Author Topic: Wine Aficionado's  (Read 7736 times)

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n45048

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Wine Aficionado's
« on: February 27, 2015, 03:57:32 am »
I know Dave is a non-drinker but for the rest of us, I thought I'd just start a little thread on one of my favourite things in the world: Wine! I started collecting wine about 10 years ago and from the hundreds of bottles I've purchased over the years, some 25 remain in my cellar. Today, there was a new addition to the cellar which started off as a post-work-week wine to buying the few remaining bottles in Australia.

I went to my local Dan Murphy's (a large beverage retailer for those outside Australia) and spotted a bottle of 2002 Penfolds Reserve Bin Riesling (from Eden Valley in South Australia). The price was fairly reasonable at $36.99 but I never tried it before so I bought a bottle just to treat myself.

To say it was an amazing example of a Riesling would be an understatement. It was phenomenal! The 12+ years in the bottle has really done this wine wonders. It had that slight tingly feeling on the tongue almost as if it was lightly carbonated, something that reminds me of a good German Riesling. So I went back to the same store and bought the 2 remaining bottles.

Whilst there, I asked the store manager to check stock in other stores. Turns out there are none left in any Dan Murphy's store in Australia, nor will there ever be. A quick Google revealed a similar shortage.

If you can find yourself a bottle of this stuff, grab some while you can! This vintage is at its peak now but will probably cellar well for the next 10+ years.

Just another example of the superb wine Australia has to offer.

(EAN Barcode No.: 9310297643615)
« Last Edit: February 27, 2015, 04:09:44 am by Halon »
 

Offline Stonent

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Re: Wine Aficionado's
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2015, 04:52:12 am »
I enjoy wine, but am not a connoisseur.  I don't think I've ever met a wine that I didn't like.

Sure I'd love to be able to take a sip and say "Oh that's a Merlot, or that's a Pinot Noir" But I've not developed the ability to tell the difference in most of the reds.  I do seem to be able to tell a difference between Chardonnay and Pinot Grigio though.

A very interesting wine that I tried when in Fredericksburg, Texas was an Orange Moscato.  It tasted like sweet oranges.
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Online ivaylo

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Re: Wine Aficionado's
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2015, 06:48:49 am »
But I've not developed the ability to tell the difference in most of the reds.
Most of the aficionados can't tell either. "Ummm, full body, leathery notes and tobacco aftertone." - my ass... @Halon, don't mean you, enjoy your wine.
 

n45048

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Re: Wine Aficionado's
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2015, 07:09:42 am »
But I've not developed the ability to tell the difference in most of the reds.
Most of the aficionados can't tell either. "Ummm, full body, leathery notes and tobacco aftertone." - my ass... @Halon, don't mean you, enjoy your wine.

Haha, no I agree with you! I read some of these tasting notes and wonder how many bottles of the stuff the authors have actually consumed while writing it. Although I have to admit some notes are spot on. For example, I remember tasting one particular wine (I think it might have been a Pinot Grigio or Pinot Gris from Tasmania) and the first thing that pops into your mind is passionfruit.

One thing that annoys me is this matching food with wine thing. Granted that contrasting and complementing flavours such as a strong stilton or Blue cheese paired with nice white is magic, but it's not mandated. It depends on the mood and taste of the consumer; if someone doesn't like white wine, they aren't going to be blown away by it no matter how you match it.

The other thing that annoys me is when people tell me off for keeping my red wines in the fridge. Little do they know that red wine is best consumed at around 13 degrees Celsius which is not "room temperature" in Australia. In my opinion red wine tastes horrible at 20-25 degrees, so I like it slightly chilled. Likewise if it's a particularly hot day and I'm just not in the mood for white wine, I'll throw an ice cube or two into a glass of red. It's actually quite refreshing! I find some people who say they dislike red wine actually start to enjoy it more when it's chilled.

I'm partial to particularly oaky and full bodied reds. I think out of all the varietals, Shiraz would be my favourite.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2015, 07:19:37 am by Halon »
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: Wine Aficionado's
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2015, 07:49:34 am »
I have the unfortunate luck to be born in the Basque country right in between the Bordaux and the Rioja regions. And by unfortunate, I mean that I grew up with those wines, so to my taste nothing compares to them.

Best to my taste is a good Chateau Lafite Rothschild, but the excellent ones are out of reach at today's prices since 2005, before that you could get a great wine for under $100, now they are at least 10 times that if no more.

So my new affordable favorite is a Marques de Riscal Rioja Gran Reserva or a Muga Rioja Gran Reserva. My last favorite year for Rioja wines is 2005, if you can afford it, then 1994 and 1982 where the previous excellent year but I really want to at least taste a 1964 (my birth year) because it was an excellent year both for Rioja and Bordeaux (so was 1982) but wines that old are probably not kept well or if they are still good, they are can only be appreciated with food, these are not drinking wines and they bring their taste with a good meal (not fish since I'm talking about red wines) Lamb chops with cumin comes to mind.

But I never paid more than $200 for a bottle of wine and if I did it was by mistake and not telling the sommelier to take the bottle back at a restaurant.

Now to tell you the truth, I'm happy with a Black Box Cabernet for $25 for the equivalent of 4 bottles, for everyday wine. Although, my wife lets me get some good ones at least 4 times a year and when we go out for dinner which is not often.

Funny thing is that when I go visit my parents in Spain, they still have wines older than me on their cellar, and for that I'm very grateful.

I did try other wines but since I grew up with those grape blends I'm always inclined to the North of Spain/South of France for non table wines.
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: Wine Aficionado's
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2015, 07:56:25 am »
Chile has an excellent reputation for wines. Here I can buy some extraordinary wines for low prices. This is one of the few benefits to living here. I have a favourite here, Novas Cabernet Sauvignon. It is only around $10USD for a 750ml bottle, but it is one of the best wines I have had. The other best Cabs I have had were from OZ.
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: Wine Aficionado's
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2015, 08:34:26 am »
The Black Box 2013 Cabernet Sauvignon that we use regularly at home for less than $25 for a box that contains the equivalent of 4 bottles is from Chile. It can be had for as little as $20 so it's $5 per bottle.

I wouldn't call it an excellent wine but for everyday consumption is better than alright, as in pretty good.

Alcohol taxes in the States are weird, it's cheaper to purchase imported wines than local wines. I do like Sebastiani Cabernet from California 2012 for around $10-$20, but you can get good Rioja and Bourdaux for less than that and I'm partial to the grape blends of those regions instead of a single grape wine, they are more consistent over the years like tea, by changing the percentages they can achieve a consistent expectation where a single grape from a given region/year can't do that.

 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Wine Aficionado's
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2015, 09:11:37 am »
I'm an icecream aficionado.
 

n45048

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Re: Wine Aficionado's
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2015, 09:19:31 am »
I'm an icecream aficionado.

Although not quite ice cream, I make a mean chocolate mousse using Lindt dark chocolate. Surprisingly easy to make actually.
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: Wine Aficionado's
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2015, 09:31:53 am »
My wine journey started in 2000 when a ham radio buddy of mine from Perth (Oz) announced that "there were no good restaurants in London". Well, as a Londoner I'd read about how we were dragging ourselves up out of the dark ages of the greasy spoon and into fine dining, so we ended up going on a food and wine binge that's still going on to this day, and other than collecting test equipment unnecessarily, food & wine is my pastime.

Going back, I was frustrated that I'd buy a box of red wine one day in a supermarket, and then buy another of the same a few weeks later and they didn't seem to taste the same. Indeed, even the same box, one day I'd enjoy it, a week later I wouldn't. Well, other than it was in a box, I since learned that there's a lot more going on than the wine itself. Mainly it's what I was eating with it.

My mental wine list in those days amounted to "red". I disliked white, and really detested dessert wine. I just didn't get them. Then one day early in my F&B trip with my buddy, we had a Tarte Tatin paired with a Sauternes. That was it, I totally got it. Before, when trying dessert wine, half a dozen of us would sit around a table, all order different desserts from dark chocolate to a lemon tart, and think that one bottle of dessert wine was going to work with all of them. Well, it won't!

Ever since that day it's become a mission to achieve the perfect food and wine match, so I usually drink wine with food rather than on its own. I started collecting too, I bought a Liebherr cellar and started stocking it up, and I still have some awesome stuff in there. I always have four or five different bottles of white chilled, each one ready for the right time.

Even better, my other half, who's French, has a family vineyard in Alsace. I met her over food and wine, I turned up for a dinner party and knowing it was going to be spicy food brought an Alsatian Riesling and Gerwurtz. I didn't know she was from Alsace, it was purely coincidental, other than I knew that Riesling and Gerwurtz are a good match with spicy food, and Alsace is the home of those grape varieties. So forget internet dating, drink wine!

The most interesting part of the journey I found is that as well as understanding better what you're buying, your palate changes very noticeably. Things that you just did not appreciate before become alive and are appreciated. I used to hate big buttery oaky chardonnays, now I love them, especially with non-blue cow and sheep cheese. And unoaked NZ sauv blanc with a goats cheese, noms.

I started off largely on red Bordeaux, but I hardly touch it nowadays. I don't consider red Bordeaux to be value for money, and haven't for over decade. There is huge speculation on these and other classic wines such as from Burgundy and Rhone from the emerging markets of China and Russia, and there is extraordinarily better value from elsewhere. The white and sweet Bordeaux however seem to be largely unaffected.

My price point now starts at £7.50, but can go stratospheric on the odd occasion. In the UK there's about a couple of quid of tax on a bottle before you've even looked at the label, so a £3 wine has only cost £1 to make, transport and give the retailer their cut. So barely £0.30 has gone into that wine. A £7.50 bottle on the other hand will probably have about £3, or ten times as much effort, put into the wine itself.

My personal favourites:

Champagne: Krug NV, Bollinger Grande Annee, Giraud Code Noir

White: Te Koko, Petaluma Tiers (or any big buttery chard), any NZ sauvignon blanc, Alsace Riesling and Gerwurtz, white Bordeaux esp. Y d'Yquem

Red: Apothic Red (connoisseurs hate this), Russian River, Sonoma and Napa Pinot Noirs like Kistler, Big Calfornian Cab Sav bruisers like Modicum.

Sweet: Everything, but there is nothing like Ch d'Yquem, although Ch Fargues comes close.

I also enjoy sherries across the board, a much underrated drink, very good as a food drink, but admittedly an acquired taste for some.





 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: Wine Aficionado's
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2015, 09:32:38 am »
I'm an icecream aficionado.

You should try Ch. d'Yquem with vanilla ice cream, there is nothing like it.

Edit:

Ch. d'Yquem 2008 with Pistacchio and vanilla ice cream, and 1975 Kopke Tawny Port with chocolate ice cream, courtesy of Qatar airlines a couple of weeks ago.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2015, 09:38:09 am by Howardlong »
 

Offline Mechanical Menace

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Re: Wine Aficionado's
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2015, 11:16:49 am »
Unfortunately I can't drink anything made out of grapes. All of them either make me puke or give me an instant headache.
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Offline rolycat

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Re: Wine Aficionado's
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2015, 11:28:04 am »
The problem with choosing wine is that there is so much variety and 'professional' reviews are all but worthless. What tastes good to one person in one situation may be undrinkable for another.

Among others, Frédéric Brochet's studies at the University of Bordeaux showed that the taste of wine is wildly subjective and highly affected by environment and the preconceptions of the reviewer. He famously showed that oenologists were easily fooled by white wine with red food colouring, and by cheap wine in expensive bottles.

The effect of these conclusions on 'true' oenophiles seems to be that they need fifty different types of wineglass, because since taste depends on environment only a philistine would drink rioja out of a syrah glass.

Oenophools?
« Last Edit: February 27, 2015, 05:00:54 pm by rolycat »
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: Wine Aficionado's
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2015, 11:50:50 am »
The problem with choosing wine is that there is so much variety and 'professional' reviews are all but worthless. What tastes good to one person in one situation may be undrinkable for another.

Among others, Frédéric Brochet's studies at the University of Bordeaux showed that the taste of wine is wildly subjective and highly affected by environment and the preconceptions of the reviewer. He famously showed that oenologists were easily fooled by white wine with red food colouring, and by cheap wine in expensive bottles.

The effect of these conclusions on 'true' oenophiles seems to be that they need fifty different types of wineglass, because since taste depends on environment only a philistine whould drink rioja out of a syrah glass.

Oenophools?

Actually, I have a reasonable selection of Riedel. Before making a decision, I _really_ would recommend you try it for yourself. I thought it was bollocks too, by the way. While it's the law of diminishing returns, a decent large set of, say, Vinum Bordeaux for your reds and oaky chards, and their Chablis for your unoaked whites is a good way to go. If you still drink your wine from dainty cut glass thimbles, then that's definitely a problem, you're largely wasting the wine apart from the minor euphoria you may enjoy. Enjoying wine is about the entire olfactory process, a thimble sized glass is useless in that regard.

What is bollocks is corks. There is absolutely no need for them, they cause far more problems than a screw top.
 

Offline rolycat

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Re: Wine Aficionado's
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2015, 12:00:48 pm »

Actually, I have a reasonable selection of Riedel. Before making a decision, I _really_ would recommend you try it for yourself. I thought it was bollocks too, by the way. While it's the law of diminishing returns, a decent large set of, say, Vinum Bordeaux for your reds and oaky chards, and their Chablis for your unoaked whites is a good way to go. If you still drink your wine from dainty cut glass thimbles, then that's definitely a problem, you're largely wasting the wine apart from the minor euphoria you may enjoy. Enjoying wine is about the entire olfactory process, a thimble sized glass is useless in that regard.

I do enjoy drinking from Riedel glassware, and definitely prefer an aromatic red to be in a suitably capacious glass. I only part company from the oenophools when they demand a differently nuanced shape for every varietal.

 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: Wine Aficionado's
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2015, 12:10:28 pm »

Actually, I have a reasonable selection of Riedel. Before making a decision, I _really_ would recommend you try it for yourself. I thought it was bollocks too, by the way. While it's the law of diminishing returns, a decent large set of, say, Vinum Bordeaux for your reds and oaky chards, and their Chablis for your unoaked whites is a good way to go. If you still drink your wine from dainty cut glass thimbles, then that's definitely a problem, you're largely wasting the wine apart from the minor euphoria you may enjoy. Enjoying wine is about the entire olfactory process, a thimble sized glass is useless in that regard.

I do enjoy drinking from Riedel glassware, and definitely prefer an aromatic red to be in a suitably capacious glass. I only part company from the oenophools when they demand a differently nuanced shape for every varietal.

I agree to a large extent. I may be old fashioned, but I don't like their stemless glasses for wine, but I do use them as water tumblers. I also don't like any fanciness, just plain transparent glass.

There is one benefit, it's always easy to give people ideas for Christmas and birthday presents. Although I am generally pretty good with glassware, that same level of care does not seem to extend to the rest of the family!
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Wine Aficionado's
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2015, 02:55:48 pm »
One thing that annoys me is this matching food with wine thing. Granted that contrasting and complementing flavours such as a strong stilton or Blue cheese paired with nice white is magic, but it's not mandated. It depends on the mood and taste of the consumer; if someone doesn't like white wine, they aren't going to be blown away by it no matter how you match it.

The other thing that annoys me is when people tell me off for keeping my red wines in the fridge. Little do they know that red wine is best consumed at around 13 degrees Celsius which is not "room temperature" in Australia. In my opinion red wine tastes horrible at 20-25 degrees, so I like it slightly chilled. Likewise if it's a particularly hot day and I'm just not in the mood for white wine, I'll throw an ice cube or two into a glass of red. It's actually quite refreshing! I find some people who say they dislike red wine actually start to enjoy it more when it's chilled.

Just to comment on this - it's something I find irritating about people, society and life in general.  I was in Kiev a while back and they had "nuts for beer" (funny translation to English).  I ordered some... the waiter asked what kind of beer I wanted.  I said I just wanted the nuts.  He said "but they are for beer".  They were priced separately and an individual menu item.  The people I was with couldn't understand it either... but I just wanted some damn nuts  :o

I also really like the combination of beer and sweet tastes.  It's sort of like the sweet offsets the bitter of the beer.  People think I am crazy to enjoy a budweiser with my coffee cake or with a kit kat, but I like the combination of tastes.

One of the most important things in life is to do what makes you happy and not follow a crowd.  But I digress...

I've always wanted to be a wine connoisseur, but despite years of trying, I just can't get into it.  I guess I don't like wine.  I learned about all the various types and mixes and methods of production and regions and storage and consumption guides - but at the end of the day, I just don't like the taste of alcohol very much. 

Electronics related - Cypress has a short range wireless product called CyFi.  They had an application where they'd developed units to monitor barrels (casks?) of wine in some vineyard basement.  I believe they were measuring various data about the wines and communicating it back in real time to a central system.  Pretty neat applicaiton.,
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Offline retrolefty

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Re: Wine Aficionado's
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2015, 03:54:57 pm »
The problem with choosing wine is that there is so much variety and 'professional' reviews are all but worthless. What tastes good to one person in one situation may be undrinkable for another.

Among others, Frédéric Brochet's studies at the University of Bordeaux showed that the taste of wine is wildly subjective and highly affected by environment and the preconceptions of the reviewer. He famously showed that oenologists were easily fooled by white wine with red food colouring, and by cheap wine in expensive bottles.

The effect of these conclusions on 'true' oenophiles seems to be that they need fifty different types of wineglass, because since taste depends on environment only a philistine whould drink rioja out of a syrah glass.

Oenophools?

 Yes, sounds just like the AudioFools community.  8)
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Wine Aficionado's
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2015, 05:09:38 pm »
I do buy wine, and do actually use it myself in cooking. as to drinking, I do not drink, the last time was around 2000 new year, where I had a tot glass of sparkling wine ( not made in Champagne France) and I was hung over the next day. Not used to drinking after 10 years.......... Had a sip of a really good Louis XIV ( think it was 14, but a long time ago) wine a few years ago, it was very nice, very good taste.

Cooking I tend to use SA Merlot and other red wines, and I found a really good one from my local supermarket, appropriately one of the house branded wines apropos to the internet age, being the bin 404. 500 was also good, and 503 as well. Sadly the 404 is no longer available......... They recently had a sale on wines, end of range, so bought a few Australian wines on clearance. The others that drank them quite enjoyed the taste.

Funny thing is I really do not like the taste of beer, very odd seeing as my Dad worked for a brewery. Like Brewers yeast though, it is a great snack food, especially if you get it fresh and piping hot off the drying drum at the brewery in large flakes, before it is sifted and powdered.

Reason I stopped drinking was twofold, I moved to a small town with the 3 entertainment places being pubs, and I could drink 2 bottles of Schnapps straight without a hangover. Decided I liked my liver intact, not as something to use to sole boots. Did not help................
 

Offline Tallie

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Re: Wine Aficionado's
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2015, 01:06:51 am »
On the subject of wine... Applied Science (Ben) recently posted a video explaining the science behind wine "legs"... https://www.youtube.com/embed/s6w0tSg-msk
 

Offline zapta

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Re: Wine Aficionado's
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2015, 06:08:47 pm »
Unfortunately I can't drink anything made out of grapes. All of them either make me puke or give me an instant headache.

How about grapefruits?.

;-)
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Offline Zero999

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Re: Wine Aficionado's
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2015, 01:21:15 pm »
I've never been able to stand wine, even the smell of it makes me feel nauseous. I remember going on holiday where there was wine tasting and felt very antisocial because I felt sick so had to sit on a table on my own.

I used to drink beer, some ciders, spirits.  I've not drunk for a couple of years now. At first it was because I was on antidepressants but now I don't want to go back. I think I used to drink too much, especially the binge drinking.

I like cheese and it would annoy me if someone tried to push me into having wine with my cheese would really annoy me.
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: Wine Aficionado's
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2015, 02:27:03 pm »
I'm not sure anyone's necessarily suggesting that you have to like something. And I also have absolutely no doubt that it's not as objective as some might say. My missus hates dessert wine, but some of the best stuff comes out of her family's vineyard.

The biggest problem I had was in picking a wine I liked, and as I mentioned earlier, the same wine a day between, all other things being equal, I might love one day and dislike the next. But why?

Maybe 15 years ago, my hit rate on opening what I perceive to be an enjoyable drop of wine was one in six. That's why I didn't get it. But now my hit rate is easily five in six. So what has changed?

Part of it is price point, I just won't buy a wine that's only had $0.50 spent in making it. But I would buy a wine that I enjoy that's had $5 spent in making it. (Note that the retail price of those might be $5 and $10 respectively, while it's a ten fold increase in producing the wine, it's only a doubling of the cost retail). But at the bottom end I doubt anyone would deny it's more of a crap shoot than at the upper end.

But more importantly, rather than just going "red" or "white" when asked what wine I'd like, I want to know more about it and make a judgement from there. If I go to a pub, which is pretty rare these days, and ask them what wine they have, and if I'm answered "Red or white", I'll invariably have a beer. You just know that the chance of you enjoying a "red or white" is remote. So there's a bit of education in there.

And there's a third part, and that's appreciation: I am absolutely sure that your palate changes to some degree. Perhaps that's more to do with the fact that you're going to choose a wine that, for you, seems to work with a particular food, so you don't have a combination of juxtaposing flavours in your mouth. Then there's another part to this. If I go out for dinner, I am often asked to choose wine, but I ask what everyone's having to eat, and I will adjust my food to first to what others are having to make it work better. Maybe we'll drink by the glass, and although it's regrettably all too rare, a decent restaurant ought to have a reasonably good selection, and have at least one glass that they can honestly recommend for each and every course on their menu. Either way, if some people have preferences they are encouraged to say that, if you want a beer, then yes, have a beer. As an example, I really enjoy crispy duck pancakes with a bitter or if I can get it a Belgian cherry beer, to me that works much better than any wine I've tasted with that dish.

Again, it's the law of diminishing returns. As a general rule, spending £100 on a bottle of wine is extremely unlikely to give you ten times the enjoyment of a decent well-chosen £10 bottle. In fact I would love to see someone genuinely persuade me otherwise. However I would say it's much less likely to be a crap wine at £100 compared to a £10 price point. But if you're trying to enjoy a £100 red Bordeaux with a bowl of vanilla ice cream, then I would not be surprised that the drinker would think it's all balony, but equally I would respect their wish. After all, recently, the Chinese penchant for mixing Coke with reds has been shown to have some merit in certain quarters, although mostly it seems it's to get rid of the awful taste of a crap wine.

I'm also certain that their's plenty of complete bollocks out there just like audiophoolery. Of course if you've just spent $100 on a bottle you're going to _want_ to enjoy it, there's undoubtedly a positive correlation. And if you end up choosing a $100 and sit at the table worrying about the expense while the sommelier fetches the bottle from the cellar, then yes, just like the $5 blackjack gambler who accidentally sits at a $50 table, you've definitely done the wrong thing, I'd get up from the table and make my excuses before it's too late!
 

n45048

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Re: Wine Aficionado's
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2015, 07:10:20 am »
If I go to a pub, which is pretty rare these days, and ask them what wine they have, and if I'm answered "Red or white", I'll invariably have a beer. You just know that the chance of you enjoying a "red or white" is remote. So there's a bit of education in there.

This reminds me of a pub I went to in Goulburn (not exactly the most exciting or elegant town in Australia). I asked them if they had a wine list (which they didn't) when the barman proceeded to tell me they had "house white and house red" while indicating towards some boxes of wine sitting in the fridge.

They did have bottled wine of which I ordered a sparkling. I must have looked like the biggest drunk ordering an entire bottle to myself just to avoid the cask stuff.
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: Wine Aficionado's
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2015, 08:23:48 am »
If I go to a pub, which is pretty rare these days, and ask them what wine they have, and if I'm answered "Red or white", I'll invariably have a beer. You just know that the chance of you enjoying a "red or white" is remote. So there's a bit of education in there.

This reminds me of a pub I went to in Goulburn (not exactly the most exciting or elegant town in Australia). I asked them if they had a wine list (which they didn't) when the barman proceeded to tell me they had "house white and house red" while indicating towards some boxes of wine sitting in the fridge.

They did have bottled wine of which I ordered a sparkling. I must have looked like the biggest drunk ordering an entire bottle to myself just to avoid the cask stuff.

I think I'd have done the same as you if it makes you feel any better!
 


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