Women in Science? Sexism doesn't help... (EU Ad Campaign)

[AntiProtonBoy]

To be honest Im getting fed up with this equality bullshit. I'm not sexist and am happy to let each to their own. Hec I think I'm going to call discrimination on men not being able to have babies ! Perhaps women would like to share public toilets with men I mean if we are going for this equality thing let's go all the way and become a single sex race ! I'm sure we can do that as a tecnological race. Where do we stop ? Yes remove the stigma from women engineers but that video was utterly pointless to the point that i'd not have known what it was about without being told.

What's wrong with unisex toilets?

[vk6zgo]

I'm against the very idea of trying to get anyone into the sciences. Women know what science is just as much as men do... if they aren't interested in persuing that as a career path than so be it. You can't manipulate people into changing who they are. Science is about challenging EVERYTHING you have been told as a kid and trying to learn how the world works from basic principles all by yourself. It requires incredible courage and a strong desire to do so... if they don't have both of these things than they won't make good scientists. If someone's decision to take up that career/hobby is based on whether society says it is okay or not, than I don't want that person involved in it. Let them go to art college.*

For the record, I do not consider engineering to be a science... it is a technical art. Scientists discover the underlying principles that engineers eventually exploit.

* I would dispute that "Art College" is a soft option.

In a real Art College,(as distinct from the few dilettante courses run by some Unis),students learn, among numerous other things, Anatomy,Perspective,History of Art,Metallurgy,& lost wax casting,as applied to the making of bronze sculptures,Lithography,& these days, Computer graphics.

Historically,many of the processes which are used in Industry today,had their origin in the methods used by Artists.
For instance,who were the first people who needed to know how to  cast large bronze statues?
And having done so in one piece,worked out that they could make them in several pieces & braze them together?

Benvenuto Cellini's Art workshop would have looked more like a factory than what we think of as an Artist's studio.

I see Scientists & Engineers patting themselves on the back in this thread,saying "Gee we're smart!".
I'm sorry,but you are no smarter than  the people that chose other paths--just different!

We need more Engineers & Scientists,of both genders,but we also need Artists & Musicians,Novelists & Actors,Doctors,Nurses,Dentists,Master Mariners,Pilots,Cops,--you name it!
Above all,we need Historians,to show us what we have done in the past,so we don't keep on trying to reinvent the wheel!

[8086]

Yes, there is basically equilibrium in today's teaching system, and with the information revolution and the internet, both boys and girls pretty get the same exposure at the formal education level, and the availability of information. So why don't we see as many women in engineering and science?

It's a problem because whilst both boy and girls have the same exposure to engineering as boys at the formal level as mentioned above, it's entirely different the social and role model level.

I agree. And this is the problem with this type of propaganda. Directing it towards the girls isn't the most effective way to convey the message. It has to be through parents and become more socially "acceptable" - I hesitate to use that word though, because it definitely is socially acceptable, just not the norm.

Though having said that, I am not sure I buy the thing as a whole - I was brought up without a significant male role model, by a single mother who is a nursery teacher, and here I am in electronics, making use of the opportunities available to me, which were not any different to those available to the girls I was at school with. In fact I know a few girls from school who went into engineering, but also many more who went into other things. And what's wrong with that? I could say the same for the boys! I still don't understand the mindset that if roughly 50% of us are female, then each industry sector should show 50% female employment. What about teaching, nursing, and therapy, etc? The male-female ratio for those is about 1:8 (iirc) so why is nobody shouting about this "inequality"?

[Simon]

Yes, there is basically equilibrium in today's teaching system, and with the information revolution and the internet, both boys and girls pretty get the same exposure at the formal education level, and the availability of information. So why don't we see as many women in engineering and science?

It's a problem because whilst both boy and girls have the same exposure to engineering as boys at the formal level as mentioned above, it's entirely different the social and role model level.

I agree. And this is the problem with this type of propaganda. Directing it towards the girls isn't the most effective way to convey the message. It has to be through parents and become more socially "acceptable" - I hesitate to use that word though, because it definitely is socially acceptable, just not the norm.

Though having said that, I am not sure I buy the thing as a whole - I was brought up without a significant male role model, by a single mother who is a nursery teacher, and here I am in electronics, making use of the opportunities available to me, which were not any different to those available to the girls I was at school with. In fact I know a few girls from school who went into engineering, but also many more who went into other things. And what's wrong with that? I could say the same for the boys! I still don't understand the mindset that if roughly 50% of us are female, then each industry sector should show 50% female employment. What about teaching, nursing, and therapy, etc? The male-female ratio for those is about 1:8 (iirc) so why is nobody shouting about this "inequality"?

Precisely ! We could have it either way around but these idiots go for making a fuss

[XynxNet]

[...] but that video was utterly pointless to the point that i'd not have known what it was about without being told.

Exactly my first thought. There is no science in that video.
They should show real science in their ad campain and real scientists with their projects.

[8086]

Interesting article, page two in particular: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-trouble-with-barbie-science

[poptones]

[poptones]

[korborh]

If you think that's fair, you are part of the problem.

Who said the world is fair?

[korborh]

 I still don't understand the mindset that if roughly 50% of us are female, then each industry sector should show 50% female employment. What about teaching, nursing, and therapy, etc? The male-female ratio for those is about 1:8 (iirc) so why is nobody shouting about this "inequality"?

Well said!

It is naive to think men and women are exactly equal and they should have same interests. Evolution has steered the skills, motivations and interests of men and women differently for survival (and social benefits).

If someone is interested in pursuing science/engineering seriously, it is a lot of work and sacrifice. Many give up. Its not for everybody, and it happens to be that men pursue it more even though women have the same opportunities growing up. I don't see what is stopping women to go into engineering if they want to.

[TheWelly888]

I stumbled on this interesting Smithsonian web page listing 10 historic female scientists and though of this thread:

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/Ten-Historic-Female-Scientists-You-Should-Know.html