Windows users - keep an eye on updates for Microsoft installed spam

[Sbampato12]

How happy will you be once you start paying the annual subscription fees for all the options needed to make your "free" Windows OS actually usable? How happy will you be having to buy all your software from the Windows Store?

I really hate this new way. It is OK to smartphones with android, but for computers, NO.
We need the market of OS (and others softwares too) to slow down a little bit, I don't want to waste my time looking for all the updates, and to change the OS (and the way I do my stuff on this new OS) every year, or two. This time I could spend doing profitable things with my box.

After the XP they finnaly get the most users going to 7. When our softwares are 7 friendly, and we learned to use they come with 8 and 8.1 that is completely different. It is more fast? it does provide us with more precision variables types? NO. And to now they come with this again?

Show us real things, like easier ways to do things, faster OS, some new thing that make some time or effort saving. Not new way to show windows on your screen. Keep in mind that there is people that work with computers, and some of them doesn't need only word and excel... Not always we have access to internet on field (for one reason or another), but all of we need rocksolid OS, fast, and fast boot time if possible.

[rsjsouza]

I really hate this new way. It is OK to smartphones with android, but for computers, NO.

+1. Apps software for small gadgets is much simpler than hosted productivity and application software, and the portable devices tend to have a much smaller lifespan.

As a manufacturer of professional software, maintaining this number of OS variants in the same base platform is an absolute nightmare. I wonder how many software houses will be driven away to other OSes (MS does not have the same share as before) or simply be put out of business if this trend continues on. 

[nctnico]

Show us real things, like easier ways to do things, faster OS, some new thing that make some time or effort saving. Not new way to show windows on your screen. Keep in mind that there is people that work with computers, and some of them doesn't need only word and excel... Not always we have access to internet on field (for one reason or another), but all of we need rocksolid OS, fast, and fast boot time if possible.

Now you summed up all the good things from Windows2000. I moved to using Linux as a primary OS because Win7 sucks so bad at many simple things. Another problem with modern Microsoft software is that it is almost impossible to get rid of font smoothing which is bad for people with astigmatism (only 1/3 of the world population has this so no biggy).

[Jeroen3]

Basic advanced user rules:
Rule #1: Disable automatic updates. The setup asks you to.
Rule #2: Disable update on shutdown through policy settings.
Rule #3: Do not install "recommended" or optional updates. Unless you're 100% positive KB035368 will fix some problem you're having.
Rule #4: Do not install graphics card drivers pushed through wu.

[timb]

I don't mind platform App Store ecosystems at all and think they can work very well for the majority of users. If people have a single place to go they can download software--and updates--with the guarantee it won't harm there system, that's a good thing. It certainly beats downloading a random executable file from Joe Blow's website and figuring out how to install it.

It's good for the small software companies as well because it gives them exposure they wouldn't have otherwise had.

Apple has had the Mac App Store out for about 4 years now (since Snow Leopard at least) and it's doing very well. It's not perfect, mind you, some of the sandboxing restrictions need to be changed, but it's getting there.

The good news is that no OS, Windows or OS X will be pulling the ability to allow you to install software outside of the App Store.

So you can still install whatever you want, while normal LUSERs have a nice sandbox to play in.


Sent from my Smartphone

[rsjsouza]

Now you summed up all the good things from Windows2000.

nctnico, you are right about almost everything: Windows 2000 was a quantum leap in functionality and stability when compared to its previous incarnations, but the boot time was absolutely terrible - one of the things that was most impressive when XP came out...

[nctnico]

In my mind Win2k doesn't boot faster or slower than WinXP. Anyway, any Windows boots and shuts down slower the longer it is in use.

[Marco]

I really don't want the new Microsoft crap. Its all about turning their platform to a store model and shafting everyone for lock in via subscription models and at that point the end users lose (us).

If it was optional I wouldn't really care ... if you could sideload self signed metro apps I'd have no problem with metro other than the total lack of information density and poor integration with the desktop. Windows should have had a curated store with capability based security model a long time ago, sure not every app will fit ... but that's not an issue as long as you can go outside of the store (which you effectively can't with metro, with only some exceptions for corporations and developers).

Microsoft tries to ape Apple, but they then just take that one little extra step too far (also too often they don't play to their strengths and just create useless internal competition, the ARM based tablets were a colossal mistake ... as was the xbox).

[smjcuk]

I really don't want the new Microsoft crap. Its all about turning their platform to a store model and shafting everyone for lock in via subscription models and at that point the end users lose (us).

If it was optional I wouldn't really care ... if you could sideload self signed metro apps I'd have no problem with metro other than the total lack of information density and poor integration with the desktop. Windows should have had a curated store with capability based security model a long time ago, sure not every app will fit ... but that's not an issue as long as you can go outside of the store (which you effectively can't with metro, with only some exceptions for corporations and developers).

Microsoft tries to ape Apple, but they then just take that one little extra step too far (also too often they don't play to their strengths and just create useless internal competition, the ARM based tablets were a colossal mistake ... as was the xbox).

Exactly this. We can sideload as we're a VLK with enterprise edition but we still have to jump through licensing hoops and audits to get anything on the Metro side of things. Eventually we just yanked the one bit of software we used.

Curation is a problem more than you realise. 90% of the windows app store is template apps thrown out en-masse by people paid per app to write them by Microsoft just to fill up the store. 5% is malware and the remaining 5% is possibly usable of which 3% are actually windows desktop apps just linked through the store.

Nothing but bad news. Total failure of a platform and they're still flogging it

[HackedFridgeMagnet]

Total failure of a platform and they're still flogging it

It can't be considered a total failure if so many people are using it an it has made M$ so much money.
You really should qualify statements like that.

So what are the criteria for a successful platform? and what is it, assuming there is one that matches these criteria.

[smjcuk]

Total failure of a platform and they're still flogging it

It can't be considered a total failure if so many people are using it an it has made M$ so much money.
You really should qualify statements like that.

So what are the criteria for a successful platform? and what is it, assuming there is one that matches these criteria.

Windows is two platforms now, crudely layered one upon another.

Specifically the metro/modern/WinRT part of windows is a failure. And they're still harping on about it.

The remainder (win32/nt/com/dcom) is very successful.

A successful platform is ubiquitous with paying customers and has a sustainable sales model. Considering that the win32 API dates back to as early as 1985, then its right there with POSIX/Unix API as well.

Anything else, not so much. An objective C app for your iPad don't compile after a couple of years at average (language/GC changes). Your android app won't run on a device more than 3 years old etc etc. Metro is the same.

Somthing I wrote for NT4 in 1996 quite happily tuns on win8.1 today thanks to win32.

[nuno]

They kind of screwed things up with win8 for more advanced users (the portable manufacturers are doing the same with shitty keyboard layouts). I had to buy a new portable and it came win8, my first contact with the beast. I think I would pay for a downgrade to win7.

[timb]

Wow, there's no way to side load a metro app?! I... What?!

I just assumed it would be like OS X, where you can install Apps from the store or normal downloads.

If the downloaded app isn't from a registered developer, you get a warning (which can be disabled) the first time you run it.

That is such a simple, common sense model that I just can't imagine Microsoft going past it and not allowing side loading... But this is Microsoft I suppose.

Also, W2K did have horrendous  boot times. On the order of minutes in some cases. XP was a huge step forward and brought it back to the 15-30 second mark.

The reason is that 2000 loads all services and drivers before loading the login or desktop. XP brings you directly in while starting services in the background.

This was a pretty big deal at the time and something Microsoft heavily pushed in the press.

(I was in IT at the time and went to the XP launch event.)

I have mixed feelings about Windows 8.1. I've got a Lenovo X201T that can convert from Laptop to Tablet mode. I really want to Like Metro, but something about it rubs me wrong.

It's nice in tablet mode, but I rarely use the unit like that, except for doing PCB layout (using an external number pad for shortcuts and the digitizer pen to lay down traces).


Sent from my Smartphone

[smjcuk]

X201 here as well. Not a tablet one though. Metro is completely useless to me. Thank goodness Win+X actually does something useful.

[Mechanical Menace]

They kind of screwed things up with win8 for more advanced users (the portable manufacturers are doing the same with shitty keyboard layouts). I had to buy a new portable and it came win8, my first contact with the beast. I think I would pay for a downgrade to win7.

I have a free MSDN license so that downgrade was automatic, I did keep 8.1 around for a while waiting for the never to appear start menu update though. Such a shame too because it seemed to me like the base system had been cleaned up a lot. It at least felt less sluggish and seemed to use less resources just idling on the desktop.

I'm generally a *nix fanboy, even if I do understand other options suit different peoples requirements better, but their inability to realise that a lot of users don't just need the ability to run desktop programs but actually NEED a decent desktop shell to get stuff done was a real shame.

[nctnico]

Also, W2K did have horrendous  boot times. On the order of minutes in some cases. XP was a huge step forward and brought it back to the 15-30 second mark.

The reason is that 2000 loads all services and drivers before loading the login or desktop. XP brings you directly in while starting services in the background.

In practise it means a WinXP system doesn't really work for the next few minutes after the login screen. It's actually slower from power-on to the 'useable state'.

[Marco]

Windows is two platforms now, crudely layered one upon another.

It seems the underlying plumbing is actually generalized, here's someone who was able to create win32 applications inside sandboxing system used for Metro.

The separation is entirely political ... they want to keep the innovations for the metro walled garden and in doing so are slowly killing Windows (again just like the xbox, where AMD basically had to force them into taking DirectX seriously again).

[smjcuk]

Yeah it's all a rats nest. WinRT is a cleanish managed and unmanaged C++11 wrapper around COM and Win32 really (hence stupid broken shitty path limits even though the filesystem supports 32768 Unicode chars). They want people to link and program to WinRT so they can change the underlying abstraction when we've all moved to modern apps. So it'll be NT kernel (which is pretty nice really), ReFS and WinRT.

Not that I give a crap as after 25 years of this, we're still churning out software on win32 with a 10 year life cycle. Mortgage done in 5 years so I'll lock myself in my house with boxes of linear ICs and discretes and be done with the world

[timb]

Hehe, I remember using 98Lite to rip all the Internet Explorer stuff out of Win98.2 and replace the shell with the one from Win95. I could boot in 5 seconds on a PII400 and the whole system was blazing fast.

Now I use nLite to slipstream all the final XP updates into an XP SP3 ISO, along with removing pretty much all of the cruft and addons. Ultra compact install that runs really fast. I use it for VMWare to run Diptrace and instrument software.


Sent from my Tablet