Author Topic: Wish Julian Assange was super rich, then he could just walk free easily .....  (Read 28527 times)

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Offline MikeK

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The facts should be disclosed in their entirety and not presented with bias.

I don't mean to jump on your back, since someone else has already replied to this statement.  But bias is inevitable.  What there needs to be is a diversity of opinion.  Without bias, reporters don't go after events they think are important.  Some things ARE more important than others.  The best reporters recognize what things are important.  And that is bias.

Our media is going in the other direction in the U.S., and it is awful.  Reporters are clueless about issues.
 

Offline SgtRock

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Greetings EEVBees:

--Publishing 250,000 USA State Department Emails is not the act of a whistle blower. it is the act of an Anti-American anarchist. Whistle blowers do not get Anti-Jihadi whistle blowers killed. So far, Mr. Assange has had a TV show hosted from Putin's Russia, been granted asylum by a criminal front man known for arresting journalists, and acquired a lawyer, who had to resign his judgeship after he authorized wire tapping the attorneys of criminal defendants. If you are going to sup with the devil, you will need a long spoon, and Mr. Assange is using a spork. Next he will turn up in Iran as Mymood Iminajihad's organ grinder.

--Bias in media is fine, it is even expected, but it should be openly declared, and facts should not be distorted. Here in the USA the Major Media like to report on the plight of the homeless, but only during Republican administrations. Reuters and AP have reported 40 or 50 out of the last one or two US and Israeli collateral damage incidents. A lot of innocent people were killed by Allied bombing in WWII but we did not have wire services insinuating "Did Allied Bombers Strike Orphanage On Purpose? "What happened to my puppy?" says wounded 5 year old."

“Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."
H.L. Mencken 1880 - 1956

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Offline HackedFridgeMagnet

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Sargeant Rock, I know you and many in the US are champing at the bit to get Julian Assange into Guantanamo bay, but you will have more chance of success if you refrain from demonising him until you have him safely under lock and key.

But I would be interested to hear what charges you expect he will be charged with, or even what you would charge him with,
  • maybe publishing emails that say "top secret" at the top.
  • maybe breaking the soon to be introduced, and retrospective Anti American anarchist law.
  • maybe having a TV show in Putin's Russia.
  • maybe being granted asylum by a criminal front man.

I wonder how many US. secret agent's lives he has put in danger? But I can't seem to get a figure on it.
Actually  I know of one at least.
The Australian Ex minister for sports Mark Arbib. He certainly resigned soon afterwards.



 

Offline dda

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Why is there an expectation by the US for citizens of other countries to keep their secrets?
 

Offline HardBoot

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Why is there an expectation by the US for citizens of other countries to keep their secrets?
Years of propaganda have made Americans(particularly white people) have most of their political interests against what's good for them, the us gov can and does throw critical journalists into secret prisons, just like china and the ussr before it collapsed.
 

Uncle Vernon

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Years of propaganda have made Americans particularly white people
I bet this had Michael Jackson feeling ripped off. All that money for surgery to turn him into a white woman, and he could have achieved similar results just by listening to TV propaganda.  ???
 

Offline SgtRock

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Greetings EEVBees:

--Dda has asked "Why is there an expectation by the US for citizens of other countries to keep their secrets?"

--Now, while I cannot officially speak for the good old USA, as a veteran and a former member of the "US UK CAN AUS NZ Eyes Only" community, I will give you my humble opinion. It is not so much that the USA expects foreign citizens to keep its secrets, as that, it expects and demands that they do not, in contravention of law, break in and steal them. Kind of like Dda having the expectation that no one will break into his computer or smart phone and publish everything in order to get money and favors from murderous tyrants like Vladimir Stalin, er.., I mean Putin who murders real whistle blowers, journalists and politicians, and holds Kangaroo Court (no offense mate) Show Trials in order to put girls in the Gulag for singing songs. Meanwhile the folks who put up the bail money for the Silver Pimpernel can go spit, and his former good buddy Bradly Manning has been left holding a rather damp and malodorous bag, Mr. Assange having no more use for any of them, now that he has new friends like Putin and Correa who are fellow "Free Speech" advocates. It would have been nice for Mr. Assange to warn Pvt. Manning to that he was about to pull the cob out of the cow's arse, so that Pvt. Manning could have found himself a Murderous Dictator for a Sugar Daddy as well, but you cannot make an omelet..."

--When I had the honor and the privilege of providing intelligence to Armed Forces of our beloved countries, you can damn well bet I did not blab things which would get them killed, just to provoke a mild case of embarrassment for some politician or other.

"Great fleas have little fleas upon their backs to bite 'em,
And little fleas have lesser fleas, and so ad infinitum."
Augustus De Morgan 1806 -1871

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Offline SgtRock

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Greetings EEVBees:

--HardBoot has said "Years of propaganda have made Americans(particularly white people) have most of their political interests against what's good for them, the us gov can and does throw critical journalists into secret prisons, just like china and the ussr before it collapsed."

--And no one can tell you about it because anyone who could have, has been carted off to one of Rosenfelt's secret prisons.

--Und zo, after Gretl finishes zinging Edelweiss, vie vill all choin in die Horst Wessell zong... Mein Gott! ... Dey are breaking down die door ... Schwartzen Helicopteren mitt die Psychotropen Blinken Lighten ... It ist die Götterdämmerung ... Helllllllp ...
 
"I have had my results for a long time: but I do not yet now how I am to arrive at them."
Carl Friedrich Gauss 1777 1855

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Online EEVblog

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--Publishing 250,000 USA State Department Emails is not the act of a whistle blower. it is the act of an Anti-American anarchist.

So you also think the New York Times, and others who also published cables are guilty of the same crime?

If the actual person who leaked the cables had do so through some other online service (lets say an ISP, or web host et.al), should the head of that service also be guilty of the same crime and be labelled the same way?

Dave.
 

Online EEVblog

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--When I had the honor and the privilege of providing intelligence to Armed Forces of our beloved countries, you can damn well bet I did not blab things which would get them killed, just to provoke a mild case of embarrassment for some politician or other.

Name the people who have been killed as a result of these leaked cables.

Did it not occur to you that maybe this leak has done your country a favour?, by exposing a huge vulnerability in your system for keeping this stuff confidential? and hence giving an incentive to improve the security?
How many had access to this stuff?, IIRC it was at least several million people?

Dave.
 

Uncle Vernon

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--When I had the honor and the privilege of providing intelligence to Armed Forces of our beloved countries you can damn well bet I did not blab things which would get them killed, just to provoke a mild case of embarrassment for some politician or other.
Do you, in your mind, hear someone playing the fife while you're spruiking this nonsense?

Name the people who have been killed as a result of these leaked cables.
I almost died laughing while I was reading the prior quote. Does that count?

Quote
Did it not occur to you that maybe this leak has done your country a favour?
I cannot see how any of this whole cesspit of events has done anyone any favours, not Assange and his naughty boy actions or the massive over reactions by a variety of inept national administrations.

I have as much sympathy for Assange as I have for those kids that tease the neighbour's Rottweiler. No matter how many times you tell them, they don't get it until it all has ended in tears.
 

Offline SgtRock

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Greetings EEVBees:

--Our gracious host has asked "So you also think the New York Times, and others who also published cables are guilty of the same crime? If the actual person who leaked the cables had do so through some other online service (lets say an ISP, or web host et.al), should the head of that service also be guilty of the same crime and be labelled the same way?

--In this particular case it does not really matter at all what I think. This kind of case has already been litigated. The US Supreme Court has already ruled that the Government could not exercise prior restraint of publication of the Pentagon Papers by the New York times. The NY Times has repeatedly published stories revealing intelligence programs that were tapping into Al Qaeda cell phones and programs tracing Al Qaeda financing, and quite apparently has every legal right to do so, even though this helped the terrorists to kill even more people. However the persons (unnamed sources) who leaked or stole the classified information, would still be subject to prosecution, if their identities were to be "leaked". And, I am just guessing here mind you, but leaking the identity of the leakers, would probably not meet with such a vociferous defense, nay? Now, with regard to the Assange WikiLeaks case, Mr. Assange's guilt or innocence would turn on whether or not he received electronic documents that were dropped on his doorstep, as in the Pentagon Papers case, or whether Mr. Assange and WikiLeaks actively penetrated US computer systems. In the first case he would be innocent, and in the second he would be guilty. It does not matter if the computer system belonged to Joe Blow or the US. If Mr. Assange was a passive recipient he is an innocent journalist, if he entered someone else's system without permission he is a thief, just as with the UK phone hackers. But Mr. Assange cannot be innocent merely because some folks like the cut of his jib. I just do not think, he is a Saint, but I of course agree that he should not be punished just because some people do not like his actions. And, Mr. Assange might even agree with my contention that he is an Anti-American Anarchist.

--Dave has also said "Name the people who have been killed as a result of these leaked cables. Did it not occur to you that maybe this leak has done your country a favour?, by exposing a huge vulnerability in your system for keeping this stuff confidential? and hence giving an incentive to improve the security? How many had access to this stuff?, IIRC it was at least several million people?"

--Taking the second question first, let me say that, I believe I already answered the question about being notified of a hole in fence when I stated "I take the point. Poptones is correct that revealing the leaks was a service", I just do not think it was necessary or a good thing to publish every single one. Nor do I believe that Mr. Assange was attempting to do my country, or any of the other "Free" countries mentioned in the Emails any favors. If DJ were to go on vacation and leave his front door unlocked, I would try to get the Police to check it out and lock the door, and I would not post pictures and the address on the internet as a "favor".

--Trying to connect any single one of the Taliban's numerous Afgani, and US murder victims directly to a particular leaked cable would be a difficult task, and obviously would probably be of even more help to the Murderers. But this would only be a concern for people who care about such things. But that a number of human beings were put in dire jeopardy by these leaks, is to my mind, beyond dispute. Please see the below link to a UK Telegraph article on the subject.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/7915426/Wikileaks-Afghanistan-Pentagon-says-informants-lives-at-risk.html

"But The Times reported that after just two hours of combing through the documents it was able to find the names of dozens of Afghans said to have provided detailed intelligence to US forces. The Times cited one 2008 document that included a detailed interview with a Taliban fighter considering defection. The man, who names local Taliban commanders and talks about other potential defectors, is identified by name, along with his father’s name and village."

--Of course, I agree that the US State Department must bear a large share of the responsibility for putting the lives of "friendlies" in danger. Stating, of course that I understand that DJ and others on this thread dispute the notion that anyone innocent could have possibly been harmed by this information.

"Happy for you to desoldering, please."
Wun Hung Lo 1948 -

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Offline G7PSK

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If the wiki leaks affair shows anything it is the appalling lack of moral fiber in the public employees and service personnel, There are people who did secret or had access to secrets during the second world war that still have not revealed what they did even to their families. I t would appear that these days if some one is given secret information that they just cannot wait to run out into the street and shout it out for every one to hear.   
 

Online EEVblog

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Can't think of anything more to say at the moment, apart from my recognition that the internet is a magnificent feat of engineering. To think that I can type some random ramblings and have it viewed by thousands of people blows my mind. I personally believe that all of our ramblings on different subjects are the reorganising of information (a sort of cognitive functioning) inside a collective mind that is far more intelligent than the individual components (Us). As I've heard them say occasionally in the media: "The hive mind of the internet worked it out before us." I'm sure we'll work out whether Assange is a good/bad in the end.

The communications revolution offered by the internet has irrevocably changed the course of world politics, world history, world affairs, and the education and enlightenment of the masses. It is unstoppable, and what Assange and Wikileaks have set up is unstoppable. It was in fact, an inevitable consequence of the communications revolution. So it makes absolutely no difference if people agree or disagree with Assange/Wikileaks et.al, they simply have to live with the fact that this is the future progress of our civilisation, like it or not. Those who do not adapt or try to stop it will inevitably fail.
That is why I think without a doubt Assange will be on the right side of history.

Dave.
 

Online EEVblog

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If the wiki leaks affair shows anything it is the appalling lack of moral fiber in the public employees and service personnel, There are people who did secret or had access to secrets during the second world war that still have not revealed what they did even to their families. I t would appear that these days if some one is given secret information that they just cannot wait to run out into the street and shout it out for every one to hear.   

Well, considering that (by most accounts) several million people had access to this leaked information, it comes down to pure statistics I'm afraid. So I think your comment is unfounded here.
BTW, WW2 was full of traitors and spies, people who didn't just leak some (embarrassing at best) emails, but top secret stuff that could have changed the course of the war and indeed cost many lives.

Dave.
 

Offline bullet308

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There is no doubt that the entire nature of information has changed. In the commercial arena, it has, in economic terms, been  greatly devalued by its becoming ubiquitous. Of course, the RIAA didnt get the memo on that...

And in the governmental area, it has become fundamentally harder to keep secrets. I suspect that you are right, that Assange is a trailblazer of sorts, and in principal is on the right side of history.

However...I used to teach US History for a living to high school kids, age 16 or so, and every term, I had to deal with the legacy of John Brown. See, John Brown was on the right side of history, too. He was an aggressive, militant abolitionist and fought against slavery at every turn, most famously in the then-frontier state of Kansas. Problem is, sometimes in his zeal, he would do things like drag his opponents out of their homes and into their own front yards and hack them to bits with swords and other such nastiness. Eventually, he was captured trying to take over a government armory in a foolhardy bid to kick off a huge slave revolt in the south and got hung for his trouble and thus became a martyr for the abolitionist movement.

The right side of history? Sure. The right guy doing the right thing for a good cause? Not so much...

And I feel that Assange is somewhat in the same camp...the zealot who goes too far for a good cause. He may be venerated one day, or he may leave a more complex legacy such as John Brown, but one way or the other, he is likely to pay a steep price. They don't call it the "bleeding edge" for nothing...
>>>BULLET>>>
 

Offline SgtRock

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Re: Wish Julian Assange was super rich, then he could just walk free easily .....
« Reply #116 on: September 07, 2012, 12:33:35 pm »
Greetings EEVBees:

--As an openness advocate, Mr. Assange might want to pick his friends more carefully. Please see below additional interesting information on the WikiLeaks front. I have not included a link to the London's Private Eye article on this subject because it has no documentation, and it is single sourced, and therefore open to dispute.

--WikiLeaks UK media partner, goes off the reservation, see link below.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/nov/08/israel-shamir-julian-assange-cult-machismo

--And below the Libertarian Flagship Magazine delves into the antics of the noted Russian Jew-hater.

http://reason.com/blog/2011/02/03/julian-assange-and-israel-sham

"According to a reporter on Russian paper Kommersant, he was offering to sell articles based on the cables for $10,000 (£6,300). He had already passed some to the state-backed publication Russian Reporter. He traveled on to Belarus, ruled by the Soviet-style dictator Alexander Lukashenko, where he met regime officials. The Russian Interfax news agency reported that Shamir was WikiLeaks' "Russian representative", and had "confirmed the existence of the Belarus dossier".

--And lastly a clip from BBC's Panorama, with clip isolated below. This is the show that led Mr. Assange to assert that the BBC were using "Stolen Documents".

http://modernityblog.wordpress.com/2011/03/03/bbcs-panorama-julian-assange-and-israel-shamir/




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