General > General Technical Chat
With Travel Halted, What Happens To The Planes?
WattsThat:
That you for the Air Transat link, I was unaware of that event.
I am not surprised that both pilots mentioned had glider ratings. With that experience, one learns from your first flight that without power, you get one and only one chance for a successful landing.
Rick Law:
--- Quote from: jogri on August 10, 2020, 08:20:32 pm ---
--- Quote from: Rick Law on August 10, 2020, 07:31:02 pm ---Pardon my ignorance, what does "unscheduled rapid disassembly" means? Is that some kind of airline lingo for the plane falling apart while descending for the landing? If so, this euphemism totally obscure the reality here.
--- End quote ---
It's a term that is commonly used as an euphemism when a rocket decides to blow up. Afaik no airline uses this term (but SpaceX uses it to describe their landing failures), it's just a joke phrase like "the front fell off".
--- End quote ---
Yeah, that's what I thought. A way over the top euphemism.
IanB:
Reading the story of Air Transat was also disturbing. Two experienced pilots were flying a plane in which fuel was disappearing much faster than their flight plan said it should be consumed by the engines. So much so that alarms went off. And yet, when a tank was unexpectedly low on fuel, they pumped even more fuel into the empty tank and watched that disappear too. And then they said "Oops! We ran out of fuel!" If there was ever a case of human error, this was it.
It's worrying, because although there is a place for checklists and standard operating procedures, you also have to think. You can't check your brain at the door and leave it behind.
SkyMaster:
--- Quote from: WattsThat on August 10, 2020, 03:31:03 pm ---
--- Quote from: paulca on August 10, 2020, 09:24:45 am ---
--- Quote from: IanB on August 09, 2020, 06:17:13 pm ---
--- Quote ---which could result in a forced off-airport landing
--- End quote ---
I get the feeling this means "a crash" :-\
--- End quote ---
Plausibly, but you'd be amazed at how far a full airliner can glide.... if it has altitude to do so.
--- End quote ---
No doubt you are referring to this example:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider
Any aircraft that crashes in an uncontrolled fashion due to the loss of power is the very definition of pilot error. There is no excuse for losing control of an aircraft due to a loss of propulsion. Period. You do not stop flying the aircraft until it is no longer moving.
Aviate, navigate, communicate.
--- End quote ---
There was also Air Transat Flight 236 that glided on a long distance before successfully landing (okay, it was a hard landing).
But these all-engine-out landing are only successful in day VFR condition. At night or in IFR condition, gliding to a successful landing would required a tremendous amount of luck.
:)
SkyMaster:
--- Quote from: IanB on August 11, 2020, 02:24:31 am ---Reading the story of Air Transat was also disturbing. Two experienced pilots were flying a plane in which fuel was disappearing much faster than their flight plan said it should be consumed by the engines. So much so that alarms went off. And yet, when a tank was unexpectedly low on fuel, they pumped even more fuel into the empty tank and watched that disappear too. And then they said "Oops! We ran out of fuel!" If there was ever a case of human error, this was it.
It's worrying, because although there is a place for checklists and standard operating procedures, you also have to think. You can't check your brain at the door and leave it behind.
--- End quote ---
The Air Transat Flight 236 crew were busy handling a low oil temperature indication when they observed that an automatic fuel transfer started sooner than expected. From that point the captain was trusting less and less the avionics of his plane. Also, the crew were in contact with the maintenance person from the airline and the crew followed the maintenance person instructions. Following the investigation, Airbus revised the A330 flight manual in regard to suspected fuel leak.
Also, it is always easy to judge any crew decision, after all the facts are available and weeks or months are spent reviewing the event.
The Accident Report, from the Government of Portugal, is available. It is only 103 pages long and easy to read.
:)
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