EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
General => General Technical Chat => Topic started by: silent on May 23, 2014, 11:14:02 am
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Hello.
I would like to ask people living in Australia for an opinion about work in this country (large cities). I am considering moving there (probably Sydney with it's metro network would be my choice) and would like to hear an opinion from native people from the industry.
How hard is to get a job there (for programmer in embedded systems / electronic engineer), how about the "quality" of the available jobs (corpo=low, science=high)?
For comparison - i live in a big city in Poland; there are a lot of jobs for programmers, no problem getting one at all, but most of them are really crap - corporation, no self-development, just a factory (I used to work for a well-known corpo during my studies (you probably have their products at home or at least seen them many times) - it was totally crap). It is quite hard to get a little more ambitious job. The second thing is the crappy economic situation of course (i.e. person with average salary in the big city is unable to rent a small flat itself in a good condition, close to the city center and have the good living conditions (by "good" i mean no need of buying the cheapest food in the supermarket and be able to save some money) ).
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If you are good and enthusiastic enough, there is always a job.
Cost of living in our big cities is very expensive, but any sort of engineering job will be good enough paying to live a decent lifestyle.
We don't have anything like the industry that the US, or parts of Europe have, so choice can be limited at times.
For example, I once mentioned on the Amp Hour that in the US, Texas Instruments at one plant alone was at one time advertising for more engineering jobs than what would be in all of Sydney - or was it all of Australia? In any case, such jobs are usually fairly limited here.
Start looking at the online job ads for starters.
Also, some employers won't consider you at all unless you have a working visa already.
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I am an American that lived and worked in Sydney for two years. It isn't hard, if you have talent.
In order to get a working visa, you must have an offer of work. This, for me, was the hardest part, so if you plan to move to Aus, then I suggest you start looking for jobs and shopping your resume out several weeks before you actually go. When you land, you'll have a tourist visa good for 90 days. Use your tourist visa time as job interview time.
Sydney is a wonderful place, and the Australian people are a good people. I have more friends from my two years in Australia than I have from my combined 37 years in the US.
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I have more friends from my two years in Australia than I have from my combined 37 years in the US.
I've been all over myself, by far the nicest people was Japan, but very very busy and crowded.
Brazil had the best looking women though, :-+.
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Witam Silent
What you describe about your Polish city just about describes Sydney's unattractions. They always say the grass is greener on the other side . (Hope that translates to Polish).
Whoever told you Sydney has a great metro system clearly has not visited Sydney. In my experience we have one of the worst public transport systems in the world; a city spread out over a vast area and traffic jams of vast proportions each morning AND all day Saturday.
Myself, being of Polish background have visited Poland. You will be shocked at the prices you have to pay in Sydney for food and accomadation compared to Poland. It's one of the most expensive cities in the world.
f you are determined and have some skills, it should be possible to get a job. You do need to have a visa to work here; generally from overseas you need to be sponsored by an employer. From what I have seen, workers on these sponsored visas are paid significantly less than the local people (is it ignorance or exploitation or both)
Robert
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IMHO affordable space close to work don't go very well together unless you are in an area where they mixed small 'industrial' zones with houses.
Developing your skills is what you typically do in your spare time. Not at work. At work you just look how the old guys do their job and try to learn the good parts.
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Just as a comparison within an hour's drive of where I live in Texas, we have TI's main office, Maxim (in the old Dallas Semiconductor building), ST Micro's US Headquarters, and we used to have National Semiconductor's Fab in my home town (a little farther away), before TI bought them.
Toyota is also moving their US offices and engineering to within an hour of where I live.
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Just as a comparison within an hour's drive of where I live in Texas, we have TI's main office, Maxim (in the old Dallas Semiconductor building), an ST Micro facility, and we used to have National Semiconductor's Fab in my home town (a little farther away), before TI bought them.
Toyota is also moving their US offices and engineering to within an hour of where I live.
TX 1, CA 0.
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Whoever told you Sydney has a great metro system clearly has not visited Sydney. In my experience we have one of the worst public transport systems in the world; a city spread out over a vast area and traffic jams of vast proportions each morning AND all day Saturday.
Yep, spot on.
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Sydney is the most expensive place to live in Australia. You will also need really good spoken English as well or you get placed at the bottom of the heap during interviews (you do know even getting interviews is hard). Many talented people who arrive and those lucky enough, end up doing crappy jobs here. It's expensive to hire Australian developers and once upon a time before outsourcing they might have been paid well. But the cost of living is high and demand is low. You are really planning to come at the worst possible time.
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Lived in Elisabeth Bay when I worked in Sydney. Would walk to work through Woolloomooloo and the Royal Botanic Gardens and Hyde Park to get to Elisabeth Street or the AMP tower. Took it in stride when I had to do a couple of weeks in Burwood, having to take the train. Had a place in Milson's Point and walked to work in North Sydney for another job, but Milson's Point was dead as a doorknob, King's Cross (adjacent to Elizabeth Bay) was much livelier, and the place never closed. >:D
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Hi, first of all sorry for this thread resurrection.
I received offer from my boss to work in Canberra for next 6 months and I would like to ask someone familiar with this are about the average living expenses.
Like renting a flat and car and everyday expenses for decent life in this area. I expect that Canberra will be little bit expensive place to live.
Thanks
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I'm not sure how it compares to Sweden but a house in Sydney is about 3 to 4 times as expensive as a similar one in the Dallas/Fort Worth area where I live.
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Hi, first of all sorry for this thread resurrection.
I received offer from my boss to work in Canberra for next 6 months and I would like to ask someone familiar with this are about the average living expenses.
Like renting a flat and car and everyday expenses for decent life in this area. I expect that Canberra will be little bit expensive place to live.
Canberra is often called the arsehole of Australia, because its reason for existence is to house our politicians, it's our nations capital.
Personally I think it's quite nice, if quite cold in winter time.
Sounds like rents there have "slumped" \
http://canberratimes.domain.com.au/real-estate-news/canberras-average-weekly-rents-have-slumped-in-the-past-year-20140409-36dtt.html (http://canberratimes.domain.com.au/real-estate-news/canberras-average-weekly-rents-have-slumped-in-the-past-year-20140409-36dtt.html)
Still not cheap though, expect to pay over $400/week rent by the sounds of it.
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/act-still-expensive-place-to-live-despite-fall-in-rent-prices-20140115-30vk8.html (http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/act-still-expensive-place-to-live-despite-fall-in-rent-prices-20140115-30vk8.html)
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/city_result.jsp?country=Australia&city=Canberra (http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/city_result.jsp?country=Australia&city=Canberra)
Is it actually in Canberra itself, or one of the outlying suburbs? as that will make a big difference I think.
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Thanks both and mainly Dave for info.
It will be Canberra itself, somewhere in centre. Based on google pictures and info it is nice city, nice trails. I hope that I will succeded :-)
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Australia is not like Eastern Europe. The electronics industry is disappearing here in general. Automotive electronics is a basket case and electronics manufacturing in general is dying. But some good R & D is still around where the money is reasonable and there are some niche industries that are growing. If you want a job here, good English is important. It appears you have a good command of written English. I would never hire an embedded guy who cannot spell or has a poor command of English, whether born here or overseas. A bonus is if you have some personality and people skills. Some introverted engineers have trouble finding work because they don't sell themselves well. If you are a foreigner, the odds are slightly biased against you, but the primary concern of employers is what you can do. Even so, some foreigners do masters degrees to increase their chances of getting work. Above all, you will need to demonstrate passion in what you want to do and demonstrate ability. Most companies will test a persons ability before they consider hiring them. If you have strong analogue or digital design skills, or are an ace test development engineer, it will help a lot. If you are an expert with Altium, that will also help because Altium is by far the most popular PCB package used in industry.
Melbourne is one of the world's most livable cities. Better than Sydney in many aspects, except Sydney has more electronics jobs there and they do have a nice harbor. In my opinion the weather in Sydney is better than Melbourne's, but Melbourne is possibly more friendlier, slower paced and has quicker travel times. There is a major road between Sydney and Melbourne. Despite the Sydney harbour, the best view of Sydney is in the driver's rear view mirror :D - sorry Dave.
Adelaide is unique - a very livable city. Easy to get around, great weather. The good news is it has some excellent electronics and medical research industries there. Per capita, they lead Australia in that regard. Their state government have for years done an excellent job in attracting electronics investment. I like Adelaide and have been there a few times for work. Housing is cheaper than Melbourne or Sydney there too. I found the people there to be friendly, but watch out for serial killers.
Canberra has almost no electronics industry. It is full of public servants and is frequented by politicians. Perth has a some electronics industry, as does Brisbane.
In any case, all cities here are relatively expensive to buy a house, due to a number of factors - mainly due to reckless government policies and low interest rates. Renting can also be expensive.
The culture here is pretty ignorant of electronics engineers. Most people have no idea what they do and know nothing about embedded programmers. It is far more aware of the non-embedded software industries than hardware industries. You won't attract chicks by telling them you are an electronics engineer.
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Melbourne is one of the worlds most liveable cities. Better than Sydney in many aspects, except Sydney has more electronics jobs there and they do have a nice harbour.
Few of those electronics jobs are in the actual city CBD though, mostly in the outer suburbs.
In my opinion the weather in Sydney is better than Melbourne's
In everyone's opinion! :P
Melbourne is famous for it's crap weather, Sydney famous for it's fantastic weather.
but Melbourne is possibly more friendlier, slower paced and has quicker travel times.
Yep, agree.
There is a major road between Sydney and Melbourne.
It's only a 12 hour drive!
Pro tip: Australia is BIG :o
Sydney-Melb is about as short a distance between two major capital cities as you can get (ignoring Canberra, like everyone does ;D )
Despite the Sydney harbour, the best view of Sydney is in the driver's rear view mirror :D - sorry Dave.
Sydney is not a pleasant place to drive, that's for sure.
Adelaide is unique - a very liveable city. Easy to get around, great weather. The good news is it has some excellent electronics and medical research industries there.
It's also where everyone goes to retire :=\
In any case, all cities here are relatively expensive to buy a house, due to a number of factors - mainly due to reckless government policies
Yeah, like the government approved scam that is negative gearing. Banned or very restricted in most civilised countries, but practically a right you are born with here :palm:
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Canberra is often called the arsehole of Australia, because its reason for existence is to house our politicians, it's our nations capital.
Personally I think it's quite nice, if quite cold in winter time.
If Canberra is the arsehole of Australia, what's Queanbeyan (e.g. struggle-town, Queanbe-hole, etc)? :D
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Whoever told you Sydney has a great metro system clearly has not visited Sydney. In my experience we have one of the worst public transport systems in the world; a city spread out over a vast area and traffic jams of vast proportions each morning AND all day Saturday.
Yep, spot on.
Everyone said this when I lived there, but I found it EXTREMELY convenient and over 95% reliable over the two years I was there. There was usually a bus or train coming within 20 minutes, exceptions being late at night.
One of the best features of a good public transport system, which Sydney had, was that the vehicles arrived frequently and departed after a very short delay. A major failing of every US public transport system I've used was the very infrequent arrival of the buses & trains. If I know that I likely won't have to wait more than 15 minutes for a train or a bus, I am MUCH more likely to take the train or bus than I am to drive. I had a car while I was in Australia, and I think in two years I probably used it twice a month.
Is the Sydney system perfect? Nope; lots and lots of room to improve, certainly. Trains and buses were often a few minutes late, and once in a blue moon, cancelled. Cleanliness could be an issue sometimes, and the train security folks were proper dickheads. Overall, compared to what is available in places I've lived within the US, the Sydney system is pretty good.
It's been 10 years since I've ridden the Sydney system or even set foot in Australia, so it's all likely a lot different to how I remember it.
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Personally I think it's quite nice, if quite cold in winter time.
I'm not sure a Swede would find any part of Australia cold.
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There are also those Australians, who consider one of their greatest achievements, is NEVER having worked in Sydney.
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There are also those Australians, who consider one of their greatest achievements, is NEVER having worked in Sydney.
Never met one :-//
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I worked in Sydney for 40 years and retired to Tasmania. Big improvement on the weather (OK, it does get quite cold but the summers make up for that). Big improvement too in the traffic, Tasmania doesn't know the meaning of a traffic jam.
In Sydney, I lived quite near the city (in the inner west area, about 6kms from the CBD) and worked at North Sydney, Public transport was great. When I moved to a job a bit to the west of the city, but still on the north shore, commute times doubled at least. The public transport system is set up to get you from the suburbs to the city and not between neighbouring suburbs. For the last 6 or 7 years I was in Sydney, I didn't have a car and didn't miss it. Now I couldn't survive here without out a car as buses are few and far between.
While Tasmania is a great place to live, I wouldn't like to be looking for a job here, especially in a high tech industry.
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As usual no-one talks about Perth :D
The place is going down the dumps though for traffic but in the whole not a bad place to live. :palm: Get me outa here.
As far as work, I am not really sure, it is quite variable, the mining sector is still around but diminishing, but overall technology in Australia is mostly about R & D or service industry. I did work in a lot of communication service centres till I got into Security and now a bit of consumer work.
Now after 21 years in business for a niche industry I think the benefit of running a small business is dying off so I will consider looking for full/part time work after completing my degree. I hope there will be lots of option available when I finish.
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As usual no-one talks about Perth :D
As it should be :)
Went to school in the west
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As usual no-one talks about Perth :D
Where's Perth? :-//
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:-DD :-DD :-DD
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As usual no-one talks about Perth :D
Where's Perth? :-//
It's a small town in North Dakota with population of 9.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perth,_North_Dakota (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perth,_North_Dakota)
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It's a small town in North Dakota with population of 9.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perth,_North_Dakota (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perth,_North_Dakota)
I am not sure that is tongue in cheek :P or really did not know know where Perth is?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perth) , Western Australia
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It's a small town in North Dakota with population of 9.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perth,_North_Dakota (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perth,_North_Dakota)
Interesting statistics in this article. 69.2 inhabitants per square mile? Wonder where the other 60.2 went...
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It's a small town in North Dakota with population of 9.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perth,_North_Dakota (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perth,_North_Dakota)
Interesting statistics in this article. 69.2 inhabitants per square mile? Wonder where the other 60.2 went...
Multiply, don't subtract. That lovely dwelling has a size of 0.13 square miles. Calculating 69.2 inh/square mile * 0.13 square mile is left as an excercise to the reader. So is finding the missing 0.004 person.
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It's a small town in North Dakota with population of 9.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perth,_North_Dakota (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perth,_North_Dakota)
Interesting statistics in this article. 69.2 inhabitants per square mile? Wonder where the other 60.2 went...
Multiply, don't subtract. That lovely dwelling has a size of 0.13 square miles. Calculating 69.2 inh/square mile * 0.13 square mile is left as an excercise to the reader. So is finding the missing 0.004 person.
The missing .004 could well be the piece I left in the kitchen yesterday whilst chopping onions.
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In any case, all cities here are relatively expensive to buy a house, due to a number of factors - mainly due to reckless government policies
Yeah, like the government approved scam that is negative gearing. Banned or very restricted in most civilised countries, but practically a right you are born with here :palm:
I blame a succession of federal politicians >:D 100% for young first home buyers not being able to afford a home here. Not the immigrants, not the greedy investors, not those who buy their way in here, not the low interest rates - they are effects, not the root cause. When it all comes down to it federal politicians :box: created this mess. Tanya Plibersek :--, the former minister for housing, shares much of the blame.
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... federal politicians :box: created this mess.
How?
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Australia is not like Eastern Europe. The electronics industry is disappearing here in general. Automotive electronics is a basket case and electronics manufacturing in general is dying. But some good R & D is still around where the money is reasonable and there are some niche industries that are growing. If you want a job here, good English is important. It appears you have a good command of written English. I would never hire an embedded guy who cannot spell or has a poor command of English, whether born here or overseas. A bonus is if you have some personality and people skills. Some introverted engineers have trouble finding work because they don't sell themselves well. If you are a foreigner, the odds are slightly biased against you, but the primary concern of employers is what you can do. Even so, some foreigners do masters degrees to increase their chances of getting work. Above all, you will need to demonstrate passion in what you want to do and demonstrate ability. Most companies will test a persons ability before they consider hiring them. If you have strong analogue or digital design skills, or are an ace test development engineer, it will help a lot. If you are an expert with Altium, that will also help because Altium is by far the most popular PCB package used in industry.
Melbourne is one of the world's most livable cities. Better than Sydney in many aspects, except Sydney has more electronics jobs there and they do have a nice harbor. In my opinion the weather in Sydney is better than Melbourne's, but Melbourne is possibly more friendlier, slower paced and has quicker travel times. There is a major road between Sydney and Melbourne. Despite the Sydney harbour, the best view of Sydney is in the driver's rear view mirror :D - sorry Dave.
Adelaide is unique - a very livable city. Easy to get around, great weather. The good news is it has some excellent electronics and medical research industries there. Per capita, they lead Australia in that regard. Their state government have for years done an excellent job in attracting electronics investment. I like Adelaide and have been there a few times for work. Housing is cheaper than Melbourne or Sydney there too. I found the people there to be friendly, but watch out for serial killers.
Canberra has almost no electronics industry. It is full of public servants and is frequented by politicians. Perth has a some electronics industry, as does Brisbane.
In any case, all cities here are relatively expensive to buy a house, due to a number of factors - mainly due to reckless government policies and low interest rates. Renting can also be expensive.
The culture here is pretty ignorant of electronics engineers. Most people have no idea what they do and know nothing about embedded programmers. It is far more aware of the non-embedded software industries than hardware industries. You won't attract chicks by telling them you are an electronics engineer.
Thanks for info. The electronic industry in purest form (analog of course) is dying around the world.
Unfortunately I cannot choose the place it is given to offered job, but company will pay the accomodation (flat probably) and car rent. It can be difficult to drive on non-right side ;-)
Visa can takes few months which is the biggest issue.
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... federal politicians :box: created this mess.
How?
Politicians LOVE high housing prices...
http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2014/08/aussie-politicians-300m-property-portfolio/ (http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2014/08/aussie-politicians-300m-property-portfolio/)
So why would they have any interest in making housing affordable to young first home buyers when they exploit the system they created?
Here is what the politicians have done to make housing for young first home buyers unaffordable...
(1) Recklessly allowing very generous tax avoidance though tax deductions on investment loan interest and outgoings
(2) Recklessly not getting rid of negative gearing
(3) Recklessly keeping capital gains tax on investment houses much lower than the typical marginal income tax rate
(4) Recklessly allowing the rich to collect as many houses as they can
(5) Recklessly allowing foreign buyers to acquire our houses and land
(6) Recklessly adopting the BIG Australia policy - too much immigration
(7) Recklessly imposing a punitively high stamp duty on young first home buyers (State government tax)
Finally...
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/property/chinese-homebuyers-seek-wealth-protection-migration-options-report/story-fniz9vg9-1227023533154?nk=d28aef20a6c0cb7df5139ca9f7f5fe3d (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/property/chinese-homebuyers-seek-wealth-protection-migration-options-report/story-fniz9vg9-1227023533154?nk=d28aef20a6c0cb7df5139ca9f7f5fe3d)
It is up to the government to protect our interests. The politicians in successive governments since the dark days of Bob Hawke have failed young first home buying families, and they have demonstrated they really don't care about this. After all, they have their own interests to take care of.