an enemy to fight. (Linux, and apple to a degree.) I think had win 10 upgrade been like $100 like win 7 new, or 8 upgrade. I think many would say i'll stay put or go to linux. If people start going to something else and figure out linux, etc they probably won't go back to MS, and office, etc is a huge $$ for MS. Give out OS, they buy the other stuff.
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #53 on: February 02, 2015, 06:05:58 am »
I think MS has another 5-10 yrs of real market. I think linux is going to end up destroying them.

I keep hearing the same thing for at least the last 20 years
 

Online tggzzz

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #54 on: February 02, 2015, 10:09:08 am »
I think MS has another 5-10 yrs of real market. I think linux is going to end up destroying them.

I keep hearing the same thing for at least the last 20 years

Just so.

I remember hearing that MS+Intel would destroy IBM, often under the moniker of "the march of the killer micros". It didn't happen of course - although if Cringely is right, 25% of their employees might beg to differ.

But MS will be supplanted by alternatives that for many people are more attractive than a full blown OS. MS core product revenue growth will be greatly reduced, but it won't die. I don't count the revenue MS gets from Android sales as core product revenue.

All the signs are there, just as they were for IBM. But it will take a generation, just as it did with IBM.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline rollatorwieltje

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #55 on: February 02, 2015, 10:13:43 am »

I think MS has another 5-10 yrs of real market. I think linux is going to end up destroying them.

I doubt it. The greatest strength of Linux is also it's greatest inhibitor for mass use. Imagine if Windows wasn't here, every PC manufacturer would have it's custom flavor of Linux. This would be a pain in the ass to support. It's not just the look and feel, it's stuff like a driver model that keeps changing. Can I write my software to use DBus or not? Do I have udev? Or do I have eudev because someone didn't like udev? Maybe my system is old and still uses hotplug? What graphics toolkit is installed? Qt? GTK? Maybe something else?

"Linux" solves the driver issue by wanting everything open source, so they can maintain their drivers to always work with whatever change they came up with. This just doesn't work for HW vendors, many drivers contain proprietary stuff. I don't think closed source licenses are going away anytime soon.

Same for the actual software packages. Try installing something that's not in the repository. How do I have to package my software? .deb? .rpm? How do I define dependencies? Companies like Debian maintain these packages and dependencies, but they only maintain open source stuff. Imagine MS being responsible for maintaining every piece of software available for Windows... They are barely able to maintain their Xbox game store...
 

Online andersm

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #56 on: February 02, 2015, 10:08:09 pm »
I think MS has another 5-10 yrs of real market. I think linux is going to end up destroying them.
I keep hearing the same thing for at least the last 20 years
Surely this will be the year of Linux on the desktop?

Online Zero999

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #57 on: February 02, 2015, 11:18:45 pm »
[Still want to use Windows XP? Fine but then you have to put up with new software not running on it, lack of security updates or AV software. Whether you like it or not, you'll end up being forced to use Windows 8 at some point.

Nope, not me.  I use Wiin 7.  I fix issues on WIn8 for SWMBO and stepdaughter but won't use it myself.  I have a sacrificial laptop to upgrade to WIn 10 before I update my main computer. 
That's true but perhaps I should've said a newer version of Windows rather than specifically Windows 8. Whatever you do, if you want to keep using the latest hardware and software, you'll be forced to upgrade to the latest Windows version sooner or later.
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #58 on: February 03, 2015, 03:15:25 pm »
I used to get irritated by every new release of Windows, because it was "different".  But I've found, over the years, that if I just suck it up and roll with it... I generally end up liking the changes better. 

I still believe one of the reasons most people hated Vista is that it was different from XP... but liked 7 because it was almost identical to Vista. 

I run Windows 7 at work and Windows 8 at home... I like Windows 8 a bit better because it's faster, but I also learned (after trying to roll with 8 for a while) to just install Classic Shell and get the start button back.  That truly was a mistake on Microsoft's part.

I find the latest version of MS Office to be absurd.  Whoever designed the UI needs to be taken out back and shot.  Example - if you're in a document in Word but want to open another... you click File->Open.  Your whole screen disappears and you come to a new screen that shows your recently opened documents.  Then you have to click "computer", where it shows you recently opened documents on your computer.  Then you have to click "browse" before you FINALLY get a folder window to let you see your drives/folders.  And if you want to exit out of this nonsense, you have to click the back button at the top left of the screen.  It looks like MS Word opened up a whole new window because your document has disappeared, but if you click "close" or the Windows X button, it will close MS word completely... when did a back button become standard on a UI?

It's completely confusing.  It seems designed for idiots who don't know how to use a computer - and (forgive me Apple people) I think MS is going after the Apple "need to be told each day how to tie your shoelaces" crowd you have no clue how to use a computer.  But for someone like me with organized folders on his computer, it's a huge PITA.

Lots of other examples too.  It irritates me when I look up how to do something and it says "swipe in from the right side, and type 'networking' in the search box".  I don't want to have to search for everything, I just want it logically located in a control/settings folder like before.

And speaking of which, why is MS always moving stuff around the control panel?  Every different version has a different location and method of setting up networking.  Infuriating!
It's not always the most popular person who gets the job done.
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: Windows 8ifying of everything, why?
« Reply #59 on: February 03, 2015, 10:04:23 pm »
Corporate666:

I can't think of one thing I'd disagree with in that. I also recently "upgraded" to Office 2013 from Office 2010, I just don't get it, what were they thinking? Who are these so-called UI experts?
 


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