Author Topic: Windows is getting disgusting  (Read 157785 times)

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Offline blueskull

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #75 on: February 08, 2016, 07:14:58 am »
I can't understand why anyone would want an OS you have to fight with to make it act in a non-invasive, privacy respecting manner. I'll be sticking with Windows 7 until Microsoft learns to keep their greedy noses out of my business. If they never do, then so be it.

Because as per Wintel collaboration, from Skylake (and equivalent AMD platforms, possibly Zen), Windows 7 will not be officially supported.
You can back port Win10 drivers and boot image back to Win7, but not everyone can do that, and that is illegal as well.
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #76 on: February 08, 2016, 07:20:03 am »
rdl:

Please be aware that many updates for W7 and W8 are just to add the capabilities for the spying that W10 provides.

http://www.ghacks.net/2016/01/26/block-all-windows-10-components-on-windows-7-and-8/
https://github.com/WindowsLies/BlockWindows
http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/
 

Offline Alexei.Polkhanov

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #77 on: February 08, 2016, 07:29:00 am »
Hmm, what I did first when I installed Win 10 is I blocked all network addresses that Microsoft is using on my firewall - NOT Windows firewall and NOT in "hosts" file on your PC but your physical firewall. Please note that some Windows services use IP addresses hard-coded into parts of OS to bypass possible spoofing in which case bot IP and DNS name need to be blocked by blacklisting it on your firewall.

Example of short list:

65.52.108.0/14 #update.microsoft.com, licensing.md.mp.microsoft.com, v10.vortex-win.data.microsoft.com. Update has an alternate in another range.
104.40.0.0/13
204.79.196.0/23 #Start menu searches.
23.93.0.0/13
157.54.0.0/15
157.60.0.0/16
191.236.0.0/14
207.46.0.0/16
131.253.62.0/23
131.253.64.0/18
131.253.61.0/24 #login.live.com
131.253.128.0/17
191.232.0.0/14 #settings-win.data.microsoft.com

157.56.0.0/14 #sls.update.microsoft.com
191.232.0.0/14 #windowsupdate.microsoft.com


# [Block M$]
 # [Block M$]
127.0.0.1  dns.msftncsi.com
127.0.0.1  ipv6.msftncsi.com
127.0.0.1  win10.ipv6.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1  ipv6.msftncsi.com.edgesuite.net
127.0.0.1  a978.i6g1.akamai.net
127.0.0.1  win10.ipv6.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
127.0.0.1  en-us.appex-rf.msn.com
127.0.0.1  v10.vortex-win.data.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1  client.wns.windows.com
127.0.0.1  wildcard.appex-rf.msn.com.edgesuite.net
127.0.0.1  v10.vortex-win.data.metron.life.com.nsatc.net
127.0.0.1  wns.notify.windows.com.akadns.net
127.0.0.1  americas2.notify.windows.com.akadns.net
127.0.0.1  travel.tile.appex.bing.com
127.0.0.1  any.edge.bing.com
127.0.0.1  fe3.delivery.mp.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1  fe3.delivery.dsp.mp.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
127.0.0.1  ssw.live.com
127.0.0.1  ssw.live.com.nsatc.net
127.0.0.1  login.live.com.nsatc.net
127.0.0.1  directory.services.live.com
127.0.0.1  directory.services.live.com.akadns.net
127.0.0.1  bl3302.storage.live.com
127.0.0.1  skyapi.live.net
127.0.0.1  bl3302geo.storage.dkyprod.akadns.net
127.0.0.1  skyapi.skyprod.akadns.net
127.0.0.1  skydrive.wns.windows.com
127.0.0.1  register.mesh.com
127.0.0.1  BN1WNS2011508.wns.windows.com
127.0.0.1  settings-win.data.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1  settings.data.glbdns2.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1  OneSettings-bn2.metron.live.com.nsatc.net
127.0.0.1  watson.telemetry.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1  watson.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
127.0.0.1  vortex.data.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1  vortex-win.data.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1  telecommand.telemetry.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1  telecommand.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
127.0.0.1  oca.telemetry.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1  oca.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
127.0.0.1  sqm.telemetry.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1  sqm.telemetry.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
127.0.0.1  redir.metaservices.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1  choice.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1  choice.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
127.0.0.1  df.telemetry.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1  reports.wes.df.telemetry.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1  wes.df.telemetry.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1  services.wes.df.telemetry.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1  sqm.df.telemetry.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1  telemetry.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1  watson.ppe.telemetry.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1  telemetry.appex.bing.net
127.0.0.1  telemetry.urs.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1  telemetry.appex.bing.net:443
127.0.0.1  settings-sandbox.data.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1  vortex-sandbox.data.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1  survey.watson.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1  watson.live.com
127.0.0.1  watson.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1  statsfe2.ws.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1  corpext.msitadfs.glbdns2.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1  compatexchange.cloudapp.net
127.0.0.1  cs1.wpc.v0cdn.net
127.0.0.1  a-0001.a-msedge.net
127.0.0.1  statsfe2.update.microsoft.com.akadns.net
127.0.0.1  sls.update.microsoft.com.akadns.net
127.0.0.1  fe2.update.microsoft.com.akadns.net
127.0.0.1  diagnostics.support.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1  corp.sts.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1  statsfe1.ws.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1  pre.footprintpredict.com
127.0.0.1  i1.services.social.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1  i1.services.social.microsoft.com.nsatc.net
127.0.0.1  feedback.windows.com
127.0.0.1  feedback.microsoft-hohm.com
127.0.0.1  feedback.search.microsoft.com
127.0.0.1  preview.msn.com
127.0.0.1  ad.doubleclick.net
127.0.0.1  ads.msn.com
127.0.0.1  ads1.msads.net
127.0.0.1  a.ads1.msn.com
127.0.0.1  a.ads2.msn.com
127.0.0.1  adnexus.net
127.0.0.1  adnxs.com
127.0.0.1  az361816.vo.msecnd.net
127.0.0.1  az512334.vo.msecnd.net
# [End Block M$]
 

Offline crispy_tofu

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #78 on: February 08, 2016, 08:00:25 am »
...many updates for W7 and W8 are just to add the capabilities for the spying that W10 provides.
Screw it, I'm going back to that other Windows version that no-one talks about...  :scared:
 

Offline rdl

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #79 on: February 08, 2016, 08:14:42 am »
Yes, I'm well aware that Microsoft has been attempting to back port their "telemetry" capabilities. I watch the updates like a hawk.

I plan to keep one Windows computer just for games and it may eventually have to use Windows 10, but if so it's ability to connect to the internet will be severely limited. Pretty much everything else I need can be done with Linux. I am not looking forward to converting 8 TB of data files on six drives from NTFS though.

I saw somewhere that through other companies Microsoft owns they have over a thousand websites they can connect through. I'm not sure it will be possible to be certain of blocking them all.
 

Offline Alexei.Polkhanov

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #80 on: February 08, 2016, 08:34:26 am »
It is easy to identify all sites that Windows is trying to contact - just have Windows computer on your network and log every IP/DNS address it is trying to contact with Wireshark or dedicated machine/router. This way you cannot miss any sites it will try to contact. Of course you cannot guarantee that new sites will be introduced but in order to add new sites MS will have to push them through their update system. So essentially it is cat and mouse situation. Every update installed on your PC potentially adds another privacy breach.

Potential solution is to have one Windows 10 machine on your network without any applications or other software installed and then immediately block any IP address it is trying to communicate to for all other PCs  on your local network. I think you can do it with an IDS software like Snort.

It maybe possible to have several Windows 10 machines running at different locations and track their botnet access points in real time. If list is shared openly then everyone could use as automatic blacklist for their firewalls. Exactly same system is used to block entire mail servers that used to send SPAM. Very old, reliable solution that can easily be crowdsourced! We can fight back when we have will.
 

Offline HackedFridgeMagnet

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #81 on: February 08, 2016, 09:19:54 am »
If they're going to try collecting data, why not write an app to feed them junk? If there's enough junk data mixed in, they might just give up on the whole idea.
I like the idea but would that be borderline illegal?
Some of those anti hacker laws are so general that I would be worried about writing any script that purposely sends unwanted data to a corporation.
 

Offline Mechanical Menace

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #82 on: February 08, 2016, 03:40:21 pm »
Ok, I only use Windows for gaming so this isn't that big an issue foe me but am I getting the wrong impression from this thread that turning off all the data mining options doesn't actually stop Windows 10 sending the info to MS?
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Offline Muxr

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #83 on: February 08, 2016, 03:59:26 pm »
...many updates for W7 and W8 are just to add the capabilities for the spying that W10 provides.
Screw it, I'm going back to that other Windows version that no-one talks about...  :scared:
XP? XP was the best Windows, which is not saying much. I have a Windows 7 in a VM which I use for when the app isn't supported anywhere else (OS X or Linux), will stick with it for as long as I can, and if I can't run Windows 7 anymore I guess that's it no more Windows for me.
 

Offline HAL-42b

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #84 on: February 08, 2016, 04:05:20 pm »
Ok, I only use Windows for gaming so this isn't that big an issue foe me but am I getting the wrong impression from this thread that turning off all the data mining options doesn't actually stop Windows 10 sending the info to MS?

That is correct. Extensively documented on other forums.

Also downgrading to previous versions of Windows won't save you.
 

Offline DimitriP

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #85 on: February 08, 2016, 04:27:59 pm »
Quote
Potential solution is to have one Windows 10 machine on your network without any applications or other software installed and then immediately block any IP address it is trying to communicate to for all other PCs  on your local network. I think you can do it with an IDS software like Snort.

Time for a new breed of routers with snort built in a'la :  http://elatov.github.io/2015/08/running-snort-on-dd-wrt/

   If three 100  Ohm resistors are connected in parallel, and in series with a 200 Ohm resistor, how many resistors do you have? 
 

Offline rdl

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #86 on: February 08, 2016, 04:47:54 pm »
Also downgrading to previous versions of Windows won't save you.

Why is that?

I wouldn't trust Windows 8, but I thought Windows 7 was okay as long as those few well known (and any future) telemetry backporting updates were avoided.
 

Offline Mechanical Menace

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #87 on: February 08, 2016, 05:01:28 pm »
Time for a new breed of routers with snort built in a'la :  http://elatov.github.io/2015/08/running-snort-on-dd-wrt/

Why on earth would you need that for this? Not bad mouthing Snort or this project at all but it just seems overkill when all you need to do is find out what IPs/URLs and ports to block.
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Offline AF6LJ

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #88 on: February 08, 2016, 05:09:52 pm »
Count me among those who think Microsoft Windows was always disgusting. So was DOS btw.

Microsoft: "Let's put all categories of configuration and state information for everything in the Windows OS, GUI and user applications, all mixed together in one giant central database. But with most of it undocumented. Oh, and we'll break it into arbitrary parts, give them ridiculous names, keep the only current version in memory, make sure there's no easy way to save and restore it as a simple, single compact file, and provide a really crap utility to search/edit/debug it. We'll make the data structures it contains arcane and poorly documented, all the better to hide things (like our deliberate 'look and feel' UI cripples - icon position data, cough.) By obfuscation we'll ensure it always grows ever larger and cruftier over time. Essential linkages will be inscrutible numeric CLSIDs, rather than containing any human-comprehensible descriptive text. The mixing of OS and user-app config data will make your working environment of installed software tools totally uncloneable, thus forcing you to frequently waste hours and days rebuilding it all. The operating system and most applications will critically depend on it, which will make it a central point of failure able to take down a whole machine via the slightest corruption. If that should by unlikely chance ever happen, bwahahaha! Not that we insist you regularly buy a new PC and OS or anything!
 We'll call it The Windows Registry. We originally wanted to call it the Microsoft BOGU (Benign Object for Greater Utility) but Mr Gates vetoed that for some reason."

Could go on for pages listing the unacceptable things in Windows and Microsoft's OS development path concepts, but there's no point. Not going to change anyone's views.

The thing I find most amazing about Windows, is that the great majority of users just go along with it, and from either ignorance or confirmation bias, convince themselves that it's mostly wonderful.  As opposed to recognizing Windows is an evil pile of malformed, deliberately obfuscated, bloated, spying crippleware, for which Microsoft should be destroyed with maximum prejudice.
The Windows registry files has always been my main beef with Windows.
I preferred the .nix and OS/2 way of doing things.. Configuration files were easy to edit, you could comment them and move on. The five registry files are security through obscurity.
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Offline Lightages

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #89 on: February 08, 2016, 05:39:13 pm »
What I would like to know is how Microsoft is getting away with this behavior? It is illegal, I think, in most of the world to tamper with a person's computer to gain access to their data. They are even trying to do against my express wishes to avoid their intrusion.
 

Offline Mechanical Menace

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #90 on: February 08, 2016, 05:43:46 pm »
What I would like to know is how Microsoft is getting away with this behavior? It is illegal, I think, in most of the world to tamper with a person's computer to gain access to their data. They are even trying to do against my express wishes to avoid their intrusion.

Most likely we agreed to it when we pretended we read the EULA to get the OS to install :-\
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Offline Lightages

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #91 on: February 08, 2016, 05:46:21 pm »
EULAs are not valid in some countries, and I don't think the EULA for WIN7 said anything about MS allowing them to install spying software and access to all your files.
 

Offline HAL-42b

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #92 on: February 08, 2016, 05:49:39 pm »
What I would like to know is how Microsoft is getting away with this behavior? It is illegal, I think, in most of the world to tamper with a person's computer to gain access to their data. They are even trying to do against my express wishes to avoid their intrusion.

They are getting away with it because they are an American corporation doing what the American government tells them to do.

America has fought wars for their corporations. I thought this was well known in South America.
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #93 on: February 08, 2016, 05:49:45 pm »
Alexei.Polkhanov:
Any idea if any site has a constantly updated list of IPs to block?



More:
http://tech.slashdot.org/story/16/02/06/1550249/even-with-telemetry-disabled-windows-10-talks-to-dozens-of-microsoft-servers
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #94 on: February 08, 2016, 05:56:25 pm »
They are getting away with it because they are an American corporation doing what the American government tells them to do.
America has fought wars for their corporations. I thought this was well known in South America.

Of course I know that part of it.  :palm: The world is a bit bigger than the Americas and many other countries have ruled against EULAs and Microsoft in the post. I think the USA should change its name to UCA, United Corporations of America.
 

Offline AlxDroidDev

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #95 on: February 08, 2016, 06:03:21 pm »
Is there anyway to permanently prevent Win10 from getting into my hard drive?

Yes. Try this:

GWX Stopper
http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/08/using-gwx-stopper-to-permanently-remove.html
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Offline miguelvp

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #96 on: February 08, 2016, 06:05:33 pm »
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #97 on: February 08, 2016, 06:12:37 pm »
I don't think is any one method to fix this problem permanently. The tools I have been using up until now include:
https://voat.co/v/technology/comments/459263/new
http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/
https://github.com/WindowsLies/BlockWindows

and checking the information about each update that is available before installing it or hiding it. Even then, the hidden updates seem to pop up again later and need to be killed again. MS updates is the new whack a mole game.
 

Offline cimmo

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #98 on: February 09, 2016, 04:57:58 am »
Pretty much everything else I need can be done with Linux. I am not looking forward to converting 8 TB of data files on six drives from NTFS though.

Why would you need to?
Linux reads and writes to NTFS volumes with no dramas whatsoever (and allows formatting and all sorts of disk management as well).

I don't know why knowledgable folks here cannot learn the lesson that Micro$oft is preaching. The only solution to Windows is some other operating system and Linux (in whatever flavour suits) is a perfectly valid alternative for almost everyone.

Just a few weeks ago I built a skylake machine and installed Ubuntu Mate 15:10. A few minor tweaks and it's rock solid, no worries.
And it boots in <9 seconds.

BTW, I HAD to build this machine from parts because it is now impossible to buy a new pre-built PC from a branded manufacturer WITHOUT Windows pre-installed (and licence fee paid). This sort of market manipulation/monopoly abuse is just not on and I will not be a party to it (MS provides lower cost licences to these OEMs on the proviso that they do not offer for sale any PC with an alternative OS).

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Offline Alexei.Polkhanov

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Re: Windows is getting disgusting
« Reply #99 on: February 09, 2016, 05:11:42 am »
BTW, I HAD to build this machine from parts because it is now impossible to buy a new pre-built PC from a branded manufacturer WITHOUT Windows pre-installed (and licence fee paid). This sort of market manipulation/monopoly abuse is just not on and I will not be a party to it (MS provides lower cost licences to these OEMs on the proviso that they do not offer for sale any PC with an alternative OS).

You know you can return the license for refund at least in Europe. I would be very interested to hear of cases and step by step instructions on how to do it in North America.

 


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