Windows users - keep an eye on updates for Microsoft installed spam

[rdl]

http://www.computerworld.com/article/2906810/microsoft-seeds-windows-7-81-pcs-with-windows-10-upgrade-nag-notices.html

I caught that one last week, and I just got todays update. There's a non-security update that says it "enables you to upgrade from Windows 7 to a later version of Windows". Yeah, like you really need a windows update to do that.

[Red Squirrel]

Lmao Microsoft sure is desperate to try to get the win8 market share up eh.

[rdl]

I'm guessing today's update has something to do with enabling upgrading to Windows 10 by way of Windows Update instead of installing from a DVD or flash drive. I'm just always suspicious of Microsoft. Unlike Windows 7, I will be waiting a while before even considering Windows 10. Too much fud at the moment.

[Falcon69]

One of these updates will include some sort of a microsoft only virus that will disable all microsoft operating systems below windows 10, forcing everyone on the planet to go out immediately and purchase Windows 10.  I could see it happening. 

[sacherjj]

One of the reasons for this is Microsoft is offering Windows 10 upgrade for free for the first year for Win 7 and Win 8 users.

[Towger]

How does Microsoft plan to fix all the machines they FUBAR with the Win10 update?  Great fun ahead....

[Red Squirrel]

Kind of reminds me of when they had that "genuine advantage" update for XP.  That broke a lot of installations including legit ones.

[smjcuk]

Oh great. That's going to be fun. We have 90 windows 8.1 machines so will have to block that update.

Excuse the rant...

I really don't want the new Microsoft crap. Its all about turning their platform to a store model and shafting everyone for lock in via subscription models and at that point the end users lose (us). To add some perspective, my day job is software architecture on their platform and literally everyone is jumping ship at the moment. No one here is renewing any certs and we're moving away from them. There is a vocal minority[1] that is all over them which appears to consume certain online communities but people have had enough now. Also I don't think that people realise what they're doing to the enterprise customers in the background. Someone is paying for the cock up that was win8: us. Our SQL licensing costs quadrupled to £180,000 (!) to upgrade from SQL2008 to 2014 due to licensing model changes.

That was enough to push us over the edge and FreeBSD/postgres is being rolled out.

If you milk your cows too hard...

[1] some suspect shills after MS got caught red handed doing this with their Xbox community.

[rdl]

Yeah, I think offering Windows 10 for free is primarily a diversionary tactic and when it's all said and done will likely turn out to have been just another a con job. Microsoft really wants to turn Windows into a locked down, service-centric, subscription based eco-system. To do that they have to get everyone using Windows 10. I hope they shoot themselves in the foot. Again.

[Fred27]

So they're planning to tell you you can get Windows 10 for free, you don't know exactly how they're going to do it but you're whining about it anyway in advance? If Apple did exactly this you'd be going on about how great they were.

[TheWelly888]

Thanks for this info! Pity most electronics software uses Windows. 

[smjcuk]

So they're planning to tell you you can get Windows 10 for free, you don't know exactly how they're going to do it but you're whining about it anyway in advance? If Apple did exactly this you'd be going on about how great they were.

Actually no. Apple fanfares to everyone about how their new software was carved from Jesus' sandals and how much a new paradigm it all is and its prettier than a pretty thing from planet sickening, then proceed to screw up the updates shafting your devices for 6 months, never acknowledge it for a second and tell you that you're just holding it wrong and that you should be worshipping Jonny Ive's farts for the design churned out by armies of underpaid slaves.

Only reddit and the verve have worship cultures.

I'm not sure why people get the whole us vs them thing. They're all as bad as each other. In fact its a game of chess finding out the least crap platform every few years.

I've actually given up now and avoid anything platform specific like the plague.

[timb]

So they're planning to tell you you can get Windows 10 for free, you don't know exactly how they're going to do it but you're whining about it anyway in advance? If Apple did exactly this you'd be going on about how great they were.

If Apple installed a security update via Software Update that made a nagware pop up appear trying to get you to update to the latest release, the OS X community would be up in arms about it, yes.

As it stands, when a new major version of OS X comes out, the App Store will make a notification appear *once* letting you know.

If Windows Update itself simply told you "Windows 10 is free for existing Windows customers, click here to upgrade." I don't think there would be an issue. It's the fact it installs a separate update to do this outside of WU, without telling you what it does, that has people shitting masonry.


Sent from my Tablet

[timb]

So they're planning to tell you you can get Windows 10 for free, you don't know exactly how they're going to do it but you're whining about it anyway in advance? If Apple did exactly this you'd be going on about how great they were.

Actually no. Apple fanfares to everyone about how their new software was carved from Jesus' sandals and how much a new paradigm it all is and its prettier than a pretty thing from planet sickening, then proceed to screw up the updates shafting your devices for 6 months, never acknowledge it for a second and tell you that you're just holding it wrong and that you should be worshipping Jonny Ive's farts for the design churned out by armies of underpaid slaves.

Only reddit and the verve have worship cultures.

I'm not sure why people get the whole us vs them thing. They're all as bad as each other. In fact its a game of chess finding out the least crap platform every few years.

I've actually given up now and avoid anything platform specific like the plague.

Have you actually smelt Ive's farts though? It's like the breath of a million cute puppies while simultaneously getting you higher than the purest nitrous oxide.


Sent from my Tablet

[smjcuk]

If Windows Update itself simply told you "Windows 10 is free for existing Windows customers, click here to upgrade." I don't think there would be an issue. It's the fact it installs a separate update to do this outside of WU, without telling you what it does, that has people shitting masonry.

The method is fine but I think we're shitting masonry (a term I rather like - thank you)  because...

Every idiot out there is going to click it like they click every virus installer UAC prompt, click every yes please and assume every banner advert is going to give them something free. Then after 3 hours of their economy ADSL data plan being used up until it dumps to 56k modem speeds, bam, oh my copy of excel 95 that they've been holding on to since 1995 has exploded violently and they can't get to their football score spreadsheet. Next think you know, my phone starts ringing because everyone in my family knows "I'm in IT", even if I just cleaned the IT department's toilets, a role I wish I did, inviting themselves over to waste my time fixing their rancid economy Dell laptop which turns off if you wiggle the power connector, the battery is flat, it smells of nicotine, the CR2032 is flat too meaning you have to set the time every time you turn it on or windows won't do anything,they keys don't go down due to the amount of biscuit crumbs in it and is full of animal porn, spyware and variants of Candy Crush Saga.

And they expect my wife to cook for them. I will boil them up some excrement and serve that and see how they feel.

 

[timb]

If Windows Update itself simply told you "Windows 10 is free for existing Windows customers, click here to upgrade." I don't think there would be an issue. It's the fact it installs a separate update to do this outside of WU, without telling you what it does, that has people shitting masonry.

The method is fine but I think we're shitting masonry (a term I rather like - thank you)  because...

Every idiot out there is going to click it like they click every virus installer UAC prompt, click every yes please and assume every banner advert is going to give them something free. Then after 3 hours of their economy ADSL data plan being used up until it dumps to 56k modem speeds, bam, oh my copy of excel 95 that they've been holding on to since 1995 has exploded violently and they can't get to their football score spreadsheet. Next think you know, my phone starts ringing because everyone in my family knows "I'm in IT", even if I just cleaned the IT department's toilets, a role I wish I did, inviting themselves over to waste my time fixing their rancid economy Dell laptop which turns off if you wiggle the power connector, the battery is flat, it smells of nicotine, the CR2032 is flat too meaning you have to set the time every time you turn it on or windows won't do anything,they keys don't go down due to the amount of biscuit crumbs in it and is full of animal porn, spyware and variants of Candy Crush Saga.

And they expect my wife to cook for them. I will boil them up some excrement and serve that and see how they feel.

 

That's a good point. That used to be my life, as well, until I drilled it into everyone's heads that I would be happy to fix their computers, assuming the problem wasn't caused by them. If they did something stupid and installed a bunch of adware, I'd charge them half my normal hourly rate to fix it. (Everyone gets one freebie a year.)

You'd be surprised how quickly the calls stopped coming after that!

I also ended up making a PDF with illustrated pictures showing how to spot those web ads that purport to be Windows dialog boxes and the importance of reading what an installer was actually installing. Between that an encouraging them to email me before downloading something suspicious; and providing a bunch of the guys (and several of the girls) with safe free porn sites to visit, it helped a lot.

The other half I just switched to Macs. XD


Sent from my Tablet

[Sigmoid]

Before "shitting bricks", does anyone KNOW what this update actually DOES, or is it just wild conjecture?!

[amyk]

XP works for me and isn't a locked-down anti-user OS.

[Rufus]

Before "shitting bricks", does anyone KNOW what this update actually DOES, or is it just wild conjecture?!

It just confirms how desperate Microsoft is. Plenty of people (including me) wouldn't 'upgrade' to Windows 8 even if it were free. Microsoft feeling they need to make Windows 10 free doesn't give me much confidence that I will want to 'upgrade' to that either.

Some not very computer literate friends recently had an old PC running XP die. After looking at replacements supplied with Win 8 they bought a Mac.

[suicidaleggroll]

Before "shitting bricks", does anyone KNOW what this update actually DOES, or is it just wild conjecture?!

Of course we do.  It's described in the link in the first post.  Want to see the contents of that .xml file?  That update installed itself on my VM and I didn't notice.

Code: [Select]

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-16"?>
<CONFIG>
  <!--inbox config-->
  <VERSION>1</VERSION>
  <AuTargetSetting>2</AuTargetSetting>
  <CompatExpiryTime>45</CompatExpiryTime>
  <GlobalAdTimeOut>30</GlobalAdTimeOut>
  <OnlineAdUrl>https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=526874&amp;</OnlineAdUrl>
  <!--Relative path to download folder for main html file-->
  <OfflineAppUrl>index.html</OfflineAppUrl>
  <MinAppraiserUpgradeExperience>Green</MinAppraiserUpgradeExperience>
  <!--pre-req temp disabled-->
  <AppraiserPrereq>true</AppraiserPrereq>
  <DownloadPrereq>true</DownloadPrereq>
  <EnableDomainJoined>false</EnableDomainJoined>
  <EnableEnterpriseSku>false</EnableEnterpriseSku>
  <Telemetry BaseURL="http://g.bing.com/GWX/">
    <linkid>GWX</linkid>
    <xmlLocation>TelemetryStore.xml</xmlLocation>
    <honorCeip>true</honorCeip>
  </Telemetry>
  <NonCeipSetting>GwxMarkersOnly</NonCeipSetting>
  <AdWindowSizes>
    <S>
      <x>350</x>
      <y>160</y>
    </S>
    <M>
      <x>320</x>
      <y>210</y>
    </M>
    <L>
      <x>480</x>
      <y>320</y>
    </L>
  </AdWindowSizes>
  <AppWindowSize>
    <x>800</x>
    <y>492</y>
  </AppWindowSize>
  <Filters>
    <Filter>
      <Phase>None</Phase>
      <triggers>
      </triggers>
    </Filter>
  </Filters>
  <Phases>
    <Phase name="None">
      <AntUXProcess>false</AntUXProcess>
      <TrayIcon>false</TrayIcon>
      <Advertisement>false</Advertisement>
      <ReservationPage>false</ReservationPage>
      <Upgrading>false</Upgrading>
      <DownloadInProgress>false</DownloadInProgress>
      <DownloadComplete>false</DownloadComplete>
      <ReadyForSetup>false</ReadyForSetup>
      <SetupInProgress>false</SetupInProgress>
      <SetupComplete>false</SetupComplete>
    </Phase>
    <Phase name="AnticipationUX">
      <AntUXProcess>true</AntUXProcess>
      <TrayIcon>true</TrayIcon>
      <Advertisement>true</Advertisement>
      <ReservationPage>false</ReservationPage>
      <Upgrading>false</Upgrading>
      <DownloadInProgress>false</DownloadInProgress>
      <DownloadComplete>false</DownloadComplete>
      <ReadyForSetup>false</ReadyForSetup>
      <SetupInProgress>false</SetupInProgress>
      <SetupComplete>false</SetupComplete>
    </Phase>
    <Phase name="Reservation">
      <AntUXProcess>true</AntUXProcess>
      <TrayIcon>true</TrayIcon>
      <Advertisement>true</Advertisement>
      <ReservationPage>true</ReservationPage>
      <Upgrading>false</Upgrading>
      <DownloadInProgress>false</DownloadInProgress>
      <DownloadComplete>false</DownloadComplete>
      <ReadyForSetup>false</ReadyForSetup>
      <SetupInProgress>false</SetupInProgress>
      <SetupComplete>false</SetupComplete>
    </Phase>
    <Phase name="Reserved">
      <AntUXProcess>true</AntUXProcess>
      <TrayIcon>true</TrayIcon>
      <Advertisement>true</Advertisement>
      <ReservationPage>false</ReservationPage>
      <Upgrading>false</Upgrading>
      <DownloadInProgress>false</DownloadInProgress>
      <DownloadComplete>false</DownloadComplete>
      <ReadyForSetup>false</ReadyForSetup>
      <SetupInProgress>false</SetupInProgress>
      <SetupComplete>false</SetupComplete>
    </Phase>
    <Phase name="RTM">
      <AntUXProcess>true</AntUXProcess>
      <TrayIcon>true</TrayIcon>
      <Advertisement>true</Advertisement>
      <ReservationPage>false</ReservationPage>
      <Upgrading>false</Upgrading>
      <DownloadInProgress>false</DownloadInProgress>
      <DownloadComplete>false</DownloadComplete>
      <ReadyForSetup>false</ReadyForSetup>
      <SetupInProgress>false</SetupInProgress>
      <SetupComplete>false</SetupComplete>
    </Phase>
    <Phase name="GA">
      <AntUXProcess>true</AntUXProcess>
      <TrayIcon>true</TrayIcon>
      <Advertisement>false</Advertisement>
      <ReservationPage>false</ReservationPage>
      <Upgrading>true</Upgrading>
      <DownloadInProgress>false</DownloadInProgress>
      <DownloadComplete>false</DownloadComplete>
      <ReadyForSetup>false</ReadyForSetup>
      <SetupInProgress>false</SetupInProgress>
      <SetupComplete>false</SetupComplete>
    </Phase>
    <Phase name="UpgradeDetected">
      <AntUXProcess>true</AntUXProcess>
      <TrayIcon>true</TrayIcon>
      <Advertisement>false</Advertisement>
      <ReservationPage>false</ReservationPage>
      <Upgrading>true</Upgrading>
      <DownloadInProgress>false</DownloadInProgress>
      <DownloadComplete>false</DownloadComplete>
      <ReadyForSetup>false</ReadyForSetup>
      <SetupInProgress>false</SetupInProgress>
      <SetupComplete>false</SetupComplete>
    </Phase>
    <Phase name="UpgradeDownloadInProgress">
      <AntUXProcess>true</AntUXProcess>
      <TrayIcon>true</TrayIcon>
      <Advertisement>false</Advertisement>
      <ReservationPage>false</ReservationPage>
      <Upgrading>true</Upgrading>
      <DownloadInProgress>true</DownloadInProgress>
      <DownloadComplete>false</DownloadComplete>
      <ReadyForSetup>false</ReadyForSetup>
      <SetupInProgress>false</SetupInProgress>
      <SetupComplete>false</SetupComplete>
    </Phase>
    <Phase name="UpgradeDownloaded">
      <AntUXProcess>true</AntUXProcess>
      <TrayIcon>true</TrayIcon>
      <Advertisement>false</Advertisement>
      <ReservationPage>false</ReservationPage>
      <Upgrading>true</Upgrading>
      <DownloadInProgress>false</DownloadInProgress>
      <DownloadComplete>true</DownloadComplete>
      <ReadyForSetup>false</ReadyForSetup>
      <SetupInProgress>false</SetupInProgress>
      <SetupComplete>false</SetupComplete>
    </Phase>
    <Phase name="UpgradeReadyToInstall">
      <AntUXProcess>true</AntUXProcess>
      <TrayIcon>true</TrayIcon>
      <Advertisement>false</Advertisement>
      <ReservationPage>false</ReservationPage>
      <Upgrading>true</Upgrading>
      <DownloadInProgress>false</DownloadInProgress>
      <DownloadComplete>false</DownloadComplete>
      <ReadyForSetup>true</ReadyForSetup>
      <SetupInProgress>false</SetupInProgress>
      <SetupComplete>false</SetupComplete>
    </Phase>
    <Phase name="UpgradeReadySetupInProgress">
      <AntUXProcess>true</AntUXProcess>
      <TrayIcon>true</TrayIcon>
      <Advertisement>false</Advertisement>
      <ReservationPage>false</ReservationPage>
      <Upgrading>true</Upgrading>
      <DownloadInProgress>false</DownloadInProgress>
      <DownloadComplete>false</DownloadComplete>
      <ReadyForSetup>false</ReadyForSetup>
      <SetupInProgress>true</SetupInProgress>
      <SetupComplete>false</SetupComplete>
    </Phase>
    <Phase name="UpgradeSetupCompatBlock">
      <AntUXProcess>true</AntUXProcess>
      <TrayIcon>true</TrayIcon>
      <Advertisement>false</Advertisement>
      <ReservationPage>false</ReservationPage>
      <Upgrading>true</Upgrading>
      <DownloadInProgress>false</DownloadInProgress>
      <DownloadComplete>false</DownloadComplete>
      <ReadyForSetup>false</ReadyForSetup>
      <SetupInProgress>false</SetupInProgress>
      <SetupComplete>false</SetupComplete>
    </Phase>
    <Phase name="UpgradeSetupRolledBack">
      <AntUXProcess>true</AntUXProcess>
      <TrayIcon>true</TrayIcon>
      <Advertisement>false</Advertisement>
      <ReservationPage>false</ReservationPage>
      <Upgrading>true</Upgrading>
      <DownloadInProgress>false</DownloadInProgress>
      <DownloadComplete>false</DownloadComplete>
      <ReadyForSetup>false</ReadyForSetup>
      <SetupInProgress>false</SetupInProgress>
      <SetupComplete>false</SetupComplete>
    </Phase>
    <Phase name="UPgradeSetupFailed">
      <AntUXProcess>true</AntUXProcess>
      <TrayIcon>true</TrayIcon>
      <Advertisement>false</Advertisement>
      <ReservationPage>false</ReservationPage>
      <Upgrading>true</Upgrading>
      <DownloadInProgress>false</DownloadInProgress>
      <DownloadComplete>false</DownloadComplete>
      <ReadyForSetup>false</ReadyForSetup>
      <SetupInProgress>false</SetupInProgress>
      <SetupComplete>false</SetupComplete>
    </Phase>
    <Phase name="UpgradeSetupComplete">
      <AntUXProcess>true</AntUXProcess>
      <TrayIcon>true</TrayIcon>
      <Advertisement>false</Advertisement>
      <ReservationPage>false</ReservationPage>
      <Upgrading>true</Upgrading>
      <DownloadInProgress>false</DownloadInProgress>
      <DownloadComplete>false</DownloadComplete>
      <ReadyForSetup>false</ReadyForSetup>
      <SetupInProgress>false</SetupInProgress>
      <SetupComplete>true</SetupComplete>
    </Phase>
 </Phases>
 <Triggers>
 </Triggers>
</CONFIG>
Those various phases, tray icon, advertisement, etc. are what the link in the OP is referring to.

There's a new one too, KB2952664

This update helps Microsoft make improvements to the current operating system in order to ease the upgrade experience to the latest version of Windows.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2952664

[corrado33]

Let me preface this with a small bit of history. I've had apple computers since the screens only had one shade, green. With that said, I actually don't have a mac at home now and I'm typing this on windows 7.

I've always had issues with how Microsoft released their operating systems. If they WANT people to upgrade (and trust me, they WANT people to upgrade), then don't freaking charge multiple hundreds of dollars for your operating system. I mean jesus, the majority of the PCs on the planet use freaking windows. Do you really need to charge $300 for it? (XP used to be close to $300 IIRC) I mean jeeze, even charging $100 for it seems a bit excessive.

Apple, on the other hand, have been offering their OSs for $30, $40, free? Even in college, when 10.6 came out... it was a no brainier for me to buy it for $30.  I didn't have a job in college, I literally had no money, yet I still upgraded.

Look, Apple does shitty things too. I "upgraded" to iOS 7 on my iPhone 4. Yeah, I was pissed. I was SO PISSED that I switched to android for a few months. I realized that the android OS sucks more than the "upgraded" iOS, so I switched back. Don't get me wrong, I'm an advanced user that could actually take advantage of the features on android BUT, in the end, I never used it. Every company does shitty things. I just think apple does less shitty things. (Plus every $300 crap box that people love to buy is just loaded with windows (an OS it can barely run), which puts a bad taste in my mouth.)

Anyway, unfortunately windows is a necessity in many jobs today. Many scientific programs only run on windows. Instrument companies don't have the money to develop their programs for mac and pc (and definitely not linux.) Hell, we have computers in my lab that I had to UPGRADE to XP. (Within the last year.) However, that's changing, and I think that is for the better. I'd love to see scientific programs written for linux honestly. (Please don't write them for mac. I don't want a $1000 computer a few feet away from my 800*C apparatus. Apple will (hopefully) never try to enter the "economic" computer market, therefore they'll never be viable for things like lab computers.)

[HackedFridgeMagnet]

Ive got Win 8.1. I'm actually looking forward to getting rid of the metro stuff.

[smjcuk]

Ive got Win 8.1. I'm actually looking forward to getting rid of the metro stuff.

Windows 10 just puts metro stuff inside floating windows. It's still there and it's not going away.

[corrado33]

I'm looking forward to Windows 10. They need to hurry up and release it, I'm getting impatient  The new multi-desktop stuff looks good. Better scaling and multi-monitor support.

Wow, microsoft finally caught up to what Linux has done for many years and Apple has done for (less) years. I'd pat them on the back if I didn't know it'll probably work worse than the other two offerings above.

[rdl]

How happy will you be once you start paying the annual subscription fees for all the options needed to make your "free" Windows OS actually usable? How happy will you be having to buy all your software from the Windows Store?

[Sbampato12]

How happy will you be once you start paying the annual subscription fees for all the options needed to make your "free" Windows OS actually usable? How happy will you be having to buy all your software from the Windows Store?

I really hate this new way. It is OK to smartphones with android, but for computers, NO.
We need the market of OS (and others softwares too) to slow down a little bit, I don't want to waste my time looking for all the updates, and to change the OS (and the way I do my stuff on this new OS) every year, or two. This time I could spend doing profitable things with my box.

After the XP they finnaly get the most users going to 7. When our softwares are 7 friendly, and we learned to use they come with 8 and 8.1 that is completely different. It is more fast? it does provide us with more precision variables types? NO. And to now they come with this again?

Show us real things, like easier ways to do things, faster OS, some new thing that make some time or effort saving. Not new way to show windows on your screen. Keep in mind that there is people that work with computers, and some of them doesn't need only word and excel... Not always we have access to internet on field (for one reason or another), but all of we need rocksolid OS, fast, and fast boot time if possible.

[rsjsouza]

I really hate this new way. It is OK to smartphones with android, but for computers, NO.

+1. Apps software for small gadgets is much simpler than hosted productivity and application software, and the portable devices tend to have a much smaller lifespan.

As a manufacturer of professional software, maintaining this number of OS variants in the same base platform is an absolute nightmare. I wonder how many software houses will be driven away to other OSes (MS does not have the same share as before) or simply be put out of business if this trend continues on. 

[nctnico]

Show us real things, like easier ways to do things, faster OS, some new thing that make some time or effort saving. Not new way to show windows on your screen. Keep in mind that there is people that work with computers, and some of them doesn't need only word and excel... Not always we have access to internet on field (for one reason or another), but all of we need rocksolid OS, fast, and fast boot time if possible.

Now you summed up all the good things from Windows2000. I moved to using Linux as a primary OS because Win7 sucks so bad at many simple things. Another problem with modern Microsoft software is that it is almost impossible to get rid of font smoothing which is bad for people with astigmatism (only 1/3 of the world population has this so no biggy).

[Jeroen3]

Basic advanced user rules:
Rule #1: Disable automatic updates. The setup asks you to.
Rule #2: Disable update on shutdown through policy settings.
Rule #3: Do not install "recommended" or optional updates. Unless you're 100% positive KB035368 will fix some problem you're having.
Rule #4: Do not install graphics card drivers pushed through wu.

[timb]

I don't mind platform App Store ecosystems at all and think they can work very well for the majority of users. If people have a single place to go they can download software--and updates--with the guarantee it won't harm there system, that's a good thing. It certainly beats downloading a random executable file from Joe Blow's website and figuring out how to install it.

It's good for the small software companies as well because it gives them exposure they wouldn't have otherwise had.

Apple has had the Mac App Store out for about 4 years now (since Snow Leopard at least) and it's doing very well. It's not perfect, mind you, some of the sandboxing restrictions need to be changed, but it's getting there.

The good news is that no OS, Windows or OS X will be pulling the ability to allow you to install software outside of the App Store.

So you can still install whatever you want, while normal LUSERs have a nice sandbox to play in.


Sent from my Smartphone

[rsjsouza]

Now you summed up all the good things from Windows2000.

nctnico, you are right about almost everything: Windows 2000 was a quantum leap in functionality and stability when compared to its previous incarnations, but the boot time was absolutely terrible - one of the things that was most impressive when XP came out...

[nctnico]

In my mind Win2k doesn't boot faster or slower than WinXP. Anyway, any Windows boots and shuts down slower the longer it is in use.

[Marco]

I really don't want the new Microsoft crap. Its all about turning their platform to a store model and shafting everyone for lock in via subscription models and at that point the end users lose (us).

If it was optional I wouldn't really care ... if you could sideload self signed metro apps I'd have no problem with metro other than the total lack of information density and poor integration with the desktop. Windows should have had a curated store with capability based security model a long time ago, sure not every app will fit ... but that's not an issue as long as you can go outside of the store (which you effectively can't with metro, with only some exceptions for corporations and developers).

Microsoft tries to ape Apple, but they then just take that one little extra step too far (also too often they don't play to their strengths and just create useless internal competition, the ARM based tablets were a colossal mistake ... as was the xbox).

[smjcuk]

I really don't want the new Microsoft crap. Its all about turning their platform to a store model and shafting everyone for lock in via subscription models and at that point the end users lose (us).

If it was optional I wouldn't really care ... if you could sideload self signed metro apps I'd have no problem with metro other than the total lack of information density and poor integration with the desktop. Windows should have had a curated store with capability based security model a long time ago, sure not every app will fit ... but that's not an issue as long as you can go outside of the store (which you effectively can't with metro, with only some exceptions for corporations and developers).

Microsoft tries to ape Apple, but they then just take that one little extra step too far (also too often they don't play to their strengths and just create useless internal competition, the ARM based tablets were a colossal mistake ... as was the xbox).

Exactly this. We can sideload as we're a VLK with enterprise edition but we still have to jump through licensing hoops and audits to get anything on the Metro side of things. Eventually we just yanked the one bit of software we used.

Curation is a problem more than you realise. 90% of the windows app store is template apps thrown out en-masse by people paid per app to write them by Microsoft just to fill up the store. 5% is malware and the remaining 5% is possibly usable of which 3% are actually windows desktop apps just linked through the store.

Nothing but bad news. Total failure of a platform and they're still flogging it

[HackedFridgeMagnet]

Total failure of a platform and they're still flogging it

It can't be considered a total failure if so many people are using it an it has made M$ so much money.
You really should qualify statements like that.

So what are the criteria for a successful platform? and what is it, assuming there is one that matches these criteria.

[smjcuk]

Total failure of a platform and they're still flogging it

It can't be considered a total failure if so many people are using it an it has made M$ so much money.
You really should qualify statements like that.

So what are the criteria for a successful platform? and what is it, assuming there is one that matches these criteria.

Windows is two platforms now, crudely layered one upon another.

Specifically the metro/modern/WinRT part of windows is a failure. And they're still harping on about it.

The remainder (win32/nt/com/dcom) is very successful.

A successful platform is ubiquitous with paying customers and has a sustainable sales model. Considering that the win32 API dates back to as early as 1985, then its right there with POSIX/Unix API as well.

Anything else, not so much. An objective C app for your iPad don't compile after a couple of years at average (language/GC changes). Your android app won't run on a device more than 3 years old etc etc. Metro is the same.

Somthing I wrote for NT4 in 1996 quite happily tuns on win8.1 today thanks to win32.

[nuno]

They kind of screwed things up with win8 for more advanced users (the portable manufacturers are doing the same with shitty keyboard layouts). I had to buy a new portable and it came win8, my first contact with the beast. I think I would pay for a downgrade to win7.

[timb]

Wow, there's no way to side load a metro app?! I... What?!

I just assumed it would be like OS X, where you can install Apps from the store or normal downloads.

If the downloaded app isn't from a registered developer, you get a warning (which can be disabled) the first time you run it.

That is such a simple, common sense model that I just can't imagine Microsoft going past it and not allowing side loading... But this is Microsoft I suppose.

Also, W2K did have horrendous  boot times. On the order of minutes in some cases. XP was a huge step forward and brought it back to the 15-30 second mark.

The reason is that 2000 loads all services and drivers before loading the login or desktop. XP brings you directly in while starting services in the background.

This was a pretty big deal at the time and something Microsoft heavily pushed in the press.

(I was in IT at the time and went to the XP launch event.)

I have mixed feelings about Windows 8.1. I've got a Lenovo X201T that can convert from Laptop to Tablet mode. I really want to Like Metro, but something about it rubs me wrong.

It's nice in tablet mode, but I rarely use the unit like that, except for doing PCB layout (using an external number pad for shortcuts and the digitizer pen to lay down traces).


Sent from my Smartphone

[smjcuk]

X201 here as well. Not a tablet one though. Metro is completely useless to me. Thank goodness Win+X actually does something useful.

[Mechanical Menace]

They kind of screwed things up with win8 for more advanced users (the portable manufacturers are doing the same with shitty keyboard layouts). I had to buy a new portable and it came win8, my first contact with the beast. I think I would pay for a downgrade to win7.

I have a free MSDN license so that downgrade was automatic, I did keep 8.1 around for a while waiting for the never to appear start menu update though. Such a shame too because it seemed to me like the base system had been cleaned up a lot. It at least felt less sluggish and seemed to use less resources just idling on the desktop.

I'm generally a *nix fanboy, even if I do understand other options suit different peoples requirements better, but their inability to realise that a lot of users don't just need the ability to run desktop programs but actually NEED a decent desktop shell to get stuff done was a real shame.

[nctnico]

Also, W2K did have horrendous  boot times. On the order of minutes in some cases. XP was a huge step forward and brought it back to the 15-30 second mark.

The reason is that 2000 loads all services and drivers before loading the login or desktop. XP brings you directly in while starting services in the background.

In practise it means a WinXP system doesn't really work for the next few minutes after the login screen. It's actually slower from power-on to the 'useable state'.

[Marco]

Windows is two platforms now, crudely layered one upon another.

It seems the underlying plumbing is actually generalized, here's someone who was able to create win32 applications inside sandboxing system used for Metro.

The separation is entirely political ... they want to keep the innovations for the metro walled garden and in doing so are slowly killing Windows (again just like the xbox, where AMD basically had to force them into taking DirectX seriously again).

[smjcuk]

Yeah it's all a rats nest. WinRT is a cleanish managed and unmanaged C++11 wrapper around COM and Win32 really (hence stupid broken shitty path limits even though the filesystem supports 32768 Unicode chars). They want people to link and program to WinRT so they can change the underlying abstraction when we've all moved to modern apps. So it'll be NT kernel (which is pretty nice really), ReFS and WinRT.

Not that I give a crap as after 25 years of this, we're still churning out software on win32 with a 10 year life cycle. Mortgage done in 5 years so I'll lock myself in my house with boxes of linear ICs and discretes and be done with the world

[timb]

Hehe, I remember using 98Lite to rip all the Internet Explorer stuff out of Win98.2 and replace the shell with the one from Win95. I could boot in 5 seconds on a PII400 and the whole system was blazing fast.

Now I use nLite to slipstream all the final XP updates into an XP SP3 ISO, along with removing pretty much all of the cruft and addons. Ultra compact install that runs really fast. I use it for VMWare to run Diptrace and instrument software.


Sent from my Tablet