Author Topic: Windows is getting disgusting  (Read 160435 times)

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Offline suicidaleggroll

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #550 on: January 27, 2017, 09:18:27 pm »
Linux isn't an option for me. I need AVR Studio, Visual Studio, Resolve and other programms. I rather figure out stoping windows from doing certain things, than learning how to use a entire new os, where certain programs aren't even available.

VMs are good for that.  You don't really have to worry about the keyloggers and spying when you only boot that OS for a few hours to do one specific job and then shut it off again.  I will never run Windows on bare metal again, but I do have a few Windows VMs floating around for the odd program that needs it.
 

Offline Marco

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #551 on: January 27, 2017, 09:29:40 pm »
To be honest, big corporates are disgusting. Google, Apple and other big ad networks operate similarly in their respective domains.

Apple is different, they make so much money on the hardware that they are more careful about their image with regards to privacy than the others.

Monetary incentives are the best incentive, you can trust Apple more than most. Which I find unfortunate, because a hardware monoculture in mobile&pc would be bad for technological progress. It is what it is though.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #552 on: January 27, 2017, 11:07:09 pm »
I've never been a fan of Apple, but they did get one thing very right that Microsoft got very, very wrong. Mobile and Desktop (which includes traditional laptops) are two very different use cases. There is some small amount of overlap but for the most part people don't want mobile apps on their PC and they don't want full fledged productivity software on their mobile devices. Trying to make one platform that does both and has the same experience across devices means making huge compromises and the result is a product that tries to do everything and does nothing well.
 

Offline eugenenine

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #553 on: January 28, 2017, 12:04:19 am »
Depends on how you define "got right".  I listen to guys at work having when itunes decides to move everything form their phone to the cloud.  Or the one who complains that his battery life is affected because we have a bad wifi access point so his iphone 7 keeps jumping on others even though no one else has that issue.  Seems like the iphone users have to fix something after every forced update.

I don't like Google's way of doing things but Android phones can at least be used without signing into Google so that makes them the best choice.  I sync my own data to me own cloud.
 

Offline suicidaleggroll

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #554 on: January 28, 2017, 12:37:44 am »
I don't like Google's way of doing things but Android phones can at least be used without signing into Google so that makes them the best choice.  I sync my own data to me own cloud.
So do I, and I have an iPhone.  There's no need to use iCloud with Apple, the only reason I have to sign in to Apple on my phone is for "Find My iPhone", which lets you locate the phone if it's lost or remotely wipe it if it gets stolen.  All syncing and backups are to my own computer, nothing goes to the cloud.
 

Offline Hensingler

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #555 on: January 28, 2017, 01:02:48 am »
that Microsoft got very, very wrong. Mobile and Desktop (which includes traditional laptops) are two very different use cases.

They didn't get it wrong it was (and still is) completely intentional. They abuse their near monopoly of the desktop to try to force their attempt at a mobile OS on a very large number of users.

The question was how much can they abuse their existing customers to support their effort to play catchup with apple and google and the answer turned out to be more than anyone could imagine.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #556 on: January 28, 2017, 01:08:25 am »
Depends on how you define "got right".  I listen to guys at work having when itunes decides to move everything form their phone to the cloud.  Or the one who complains that his battery life is affected because we have a bad wifi access point so his iphone 7 keeps jumping on others even though no one else has that issue.  Seems like the iphone users have to fix something after every forced update.

I don't like Google's way of doing things but Android phones can at least be used without signing into Google so that makes them the best choice.  I sync my own data to me own cloud.

That sounds like bugs, I never said Apple software doesn't have bugs, I said that they got the paradigm right. Win10 could in some alternate universe be absolutely bug-free, and it would still be horribly broken because the design itself is broken. Melding mobile and desktop doesn't work, it's like bolting a bicycle to a car.
 

Offline suicidaleggroll

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #557 on: January 28, 2017, 01:12:03 am »
people don't want mobile apps on their PC ... Trying to make one platform that does both and has the same experience across devices means making huge compromises and the result is a product that tries to do everything and does nothing well.
What gets me is they threw that trash known as Metro on their server OSs as well!  Who in the hell wants to use an interface designed for a touch screen tablet on a SERVER!?!  It boggles the mind.
 

Offline Marco

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #558 on: January 28, 2017, 02:14:18 am »
They abuse their near monopoly of the desktop

Between the overwhelming dominance of Macbooks in laptop sales and the rise of chromebooks I'd say it's very ill advised to rely on this indefinitely.

Microsoft should never have tried to play "catch up" (you can't catch up to Apple and Google at the same time, they have two fundamentally different business models). They should have played to their own strengths.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 02:16:43 am by Marco »
 

Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #559 on: January 28, 2017, 04:00:45 am »
I have not played with windows 10 much myself but I presume one way to block this stuff is to block all the outgoing connections to their servers right at your firewall.  They probably use the same IPs for updates too though so you'd lose ability to update. 
 

Online rsjsouza

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #560 on: January 28, 2017, 04:13:35 am »
Between the overwhelming dominance of Macbooks in laptop sales and the rise of chromebooks I'd say it's very ill advised to rely on this indefinitely.
Not quite:
http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apple-2015-notebook-market-share/

Also, chromebooks are internet oriented gadgets. Their market reach is currently limited to the domestic market.
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Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Online RoGeorge

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #561 on: January 28, 2017, 10:08:43 am »
I have not played with windows 10 much myself but I presume one way to block this stuff is to block all the outgoing connections to their servers right at your firewall.  They probably use the same IPs for updates too though so you'd lose ability to update.

That is the biggest danger/offense/problem that people is complaining about. You are no longer in control of your machine.

You set something, then your setting is ignored without warning. If you notice it doesn't work as you set it, then you spend hours debugging what is wrong, just to find out it's a new "feature", and it's in the EULA too. You agreed with EULA, so have a nice life.

E.g. https://www.petri.com/windows-10-ignoring-hosts-file-specific-name-resolution

Offline ovnr

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #562 on: January 28, 2017, 10:29:02 am »
E.g. https://www.petri.com/windows-10-ignoring-hosts-file-specific-name-resolution

Haha. Oh, MS, you never cease to amaze me in how user-hostile you can get.

My policy is that I'll stick with Win7 until it becomes nonviable, then move to Linux. Unless MS does a complete 180 and launches Win11 with all the fucking nonsense stripped out, which is about as likely as me winning every lottery in the world at once.

What annoys me the most isn't that MS has completely fucked up everything they've touched the last 5 or so years, it's the apologists. "Oh, but the lusers can't be trusted with that", "I'm sure they would never abuse any collected data", "But this is the future, just accept it", "Once you get used to it you'll love it", and so on. Really? Did you get Stockholm syndrome from a fucking OS upgrade, or are you just stupid?

I have no issue accepting that certain changes were needed due to your average luser fucking up their machine, but things like intentionally reverting settings and that sort of shit isn't fine. If MS made power users jump through hoops to set things (group policies, registry tweaks, etc), that'd be fine. Just respect that people don't want all your new shit and let them use their own damn computer the way they want to.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #563 on: January 28, 2017, 11:49:22 am »
E.g. https://www.petri.com/windows-10-ignoring-hosts-file-specific-name-resolution

Haha. Oh, MS, you never cease to amaze me in how user-hostile you can get.

My policy is that I'll stick with Win7 until it becomes nonviable, then move to Linux.
You are too kind; I moved to Linux when XP started to misbehave too much.
Recently it took 3 days to re-install Windows7 on my wife's laptop from a recovery partition on the harddrive. First 2 days to install, then 1 day to work on the updates and then over an hour to install the printer (HP office network printer) and USB scanner (the latter take 3 and 0 mouse clicks on Linux).
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #564 on: January 28, 2017, 12:52:44 pm »
E.g. https://www.petri.com/windows-10-ignoring-hosts-file-specific-name-resolution

Haha. Oh, MS, you never cease to amaze me in how user-hostile you can get.

My policy is that I'll stick with Win7 until it becomes nonviable, then move to Linux.
You are too kind; I moved to Linux when XP started to misbehave too much.
Recently it took 3 days to re-install Windows7 on my wife's laptop from a recovery partition on the harddrive. First 2 days to install, then 1 day to work on the updates and then over an hour to install the printer (HP office network printer) and USB scanner (the latter take 3 and 0 mouse clicks on Linux).

MS pretty much broke Windows updates on Windows 7, so they now provide monthly (in)convenience rollup packages that you have to know about which do dramatically speed up the process. If you don't know about them, it'll take of the oreder of days to install as you discovered. Just like Linux, if you have the benefit of the right experience, many tasks can be expedited. But no OS is turnkey nowadays, they all have shitty bugs, mostly self induced by cramming in useless bloat features needlessly, unnecessarily deprecating stuff, and, particuarly for Microsoft nowadays, too little attention paid to regression testing. Apparently that's progress.
 

Offline ovnr

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #565 on: January 28, 2017, 01:28:43 pm »
Windows updates on a fresh install: WSUS offline to the rescue. Though, it's started needing a swift kick to the arse first to get going.
 

Offline rdl

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #566 on: January 28, 2017, 10:57:44 pm »
The last time I re-installed Windows 7, I couldn't get the updates to work because they'd changed how it works. I screwed around for a day or so and finally gave up. I meant to fix it for good at some point, but it's been like 3 months now and all is fine. Most of those updates are to fix security problems with internet explorer which I never use. That computer is only used for games and a bit of youtube anyway.
 

Offline amspire

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #567 on: January 28, 2017, 11:18:02 pm »
The last time I re-installed Windows 7, I couldn't get the updates to work because they'd changed how it works. I screwed around for a day or so and finally gave up. I meant to fix it for good at some point, but it's been like 3 months now and all is fine. Most of those updates are to fix security problems with internet explorer which I never use. That computer is only used for games and a bit of youtube anyway.
If you go to Programs and Features, and then go into the "Turn Windows Features On or Off" (or whatever they call it in Win7), you can disable Internet Explorer.

On some dual graphics notebooks, IE10 will not install after a clean Windows7 installation and it stops all following Windows 7 updates. Disabling IE allows the Windows updates to work.
 

Offline suicidaleggroll

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #568 on: January 29, 2017, 12:59:45 am »
Ugh...IE

I remember back in 2001 or so I was cleaning up my computer and decided to uninstall IE because A: I never used it, and B: it was a piece of crap.  Windows happily removed it, and as a result basically bricked the entire OS.  Not even reinstalling it fixed the problem, I ended up having to wipe and reinstall the entire OS.  That was the moment I started seriously considering Linux.  If MS could be so arrogant that they would knowingly integrate their shitty web browser into the core of the OS to the point that removing it would brick the entire system, then that's a company I want nothing to do with.  It's only gotten worse since then...much, much worse.
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #569 on: January 29, 2017, 01:18:47 am »
E.g. https://www.petri.com/windows-10-ignoring-hosts-file-specific-name-resolution

Haha. Oh, MS, you never cease to amaze me in how user-hostile you can get.

My policy is that I'll stick with Win7 until it becomes nonviable, then move to Linux. Unless MS does a complete 180 and launches Win11 with all the fucking nonsense stripped out, which is about as likely as me winning every lottery in the world at once.

100% agree. I'm a firm believer of "why fix something that isn't broken?".

I still run Windows XP on my laptop (not my primary machine but one I use several times a week). Why? Because it's reasonably quick and does exactly what I need it to do.  My main machine is running Windows 7 and I'll continue to do so until at least the extended support period ends in 2020.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #570 on: January 29, 2017, 01:40:23 am »
The last time I re-installed Windows 7, I couldn't get the updates to work because they'd changed how it works.
Now you mentioned it I recall needing to install some hotfix before the updates would work. I already purged that from my memory!
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline ECEdesign

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #571 on: January 29, 2017, 03:27:25 am »
@nctnico what flavor of Linux are you running?  I am trying to switch to debian but there are a lot of programs I need in windows and getting things to work in linux tends to be fairly finicky.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #572 on: January 29, 2017, 04:50:58 am »
I've tried a bunch of different distros but I always seem to come back to Debian.
 

Offline rdl

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #573 on: January 29, 2017, 08:56:10 am »
The last time I re-installed Windows 7, I couldn't get the updates to work because they'd changed how it works.
Now you mentioned it I recall needing to install some hotfix before the updates would work. I already purged that from my memory!

Best I remember, you have to turn the automatic updates off, then manually download and install one specific update. After that it will work normally. You have to inspect every update's KB number though, because there's a bunch that add a lot of the same "telemetry" as Windows 10 and need to be blocked.
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #574 on: January 29, 2017, 11:03:18 am »
As I mentioned earlier, you need to run the current "Convenience Rollup" for Windows 7.

MS really need to do some soul searching, the practical benefits of using Windows as opposed to other options are diminishing rapidly.
 


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