OT Panther tank found in mans basement.

[rollatorwieltje]

Someone made pictures of the article in the comments of this Facebook post:
https://www.facebook.com/Panzerfabrik/posts/1041639365846536

I love this comment:
They need to drain his local lake to find the u_boat 

Maybe that's the submarine Finland was looking for. The guy was on holiday

[Fraser]

@rollatorwieltje

Thanks for the link and info.

On the face of it this looks like a very silly situation on many levels.

1. What idiot in the UK scraps a beautiful Panther tank ?
2. The tank was shipped into Germany from the UK and is documented so not exactly a secret 'stash'
3. What brainless idiot raised seizure order on a tank that was demiliterized and documented ?
4. If the facebook comments are accurate.... what idiot wants to scrap three British Churchill Tanks and this one as well ? Such destruction of historic artifacts should be criminal vandalism.
5. It would almost appear that the prosecutors just want to punish the collector using red tape.
6. I see no comments on the collector being a bad person and he was a child in WWII so he is no war criminal. He is obviously a committed WWII collector and that is not a crime in my opinion. I suspect he is so keen on the WWII period that the prosecutors in Berlin thought that he might have some art stolen during the War. That seems very aggressive on the part of the authorities.
7. Are the German authorities so petty as to try to punish anyone who is fascinated with WWII. It happened, it can't be undone and I feel no ill will towards Germany these days. Time for the establishment to accept what happened and move on in this case me thinks.
8. Give the man his toys back I say.

Aurora

[LabSpokane]

In the U.S., we would make this guy put the tracks back on so it could be driven in the next local parade. I'm curious as to what this person has been accused of as to merit this sort of treatment. We fought the Germans in WWII, but even our own military would not consider destroying German historical artifacts. We have German tanks and aircraft right next to our own in museums.

[GreyWoolfe]

In the U.S., we would make this guy out the tracks back on so it could be driven in the next local parade. I'm curious as to what this person has been accused of as to merit this sort of treatment. We fought the Germans in WWII, but even our own military would not consider destroying German historical artifacts. We have German tanks and aircraft right next to our own in museums.

I have been to the tank museum at the Aberdeen Proving Grounds.  An amazing place.  It was very moving to take pictures of and stand next to the historical artifacts.  I saw families with small children and even they were quiet and well behaved as if instinctively realizing that this wasn't the place to misbehave.

[Mechanical Menace]

In the U.S., we would make this guy out the tracks back on so it could be driven in the next local parade.

Does nothing about that statement make you feel sick to the stomach just a little bit? The whole idea of a local parade...

I'm going to reserve judgement on his treatment until more information comes out so in the future I may change stance, but my gut feeling right now is that he should be commended for restoring and preserving things many (including myself) would see as obsolete and fit for nothing but melting down until they realise how few are left.

[Fraser]

OOOOops ! Look what happens if you pull out in front of a tank 

I bet the 18 year old lady driver (who was unhurt) will be more careful at junctions in future.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jun/03/british-battle-tank-crushes-womans-car-in-germany

Aurora

[LabSpokane]

In the U.S., we would make this guy out the tracks back on so it could be driven in the next local parade.

Does nothing about that statement make you feel sick to the stomach just a little bit? The whole idea of a local parade...

Nope.  I see no point in running away from history.  These artifacts help us remember.  Hopefully we remember the lesson to not ever do it again. 

[nctnico]

In the U.S., we would make this guy out the tracks back on so it could be driven in the next local parade.

Does nothing about that statement make you feel sick to the stomach just a little bit? The whole idea of a local parade...

Nope.  I see no point in running away from history.  These artifacts help us remember.  Hopefully we remember the lesson to not ever do it again.

I agree. History tends to repeat itself especially if we forget the history. The stupidity to put our ingenuity at work in order to kill eachother...

[G7PSK]

@Whales

I have to agree regarding the US tank driver. I was shocked that they shot him dead. But then I do not know if he was carrying a side arm or what other potential threat he presented to the police officers and public.

Aurora

Not really. It's quite depressing the modus operandi of the US police appears to be shoot first ask questions later. Especially if your skin colour is a darker shade. They should learn a thing or two from our bobbies (ok, except for those Manchester ones that recently tasered and beat a young lad to death, mistaken identity).

It is not really surprising that the US police shoot so quickly, I read recently that at least one police officer is killed a day in the US whilst on duty, seems that they are considered fair game by some US citizens.
As for scrapping tanks after the war many such items ended up in the scrap yard and some of the yards did not cut them all up but hung onto them in order to sell whole at a future point, also the army takes older tanks and uses them for target practice and testing new anti tank shells, after a while they are to shot up and get hauled to the scrap yard and newer models put in their place for targets.

[Mechanical Menace]

Nope.  I see no point in running away from history.  These artifacts help us remember.  Hopefully we remember the lesson to not ever do it again.

Oh I don't see the point in running away from history, I just don't like local parades/fairs/etc lol.

[Delta]

It is not really surprising that the US police shoot so quickly, I read recently that at least one police officer is killed a day in the US whilst on duty, seems that they are considered fair game by some US citizens.

The arms race between the cops and the citizens aside, shooting people in the back as they are running away can't ever be justified. At that point, cops are fair game, because shooting them is self defence.

It's an impossible situation. You run away, they murder you. You shoot them first, you got to jail or some other cops murder you or the state murders you later.

What about option 3: erm, don't run away from the police?


As for your ridiculous statement about the Met police, they didn't murder Ian Tomlinson, he died of a heart attack due to a life of alcohol and heroin abuse.

[donotdespisethesnake]

As for your ridiculous statement about the Met police, they didn't murder Ian Tomlinson, he died of a heart attack due to a life of alcohol and heroin abuse.

Yes, it's the duty of every citizen to be fit and healthy in order to survive a vicious unprovoked assault by police.

[Monkeh]

As for your ridiculous statement about the Met police, they didn't murder Ian Tomlinson, he died of a heart attack due to a life of alcohol and heroin abuse.

No, he died of internal bleeding brought on by abdominal trauma. His elbow struck his liver when he fell.

Yes, his own abuse left him vulnerable to this, but he didn't just fall over.

[Jesset1996.5]

Dang! How big is this mans basement?  An ati aircraft gun, a tank and a torpedo! I shure hope it all went to a museum, they look like there in great condition!

[Delta]

As for your ridiculous statement about the Met police, they didn't murder Ian Tomlinson, he died of a heart attack due to a life of alcohol and heroin abuse.

No, he died of internal bleeding brought on by abdominal trauma. His elbow struck his liver when he fell.

Yes, his own abuse left him vulnerable to this, but he didn't just fall over.

and "Yes, it's the duty of every citizen to be fit and healthy in order to survive a vicious unprovoked assault by police"

The copper who pushed him over was known to be an arsehole, and the shove was a dickish thing to do, but it was hardly "vicious assault".  Be VERY careful.of calling this murder - if YOU accidentally bump in to someone in the street, and that person happens to be a smackhead on deaths door who falls over and later dies due to having such a weak grasp on life - do you think that YOU should be held accountable for their death?

[Macbeth]

As for your ridiculous statement about the Met police, they didn't murder Ian Tomlinson, he died of a heart attack due to a life of alcohol and heroin abuse.

No, he died of internal bleeding brought on by abdominal trauma. His elbow struck his liver when he fell.

Yes, his own abuse left him vulnerable to this, but he didn't just fall over.

and "Yes, it's the duty of every citizen to be fit and healthy in order to survive a vicious unprovoked assault by police"

The copper who pushed him over was known to be an arsehole, and the shove was a dickish thing to do, but it was hardly "vicious assault".  Be VERY careful.of calling this murder - if YOU accidentally bump in to someone in the street, and that person happens to be a smackhead on deaths door who falls over and later dies due to having such a weak grasp on life - do you think that YOU should be held accountable for their death?

He didn't commit murder, but surely manslaughter.

[Deathwish]

It is not really surprising that the US police shoot so quickly, I read recently that at least one police officer is killed a day in the US whilst on duty, seems that they are considered fair game by some US citizens.

The arms race between the cops and the citizens aside, shooting people in the back as they are running away can't ever be justified. At that point, cops are fair game, because shooting them is self defence.

It's an impossible situation. You run away, they murder you. You shoot them first, you got to jail or some other cops murder you or the state murders you later.

What about option 3: erm, don't run away from the police?


As for your ridiculous statement about the Met police, they didn't murder Ian Tomlinson, he died of a heart attack due to a life of alcohol and heroin abuse.

How about young men on underground trains then.

[EEVblog]

Guys, the gun/cops/murder stuff ends now please.