Author Topic: wood fractal youtube video letal fatal hack  (Read 5143 times)

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Offline strawberryTopic starter

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wood fractal youtube video letal fatal hack
« on: June 19, 2022, 11:33:48 pm »
trained habits feeling like an expert 8)
faulty gloves will give false confidence when 2000V can arc over air (0.5...3mm)
melted plastic is worst(100..250degC ) and wont evaporate like water
electricity is not dangerous but lack of education and (proper)training
soon everything will be restricted and dangerous

« Last Edit: June 19, 2022, 11:41:21 pm by strawberry »
 

Offline John B

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Re: wood fractal youtube video letal fatal hack
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2022, 11:56:42 pm »
The video was at least surprising well researched , and the electrical terminology wasn't too butchered. But the whole stance of "Just don't do it, ever! Even if you're an electrician!" just doesn't resonate, and is maybe a little presumptuous for a middle aged cooking mum channel.
 
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Offline Sredni

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Re: wood fractal youtube video letal fatal hack
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2022, 12:48:59 pm »
It'll end like it ended with chemical sets. The only chemicals included are sugar, baking soda, vinegar, lemon juice and salt.
It's a conspiracy led by cooking mums! We will live in battery-powered homes.

Regarding salt... someone should send this mom a link to DiodeGoneWild's channel.

"Saaaalt... more saaaaalt..."



All instruments lie. Usually on the bench.
 

Online wraper

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Re: wood fractal youtube video letal fatal hack
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2022, 01:08:28 pm »
the whole stance of "Just don't do it, ever! Even if you're an electrician!" just doesn't resonate, and is maybe a little presumptuous for a middle aged cooking mum channel.
Many electricians have no effing idea how things actually work to be frank. All they do is follow (or violate) the codes and what they were  trained to do.

 

Offline strawberryTopic starter

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Re: wood fractal youtube video letal fatal hack
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2022, 05:11:47 pm »
Electroboom could be immortal
 

Online Zero999

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Online tooki

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Re: wood fractal youtube video letal fatal hack
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2022, 05:55:14 pm »
The video was at least surprising well researched , and the electrical terminology wasn't too butchered. But the whole stance of "Just don't do it, ever! Even if you're an electrician!" just doesn't resonate, and is maybe a little presumptuous for a middle aged cooking mum channel.
Just to be clear, Ann Reardon is NOT a basic “middle aged cooking mum”. She’s a professional food scientist and dietician, worked in food service, as well as being extremely skilled in both food styling and photography. The quality of her videos is spectacular, both in terms of production quality (of the videography) and of the amount of effort and technical skill she puts into the foods shown. (In her debunking videos, she replicates everything they do, no matter how much work it causes, and then shows how to do it properly.) I don’t think I can actually think of any other studio-based YouTube channel that is so well done. Many have high production value but mediocre content quality. Others (like eevblog) don’t bother much with production value, but have superb content. The only other contenders I can think of off the top of my head are Alex (French Guy Cooking), Technology Connections and Techmoan, but I think Ann Reardon is just a bit ahead.

Pretty much the only part that’s unscripted is her feeding her victims, er, I mean, her husband and sons, the awful recipes from the content farm how-to videos.


As for “don’t do it, even if you’re an electrician”: I completely agree. The only people whose training truly prepares them for this is linemen and maybe industrial electricians. Standard domestic/office electricians don’t work on kilovolt circuits, AFAIK.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2022, 07:43:17 pm by tooki »
 
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: wood fractal youtube video letal fatal hack
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2022, 06:03:14 pm »
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 

Offline John B

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Re: wood fractal youtube video letal fatal hack
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2022, 10:28:47 pm »
I like Clive's video. I think he is on a similar wavelength to myself and presumably many people on this forum in that he recognises something is dangerous, but also acknowledges that human curiosity in something which combines something artistically beautiful with some scary forces of nature, will lead at least some people to try it out. As such, he does his best to explain the dangers and risk minimisation strategies whilst respecting the viewers own volition and personal responsibility.

Contrast that with the OP's video, which is more along the lines of "abstinence only"  :-DD education. Having looked through the comment section of the video yesterday, the general tone of he comments were along the lines of "Oh my god, I had NO idea electricity could be SO dangerous", or people calling for banning and deleting of any comments or content that even suggests that the art can be done in a safe manner (again none of this sits right with me), so perhaps the message of the video is appropriate to the target demographic of her videos.

I get the impetus though.  A few years back I knew this teenager around 13 years old at the time, who reminded me a lot of myself when I was that age playing around with all kinds of dangerous stuff. He mentioned something about a MOT and I managed to talk him out of playing around with it, without adding the "forbidden fruit" allure to it. Nobody wants to feel responsible if someone else does get injured or killed.
 
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Online tooki

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Re: wood fractal youtube video letal fatal hack
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2022, 06:25:32 am »
For a bit of background, some of Ann Reardon’s most popular videos are debunking junk crafts videos. Several of those videos suggest doing patently dangerous things with molten sugar (like dipping an electric beater into it and turning it on to create threads), which she a) demonstrated the dangers of, and b) showed how to do safely. So it’s not as though she doesn’t want people to do things. I think that for a non-electrical audience, her advice is correct. And for his highly-technical audience, so is Clive’s.
 
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Online wraper

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Re: wood fractal youtube video letal fatal hack
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2022, 11:30:47 am »
Just so you have an idea with what these people are playing with:

 
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Offline ConKbot

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Re: wood fractal youtube video letal fatal hack
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2022, 12:26:24 pm »
Anne's video is appropriate for her primary audience, Clive's is appropriate for his. If someones only exposure to the inside of a microwave oven has been a sketchy youtube video, with no previous electronics experience, and wants to grab a junk microwave, get some jumper cables and a pair of leather gloves and have at it. 'just dont' is perfectly sound advice.

500mA with more than enough voltage is so far into insta-dead territory, you need theory and practical experience to be safe enough.

Can the fractal burning be done safely? Of course. For cheap? probably. How to get there is the problem.
 

Online Marco

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Re: wood fractal youtube video letal fatal hack
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2022, 06:24:20 pm »
I think Clive has the better idea. If you do it at least use a neon sign transformer and give yourself a better chance at surviving a mistake.

Not much more expensive than salvaging a MOT, leave the MOTs for the amateur welders ;)
 

Offline james_s

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Re: wood fractal youtube video letal fatal hack
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2022, 06:30:53 pm »
Contrast that with the OP's video, which is more along the lines of "abstinence only"  :-DD education. Having looked through the comment section of the video yesterday, the general tone of he comments were along the lines of "Oh my god, I had NO idea electricity could be SO dangerous", or people calling for banning and deleting of any comments or content that even suggests that the art can be done in a safe manner (again none of this sits right with me), so perhaps the message of the video is appropriate to the target demographic of her videos.

Nothing makes me want to play with something more than somebody telling me I can't do it and trying to ban me from even talking about it. Banned from discussion I'll go at it alone.

For what it's worth, I've played with MOTs many times. They are very dangerous and I respect this. They can be used safely though, millions of people use them every day in their original application and it's just as possible to do other things with them safely.

And let's keep things in perspective, bicycles kill more people than MOTs. So do roofs and stairs (falls), swimming pools (drowning), and many other things. The world is dangerous and complacency kills.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2022, 06:32:48 pm by james_s »
 

Online wraper

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Re: wood fractal youtube video letal fatal hack
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2022, 07:14:19 pm »
And let's keep things in perspective, bicycles kill more people than MOTs. So do roofs and stairs (falls), swimming pools (drowning), and many other things. The world is dangerous and complacency kills.
Let's keep in perspective that ratio of those who were killed divided by total users is way lower for bicycles than those who played dumb games with microwave transformer.
 
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Offline Someone

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Re: wood fractal youtube video letal fatal hack
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2022, 10:19:57 pm »
And let's keep things in perspective, bicycles kill more people than MOTs. So do roofs and stairs (falls), swimming pools (drowning), and many other things. The world is dangerous and complacency kills.
Let's keep in perspective that ratio of those who were killed divided by total users is way lower for bicycles than those who played dumb games with microwave transformer.
Only a few people die occasionally when climbing the worlds most dangerous mountain:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annapurna
But we should focus on discouraging swimming and say anyone talking about the dangers of mountaineering is over-blowing the risk! lol, 30% vs 0.001% fatality rate.

Playing around with anything more than 100V, you'd better know what you are doing. No, a youtube demo is not enough training or information to do it safely. The only way to achieve competency in that sort of work is through one on one training and assessment as there are so many little things that need to be constantly thought about and considered. No magic bullet or simple checklist to be safe when working with exposed conductors for making Lichtenberg patterns in wood (hint, the patterns are from thermal burning, just as it will do to flesh).

Remember the below attached image is what ignorant consumers are sold! Low current, safe, warranty. Having been trained and worked on high voltage (and high fault current) live equipment, would I go near such a device? no way. Needs much more to make it safe enough for a trained person let alone an untrained idiot.
 

Offline John B

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Re: wood fractal youtube video letal fatal hack
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2022, 10:31:17 pm »
Just so you have an idea with what these people are playing with:

.....

Ooof. Having the MOT plugged in the way he does raises a few concerns. You have to reach underneath the table in which the live MOT is sitting on, you could snag the cable and pull the whole thing off.

I would use an extension lead and physically pull the plug to turn it off. That way you turn it on or off while standing back from the unit. It's tedious, but you have a very obvious sign that the setup is de-energised before touching it.
 

Online Marco

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Re: wood fractal youtube video letal fatal hack
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2022, 10:47:53 pm »
The only way to achieve competency in that sort of work is through one on one training and assessment as there are so many little things that need to be constantly thought about and considered.

No one would teach a Wood burning, Tesla coils and Jacob ladder training course ... too much liability, not enough profit.

Closest to training you can get is books and youtube videos from the tesla coil crowd.
 

Offline Bud

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Re: wood fractal youtube video letal fatal hack
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2022, 11:09:30 pm »
"Certified Tesla Coil Operator"
 :D
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 

Offline BrokenYugo

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Re: wood fractal youtube video letal fatal hack
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2022, 11:24:26 pm »
Just so you have an idea with what these people are playing with:

.....

Ooof. Having the MOT plugged in the way he does raises a few concerns. You have to reach underneath the table in which the live MOT is sitting on, you could snag the cable and pull the whole thing off.

I would use an extension lead and physically pull the plug to turn it off. That way you turn it on or off while standing back from the unit. It's tedious, but you have a very obvious sign that the setup is de-energised before touching it.

Yeah, with this much power it's best to eliminate anything that can possibly go wrong. The rickety workbench in a dimly lit shed is a bad idea all around, I prefer to do that sort of ill advised ozone spewing stuff outside.
 

Online themadhippy

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Re: wood fractal youtube video letal fatal hack
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2022, 11:26:06 pm »
Quote
No one would teach a Wood burning, Tesla coils and Jacob ladder training course
no wood burning,but tesla coils and jacobs ladders certainly made an appearance in the cse physics lessons  at my school,then again it was a different era were chemistry included putting things like  sodium in water  and metal work including casting ,all considered far too dangerous in today's nanny state.
 
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Offline Someone

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Re: wood fractal youtube video letal fatal hack
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2022, 12:23:41 am »
The only way to achieve competency in [high voltage] sort of work is through one on one training and assessment as there are so many little things that need to be constantly thought about and considered.
No one would teach a Wood burning, Tesla coils and Jacob ladder training course ... too much liability, not enough profit.

Closest to training you can get is books and youtube videos from the tesla coil crowd.
There are industries where profit is made, that use routinely high voltages. Enclosures with interlocks is the usual solution, but there are hand held applications:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cauterization#Electrocautery

But consumers are cheap, ignorant, and selfish: "my friend on facebook did it and they didnt die" so the cycle continues. They never even recognize the danger. This ends up with heavy handed government intervention like restricting supply of things which could be transformed into something dangerous (chemical industry) which is bad for people doing electronics as a hobby or profession. Getting electrical parts at retail is already a bit of a juggle in Australia.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: wood fractal youtube video letal fatal hack
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2022, 04:37:17 am »
And let's keep things in perspective, bicycles kill more people than MOTs. So do roofs and stairs (falls), swimming pools (drowning), and many other things. The world is dangerous and complacency kills.
Let's keep in perspective that ratio of those who were killed divided by total users is way lower for bicycles than those who played dumb games with microwave transformer.

Do you have any data to support this? I have no idea how many people play with microwave transformers. They are obviously very dangerous and this should be emphasized, but it is not rocket science to use one safely. Discussion should be open and encouraged, that is one way to teach people they are in over their head and teach others how to do what they're going to do anyway safely. People do stupid dangerous stuff all the time and telling them to never do it doesn't stop them.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: wood fractal youtube video letal fatal hack
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2022, 04:40:25 am »
Quote
No one would teach a Wood burning, Tesla coils and Jacob ladder training course
no wood burning,but tesla coils and jacobs ladders certainly made an appearance in the cse physics lessons  at my school,then again it was a different era were chemistry included putting things like  sodium in water  and metal work including casting ,all considered far too dangerous in today's nanny state.

When I was in school we had casting, woodworking, metal shop, in chemistry we made contact explosives and the teacher had a carbide cannon and potato gun among other toys. Part of my 8th grade physical education class was an archery unit where we used real bows and sharp tipped arrows. I bet kids these days don't get to do most of that stuff.
 

Online Zero999

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Re: wood fractal youtube video letal fatal hack
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2022, 06:06:50 am »
And let's keep things in perspective, bicycles kill more people than MOTs. So do roofs and stairs (falls), swimming pools (drowning), and many other things. The world is dangerous and complacency kills.
Let's keep in perspective that ratio of those who were killed divided by total users is way lower for bicycles than those who played dumb games with microwave transformer.

Do you have any data to support this? I have no idea how many people play with microwave transformers. They are obviously very dangerous and this should be emphasized, but it is not rocket science to use one safely. Discussion should be open and encouraged, that is one way to teach people they are in over their head and teach others how to do what they're going to do anyway safely. People do stupid dangerous stuff all the time and telling them to never do it doesn't stop them.
The lack of data is an issue, but that makes it worse in many respects, as we don't know the relative risk. I suspect the risk is much higher in those who use a microwave oven transformer for something like wood fractal making, because it's an art and artists are generally less competent in dealing with high voltage than those who make Tesla coils and Jacob's ladders.
 


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