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Workbench electrical safety advice
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nctnico:

--- Quote from: AVGresponding on December 18, 2022, 11:12:15 am ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on December 18, 2022, 12:10:52 am ---
--- Quote from: themadhippy on December 17, 2022, 11:13:33 pm ---
--- Quote ---he always used the twist-on connectors instead of the spring loaded
--- End quote ---
wire nuts over wagos? sorry but totally disagree

--- End quote ---
Yes. You may disagree but I have had the Wagos (original ones) fail myself as well for the wiring that goes to our washing machine. It is not just hearsay. Ofcourse you'd need to use proper / good quality wire nuts. I only use the ones from Conex and make sure to twist the wires properly. BTW, I have had some formal training for doing work on mains as part of my EE studies so I do know my way around with mains wiring.

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I work as a project (installation) sparks for a UK metropolitan council. We do not use wire nuts, period. I would never use a Wago to make a final connection, and I wouldn't let anyone else do so on one of my sites either. The Clerk of Works would only tell you to re-do it anyway.

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If I may ask: If you are not using wire nuts and not using Wagos, what are you using? Perhaps connectors with levers?
I'll admit that making a good wire nut connection is a bit of an art. And maybe you are talking about different ones. The ones I'm familiar with have a coil made from square wire that cuts into the copper to make an extremely durable connection. When the cap is twisted off, the coil should stay in place. Kind of a reverse wire-wrap connection which is also considered to give a very durable & resillient connection.

Like this:


You'll pull the wires apart before the connection itself.
tooki:

--- Quote from: nctnico on December 17, 2022, 06:23:06 pm ---20 outlets in 60cm would mean they are 3cm apart.

--- End quote ---
Incorrect, because of the arrangement of standard American outlets. As I said: a 10-gang box gives you 20 outlets, because it ends up looking like the picture attached. The spacing between outlets is about 2.5” (around 6cm) apart.

(The image shows a commercial-grade power strip, made of real outlets in an enclosure.)


--- Quote from: nctnico on December 17, 2022, 06:23:06 pm ---And daisy chaining outlets isn't a very good idea because you create a connection at every point (worse when the outlets have push-in contacts). What I have done in my lab is to have use a star like distribution.

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And what’s stopping an electrician from wiring the outlets in a star topology if so desired?

Your original objection to my proposal claims that it would “need” lots of daisy-chaining, yet you then explain how your house has a bunch of outlets wired in a star topology. Do you not see a contradiction there?
JohanH:
There are different rules of thumb how many outlets you could or shouldn't daisy chain (or connect in a star) from a single RCD, but none of this actually matters, unless you have calculated the expected power consumption and short circuit current. By daisy chaining many outlets, in theory the short circuit current will get worse (lower) and you might end up tripping your RCD too slowly. Depending on design, outlets might be under physical stress, which could cause chained wires to get worse connection over time. YMMV
AVGresponding:

--- Quote from: Monkeh on December 18, 2022, 04:21:11 pm ---No maintenance free boxes in your work, then. Luckily you always get to rip up every floor freely or destroy the plaster?

Wagos do need to be properly supported, though - on solid core wiring if they're allowed to move independently to the cable they'll fret with vibration, which is bad.

--- End quote ---

We don't do domestic work, floorboards are not normally a thing in big council buildings, or schools, which are the places we do most of our jobs. Much of it is new build (extensions to schools) or bare structure refurbs.
If we put cables in walls, they are always in (proper) containment, occasionally plastic but usually metal conduit (none of that shitty capping). I dislike the dust and noise generated by chasing in, but I prefer the end result over surface containment, though obviously dado trunking is best for situations where you need a lot of outlets, ie an IT classroom, open plan office etc. I also enjoy making metal conduit up, and seeing the pride in the faces of apprentices when they make their first good piece. I hate working with plastic conduit though...

Where Wagos are used, they'll either be in a Wago box or a Wiska/similar membrane box, or a normal adaptable box, and cable entry will be using stuffing glands.




--- Quote from: themadhippy on December 18, 2022, 04:47:43 pm ---
--- Quote ---  between the fixed wiring and the terminals in the fitting, and with all of it inside the fitting. Far less likely to have any significant mechanical load within a light fitting,
--- End quote ---
and on those annoying led fittings that come with 6 inches of flex hanging out of there sealed enclosure? or were you need to come  off an existing ring under the floor? give me  wagos anyday over the old 3/4/6 terminal landmines

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Agreed, jb's are the work of the devil...

We don't use any fittings like that, all ours are rewireable at the control gear, PIRs too   :-//

I guess if I had to deal with such a thing, I'd use Wagos in a Wago box, and in the past, terminal strip in a choccy box.




--- Quote from: tooki on December 19, 2022, 08:23:02 am ---And what’s stopping an electrician from wiring the outlets in a star topology if so desired?

--- End quote ---

Nothing, provided it's done correctly (each radial would have to be off a fused spur), and the client is prepared to pay for the extra labour and materials involved.




--- Quote from: JohanH on December 19, 2022, 10:51:29 am ---There are different rules of thumb how many outlets you could or shouldn't daisy chain (or connect in a star) from a single RCD, but none of this actually matters, unless you have calculated the expected power consumption and short circuit current. By daisy chaining many outlets, in theory the short circuit current will get worse (lower) and you might end up tripping your RCD too slowly. Depending on design, outlets might be under physical stress, which could cause chained wires to get worse connection over time. YMMV

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I'd be surprised to see that happen in a typical domestic environment, unless it was a very big house it's unlikely the cable would get long enough.
themadhippy:

--- Quote ---but usually metal conduit
--- End quote ---
going off topic,but weres all the black metal conduit gone? used to be everywhere,now its a special order.
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