General > General Technical Chat

Working as a self-employed engineer

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pidcon:

--- Quote from: VK3DRB on July 11, 2020, 04:17:19 am ---
--- Quote from: EEVblog on July 10, 2020, 11:25:38 am ---
--- Quote from: pidcon on July 03, 2020, 05:10:08 am ---I am interested to know how many of you are working as a self-employed engineer? Do you run your own company or work on a contract job from time to time? If you could share your experiences on how you got started and how you kept going, that would be great. Thanks.
--- End quote ---

Majority of people would start by doing odd jobs on the side to their day job, the so called "midnight engineer". When the jobs get too much then you quit your day job and transition to full time contracting/consultancy.

--- End quote ---

We call that moonlighting in Victoria.

You cannot do that where there is conflict of interest. Working for IBM, I had to get permission to fix VCR's on the side because they contained microprocessors. They read the riot act to two IBM engineers in Perth for designing on the side a modem for the Commodore Vic 20 in the early 1980's. There are heaps of other examples from this authoritarian company that beggars belief. Another example... in 1987, I wanted to buy shares in Microsoft soon not long after they floated. I was told by IBM if I or my immediate family members bought shares in Microsoft and they found out, I would be subject to disciplinary action. It turns out IBM were big hypocrites. In hindsight, I wish I had told them where to go.

More recently, a Japanese automotive electronics company I worked with owned ALL intellectual property you designed in your own time whilst employed there. Even if you wrote Harry Potter - they owned it. You could not join the company unless you signed a contract stating the company owned all intellectual property you developed whist employed there - during working hours or out of working hours.

One should be very careful if considering moonlighting. Taking on board common sense, I would say you can do stuff on the side providing:

- It is not related to you employment.
- It is not related to the products you work on at your employment.
- It does not impact you employment in any way (interruptions, phone calls, tired and worn out doing two jobs etc).
- You are not using company resources (oscilloscopes etc).

Working for your self creates a sense of freedom to do you want, but some companions deny you the right to engage in similar work to theirs for a period a one or two years afterwards, as per your employment contract.

--- End quote ---

I know what you mean regarding companies wanting to own everything you do in and out of working hours. Even working in a teaching job in Asia, the terms in the contract states that the college owns all the IP whether it's related to the job or not, and ironically there is little to no resources to build anything of significant value at the college anyway. The legalese in the contract can sometimes be brief and vague at the same time, it can be interpreted as 'we own everything you've ever worked on in the past, present, and future'. I can't see how anyone would be productive beyond the scope of the day job.

A friend of mine once mentioned that a certain multinational defence company allowed their employees to have a side business, as long it is in a different industry, like bakery or art. I think that is a much fairer deal.

SerieZ:
How is that even legal?
The Company owns the IP I create which it employed me to create. If I would create, say, a Video Game, something my employer did not hire me to do, they would not own the IP even if it used the same tools (not licenses!) I use at work.

nctnico:

--- Quote from: SerieZ on July 15, 2020, 12:32:29 pm ---How is that even legal?
The Company owns the IP I create which it employed me to create. If I would create, say, a Video Game, something my employer did not hire me to do, they would not own the IP even if it used the same tools (not licenses!) I use at work.

--- End quote ---
It depends very much on the laws of the country you work in so there isn't a clear cut answer to whether it is legal or not.

SiliconWizard:

--- Quote from: nctnico on July 15, 2020, 05:28:43 pm ---
--- Quote from: SerieZ on July 15, 2020, 12:32:29 pm ---How is that even legal?
The Company owns the IP I create which it employed me to create. If I would create, say, a Video Game, something my employer did not hire me to do, they would not own the IP even if it used the same tools (not licenses!) I use at work.

--- End quote ---
It depends very much on the laws of the country you work in so there isn't a clear cut answer to whether it is legal or not.

--- End quote ---

Absolutely. You need to carefully look both at laws and your work contract.

In many countries, if you work as an employee, the company indeed owns the IP of what you create, even outside of your work hours. Whether the fact it's in a different field matters depends on your specific laws.

Over here, if it's related in some way to the field you work in as an employee, the company usually owns the IP. But there's a second thing to consider. Outside of IP matters, in order for you to have a job "on the side" you get paid for, you usually need to ask your employer. If it could compete with the company, they can prevent you from doing it. If it doesn't, they normally can't prevent you - but in any case, they normally need to know. Which is a problem, because even if you do something completely unrelated to your employed job, your employer may start questioning your loyalty, or your interest in your current job. That may be different in other countries.

Wilksey:
Don't quit your day job.

Not yet anyway, unless you are going balls out on a venture and are 100% confident it'll work then you would be better off "moonlighting", if your company's employment contract allows.

A number of good ideas stem from individuals or a few colleagues whose company they work for isn't interested in what their idea is and they go off and quietly start it on their own, the risk is that more than likely the idea will be for the same sector as your current employer.

A lot of people I have spoken to about getting clients etc have all said the same, previous contacts, which is great if you have some, if you are an engineer stuffed deep in the bowels of the company then you might not have had the chance to gain said contacts, and with all of the latest GDPR changes in various guises it's not all that clear on what you can and can't do.

So, my take on it is depending on what you are wanting to do, look at local (ish) companies and try and identify weak spots, you'll find that going to some "networking events" boring as the proverbial as they are can get you talking to some interesting folk, some whose industry might surprise you as to their needs, if you wish to send an email then you have to give them the option to "opt out" of future emails, so my understanding is you can send 1 email and put an opt out disclaimer and if they don't opt out you are OK to follow up the email but not make a nuisance of yourself, seems to be the done thing these days with nobody getting into any hot water whilst doing so.

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