EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
General => General Technical Chat => Topic started by: ocset on June 15, 2019, 08:46:56 pm
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Hi,
We wish to start employing Chinese Electronics Engineers at our UK based lighting company. They will design with cheap Chinese components, and the products will get produced in China. We will declare that the products are “British designed and built”. No one will know otherwise. We will sweep the market, putting all other UK lighting companys out of the way.
We have a contact electronics company in China who will supply the Chinese Electronics engineers to us. They will work mostly from China, but will sometimes visit us in UK. They will help us to set up a “stooge” UK design and manufacture set up in UK, so that we can invite customers round and convince them that we really are a “UK design and build” company. They won’t suss it out. They wont have a clue what we’re up to.
Anyway, what we would really like to do, when the Chinese engineers come over, is get these Chinese engineers to totally leave China and simply start working directly for us, so that we no longer have to pay the Chinese company for their services. Ie, get the Chinese engineers to come and live in UK as UK citizens, and work for us.
Is it possible to do this?....i mean, is it difficult for a Chinese engineer in China to just “up and leave “ China and start working in uk?
If not, then why not?...what would happen to these Chinese Engineers?…would the Chinese government recall them back to China? If they did get recalled, then so what, couldn’t they just ignore the Chinese government, and stay in UK?
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Good luck with VISAs and all the legal requirements to HIRE so many people from China to work for you.
Good luck actually PAYING them UK salaries and finding them places to rent or buy houses in UK and all that crap.
Good luck doing this without the networking you have in China.
Anyone can look at public records and see who you're sponsoring to come in country or how many employees you have and all that crap... lots of money you'd save you're gonna spending in plane tickets.
If you think the actual humans are the reason why stuff is cheap in China then you're more of a moron than all your posts pictured you so far.
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Hello my dear friend, we specialize in supply of very experienced chinese engineers with many qualities. Young, tall, very educated man for your services. No family, no wife, nobody to worry about them is of much convenience. Please contact me for quote. We guarantee our service or money is paid back.
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I bet your friend can help you with that. You are both going to jail, and this forum will be an Exhibit A anyway.
But seriously, it is not clear why they would want to go to UK. In China they have a decent job security. Can you guarantee that in the UK? Does not sound like it.
Governments have no power to "recall" people. They can however detain them once they go back to China on business or vacation. If they committed some crimes, they can be detained and extradited, of course. But nobody is going to do that for engineers.
Getting UK visa is your primary concern here as far as governments interfering with your cunning plan goes.
Also, you are putting too much stock in to "Made in UK" or "Made in US" label. In a real world nobody cares.
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According to what you wrote in other treads, the only employees your company can afford are uneducated monkeys who will work for banana.
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We wish to start employing Chinese Electronics Engineers at our UK based lighting company. They will design with cheap Chinese components, and the products will get produced in China. We will declare that the products are “British designed and built”. No one will know otherwise. We will sweep the market, putting all other UK lighting companys out of the way.
What can I say, that business model works fine for Apple >:D
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Yes, treez is a little blunt but full of sound ideas. He'd make an excellent disruptive CEO provided he had a PR company to smooth his public appearances.
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I do not know UK rules and laws esp now you're exiting the EU everything will probably change.
Only can say that in my country Chinese Restaurants desperately need and seek authentic chinese chefs because they don't teach the proper techniques (work 16 hours sleep 6 hours ) in our country and that for minimum wages ;)
Anyway they need a special reason why dutch cooks can not cook and are allowed to hire a limited set of cooks because there are no dutch cooks. If there are EE's in the UK and there are unemployed EEs in the UK, you have no excuse why you need chinese EE's.
BTW how are you going to solve the culture and language barriers? This is going to be a fun experience, please keep the topic updated.
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China has a large and very capable engineering talent pool, a gigantic manufacturing base, and an almost limitless supply chain.
To be capable to manage all of these resources SUCCESSFULLY, for a small business is no small feat.
Hint: start learning Chinese.
You can also start reading Bunnie’s blog. He has dedicated many pages describing the challenge.
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Oh BTW chinese labour is no longer cheap.
Three years ago I saw the salaries of our Shenzhen SW colleagues.
They were 20k€ per year higher on average then ours. My manager earned less :-DD
In 2006 salaries were half of ours so in ten years time they went sky rocket.
Actually I am waiting for many jobs to return to the US and EU, if production costs and labour will rise as the SW jobs did.
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I see your point...ive met Chinese EEs working in UK...in various companies...they managed to break free from China and come here......surely any others can too?...as long as the pay is enough
Simple...all they do is buy a plane ticket and wave goodbye to China forever....you agree?
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Instead of taking chinese lessons, instead of putting your trust in random connections, marry a business-savvy chinese wife who will handle this side of operation ?
The possibilities are endless for the night is long and full of bright street lights.
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Thanks, ive met Chinese EEs working in UK...in various companies...they managed to break free from China and come here......surely any others can too?
Simple...all they do is buy a plane ticket and wave goodbye to China forever....you agree?
How about a passport, working permit etc.
Not so simple. Also we have had our share of industrial espionage. So established companies are carefull who to hire.
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I think people here are being a bit over the top. He's talking about the Chinese engineers mostly working remotely from China, with only a few visiting the UK, which would require visas, work permits etc.
The problem is going to be getting decent engineers, providing a proper specifications and contracts for them to meet, otherwise you'll get utter crap, without any comeback.
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treez, I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
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Actually I am waiting for many jobs to return to the US and EU, if production costs and labour will rise as the SW jobs did.
Dream on my dear friend, dream on. They will go to Vietnam, India, probably Africa in the future but will never come back.
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Oh BTW chinese labour is no longer cheap.
Three years ago I saw the salaries of our Shenzhen SW colleagues.
They were 20k€ per year higher on average then ours. My manager earned less :-DD
In 2006 salaries were half of ours so in ten years time they went sky rocket.
Actually I am waiting for many jobs to return to the US and EU, if production costs and labour will rise as the SW jobs did.
I can confirm how salaries in China have been rising as has the standard of living,
And many jobs that went to China are returning although not to workers but to automation. In other words, the manual job that went to China has now returned to be done by a robot that was made by engineers who make good money.
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So... you plan to do what pretty much every crappy electronics company does? Use cheap labour, cheap components, have a high failure rate and make sure that no one wants to buy those products? Good plan. :-+
Those other companies who design and build good quality products, don't lie and try to deceive their customers and stand by their brands must have it all wrong.
I personally avoid products which boast the "Designed and built in..." disclaimer as if it's some kind of selling point. It's an indicator of poor quality products and that the company is deliberately trying to hide something.
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LOL…
Have you lot not been trolled enough by treez in the past?
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Shh, it is fun for the weekend.
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Ok. I will shut up now. :-X
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:popcorn:
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Hi,
[Humour]
My mother used to tell me, 'Money doesn't grow on trees'
It seem that good advice doesn't grow on treez as well.
[Humour/]
The USA has an H-1B Visa program, specifically for bring highly skilled labour to the USA on a temporary basis.
Many of these H-1B engineers are employed in Silicon Valley.
Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa)
There may be a similar visa program in the EU.
Regards,
Jay_Diddy_B
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We wish to start employing Chinese Electronics Engineers at our UK based lighting company. They will design with cheap Chinese components, and the products will get produced in China. We will declare that the products are “British designed and built”. No one will know otherwise.
If you are prepared to lie about the "British built" aspect, why bother to make the "British designed" kind of true? Just import some junk directly and put fake labels on it. Good luck.
:horse:
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Hi,
We wish to start employing Chinese Electronics Engineers at our UK based lighting company. They will design with cheap Chinese components, and the products will get produced in China. We will declare that the products are “British designed and built”. No one will know otherwise. We will sweep the market, putting all other UK lighting companys out of the way.
We have a contact electronics company in China who will supply the Chinese Electronics engineers to us. They will work mostly from China, but will sometimes visit us in UK. They will help us to set up a “stooge” UK design and manufacture set up in UK, so that we can invite customers round and convince them that we really are a “UK design and build” company. They won’t suss it out. They wont have a clue what we’re up to.
Anyway, what we would really like to do, when the Chinese engineers come over, is get these Chinese engineers to totally leave China and simply start working directly for us, so that we no longer have to pay the Chinese company for their services. Ie, get the Chinese engineers to come and live in UK as UK citizens, and work for us.
Is it possible to do this?....i mean, is it difficult for a Chinese engineer in China to just “up and leave “ China and start working in uk?
If not, then why not?...what would happen to these Chinese Engineers?…would the Chinese government recall them back to China? If they did get recalled, then so what, couldn’t they just ignore the Chinese government, and stay in UK?
Captain here, good plan but overcomplicated, just use an egg and a pan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_I3NuEa9PQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_I3NuEa9PQ)
Captain flies away
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Not so simple. Also we have had our share of industrial espionage. So established companies are carefull who to hire.
Thanks, luckily for us thats not a problem....our products are bog standard lighting power supplies....the stuff that China already knows inside out and can churn out for next-to-nothing.
We wouldnt care if our schematics went all over the web....its ensuring all the trivial little bits are right, so as to reduce failure rate...the general design work is easy.
Its getting a good customer base thats the key in UK lighting.
I reckon there must be 10's of thousands of Chinese "Low power lighting type power supply" design engineers in China who are out of work, and would love to come over to UK and get payed some decent dosh?
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;D
I get the impression your manager had too much too drink for this plan to come up in whats left of his mind.
Besides the chinese engineers probably design with chinese yellebean components, no-one here knows them or how long they will last.
I bet that if the low priced chinese led manufacturers had to obey the same harsh european guarantee , QC, CE, EMC and other consumer return of goods policies they would not dare to ship a single unit.
And those that would be able to comply would be just as expensive as the european manufacturers, or heavily government subsidized or running out of business soon.
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According to what you wrote in other treads, the only employees your company can afford are uneducated monkeys who will work for banana.
Thats quite a neat deal if unemployment and starvation under TWO dictate are the option!
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Here's an idea. You need to go to Shanghai, find some engineers, invite them for a drink, get them rather drunk, and give them a shilling. In the morning, when they awake with a hangover you'll have them on a cargo ship to the UK. We'll call this practice "Londoning".
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I am shocked with what I read. First I thought this was ironic/funny, but now I understand that this is what is really in the mind of treez and his company.
So the idea is:
1) Cheat on the customers: charge them for UK designed and manufactured products, when they are really designed and manufactured as cheap as possible in China.
2) Create a pretend show room to simulate that products are really designed in UK, when they are not.
3) Cheat on business partners: get them to send their engineers and then hire those engineers.
4) The best of it all is to write about this on a public forum, asking how hard it would be to get those chinese engineers...
Nobody needs a complany like this.
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Kind regards,
Vitor
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We wish to start employing Chinese Electronics Engineers at our UK based lighting company. They will design with cheap Chinese components, and the products will get produced in China. We will declare that the products are “British designed and built”. No one will know otherwise. We will sweep the market, putting all other UK lighting companys out of the way.
What can I say, that business model works fine for Apple >:D
That’s not Apple’s business model. Apple uses expensive components and does almost all of the engineering in-house in USA. Apple has outsourced the factories, nothing more.
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What you'll end up getting is a bunch of career criminals who sit on their asses doing nothing all day and blackmail you for more money to send to their bosses at home.
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One day I really hope to see this:
Treez is an idiot.
The following users thanked this post: treez
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One day I really hope to see this:
Treez is an idiot.
The following users thanked this post: treez
I am fairly certain that I have called treez an idiot in a reply before (in some other thread of his) and that he thanked that post, too...
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Very few people from China can barely read English, Will be a huge communication problem, And the few ones that can do that does not accept China's low salary
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Very few people from China can barely read English, Will be a huge communication problem, And the few ones that can do that does not accept China's low salary
Speaking English well in China gets you a job in a multinational, and the pay can be pretty good.
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This was probably meant to be posted on April 1st.
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I am shocked with what I read. First I thought this was ironic/funny, but now I understand that this is what is really in the mind of treez and his company.
So the idea is:
1) Cheat on the customers: charge them for UK designed and manufactured products, when they are really designed and manufactured as cheap as possible in China.
2) Create a pretend show room to simulate that products are really designed in UK, when they are not.
3) Cheat on business partners: get them to send their engineers and then hire those engineers.
4) The best of it all is to write about this on a public forum, asking how hard it would be to get those chinese engineers...
Nobody needs a complany like this.
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Kind regards,
Vitor
These unfortunately seem fairly common business practices.
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That’s not Apple’s business model. Apple uses expensive components and does almost all of the engineering in-house in USA. Apple has outsourced the factories, nothing more.
You have never been to Silicon Valley, have you? They hire thousands of immigrants from countries like India and China.
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That’s not Apple’s business model. Apple uses expensive components and does almost all of the engineering in-house in USA. Apple has outsourced the factories, nothing more.
You have never been to Silicon Valley, have you? They hire thousands of immigrants from countries like India and China.
I didn’t say they don’t hire foreign engineers. But Apple doesn’t outsource the engineering (outsourcing means having another company do it for you), and they don’t use cheap components, which are key parts of the business model you enumerated.
And yes, I’ve been to Silicon Valley (including inside the original Apple HQ, and not just with a guest pass). Have you? ;)
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Well, I have interned at a company you have likely heard about if you have been at Apple.
What I referred to was the paragraph I quoted and thread title, which suggested employment of engineers from China in UK to design products cheaply produced in China. I admittedly haven't read OP's business plan in detail nor the follow-ups :P, he posts all sorts of crazy stuff and AFAIK nothing ever comes of it.
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One day I really hope to see this:
Treez is an idiot.
The following users thanked this post: treez
Easily solved. Anyone who thanks this very post is an idiot.
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Sometimes the big advantage of producing locally is when you have a problem with parts or processes, you get it solved quicker, replacement parts can be there faster and you lose less time and money - and that is even before product and service life cycle. They all speak the same language (not so much of a problem recently, as more and more people learn english as a second language).
Even if your problem solving skills only consist of assertions of guilt, you at least have the disproof faster, as a manufacturer usually has the test equipment to show if his part is according to spec. Trying to sort this out via mail or a 12h time difference is just hopeless.
And it probably does not work to just take one factor and place it somewhere else.
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treez idea is like 20 years too late :horse:
the local competition may be operating this way already :P
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This was probably meant to be posted on April 1st.
Oldtimers remember "the year September never ended", sometimes known as "eternal September".
Sometimes it feels like we now have "the year April 1st never ended" :(
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One day I really hope to see this:
Treez is an idiot.
The following users thanked this post: treez
I am fairly certain that I have called treez an idiot in a reply before (in some other thread of his) and that he thanked that post, too...
The strategy of liking all responses seems to work for him as his threads are very popular. I think some people only respond to his threads, just to see their number of thanked posts increase. :-DD
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One day I really hope to see this:
Treez is an idiot.
The following users thanked this post: treez
I am fairly certain that I have called treez an idiot in a reply before (in some other thread of his) and that he thanked that post, too...
Ditto. Well, I doubt I actually called him an idiot since in this forum that would be ... ungentlemanly.
Nonetheless, if someone read some of my responses to him and asked me if I thought he was an idiot, I would probably reply "You might think that; I could not possibly comment".
There are three, I think, forum members that when I see they have started a topic, I have a strong suspicion that the topic will be useful only for amusement when I'm very bored. No, I'm not going to name them.
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One day I really hope to see this:
Treez is an idiot.
The following users thanked this post: treez
Well you got your wish. :)
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Hi,
[Humour]
I have friends who are idiots, they were offended by this comment >:D
[Humour/]
More seriously, there are country of origin rules that are laid down in trade descriptions regulations.
They generally require that a percentage of the 'value' is added to the product in the country of origin.
For example you take a PCB from country, a chassis from another country and do final assembly in your country and you might be able to claim made in your country.
By 'value' you say that is where the profit is made.
You see labels, 'made in X assembled from foreign components', which is perfectly truthful.
j - your imaginary friend
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They generally require that a percentage of the 'value' is added to the product in the country of origin.
Then it is easy since all the biggest international "scam" firms do this trick already by claiming their (*) daughter firm owns the patents and that is where 75% of the profit comes from they pay their taxes in (*) which very conveniently is 0%
(*) fill in any tax evasion country of this planet
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Well, it happens, when discussions about quality start to have a political agenda - or are a tangent about protectionism in the first place.
One could argue people trying to reframe the country of origin are only 60% as greedy as the greediest person ever seen.
You could label products "Made with Fairy Dust™"... it really is not a question of origin if experience and craftsmanship were applied in design or production. It helps to know what the use cases are, what the customer expects and how well it can be communicated. Bad communication skills are seldom named as a reason for crappy quality.
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Hi,
We wish to start employing Chinese Electronics Engineers at our UK based lighting company. They will design with cheap Chinese components, and the products will get produced in China. We will declare that the products are “British designed and built”. No one will know otherwise. We will sweep the market, putting all other UK lighting companys out of the way.
We have a contact electronics company in China who will supply the Chinese Electronics engineers to us. They will work mostly from China, but will sometimes visit us in UK. They will help us to set up a “stooge” UK design and manufacture set up in UK, so that we can invite customers round and convince them that we really are a “UK design and build” company. They won’t suss it out. They wont have a clue what we’re up to.
This has got to be a joke, right? If this is a joke, he should say so before the UK authorities decide to put his company on the radar. If it isn't a joke, what a bloody disgrace. Is his lighting company a subsidiary of Volkswagon? :palm:. Maybe lying to customers and deceptive behaviour is legal in the UK. It certainly is not in advanced countries like Australia where there are severe penalties for such behaviour. In any case, no-one should tolerate being told lies to buy a product.
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The "Made in England" thing started in the late 19th century when they were #1 and that was a stamp of desirability in tools, clothes, etc.
Other countries followed suit later and it became a trade thing that countries had to mark goods for export.
That made more sense when things were pretty much made in one place but today we are in a globalized market and raw materials, components, etc. move around.
It makes much less sense to use the "made in Countristan" labels today.
When I see web sites or brick and mortar stores displaying American flags and signs saying "proudly made in the U.S. A" I leave pretty fast because I figure they are owned by the kind of nationalists I do not care for and I do not want to give them my business.
By 'value' you say that is where the profit is made.
Value added and profit are not the same thing at all even if distantly related. Also, bear in mind that VAT is paid by companies, not by products. It is complicated.
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The "Made in England" thing started in the late 19th century when they were #1 and that was a stamp of desirability in tools, clothes, etc.
The way I heard the story was that England demanded Germany to print on all German goods:
"Made in Germany" so the English people would know the inferior quality coming from Germany.
It was a kind of punishment that backfired badly.
That is why "Made in Germany" was the first slogan and only Germany had it on their goods for the longest time.
These days in Germany, we have to add 40% value on imported goods, before it is allowed to be called "Made in Germany"
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When I see web sites or brick and mortar stores displaying American flags and signs saying "proudly made in the U.S. A" I leave pretty fast because I figure they are owned by the kind of nationalists I do not care for and I do not want to give them my business.
Don't worry... usually it is made in Mexico. Happened to me several times when I ordered stuff from websites like that.
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The way I heard the story was that England demanded Germany to print on all German goods:
"Made in Germany" so the English people would know the inferior quality coming from Germany.
It was a kind of punishment that backfired badly.
I had never heard that but this pages tells the same thing: https://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/what-does-the-made-in-label-mean-anymore (https://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/what-does-the-made-in-label-mean-anymore)
I am not sure it totally makes sense. Why require it only from Germany and not from all other foreign countries? And labeling things from Germany and not the ones "Made in England" makes no sense because people would know a marked item was made in Germany but would not know if an unmarked item was made in England or in Brazil. In that case they might prefer the German item.
I think there is probably more to the story.
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The way I heard the story was that England demanded Germany to print on all German goods:
"Made in Germany" so the English people would know the inferior quality coming from Germany.
It was a kind of punishment that backfired badly.
Looks to be correct.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_Germany
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When I see web sites or brick and mortar stores displaying American flags and signs saying "proudly made in the U.S. A" I leave pretty fast because I figure they are owned by the kind of nationalists I do not care for and I do not want to give them my business.
Don't worry... usually it is made in Mexico. Happened to me several times when I ordered stuff from websites like that.
Well, I don't really care that much where the item was made. I just prefer not to give my business to nationalists anywhere. Nationalism is a scourge.
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The way I heard the story was that England demanded Germany to print on all German goods:
"Made in Germany" so the English people would know the inferior quality coming from Germany.
It was a kind of punishment that backfired badly.
That is why "Made in Germany" was the first slogan and only Germany had it on their goods for the longest time.
OK, after reading some more I find this is not so.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchandise_Marks_Act_1887
The Merchandise Marks Act 1887 was an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom that stopped foreign manufacturers from falsely claiming that their goods were British-made and selling them in Britain and Europe on that pretence.
So, Germany was not singled out. The act applied to all imported goods and it makes sense that this is the origin of the "Made in England" label which might not be mandated by the law but certainly favored domestic products.
This is another case of those "stupid laws" like "in West Undershirt, Michigan, it is illegal to tie a crocodile to a lamp post on a Sunday afternoon". And there is no such specific law, just a general law that says pets cannot be tied to street lights any time.
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One day I really hope to see this:
Treez is an idiot.
The following users thanked this post: treez
Imo, you're clearly wrong.
It needs a really good talented personality to be able to survive for "years" in a company that keep paying the wages, probably for doing easy job like repacking and relabeling Chinese imported stuffs, while having fun time playing with hobbyist grade switching power supply circuits at the same time, ... AND ... spent tons of times whining on the net while getting paid.
Not sure you can easily beat that.
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Hi,
We wish to start employing Chinese Electronics Engineers at our UK based lighting company. They will design with cheap Chinese components, and the products will get produced in China. We will declare that the products are “British designed and built”. No one will know otherwise. We will sweep the market, putting all other UK lighting companys out of the way.
We have a contact electronics company in China who will supply the Chinese Electronics engineers to us. They will work mostly from China, but will sometimes visit us in UK. They will help us to set up a “stooge” UK design and manufacture set up in UK, so that we can invite customers round and convince them that we really are a “UK design and build” company. They won’t suss it out. They wont have a clue what we’re up to.
This has got to be a joke, right? If this is a joke, he should say so before the UK authorities decide to put his company on the radar. If it isn't a joke, what a bloody disgrace. Is his lighting company a subsidiary of Volkswagon? :palm:. Maybe lying to customers and deceptive behaviour is legal in the UK. It certainly is not in advanced countries like Australia where there are severe penalties for such behaviour. In any case, no-one should tolerate being told lies to buy a product.
Most company's marketing departments lie to some extent, but whether it's legal or not depends on whether certain red lines have been crossed. Look at the adverts for basic things such as hair shampoo and you'll find they make all sorts of silly claims and marketing gimmicks about the product, which everyone knows are false, but they get away with it.
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Continuing my studies of the "Made in..." labels.
The text of the Merchandise Marks Act 1887 can be found at archive.org (https://archive.org/stream/merchandisemark00payngoog#page/n6/mode/2up) and it is 149 (boring) pages long.
As far as I can tell it did not even mandate "made in anywhere" labels. Rather, the aim was ensure the origin of goods was not misrepresented. It seems many foreign goods were misrepresented as made in England. But also to prevent other misrepresentations. The act even gives an example that a label like "Paris fashion" might induce a buyer to believe he was buying something made in Paris (when it might be made in England) and this would be against the Act.
So, something imported could not be misrepresented as made in England but there was no obligation to mark it. But if a merchant in England sold an item labeled "Made in X" he was protected from accusations of having represented it as made in Y.
A merchant who sold clothes and represented them as "made in Paris" when they were actually made elsewhere, even England, was equally subject to this law.
The act is long and vague and I am sure made several generations of lawyers very rich.
Again, the notion that it was made specifically to protect against imports from Germany seems very spurious. Fake news! :)
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Interesting you say the Merchandise Marks Act 1887 "was" an act of the United Kingdom. Did you find that is has been superseded or replaced with newer legislation? Because otherwise it still would be in force today. Acts of Parliament do not expire (unfortunately).
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I found the source of my earlier explanation on springer.com...
Abstract
The British officials who coined the phrase “Made in Germany” intended it as an insult. In 1887, alarmed at an influx of low-priced German products, the British government required goods imported from Germany to be labeled as such. Back then, Germany was to Britain something like China is to Europe or the United States today. It was an aggressive emerging economy with a large store of cheap labor and ambitions to become an economic superpower. But Britain’s attempt to shield domestic companies from competition backfired. Made in Germany became a synonym for quality.1 The story of how Germany succeeded within a few decades still tells us something about the German mindset and tradition.
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1057/9781137340542_1
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Interesting you say the Merchandise Marks Act 1887 "was" an act of the United Kingdom. Did you find that is has been superseded or replaced with newer legislation? Because otherwise it still would be in force today. Acts of Parliament do not expire (unfortunately).
My guess is that even if not explicitly abrogated it has effectively been superseded by more stringent legislation. In other words, complying with more recent legislation puts you in compliance with the 1887 Act.
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I found the source of my earlier explanation on springer.com...
Abstract
The British officials who coined the phrase “Made in Germany” intended it as an insult. In 1887, alarmed at an influx of low-priced German products, the British government required goods imported from Germany to be labeled as such. Back then, Germany was to Britain something like China is to Europe or the United States today. It was an aggressive emerging economy with a large store of cheap labor and ambitions to become an economic superpower. But Britain’s attempt to shield domestic companies from competition backfired. Made in Germany became a synonym for quality.1 The story of how Germany succeeded within a few decades still tells us something about the German mindset and tradition.
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1057/9781137340542_1
That is a nice legend but I would need to see some facts that support it. I have shown the 1887 Act does nothing of the sort. Legends and myths are repeated all over the place but that does not make them true. Unless and until I can see some incontrovertible evidence I am going with "myth".
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We wish to start employing Chinese Electronics Engineers at our UK based lighting company. They will design with cheap Chinese components, and the products will get produced in China. We will declare that the products are “British designed and built”. No one will know otherwise. We will sweep the market, putting all other UK lighting companys out of the way.
That was quite funny! :-DD
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Acts of Parliament do not expire (unfortunately).
Well, I am not sure legislation that expires automatically is a good idea. In the state of Idaho all regulations expire automatically on a certain date of the year unless renewed explicitly. Then the legislature forgets to do it and.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVW1Tmj7Vz4?t=1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVW1Tmj7Vz4?t=1)
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That is a nice legend but I would need to see some facts that support it. I have shown the 1887 Act does nothing of the sort. Legends and myths are repeated all over the place but that does not make them true. Unless and until I can see some incontrovertible evidence I am going with "myth".
Read this, real named persons with their quotes, and references FROM THAT ERA it is not a legend it is history.
https://supplystudies.com/2017/07/26/the-making-of-made-in/
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Congratulations! This is the best troll post I've read all week. :-DD
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Read this, real named persons with their quotes, and references FROM THAT ERA it is not a legend it is history.
https://supplystudies.com/2017/07/26/the-making-of-made-in/
I have read it and it is very interesting and enlightning. I still don't see that the Act was aimed at Germany. It seems it affected Germany most because they were the largest trader or supplier.
German manufacturers did not sell directly to the British public but to importers/merchants who were the ones trying to pass inferior imported goods as "made in England". The Act was directly aimed against such practices and against the English merchants who engaged in them and it only affected German merchants indirectly.
A German merchant was not obligated to mark his goods for export as "Made in Germany" but the importing merchant was obligated to not misrepresent their origin. He did not even have to say where they were made but he could not say they were "Made in England" when in fact they were not.
Again, reading the act, I see a clear intention of regulating the market with "truth in advertising" and not any intention to single out any country in particular.
It was trying to avoid misrepresentation of the origin of goods and even gives the example that garments made in England should not be made to appear as if made in France, which, I assume, was more desirable.
I guess if you look at it from a certain point you could make the case that it affected Germany most.
And, let us not forget that Germany in the late 19th century was quite a powerhouse. Their steel, chemical and other industries were first rate and in the late 19th century and first half of the 20th century they managed to use all that to give the world quite some headaches for which the world needed quite some aspirin.
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As I read it it was indeed intended to prevent false consumer information.
But as said the consumers were already buying the "inferior" but cheaper priced products and by labeling them they knew that this was the reasonably priced products to purchase instead of switching to the more expensive and doubtfully much better british products.
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Truth in advertising. Yes. But nothing like
The British officials who coined the phrase “Made in Germany” intended it as an insult. In 1887, alarmed at an influx of low-priced German products, the British government required goods imported from Germany to be labeled as such.
British officials did not coin the phrase "Made in Germany" and therefore could not have intended it as an insult. There is no truth at all in that statement. It just makes for a good story even if not true.
If their aim was to decrease imports from Germany they could have, you know, imposed tariffs. Or does anyone think tariffs were very recently invented in America? ;)
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I also think that the word insultis incorrect here.
It was a consumer warning that the specific product was not made "locally"
I do think that the intent was to boost the local economy, that people would buy local products and that it backfired on the politicians since people were buying it already for many years.
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what he hell do you think Chinese people have with lights and switching power supplies that makes them so special? seriously, its a boring field compared to robotics but do you really think Chinese DNA will some how make someone figure out the cheapest parts on mouser?
what kind of crazy bullshit do you think Chinese people do to make supplies working? are they in the temple spraying herbal water mixtures on their faces seeing visions of cheap parts??? do they have some kind of knowledge of magnetic materials from birth based on their facial structure?/
come on. this is retarded
is the lucky dragon going to predict the non specified specification correctly?? your like a gambler bro
the way this thread is written is like your trying to kidnap mail order brides or eat sum-yun-gui you know what im saying? jfc its CREEPY.
you need like a die-engineer to answer half your questions, not chinese guys. did you think 5 minutes critically about how to solve the problems your having?
get on grindr for the chinese and hire qualified people to work in your company?? :-\]
btw half the questions you ask are answered by 'we don't wanna pay a fucking guy to check the pressure gauge during this step of manufacture because its good enough and it can go either way. You want to guarantee a weird part parameter? try paying the company (maybe its their fucking business plan to pay you off when the offset voltage is 1.2 rather then the typical 0.7 because its 100x cheaper to do so >:(
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I have known some good Chinese engineers who grew up in the PRC. No problems... smart, good and friendly people. I could trust all these engineers from the PRC except for one who inadvertently disclosed to me they had attended an event celebrated in Melbourne of the 60th anniversary of the Maoist revolution in China. From then on, I had my suspicions about this individual.
I don't know about the UK, but in Australia it is illegal to discriminate employing someone based on their political views. But in my opinion hiring anyone who supported allegiances to the Chinese Communist Party could pose an unacceptable IP risk. How do you filter them out legally? You can't. In my opinion, the law is flawed in this regard.
Ageism is also illegal in Australia, but it is rampant. Hard to prove generally. Richard Branson's aptly named Virgin Airlines got caught out as a rampant practitioners of ageism amongst its air hostesses. https://www.theage.com.au/business/virgin-blue-loses-age-discrimination-case-20051010-ge10vr.html (https://www.theage.com.au/business/virgin-blue-loses-age-discrimination-case-20051010-ge10vr.html). In my opinion, the law is correct in this regard.
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:palm: I see xenophobia is still alive and well. I do not want to work for employers like that, maybe I'll start telling people I'm affiliated with the communist party.
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:palm: I see xenophobia is still alive and well. I do not want to work for employers like that, maybe I'll start telling people I'm affiliated with the communist party.
How easy (or hard) would it be for an American or Australian engineer to get a job in China for a Chinese company?
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:palm: I see xenophobia is still alive and well. I do not want to work for employers like that, maybe I'll start telling people I'm affiliated with the communist party.
How easy (or hard) would it be for an American or Australian engineer to get a job in China for a Chinese company?
If you have desired skills that can't be found locally you can get a job in China without major obstacles. If the necessary skills can be found locally you won't get very far.
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xenophobia
You should get a dictionary. This doesn't look like an anti-chinese thing.
Now, if you believe the CCP is China and anything against the CCP is anti-chinese, do expect to be considered a shill and a potential danger.
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Most people in china believe that the CCP is steering the country in the right direction according to a survey, so anti CCP but pro china is a hard to argue position. I'm not a chinese citizen so I don't have more to say about this, but I would not discriminate against a trump supporter in a hiring decision, so why would a CCP supporter be any different?
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Most people in china believe that the CCP is steering the country in the right direction according to a survey
Am I supposed to take a survey on the CCP by people in China seriously now?
I'm not a chinese citizen so I don't have more to say about this, but I would not discriminate against a trump supporter in a hiring decision, so why would a CCP supporter be any different?
I'm not sure what you're arguing here. I would still judge the person on their stated beliefs, and that has nothing to do with ethnicity.
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...they had attended an event celebrated in Melbourne of the 60th anniversary of the Maoist revolution in China...
...supported allegiances to the Chinese Communist Party...
So anyone who attended a celebration of this cultural event is proof of allegiance to the CCP?
Anyone who attended a Christmas party is devout Christian?
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I found the source of my earlier explanation on springer.com...
Abstract
The British officials who coined the phrase “Made in Germany” intended it as an insult. In 1887, alarmed at an influx of low-priced German products, the British government required goods imported from Germany to be labeled as such. Back then, Germany was to Britain something like China is to Europe or the United States today. It was an aggressive emerging economy with a large store of cheap labor and ambitions to become an economic superpower. But Britain’s attempt to shield domestic companies from competition backfired. Made in Germany became a synonym for quality.1 The story of how Germany succeeded within a few decades still tells us something about the German mindset and tradition.
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1057/9781137340542_1
That is a nice legend but I would need to see some facts that support it. I have shown the 1887 Act does nothing of the sort. Legends and myths are repeated all over the place but that does not make them true. Unless and until I can see some incontrovertible evidence I am going with "myth".
Interestingly, Birmingham in England was, in the early 20th Century, well known for making cheap & nasty costume jewellery.
This, in Oz was often sold by the Coles chainstores, & the term "cheap Coles Brummies" was one I remember hearing from my parents when I was a kid.
Even though the source of these things changed over the years, the appellation "Brummies" lived on, although my generation would probably be the last one to recognise it.
Things were seriously tough in Germany after WW2, & some of the first enterprises that got going were those making ingenious clockwork toys.
Some of these manufacturers, fearing lingering bad feelings, labelled their product "Made in US", followed by, in much smaller font, "Zone Germany".
In Oz, we tended to take "Made in England" & "British & best" with a grain of salt, knowing the Brits could turn out crap "with the best of 'em".
In Australia, imported stuff, especially tools were normally marked with their country of origin.
When I went to the UK for a year in the early 1970s, a friend & I bought an old car.
Inevitably, we needed to work on it, & bought some tools.
To my surprise, what looked to be the identical set of tools to those I had in Oz, were marked "Foreign", whereas the Australian bought ones said "Japan".
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Dear sir or madman Treez,
why go to China when you can shop in Argentina? My rates are pretty accesible, speak fluent English and have Italian citizenship.
Also, we have a very good crop of power engineers here.
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Dear sir or madman Treez,
why go to China when you can shop in Argentina? My rates are pretty accesible, speak fluent English and have Italian citizenship.
Also, we have a very good crop of power engineers here.
But you don’t have the Chinese PSU engineering gene treez seems to think they possess! 🤣
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I guess a benefit of a chinese engineer is that he knows the chinese internal market, can read the chinese only datasheets of the latest super cheap cloned chips and components.
Impossible for a non chinese engineer :)
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I guess a benefit of a chinese engineer is that he knows the chinese internal market, can read the chinese only datasheets of the latest super cheap cloned chips and components.
Impossible for a non chinese engineer :)
google translate has a photo option bro
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google translate has a photo option bro
Try it , and report back with the results :)
Don't be surprised if you get something like:
" to destroy do component ding recompare pole left red in air gush washer pin not do that"
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" to destroy do component ding recompare pole left red in air gush washer pin not do that"
;D
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" to destroy do component ding recompare pole left red in air gush washer pin not do that"
so it is the default translation: "don´t touch it if you don´t know what you´re doing".
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google translate has a photo option bro
Try it , and report back with the results :)
Don't be surprised if you get something like:
" to destroy do component ding recompare pole left red in air gush washer pin not do that"
You can work with translations like that, because it's obvious drivel. Google translate gets really fun then the translation reads really well, but has flipped the meaning of the original. If there's even a hint of irony in a piece of text, expect some funky translations.
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Well can I start…
I never think that my first reply would be into this kind of topic, that I don’t know if it is a troll topic or a serious idea that treez really want.
I’m a Portuguese that it’s married with a Chinese woman and I’m currently living in Shenzhen, China.
I’m not going to start with the China working conditions are bad, the sweatshops and the bad paid employees because it’s not true. Yes they are cases of that here, but they are also cases of well-paid and respected EE into respected companies. No I’m not going to make a comparison with Eastern Standards and Western standards because, well they don’t exist.
As Portuguese I saw the same bad things happening in Portugal in terms of companies and how they threaten their own human resources. It’s no different here in China in some companies, it’s not different in other parts of the world, Germany, France, UK, USA, etc. Just look at the news…
The Made in is nonsense in the current world. It’s only used as propaganda for Patriotism. Example: Fluke 289 - Made in USA (with components that were designed and probably manufactured around the world, most of them in China). Should it not be Assembled in?
Treez did you really want to do exactly what you said, so basically going by the bad standards just for money and company portfolio? Tell me how different are you from other stories of companies that exploit the human resources for some extra single 0.% to the annual financial report to appease the masses of capital investors?
Do you know that the world is big but at the same time it’s small? Everyone knows everyone. If you fail onto trust of one supplier you probably cutting yourself from the rest of suppliers. Words travel like the wind, especially bad reports.
“A lie gets halfway around the world before truth puts on its boots.”
Well I think it’s enough and I also think that I didn’t contribute with something really meaningful for the discussion. Probably I just did feed the trolls - https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/12/17561768/dont-feed-the-trolls-online-harassment-abuse (https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/12/17561768/dont-feed-the-trolls-online-harassment-abuse)
It’s like being invited for the first party in University when you know no one and fell awkward. That’s how I fell here when I try to reply to something.
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LoL, read his previous troll threads. He was just for fun.
Someone suggested to post "Treez is an idiot" and bet the poster would get a like from him, so I did, and as expected, he thanked.
If that doesn't show the sheer blatantness of his trolling behavior, what does?
BTW, I bet this post will also get a thank from him. Let's see.
The problem is that sometimes it's not trolling. Treez looks like a colleague that I had in 2007 when I was doing the Electronics and Electrical Course that we also always taken what he said by trolling until it got physical and hurt himself very badly. After that I never saw trolling as something to laugh about.
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Regardless, your kindness is admirable and I appreciate that.
We are human beings, if you want to be helped you should help too, what was my parent's education. But enough Offtopic.