Author Topic: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market  (Read 4620 times)

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Offline treez

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Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« on: July 14, 2018, 09:22:33 pm »
Hi,
A Chinese friend ( he was a coursemate on my electronics degree course) has approached me.... He wants to import vast amounts  of electric toy cars into UK for sale.
However, being Chinese he cannot do this.
He says he needs me (i am a British National) to set up a "company" in the UK, and then he can import the toy cars into the UK via  this 'company'. I  will simply act as middle man, and will cream off a huge profit, he tells me £200,000 per year.
How do i go about setting up a company?, and how do i avoid the customs officials?, because i hear that British Ports are not regulated by EU customs officials, so therefore we will not need to pay the EU import tariff.
Has anybody already done this?...and can offer advice on how to go about it?
Apparently it will help if we can build up our own product range of British goods, even if these sell at a loss....this shouldn't be difficult for me, because  as an electronics engineer i have designed a vast array of useless items which wouldnt sell at a profit...my last invention was a "self constipation reliever", which was simply a jug of  warm water with a solenoid valve into a tube which one opens via an electric switch when one has the tube inserted into your ****** (i wont mention it here)...this is done while one is lying down prone, and then the warm water flows down into  one's ***** and softens up the stool......relieveing the constipation

So we can  make loads of stuff like this to make it look like we are a real British company....apparently, one can even receive EU grants to do this kind of stuff.......does anybody know how we can apply for these?
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 09:33:23 pm by treez »
 

Offline chris_leyson

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2018, 09:34:07 pm »
Thefre is nothing stopping your Chinese friend setting up a UK company, https://www.rapidformations.co.uk/blog/can-a-non-uk-resident-form-a-uk-limited-company/ I wouldn't touch this with a barge pole and for gods sake don't use your address as the registered office.
 
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Online nctnico

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2018, 10:02:13 pm »
First of all: agency approvals! Getting these will cost a large sum of money. Without agency approvals you will run into liability and thus financial problems. Don't import anything if you have not had it tested yourself. You'll also need to check each batch whether it is made according to quality standards. All in all you are likely to make more money while working in a grocery store.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Online wraper

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2018, 10:19:17 pm »
Quote
and how do i avoid the customs officials?, because i hear that British Ports are not regulated by EU customs officials, so therefore we will not need to pay the EU import tariff.
Ending up in jail likely will stop you asking such stupid questions.
 
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Offline treez

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2018, 10:22:21 pm »
Quote
There is nothing stopping your Chinese friend setting up a UK company
Thanks yes, but  if they set a company up then they will find it difficult to avoid the trade  tariff on non-EU countries...whereas we  would be a British company, and  so we can pretend that we made the electric toy cars ourselves.

Quote
First of all: agency approvals! Getting these will cost a large sum of money.
Thankyou my Friend, but i am an electronics engineer, so i will be able to take the toy cars to pieces and see if they are going to be safe or not.

We wont  bother getting approvals, because nobody who buys the cars is going to bother checking whether  they are approved or not. All they care about is getting them cheap and that they are not going to burst into flames.
Seriously, do we think that the EU has approvals checkers running about taking consumer products and checking to see if they meet approvals?

In any case, the Chinese makers have already sold tens of thousands of these toy cars into the uk market, and there have been no problems, so we know they are safe......they also got them approved, so they are well safe.....but just now they are going to sell them through us, so that  the trade tariff can be side-stepped.

« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 10:33:38 pm by treez »
 

Offline treez

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2018, 10:25:10 pm »
Quote
Ending up in jail likely will stop you asking such stupid questions.
Loads of other british companies already do this.
 

Online blueskull

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2018, 10:26:40 pm »
Make sure your toy EV can survive 292V AC input, make sure it won't run at 170 degree C, and make sure it uses more than 630V rated MLCCs.
 
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Offline treez

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2018, 10:29:20 pm »
Thanks.
Quote
You'll also need to check each batch whether it is made according to quality standards.
Thanks but I dont think so......loads of other british companies already work like this and they dont check each batch...they dont even see the product...they  come straight from china to the customer without the british company seeing the product...all the british company does is simply count the money for acting as middle man.

How else do you think that chinese products get into the uk?

Quote
All in all you are likely to make more money while working in a grocery store.
Thanks, but if that was true, then there woudnt be any chinese products in UK...and in fact, most british products are from china.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 10:32:51 pm by treez »
 

Offline chris_leyson

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2018, 10:34:46 pm »
Quote
...whereas we  would be a British company, and so we can pretend that we made the electric to cars ourselves
A UK limited company IS a British company. I worked for a limited company that bought stuff from another limited company that was Chinese owned with a registered office in the UK, that way we could tell customers that "no there aren't any Chinese parts in this", they still had to pay import duty. Tell your Chinese friend to set up a limited company and then you can buy the cars from him.
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Ending up in jail likely will stop you asking such stupid questions
Treez, AKA the fall guy.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 10:45:05 pm by chris_leyson »
 
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Offline bson

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2018, 10:42:01 pm »
all the british company does is simply count the money for acting as middle man.
It's customs fraud, and guess who will be taking all the risk?  It won't last forever, eventually you'll get caught and not only will you forfeit every last penny you made from it as it'll be seized, but you will also go to prison.  They save a 1M, you make 200k.  The government will want 1M.  Guess who they will turn to, who will be left holding the bag?

 
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Offline treez

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2018, 10:47:59 pm »
Quote
The government will want 1M.  Guess who they will turn to, who will be left holding the bag?
Thanks, but no, the UK government has no interest in checking  tariffs placed on  goods imported from china, because the EU is in charge of this, and the EU customs officials arent at the UK ports, so they will never know.

Quote
Tell your Chinese friend to set up a limited company and then you can buy the cars from him.
Thanks , but there's no point in them setting up a company in uk...because all they need to do is send the products to the customer, and then pretend that we sent them, and also we will pretend that we made the products.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 10:50:50 pm by treez »
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2018, 10:53:22 pm »
Make sure your toy EV can survive 292V AC input, make sure it won't run at 170 degree C, and make sure it uses more than 630V rated MLCCs.
Why 630 volt?
 
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Online blueskull

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2018, 11:02:45 pm »
Make sure your toy EV can survive 292V AC input, make sure it won't run at 170 degree C, and make sure it uses more than 630V rated MLCCs.
Why 630 volt?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/ceramic-capacitor-is-of-too-low-voltage-som-etimes-blows-up-at-switch-on/
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2018, 11:10:20 pm »
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/ceramic-capacitor-is-of-too-low-voltage-som-etimes-blows-up-at-switch-on/
I don't really see an answer, other than that treez had an intermittent fault that doesn't necessarily seem related to the voltage rating. Or are you joking?
 
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Offline Eka

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2018, 11:16:29 pm »
In any case, the Chinese makers have already sold tens of thousands of these toy cars into the uk market, and there have been no problems, so we know they are safe......they also got them approved, so they are well safe.....but just now they are going to sell them through us, so that  the trade tariff can be side-stepped.
This says it all. Their last middle man got found out and is in trouble with the authorities. They need a new one, you.
 
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Offline IanB

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2018, 11:21:42 pm »
I think "treez" provides the highest level of comedy and entertainment on this forum by far. I think everyone must wait with eager anticipation to find out what kind of crazy thing he is going to ask about next.
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 
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Online wraper

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2018, 11:25:31 pm »
Quote
The government will want 1M.  Guess who they will turn to, who will be left holding the bag?
Thanks, but no, the UK government has no interest in checking  tariffs placed on  goods imported from china, because the EU is in charge of this, and the EU customs officials arent at the UK ports, so they will never know.
:palm: UK is part of EU (as for now). Goods cannot just slip into UK non taxed and customs not having interest about those. In any case, if you get caught at any point of the chain, you'll go to jail. Anything that get's in EU untaxed, also is easily sold in UK untaxed.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 11:48:54 pm by wraper »
 
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Offline olkipukki

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2018, 11:39:32 pm »

How do i go about setting up a company?, and how do i avoid the customs officials?, because i hear that British Ports are not regulated by EU customs officials, so therefore we will not need to pay the EU import tariff.
Has anybody already done this?...and can offer advice on how to go about it?


No worries, just call these guys on Monday morning and they will go through whole process  >:D
 
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Online nctnico

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2018, 11:40:11 pm »
Quote
The government will want 1M.  Guess who they will turn to, who will be left holding the bag?
Thanks, but no, the UK government has no interest in checking  tariffs placed on  goods imported from china, because the EU is in charge of this, and the EU customs officials arent at the UK ports, so they will never know.
:palm: UK is part of EU (as for now). Goods cannot just slip into UK non taxed and customs not having interest about those. In any case, if you get caught at any point of the chain, you'll go into jail. Anything that get's in EU untaxed, also is easily sold in UK untaxed.
Agreed. Don't mess with taxes and import tariffs! If the death penalty gets re-instated in a European country it will be for tax evasion. Don't do it because you'll end up in a world of pain!
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Online GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2018, 11:53:19 pm »
Ask Apple, they've been paying ~ no taxes for decades. And Starbucks. And Google. And... Ahh, no, you're not big enough to be friends with Mr. Junkers, are you?
http://brave.com <- BETTER AND FASTER BROWSER. YOUTUBE W/O ADS/INTERRUPTIONS.
 
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Online wraper

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2018, 12:03:30 am »
Ask Apple, they've been paying ~ no taxes for decades. And Starbucks. And Google. And... Ahh, no, you're not big enough to be friends with Mr. Junkers, are you?
They dodge taxes on their profit, not customs duty.
 
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Offline CopperCone

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2018, 12:03:32 am »
I think that treez is from the future. His designs require components that do not yet exist.
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2018, 12:04:39 am »
Ask Apple, they've been paying ~ no taxes for decades. And Starbucks. And Google. And... Ahh, no, you're not big enough to be friends with Mr. Junkers, are you?
Yes, but you have to make sure you legally don't pay taxes. If you evade them like a common schmuck you'll smacked around like a common thug.

Strictly speaking they do have to pay taxes, they just store money overseas before getting to the point of paying. Actually bringing it to the US would be costly, until Apple made a deal of course. I guess it makes sense that the richest company in the world gets a 50 billion dollar discount.

https://gizmodo.com/apple-successfully-avoids-50-billion-in-american-taxes-1822189738
 
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Offline CopperCone

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2018, 12:07:12 am »
I think that there are alot of people in goverments that are looking to shake down companies doing this kind of thing. They might figure out some way to say you are violating a law rather then just close the loop hole.

Hard to plead being negligent when you make threads like this. I doubt you will sound particularly earnest if you are questioned about this in the future.
 
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Online GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2018, 12:12:13 am »
I guess it makes sense that the richest company in the world gets a 50 billion dollar discount.
For sure, of course. But poor me I bought a little property 3 years ago for 60k€ and had to pay 20k€ in taxes. So, yeah.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 12:42:34 am by GeorgeOfTheJungle »
http://brave.com <- BETTER AND FASTER BROWSER. YOUTUBE W/O ADS/INTERRUPTIONS.
 
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Offline MT

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2018, 12:25:48 am »
I think "treez" provides the highest level of comedy and entertainment on this forum by far. I think everyone must wait with eager anticipation to find out what kind of crazy thing he is going to ask about next.

Ahh, yes i just realized it is the guy who thanks everybody for everything all the time guy! ^-^

treez are actually right loads of UK companies are crocks tax avoids and other scams!
 
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Online GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2018, 01:08:02 am »
They dodge taxes on their profit, not customs duty.

In the end it's the same: Look Tim, dear, you'll just pay this/here and we'll discount that/there, see my friend? Ohh, cool, thanks Jean-Claude. And Mario Puzo wrote "Michael, I had other plans for you"  >:D
« Last Edit: July 23, 2018, 11:43:24 am by GeorgeOfTheJungle »
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Online wraper

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2018, 01:18:41 am »
They dodge taxes on their profit, not customs duty.

In the end it's the same: Look Tim, dear, you'll just pay this/here and we'll discount that/there, see my friend? And Mario Puzo wrote "Michael, I had other plans for you"  >:D
It's completely different beast. You can legally shift your profits abroad somewhere where you don't need to pay high taxes. You cannot legally not pay customs duties to the country into which you are importing goods.
Also there is a type of fraud to dodge VAT when company which bought stuff asks for VAT return but company which sold stuff goes poof before paying VAT to the country. That very likely in the end will put you in jail as well.
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2018, 02:21:51 am »
It's completely different beast. You can legally shift your profits abroad somewhere where you don't need to pay high taxes. You cannot legally not pay customs duties to the country into which you are importing goods.
Also there is a type of fraud to dodge VAT when company which bought stuff asks for VAT return but company which sold stuff goes poof before paying VAT to the country. That very likely in the end will put you in jail as well.
I assume there are loopholes, but those are unlikely to be available to mortals.
 
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Offline Nusa

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #29 on: July 15, 2018, 02:36:30 am »
If I understand this correctly, the OP is literally asking us how to set up a smuggling company to knowingly defraud his own government? Simultaneously asking how to avoid customs, stating that customs doesn't care, and stating that everyone does it?

As I recall, this is the same poster that has in the past complained about legal requirements in the lighting industry that the competition does not always follow.

Ironic, no?
 
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Offline CJay

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2018, 09:28:33 am »
There are legal ways (morally and ethically dubious) of reducing the sum you pay to the R part but the C part of HMRC is a part you do not want to mess with, they have some heavy duty powers which can exceed those of the police and if you find yourself in their gaze you will wish you had never met your dodgy friend. 

See if you can find customs seizure auctions, you may discover some very interesting things about their powers from the pictures of the auction lots.
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2018, 09:36:38 am »
If I understand this correctly, the OP is literally asking us how to set up a smuggling company to knowingly defraud his own government? Simultaneously asking how to avoid customs, stating that customs doesn't care, and stating that everyone does it?

As I recall, this is the same poster that has in the past complained about legal requirements in the lighting industry that the competition does not always follow.

Ironic, no?
I think he's asking for loopholes, which are almost by definition legal. They could be considered immoral, though.
 
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Online Zero999

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2018, 11:09:56 am »
The 292V remark was a joke about another thread.

Yes, anything imported into the UK, from China incurs the same tariff charges, as any other part of the EU, until Brexit, which might change that.

Of course everything you import has to comply with the safety and environmental relevant standards. If a child is injured or killed, because their toy car caught fire, because it didn't have a thermal fuse in the battery charger or the battery caught fire, then it's your fault and you can face manslaughter charges.
 
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Offline dmills

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2018, 11:29:05 am »
And the ONE THING that trading standards **ALWAYS** have time for is safety problems in toys, other things not so much, but you sell a toy with a fire risk or small removable part, or plastic that contains something it shouldn't, and you will get all kinds of stick for it.

Product recalls and destroying all the product (as WEEE) will kill any profit you might have made, and if the customs get involved (And trading standards are quite happy to ask them to become involved) you could be looking at BIG personal liability.



Regards, Dan.
 
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Offline treez

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2018, 07:28:42 pm »
Thankyou but the regulations of safety started out well, but then got corrupted by big corporations who use them to shut smaller rivals out of the market.



..just look at grenfell, it was started by a fridge, but the fridge maker never got fined.......and why , if it really is all about safety, then why is the faulty schematic not published on the web so we can all see how not to do it....i guess they relly dont care if grenfell happens again.
 

Offline dmills

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2018, 07:44:49 pm »
That fridge probably complied with the rules (Which are being looked at fairly closely), the cladding actually probably also complied for certain uses, that one maybe, maybe not.

The lesson to take away is that rules are specific, and that provided you comply with them they act as a somewhat useful shield in court.

If you are looking to import a million quids worth (at wholesale) of toys, spending 25k or so to get TUV or UL or Intertek or whoever to certify them as compliant with the appropriate standards should not be a big deal, providing they do comply with the standards. 

Seriously, certification costs are just not a big deal if you are doing that sort of volume.

I work for a small UK owned electronics company, turnover <£10M (The kind you keep saying don't exist anymore), and this stuff has never stopped us yet. 

Regards, Dan.
 
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Offline mac.6

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #36 on: July 17, 2018, 12:48:23 pm »
Look at TÜV/PIP scandal, still not resolved in court after years of various trials...
 
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Online edy

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #37 on: July 17, 2018, 04:14:35 pm »
Here's a different approach. If the only way you can make money on product X is by scamming the system, perhaps it is not worth doing this business. You should be able to still make a reasonable enough profit and sell enough product, safely, abiding by all regulations and government import regulations, etc... to make it worthwhile. Perhaps sell a different toy, one with added value? One with larger margins? Or market it to a different demographic or in combination with a kit or to people who want to self-assemble?

You shouldn't have to put your life (or your customers) in danger for this business. If price is the only thing you can possibly compete on and your competition is already doing all this illegal mumbo-jumbo, then you'd be better off whistleblowing the competition than joining their ranks. Just my $0.02.
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Offline CJay

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #38 on: July 17, 2018, 06:14:09 pm »
Honestly Treez?

Using the deaths of 72 people to attempt to justify your tawdry little scam?

Beneath contempt.

 
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Offline In Vacuo Veritas

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #39 on: July 18, 2018, 05:35:13 pm »
A Chinese friend ( he was a coursemate on my electronics degree course)

I assume he, unlike you, completed his?
 
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Online Zero999

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #40 on: July 18, 2018, 06:18:57 pm »
Thankyou but the regulations of safety started out well, but then got corrupted by big corporations who use them to shut smaller rivals out of the market.



..just look at grenfell, it was started by a fridge, but the fridge maker never got fined.......and why , if it really is all about safety, then why is the faulty schematic not published on the web so we can all see how not to do it....i guess they relly dont care if grenfell happens again.
Because it's not proven the fridge was faulty and even if it was, it would have only been one burnt out flat, if it wasn't for the dangerous cladding.
 
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Offline Koen

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #41 on: July 18, 2018, 08:35:36 pm »
as an electronics engineer i have designed a vast array of useless items which wouldnt sell at a profit...

Haven't we all, treez. Haven't we all...
 
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Offline treez

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #42 on: July 19, 2018, 07:18:22 am »
Quote
Honestly Treez?
Using the deaths of 72 people to attempt to justify your tawdry little scam?
Beneath contempt.
Sorry but i believe we must talk of such things in order to have it not happen again.
We would not  allow cars that could catch fire.
I was just pointing out that the elec regs have often been used by the large corporations to make it more difficult for smaller competitors to get into the market....which is horrendous when you consider that this is really adding to causing tragedys like Grenfell.
 

Online Zero999

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #43 on: July 19, 2018, 07:42:11 am »
Quote
Honestly Treez?
Using the deaths of 72 people to attempt to justify your tawdry little scam?
Beneath contempt.
Sorry but i believe we must talk of such things in order to have it not happen again.
We would not  allow cars that could catch fire.
I was just pointing out that the elec regs have often been used by the large corporations to make it more difficult for smaller competitors to get into the market....which is horrendous when you consider that this is really adding to causing tragedys like Grenfell.
I can see your point. The worst thing is lots of standards aren't free and have to be purchased for silly money, which makes it more costly for smaller businesses and individuals to comply. I think standards are quite often revised, just to sell more and make money. All safety standards should be freely available and paid for by taxes, gathered from those who can afford them.
 
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Offline CJay

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #44 on: July 19, 2018, 07:48:24 am »
Quote
Honestly Treez?
Using the deaths of 72 people to attempt to justify your tawdry little scam?
Beneath contempt.
Sorry but i believe we must talk of such things in order to have it not happen again.
We would not  allow cars that could catch fire.
I was just pointing out that the elec regs have often been used by the large corporations to make it more difficult for smaller competitors to get into the market....which is horrendous when you consider that this is really adding to causing tragedys like Grenfell.

The enquiry into Grenfell is ongoing and the outcome of that is highly likely to lead to prosecution for those found liable so your argument is complete bullshit, a pathetic attempt to justify your flouting of safety regulations and by extension, your attempt at tax fraud.
 
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Online Zero999

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #45 on: July 19, 2018, 09:00:39 am »
Quote
Honestly Treez?
Using the deaths of 72 people to attempt to justify your tawdry little scam?
Beneath contempt.
Sorry but i believe we must talk of such things in order to have it not happen again.
We would not  allow cars that could catch fire.
I was just pointing out that the elec regs have often been used by the large corporations to make it more difficult for smaller competitors to get into the market....which is horrendous when you consider that this is really adding to causing tragedys like Grenfell.

The enquiry into Grenfell is ongoing and the outcome of that is highly likely to lead to prosecution for those found liable so your argument is complete bullshit, a pathetic attempt to justify your flouting of safety regulations and by extension, your attempt at tax fraud.
I think it's too soon to make such judgements about the original poster. I think he's most likely naive. I hope he takes our advice about his so-called friend being a scammer. I think treez will be the one who ends up in trouble if he goes along with this as his "friend" will know how to keep himself out of trouble and keep all the money.
 
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Offline treez

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #46 on: July 19, 2018, 09:18:57 am »
I must admit, to this day, i wonder how what a witness (the woman living opposite the flat  where the fire started) saw as a  "small fire in the kitchen", ended up with flames licking up out of the front room window, when there is a wall in the way, and many metres of distance. Presumably the window of the front room was closed when the fire started...or you would hope so.
Apparently, according to the witness, the occupant had managed to have time to  pack his bags and had them out on the landing.

I hope they get the full details, so this cannot happen again.

I mean, surely if you were in there you would flip the breaker to the kitchen equipment, then toss a damp rag over the "small fire".

Actually i suspect this may all be irrelevant after Brexit, as i suspect that the UK government will  charge  (and directly enforce) its own tariffs on Chinese imports to UK. I believe  that many UK electronics companies are only surviving because of the Chinese imports that they bring in......and believe that  such companies will close down and go bust as soon as Brexit comes in.
 

Offline MT

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #47 on: July 19, 2018, 12:36:02 pm »
Honestly Treez?
Using the deaths of 72 people to attempt to justify your tawdry little scam?
Beneath contempt.

And the difference of UK as a nation for their little tawdry scam invading Iraq killing 100 000+ is?
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 12:38:22 pm by MT »
 
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Online Zero999

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #48 on: July 20, 2018, 03:29:14 pm »
I must admit, to this day, i wonder how what a witness (the woman living opposite the flat  where the fire started) saw as a  "small fire in the kitchen", ended up with flames licking up out of the front room window, when there is a wall in the way, and many metres of distance. Presumably the window of the front room was closed when the fire started...or you would hope so.
Why do you hope the window would be closed?

This fire happened in the summer and most UK homes don't have air conditioning, so it's perfectly reasonable to expect the window to be open. Another possibility is they were cooking and don't have an extractor fan, so left the window open to vent the fumes.

It's be quite hot recently, so I've been leaving all the windows open overnight and closing them first thing in the morning. That way the cooler air is trapped inside the building, which has fairly good insulation. When I get home from work, it's nice and cool in my house and I wait until long after sunset before I open any windows.

I've never understood why some people leave their windows open during the day and close them at night. I understand some people are concerned about security, but my windows can be locked, just open enough to allow a good airflow, but not enough to let anyone in.
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #49 on: July 20, 2018, 06:48:53 pm »
I can see your point. The worst thing is lots of standards aren't free and have to be purchased for silly money, which makes it more costly for smaller businesses and individuals to comply. I think standards are quite often revised, just to sell more and make money. All safety standards should be freely available and paid for by taxes, gathered from those who can afford them.
Making safety standards paid for is one of the most backwards things. Not only does it artificially increase the price of entry, it also makes it impossible for third parties to check whether the standard is adhered to.
 
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Offline treez

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #50 on: July 22, 2018, 09:26:56 am »
Quote
Honestly Treez?

Using the deaths of 72 people to attempt to justify your tawdry little scam?

Beneath contempt.

Thankyou CJay…I admire your concern over the tragedy of the Grenfell Tower Fire of London.
Now that you have this concern, will you now  join the campaign to find out what  REALLY happened?...so that   this such  tragedy never happens again?...……….the woman living opposite this flat (Maryam Adam) saw a “small fire”  in the kitchen…at this time, she noticed that someone had packed several suitcases and had them out on the landing…and it was just  a “small fire” at this time……now…how did this “small fire”  then somehow creep  and then get out the window to the cladding?...............and why did people have time to pack belongings?......why didn’t he just fight the “small fire”?….it must have been a “small fire” for  quite some time…….he could surely  easily have fought the fire.

It actually transpires that the flat (where the fire started) had had double glazing installed, and  air gaps were somehow left  between the frame and walls, and that some flammable sealant had been used to  in some way plug the gaps. The fridge also had had some  kind of “repair” done to it. The fridge also was placed right next to the window…..hmmmmm
The man, whilst warning people,  was heard not just shouting “fire fire”……..but actually shouting that his “fridge has caught fire”


Why did  people start packing bags when it was just a small fire?........

I won’t say what I suspect…but i beg you to hear this……Grenfell Tower  exists in a part of London where property prices are higher than virtually anywhere in the world. Grenfell Tower had been flagged up as an “eyesore”, by agencies trading in the super expensive properties in the Kensington area of London…..hence Grenfell was cladded with the now well known cladding, as part of a “gentrification” scheme to make Grenfell Tower less of an eyesore……….Hmmmmm….are you thinking what I am thinking yet? This cladding went up like dynamite and burnt the entire place down.

https://metro.co.uk/2017/06/15/man-whose-flat-started-grenfell-blaze-packed-luggage-before-raising-alarm-6710853/

https://metro.co.uk/2017/06/14/resident-of-grenfell-tower-flat-where-fire-started-packed-own-stuff-before-warning-neighbours-6709573/

https://metro.co.uk/2017/06/15/grenfell-tower-fire-witness-claims-blaze-wasnt-just-an-accident-6711054/

Also needed is a full electrical analysis of what electrically started the fridge fire, and this to be published and made freely available to everyone on the web....because 100's of similar fridge freezer fires start every year in uk.......are you now  joining the campaign to see these results achieved?

Also, where has "Maryam Adam" gone?...she was the first witness to the fire, and lived in the flat opposite...there were partial  stories from her in all the media after the fire...but now she has just vanished.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 08:13:09 pm by treez »
 

Online Gyro

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #51 on: July 22, 2018, 11:40:19 am »
Also, where has "Maryam Adam" gone?...she was the first witness to the fire, and lived in the flat opposite...there were partial  stories from her in all the media after the fire...but now she has just vanished.

treez, that you should be quoting unsubstantiated year old stories from the Metro and pushing your own conspiracy theories involving the deaths of 72 people, while a proper formal inquiry is taking place to get to the truth, is bad taste in the extreme.  :palm:


What on earth has this to do with your proposal of illegally import, presumably Li-Po powered, Chinese toys with no intention of obtaining safety approvals? and before you say it again...
Thankyou my Friend, but i am an electronics engineer, so i will be able to take the toy cars to pieces and see if they are going to be safe or not.

We wont  bother getting approvals, because nobody who buys the cars is going to bother checking whether  they are approved or not. All they care about is getting them cheap and that they are not going to burst into flames.

... from the threads you have started on this forum, I wouldn't trust you to personally assess the safety of a paper bag!

Your tenuous linking of, and arguments on, the two subjects is completely incongruous.

Finally PLEASE don't thank this post! [Edit:  :palm:]
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 06:17:35 pm by Gyro »
Chris

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Offline treez

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #52 on: July 22, 2018, 08:02:04 pm »
Quote
Finally PLEASE don't thank this post!
Thanks but no i double thank your post, for your great concern for the Grenfell tragedy.

Thing is, most of the family of those tragically killed in Grenfell, and their friends, are asking the questions that i am asking right now, and they want them asked right now, they dont want to wait for the "enquiry".
Seriously,  there should be a uk government funded enquiry into fridge fires, as there are 300 of them per year in uk, and many result in fatalities....i bet this problem is solveable.......so many have shown your great concern over Grenfell, and have just fallen short of accusing me of starting it........now we can all show our true humanity by writing to our MP and getting this fridge fire study done.

If somebody writes out a letter here on this subject , and posts it here, so we can copy/paste it to our MP, then i am grateful, and accept VERY THANKFULLY and gratefully , any further insults relating to Grenfell tragedy directed toward my person....i want to stop future Grenfells.

I have done a heck of a lot of electrical product inflammability tests.......and  for a reasonably protected product, its usually incredibly difficult to get a fire started with an electrical product.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 08:11:25 pm by treez »
 

Offline Nusa

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #53 on: July 22, 2018, 08:33:23 pm »
You need to chill and take it to another forum, preferably one that's got a larger UK audience, instead of this one. Even though you started the thread, it's still not appropriate to derail it with a political action campaign.
 
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Online Gyro

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #54 on: July 22, 2018, 09:00:00 pm »
Whilst I appreciate your zeal in trying to highlight a potential issue with refrigerators, I'm afraid I can't add any specific instances to your call. The statistics appear to be known and I am sure, must be under separate investigation. I know that the similar issue with tumble driers has lead to product recall and remedial action, albeit slow and inadequate. It's hard to know what further can be done about that as it has already been raised in Parliament and committee.

My issue is with you muddying the waters of the Grenfell inquiry by dragging up unsubstantiated press stories of luggage packing, missing persons, etc.


I still fail to see any connection between Grenfell and your proposal of illegally importing toys from China (the subject of your OP) and by your own admission, failing to get them appropriately safety tested. I don't see how this can possibly help in reducing instances of fire in the home. You may be in a position to visually inspect them, but you are not able to assess the quality of component parts - you still haven't clarified whether they are Lithium cell powered and, if so, the charging method. Simple inspection would not reveal the use of parts of dubious origin and manufacture. A proper approval test would require a proper documentation and approvals of the parts used.

I'm sure we all remember the fiasco of spontaneously combusting imported 'hover-boards' a year or so ago and the resulting potentially lethal consequences. They weren't properly tested either. Please don't express such outrage about Grenfell, whilst at the same time putting yourself, to whatever degree, in the 'hover-board' camp.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 09:03:22 pm by Gyro »
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Offline treez

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #55 on: July 23, 2018, 08:14:32 pm »
Thanks, i am sure you all realise that i am not in the business of bringing Chinese goods to the UK market...neither do i have any interest in  doing it.
Even if i was i guess i would be going secret squirrel, and not publishing my intent here.
But i am interested in how common it is, and how much money is being made in the middle-manning  of Chinese products through UK ports.
Are we taking  middle man profits of 100's of thousands, millions, tens of millions, or billions each year?, over the whole of UK's large  middle-man fraternity?
« Last Edit: July 24, 2018, 01:00:07 am by treez »
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #56 on: July 23, 2018, 08:25:47 pm »
THANKFULLY and gratefully , any further insults relating to Grenfell tragedy directed toward my person....i want to stop future Grenfells.
If that is your aim then become a building materials inspector. The sole reason the Grenfell tower turned into an inferno is that alterations to the building turned it into a death trap. These kind of high rise buildings have been designed to contain a fire into one appartment so people can escape. Unfortunately some idiots covered the outside with extremely flamable material which spread the fire on the outside of the building quickly.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline IanB

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #57 on: July 23, 2018, 10:26:51 pm »
But i am interested in how common it is, and how much money is being made in the middle-manning  of Chinese products through UK ports, (without paying the EU tariff) and then onto UK and mainland europe as if they were made in the UK.

Since the UK is part of the EU, it follows that UK ports are EU ports and EU import regulations apply. I have no idea why you think that importing into the UK can "bypass" the EU?
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: Wish to bring electric toy cars to market
« Reply #58 on: July 23, 2018, 10:35:33 pm »
But i am interested in how common it is, and how much money is being made in the middle-manning  of Chinese products through UK ports, (without paying the EU tariff) and then onto UK and mainland europe as if they were made in the UK.

Since the UK is part of the EU, it follows that UK ports are EU ports and EU import regulations apply. I have no idea why you think that importing into the UK can "bypass" the EU?

I've highlighted your misapprehension.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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