Author Topic: Women in Science? Sexism doesn't help... (EU Ad Campaign)  (Read 13855 times)

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Offline TradieTrev

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Women in Science? Sexism doesn't help... (EU Ad Campaign)
« on: June 28, 2012, 11:07:43 am »
G'day Ladies and Gents,

Up for discussion this evening is recent ad campaign promoting women into science by flashy music and lipstick/makeup.
The actual ad was deleted by the original owners but a copy can be found here:

For discussion purposes I've also included a time news article (which basically represents any decent blokes opinion) :
http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/06/25/the-e-u-s-breathtakingly-awful-science-video/

And also a great vlog by "Cameron" aka ElectricUnicycleCrew (please note there is a language warning):


Another clip probably more productive than the one above provided by a fellow EEV-Forum guru "AntiProtonBoy" - Thanks heaps for the link bloke!:


Personally I am appalled that these media types continue to do such things! Why?! It makes no logical sense. Sure they sell the ad to viewers but it gives the wrong impression to the public!!

Would love to hear your thoughts,

Cheers
Trev
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 05:19:35 pm by TradieTrev »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Women in Science? Sexism doesn't help... (EU Ad Campaign)
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2012, 12:04:13 pm »
Mrs EEVblog (who is a scientist) just gave it the thumbs thumbs down.

Dave.
 

Offline hun_yeti

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Re: Women in Science? Sexism doesn't help... (EU Ad Campaign)
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2012, 12:15:46 pm »
This is just wrong, sexism is wrong and I think that is the number one reason that there isn't many women in these type of professions.
and fighting this with more sexism is just an Epic fail.
 

Offline TradieTrev

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Re: Women in Science? Sexism doesn't help... (EU Ad Campaign)
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2012, 12:43:08 pm »
Glad the Mrs agrees Dave!  :)

Thanks also for your input Hun_Yeti! I feel the same way when I see young women throw in the towel on their electrical apprenticeships.

This EU campaign reminded of the topic you brought up with a Sydney/ maybe it was Melbourne? They had a advert promoting engineering with a bra on a bus station billboard.

There was a blog I read (perhaps a few months ago on the front page of eevblog) Couldn't remember the blokes name sorry, but he had a well written blog article about the same sort of feelings I have. Also yes I've done the typical n00b search, but be gentle with me!

If there's any other users that could help me out finding it, I'd happily appreciate it & amend it to the original post.

Cheers,
Trev
 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: Women in Science? Sexism doesn't help... (EU Ad Campaign)
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2012, 12:46:37 pm »
The whole campaign is a mess. Of course with staged photos and, for example, one where they try to sell an electrician job for an electrical engineer



By the way, spot what part of the PPE is not worn? And the the screwdriver technique of the model needs improvement, too.

But it gets worse. They do age discrimination in the campaign, in addition to the prototypical discrimination against men. You can only volunteer as a student role model if you are between 18 and 25 of age. Science is only for young women.
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Women in Science? Sexism doesn't help... (EU Ad Campaign)
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2012, 12:52:18 pm »
But it gets worse. They do age discrimination in the campaign, in addition to the prototypical discrimination against men. You can only volunteer as a student role model if you are between 18 and 25 of age. Science is only for young women.

and likely only generically attractive ones...

Dave.
 

Offline olsenn

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Re: Women in Science? Sexism doesn't help... (EU Ad Campaign)
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2012, 01:10:38 pm »
I LOVE women scientists... they like to experiment!
 

Offline G7PSK

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Re: Women in Science? Sexism doesn't help... (EU Ad Campaign)
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2012, 01:15:17 pm »
The whole campaign is a mess. Of course with staged photos and, for example, one where they try to sell an electrician job for an electrical engineer



By the way, spot what part of the PPE is not worn? And the the screwdriver technique of the model needs improvement, too.

But it gets worse. They do age discrimination in the campaign, in addition to the prototypical discrimination against men. You can only volunteer as a student role model if you are between 18 and 25 of age. Science is only for young women.
Well that hat will make a mess of her hair and without the gloves she could chip her nail polish.

I don't know what it is like now but it used to be that at Cambridge university at least that women outnumbered men in things like chemistry and the bio sciences and medical science but engineering of all types it was the other way around and maths was about equal.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 01:25:20 pm by G7PSK »
 

Offline Rerouter

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Re: Women in Science? Sexism doesn't help... (EU Ad Campaign)
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2012, 01:22:13 pm »
between the hair the ungloved hands and having her hands far too close to the tip of the screwdriver while working on a bus bar, oh how media is the true enemy to equality,

i myself have met a few women sparkies, there thinner arms make them great cable jerkers (genuinely no puns intended)
 

Offline AntiProtonBoy

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Re: Women in Science? Sexism doesn't help... (EU Ad Campaign)
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2012, 02:45:50 pm »
Dr Meghan Gray's comment on the subject:


She's spot on, IMO.
 

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Re: Women in Science? Sexism doesn't help... (EU Ad Campaign)
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2012, 03:59:08 pm »
If there is anything that could inspire a young girl into science that would be Dr. Gray et. al.

Only the last thing she says is not entirely correct. Even if the numbers show that this works as a solution, it still does not preclude the existence of other, even better solutions.
 

Offline TradieTrev

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Re: Women in Science? Sexism doesn't help... (EU Ad Campaign)
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2012, 05:11:54 pm »
Dr Meghan Gray's comment on the subject:


She's spot on, IMO.

Many thanks for sharing that! I didn't know that this clip existed!
 

Offline Sionyn

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Re: Women in Science? Sexism doesn't help... (EU Ad Campaign)
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2012, 05:52:28 pm »
i know a very hot meteorologist but its far from her priority more interested in big brother
she very kind hatred kind of girl you take home to mother   
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Offline TheWelly888

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Re: Women in Science? Sexism doesn't help... (EU Ad Campaign)
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2012, 08:02:52 pm »
Somehow this ad reminds me of a crap TV advert many years ago, for a brand of tampon which involved glass tubes, blue ink and a bloke in a white coat. The advertised brand stuck inside the tube and the inferior brand was easily pulled out.

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Offline MikeK

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Re: Women in Science? Sexism doesn't help... (EU Ad Campaign)
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2012, 09:09:08 pm »
Quite a stupid video, that is.  We already know that girls aren't going into science because in middle and grade school they're choosing to be popular and pretty.  What a retarded way to counteract that.  Hey, you can look hot in a lab coat!  You can write equations on a board while some guy is lusting after you!

A side rant about this is that...I hate people trying to jazz up science.  Science is already cool and awesome.  But...it's hard ass work.  I don't want people putting stickers and sugar on it trying to get people attracted.  If you're concerned about your lipstick...I don't want you playing with test tubes.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Women in Science? Sexism doesn't help... (EU Ad Campaign)
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2012, 11:05:34 pm »
Quote
If you're concerned about your lipstick...I don't want you playing with test tubes.
well, the other "test tube" can. the not so rigid one! there's sometime when women try to do men's job, things get pretty ugly...


« Last Edit: June 29, 2012, 02:55:51 am by EEVblog »
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Offline 8086

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Re: Women in Science? Sexism doesn't help... (EU Ad Campaign)
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2012, 11:14:56 pm »
The trouble is, it's just not something women are generally interested in. It may sound a little sexist, but it's the truth. I genuinely don't see the point in trying to force it.
 

Offline westfw

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Re: Women in Science? Sexism doesn't help... (EU Ad Campaign)
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2012, 12:38:04 am »
Dr. Gray's comments are spot-on, IMO.

Quote
it's just not something women are generally interested in.
Ah, just shut up.  It's not something men are generally interested in, either.  I want ... all the people that are actually interested to be able to follow that interest without regard to a prevailing "people like me aren't supposed to be interested in that."

And Mechatrommer should keep his opinions about women body-builders in check too.  Just because it's not to your taste doesn't make it OK for you to call her "ugly" in public.  I'm pretty sure I can find more people who think she's hot than think *I'm* hot...
 

Offline MikeK

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Re: Women in Science? Sexism doesn't help... (EU Ad Campaign)
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2012, 12:40:12 am »
The trouble is, it's just not something women are generally interested in. It may sound a little sexist, but it's the truth. I genuinely don't see the point in trying to force it.

It's not that simple.  Women are generally not interested in it, because they've had little exposure to it as girls.

And, even still...Children are generally not interested in arithmetic...Why bother teaching it to them?  They're not interested in history, or biology, or writing.  Okay, a few are, but most?  So why do we teach kids anything?

Education is about opportunity.  When you're not exposed to science, your odds of becoming a scientist are probably zero.  When you're not exposed to music or art, your odds of becoming a musician or artist are likewise zero.  How many of us would be EEs or EE hobbyists if we had not been exposed to this stuff when we were kids?

And that's my gripe about the video.  It has nothing to do with science.
 

Offline 8086

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Re: Women in Science? Sexism doesn't help... (EU Ad Campaign)
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2012, 01:07:15 am »
Quote
it's just not something women are generally interested in.
Ah, just shut up.  It's not something men are generally interested in, either.  I want ... all the people that are actually interested to be able to follow that interest without regard to a prevailing "people like me aren't supposed to be interested in that."

Actually, that's kind of my point. I never said women shouldn't be interested in it, I said that they generally aren't. I don't think you can really argue with that, as that is the premise behind the whole thread.

Up to a certain age, boys and girls have the same exposure to the same things in the most part, I never had anything to do with electronics up till about the age of 15 - when I took a class at school, a class available to both boys and girls, yet mostly there were boys in the class. And note I said mostly - there were some girls there, the ones interested in it. What's the problem there? I don't necessarily see one.

The trouble is, it's just not something women are generally interested in. It may sound a little sexist, but it's the truth. I genuinely don't see the point in trying to force it.

It's not that simple.  Women are generally not interested in it, because they've had little exposure to it as girls.

And, even still...Children are generally not interested in arithmetic...Why bother teaching it to them?  They're not interested in history, or biology, or writing.  Okay, a few are, but most?  So why do we teach kids anything?

Education is about opportunity.  When you're not exposed to science, your odds of becoming a scientist are probably zero.  When you're not exposed to music or art, your odds of becoming a musician or artist are likewise zero.  How many of us would be EEs or EE hobbyists if we had not been exposed to this stuff when we were kids?

And that's my gripe about the video.  It has nothing to do with science.

Rubbish, sorry. boys and girls have the same exposure to the same things at school. A boy and a girl going to the same school have the same opportunities offered to them (see above). I've worked as a teaching assistant for several years in several schools and with several age groups, this divide that everyone is jumping on I believe doesn't actually exist, and I don't believe that targeting girls with propaganda about how they should go into engineering or science is going to change anything at all. In fact, in the sciences you will find many women; it's in engineering that they aren't quite so prevalent.


It all seems like we're taking issue with an "inequality" that doesn't actually matter, because people like to stick their oar in and "make a difference".

So we have more male engineers than females, so bloody what?

(inb4 shitstorm)
 

Offline MikeK

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Re: Women in Science? Sexism doesn't help... (EU Ad Campaign)
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2012, 02:41:34 am »
Like I said before, most kids aren't interested in the subjects.  Why bother teaching them anything?
 

Offline PeteInTexas

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Re: Women in Science? Sexism doesn't help... (EU Ad Campaign)
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2012, 02:50:05 am »
The only fault I see here is the "Its a girl thing" slogan.  It is very conceivable that those 3 lovelies can do science well.  Perhaps it is the critics who want to cling to the usual stereotypes of science and scientists.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Women in Science? Sexism doesn't help... (EU Ad Campaign)
« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2012, 03:08:24 am »
Rubbish, sorry. boys and girls have the same exposure to the same things at school. A boy and a girl going to the same school have the same opportunities offered to them (see above). I've worked as a teaching assistant for several years in several schools and with several age groups, this divide that everyone is jumping on I believe doesn't actually exist, and I don't believe that targeting girls with propaganda about how they should go into engineering or science is going to change anything at all. In fact, in the sciences you will find many women; it's in engineering that they aren't quite so prevalent.

Yes, there is basically equilibrium in today's teaching system, and with the information revolution and the internet, both boys and girls pretty get the same exposure at the formal education level, and the availability of information. So why don't we see as many women in engineering and science?
Well, science has a big percentage of women, but engineering is still fairly low. And it may take another decade or two for the true results to come in here in this aspect of it.

Quote
So we have more male engineers than females, so bloody what?

It's a problem because whilst both boy and girls have the same exposure to engineering as boys at the formal level as mentioned above, it's entirely different the social and role model level.
At school girls will mostly hang out with other girls, so there is the peer pressure and exposure of being interesting the same things they are, and society in general (and parents) still have an innate bias toward engineering being a boys thing. So girls in general are going to naturally get subtly nudged away from electronics and engineering, more so than a boy would.
It's a bit of a critical mass thing too. Unless there are other girls out there being visible role model in engineering, and their friends getting into as well etc, odds are that in general electronics end engineering is not going to be seen as a profession for girl. So programs or other things that support getting girls into engineering is a worthwhile cause IMO.
Sure, there will always be the outliers. Heck even I was an outlier! I literally did not know anyone growing up, childhood friend, family, or adult who was into electronics. And this remained so until I went to study it in my late teens. By all accounts I should never have gotten into electronics at all, I was an outlier.

Dave.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2012, 03:12:20 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Women in Science? Sexism doesn't help... (EU Ad Campaign)
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2012, 03:14:22 am »
It is very conceivable that those 3 lovelies can do science well.  Perhaps it is the critics who want to cling to the usual stereotypes of science and scientists.

Perhaps, but I'm very curious to know if they are or not. And not just studying it, but have a genuine passion and interest in it.
And if so, were they picked for their "girly" looks?  :o

Dave.
 

Offline westfw

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Re: Women in Science? Sexism doesn't help... (EU Ad Campaign)
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2012, 04:59:06 am »
The video is inherently bogus and sexist in that it propagates the myth that women should be "glamorous" in addition to whatever else they do.   Hmmph.

This was good too:
http://www.upworthy.com/nailed-it-if-youre-a-dude-on-the-internet-you-need-to-see-this-video?g=2

Whenever the whole education thing comes up, I like to complain that it's not the "introduction" that we lack.  There are lots of programs to get small kids interested in STEM subjects.  Applied equally to boys and girls (and in my experience, getting equal response.)  And then there is ...  "Chemical glassware is drug paraphernalia."  "Model rockets require a permit from the fire marshal."  "High power model rockets require a BATF license that you can't get till you're an adult."  "Don't take electronics through the airport (or to school unless you're sure you have permission.)"  "You can't have that; it's dangerous!"

So STEM can attract, but it fails to hold all but the most stubborn.   Perhaps that's just as well.  But I don't think so.

« Last Edit: June 29, 2012, 05:02:38 am by westfw »
 


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