Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus

[cdev]

This is a very good read, thank you for posting that. Saved and going to print it out and put it in a page protector to have it handy.

Pretty decent information about risk of infection. Particularly relevant in these "opening up" times. Written by an immunologist. With references. A 12 min read and no video. From 5 days ago (but updated since). Worthwhile in my view.

The Risks - Know Them - Avoid Them

https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them?fbclid=IwAR0

[nctnico]

BBC News: Coronavirus antibody test a 'positive development'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52656808

My wife managed to procure a few Covid-19 antibody tests (according to the documentation they should be 90% accurate) because we got a flu in the beginning of March. We both tested negative but the procedure is more involved than simply putting a drop of blood in a test. The tests needs quite a large amount of blood and I'm still not sure whether I followed the procedures correctly. So no conclusive results. All in all I can't really recommend buying a test. Better wait for a government test program. Oh, and sticking a needle in your finger to draw blood sucks.

[DrG]

BBC News: Coronavirus antibody test a 'positive development'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52656808

My wife managed to procure a few Covid-19 antibody tests (according to the documentation they should be 90% accurate) because we got a flu in the beginning of March. We both tested negative but the procedure is more involved than simply putting a drop of blood in a test. The tests needs quite a large amount of blood and I'm still not sure whether I followed the procedures correctly. So no conclusive results. All in all I can't really recommend buying a test. Better wait for a government test program. Oh, and sticking a needle in your finger to draw blood sucks.

I am interested, how did they define the 90% accuracy? Hope this isn't viewed as off-topic, but it really does interest me and has a lot of bearing on how these tests are advertised.

To many people 90% accurate suggests this result:



But, one can, legitimately, operationally define 90% accuracy to include this result:



I know it seems ridiculous, but there are tests that lean toward the latter result AND they are acceptable if they are very cheap and better tests exists. In that case, they are something along the lines of a cheap screen to select candidates for the more expensive and better test. Also, depending on the the beta weights for the 4 quadrants, the latter result can be quite useful if the cost of a 'miss' is many times the cost of a 'false alarm'

Anybody remember the old Signal Detection Theory stuff with sensitivity and bias?



edit: attachments

[nctnico]

BBC News: Coronavirus antibody test a 'positive development'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52656808

My wife managed to procure a few Covid-19 antibody tests (according to the documentation they should be 90% accurate) because we got a flu in the beginning of March. We both tested negative but the procedure is more involved than simply putting a drop of blood in a test. The tests needs quite a large amount of blood and I'm still not sure whether I followed the procedures correctly. So no conclusive results. All in all I can't really recommend buying a test. Better wait for a government test program. Oh, and sticking a needle in your finger to draw blood sucks.

I am interested, how did they define the 90% accuracy? Hope this isn't viewed as off-topic, but it really does interest me and has a lot of bearing on how these tests are advertised.

The instruction leaflet says 'based on a clinical trial' but I have not been able to find any approval for official use. Only a Canadian government page which says 'under review'.

[james_s]

How many more off-topic posts do I have to delete in this thread before get the message to stay on topic?

The whole thread is largely what I'd consider off topic under normal circumstances, but given the extremely broad impacts of what is going on in the world right now I don't know that it's a bad thing necessarily although it would be nice to keep all of the Covid related discussion in one thread rather than having it seeping into everything. Personally I'd be happy to have the entire thread wiped out once this pandemic blows over and things settle into something resembling normal.

[cdev]

I just want to clarify that I was NOT suggesting a one way deferment of rent and mortgage payments only for tenants, I was saying that efforts should be made to push those kinds of monthly, income dependent bills for everybody into the future, including landlords payments on their mortgages. In particular efforts should be made to prevent large scale disruptions for people rather than forcing people into unsafe situations. (Or burying people in medical debt).

Suppose they did start evicting poor eople for nonpayment of rent, when they couldnt work out onto the streets. Adding large numbers of families, including children, retired people, everybody who doesnt have the money, becoming homeless and likely losing everything they own, unless they can afford a storage space to the disaster. Already, huge numbers of people have lost their jobs and healthcare coverage.

And it will also make the epidemic far worse because people in homeless shelters cant social distance, they don't have the personal space people living in a home do.

Whatever society asks people to do, it must make sense and be fair. It shouldnt be based on rigid inflexible rules. Because this is an unprecedented situation.

[DrG]

BBC News: Coronavirus antibody test a 'positive development'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52656808

My wife managed to procure a few Covid-19 antibody tests (according to the documentation they should be 90% accurate) because we got a flu in the beginning of March. We both tested negative but the procedure is more involved than simply putting a drop of blood in a test. The tests needs quite a large amount of blood and I'm still not sure whether I followed the procedures correctly. So no conclusive results. All in all I can't really recommend buying a test. Better wait for a government test program. Oh, and sticking a needle in your finger to draw blood sucks.

I am interested, how did they define the 90% accuracy? Hope this isn't viewed as off-topic, but it really does interest me and has a lot of bearing on how these tests are advertised.

The instruction leaflet says 'based on a clinical trial' but I have not been able to find any approval for official use. Only a Canadian government page which says 'under review'.

oic The wave has started, as we all knew it would. I did some looking around and found this test for $169 https://www.healthlabs.com/covid-19-antibody-test?pid=9007812&iid=&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvq_4m5S06QIVhOiGCh0NwgQuEAAYAyAAEgKsw_D_BwE

Their description of the accuracy....

The accuracy of a lab test is measured in "sensitivity" and "specificity". Sensitivity is the test's ability to correctly identify those with antibodies (true positives) and specificity is the test's ability to identify those without the antibodies (true negatives). According to independent studies from Abbott Labs, Quest Diagnostics and the University of Washington, this test has a sensitivity of 100% and a specificity of 99.6% making it the most accurate COVID-19 antibody test currently available.

...which *sounds* pretty darn good to me.

Seems you go to one of their "Over 4,500 CLIA-Certified Labs U.S. Labs" and get a blood draw. No, you can't use your health insurance, but you can use PayPal.

BTW: ducking out of the page gets you a 10% discount offer.

I just don't know how good this is and I also don't know what these products/services are going to be like in the next few months...I do know we will be seeing a whole lot more of them.

Way back when (Apr 3) https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/covid-19-virus/msg2997418/#msg2997418 We were talking about the idea of a so-called immunity certificate - looks like it is here.

[nctnico]

Still a test only shows if you have had it or not. There is no guarantee you won't be infected again and if so that you'll survive the next time too. Curiosity though... The bottom line is that I'll still need to plan for some 'down time'.

For sure antibody testing will be a big thing in the near future.

[EEVblog]

How many more off-topic posts do I have to delete in this thread before get the message to stay on topic?

The whole thread is largely what I'd consider off topic under normal circumstances, but given the extremely broad impacts of what is going on in the world right now I don't know that it's a bad thing necessarily although it would be nice to keep all of the Covid related discussion in one thread rather than having it seeping into everything.

Yes, but people just can't help themselves by getting into a politics and other rubbish.

[DrG]

How many more off-topic posts do I have to delete in this thread before get the message to stay on topic?

The whole thread is largely what I'd consider off topic under normal circumstances, but given the extremely broad impacts of what is going on in the world right now I don't know that it's a bad thing necessarily although it would be nice to keep all of the Covid related discussion in one thread rather than having it seeping into everything.

Yes, but people just can't help themselves by getting into a politics and other rubbish.

Yes, I suppose that is true. It is almost impossible for some level of politics [not] to come into it because, well, Governments handle pandemics and the entire planet is impacted by this one.

If the topic has to go, I will not whine. I will say this, in all honesty, I have read so much about this topic in so many places, I can't even believe how many hours that I have spent doing so.

As far as any EE or similar forum...This place has been BY FAR the most open and the place that has had the most up-to-date content posted and with the most intelligent discussion. I stress the most open and the most tolerant of wide viewpoints (some of them so offensive to me personally that I have wretched a bit when reading them). This was also true in a previous thread that was closed.

The only thing worse than closing the thread or the topic would be to only allow a certain viewpoint. I have seen plenty of that, including on EE forums.

I get signal-to-noise ratios and if it gets locked, so be it and sorry if I contributed to the reason.

[SilverSolder]

Things can get a little too open-minded.  Don't forget that if you open your mind far enough, you risk the contents falling out! 

[Electro Detective]

Re anticipated vaccine chat above

When they release the two working corona vaccines required,

one for confirmed affected victims

and a related one for prevention of corona

I will be glad to queue up first and give the latter a go 
since I haven't copped a winter sniffle yet, nor has anyone for miles around afaik,
and YT sneezing and coughing just doesn't happen anymore
due to sheer willpower and lots of practice in social distance practicing public gatherings, whilst acquiring essential items,
even in the most extreme dusty conditions 

But before I volunteer for that 'do the right thing' concerned citizen activity,
I'll take a random sample acquired to an independent testing lab or three, unaware of what it is,
and await their reports

I'm confident it's all legit, and a waste of holiday money I'll never get to spend now anyway,
so how much can it cost to do one's own verification before getting jabbed?

It's not much different to testing a few suspect label rated no name fuses in a bulk buy,
or other electronics components that may or may not quite do what's written on the tin

[jeffheath]

Still a test only shows if you have had it or not. There is no guarantee you won't be infected again and if so that you'll survive the next time too.

Well I'm glad you have such a positive outlook 

[gorge441]

I think this pandemic is really having a good effect on our work...

[thinkfat]

I think this pandemic is really having a good effect on our work...

Less of the meeting rubbish, more of the doing stuff kind. If only I could avoid all the distractions of the home environment... That's my biggest detriment to productivity right now.

[paulca]

I think this pandemic is really having a good effect on our work...

Less of the meeting rubbish, more of the doing stuff kind. If only I could avoid all the distractions of the home environment... That's my biggest detriment to productivity right now.

Be careful what you wish for.  I have no distractions.  No contact.  I also have depression and while it probably helped the first 2-4 weeks, my routines have begun to slowly evaporate.   My sleep has become problematic.  My motivation dropping to near zero.  But I have project managers breathing down my neck asking me for progress on a project that they put me on because it required an experienced developer... but it's not a development project, it's just that management are too stupid to realise that.  I have barely the slightest clue what I'm doing.

And while I still look forward to 5 o'clock to "get out of work".  When that time comes and I close all the work windows and browser tabs, I'm left sitting alone in silence again with nothing to do and no motivation to do it anyway.

[bd139]

Exercise helps. After eating dinner I go for a walk for a couple of hours. Then I come back and shitpost on here, buy something I don’t need off amazon and go to bed and watch YouTube for an hour.

Next day I am wired and full of energy again.

[SilverSolder]

I think this pandemic is really having a good effect on our work...

Less of the meeting rubbish, more of the doing stuff kind. If only I could avoid all the distractions of the home environment... That's my biggest detriment to productivity right now.

Be careful what you wish for.  I have no distractions.  No contact.  I also have depression and while it probably helped the first 2-4 weeks, my routines have begun to slowly evaporate.   My sleep has become problematic.  My motivation dropping to near zero.  But I have project managers breathing down my neck asking me for progress on a project that they put me on because it required an experienced developer... but it's not a development project, it's just that management are too stupid to realise that.  I have barely the slightest clue what I'm doing.

And while I still look forward to 5 o'clock to "get out of work".  When that time comes and I close all the work windows and browser tabs, I'm left sitting alone in silence again with nothing to do and no motivation to do it anyway.

Do some exercise - get some hand weights, do some pushups, situps, go for a walk.  You will feel 1,000,000,000 x 10^22 times better!

[SilverSolder]

Great minds think alike, @bd139! 

[GlennSprigg]

Don't hold your breath waiting for a vaccine 

Decades later they are still working on magic cures for the common cold, re-badged flu, hay fever, winter morning sniffles,
(...)

Sorry for being naive maybe here, I certainly do not know all vaccines in existence.

But do we actually have any working vaccine to protect effectively against any coronavirus at this point?

You're far from naive mate      application for 'sorry' acceptance has been declined 



The long     and short answer is a NO, but test tube incompetents and or crooks desperate to stay in business will say YES for a colored water placebo 'trial release'
or wimp out with  'getting closer to a breakthrough..' anyway, as they have done so-o-o many times before.. which few choose to remember

to keep us hanging on, like watching a cliff hanger movie   
or a classic DJ Youtube video with a big dollar dumpster score on the bench > will it work, easy fix,
or magic smoke, sparks n flames?   

anyone with a clue about how symptoms, diseases, viri/viruses, and how the body immune system works, reacts, accepts and rejects, would know it's impossible,
and not everyone has the same physiology and tolerance to afflictions, and or drugs pumped into them to combat symptoms or ailments.

and that's aside from the shady science and pharma companies keeping the little people and gubbermint departments in the dark about ALL such matters
and or milking any situation involving the latest greatest 'hitherto unknown and UNSEEN' corona/covid badged mortality maker for all it's worth

Most drug companies originated back in the 1800s (perhaps earlier?) as street dope dealers, mickey finn muggers, and snake oil floggers
then became 'legit' with all the money and property they ripped off the hard working faith suckers over decades,
look up their 'history', that's if they haven't sent in their Wiki and Google well paid 'moderator' trolls yet, to 'censor' it up a bit, or soften the dark bits accordingly 


Any landslide or diversionary comments, silly charts and cash for comment 'science' goon bully talk to sway and confuse,
won't ever change that fact that there will be NO zip nada nein etc working vaccine for corona, camry, corolla, Hi-Lux, Swine,
Mad Cow, Fat Cow, Bird Flu, Pig Flu, Bat Flu, 'pick a Country' Flu, Hollywood Flu, Stupid Flu, (enter your fav flu here),  any time soon
 

The only current working vaccines and preventative medicine drugs are the old school boring stuff > eat well, stay healthy in body/mind and be reasonably fit,
and only indulge in pain relief poppers or booze when absolutely necessary   

and hope the bastards don't poison your community's water supply or food chain (old school 'OUTBREAK')
or stick you with a 'mandatory vaccine' the administers would not dare jab themselves with
or their family, friends and cohorts,
because that suss stuff is reserved only for clean tax payer guinea pigs,
not the filthy minded rats in human form trading as.. well you can probably guess by now

--------------------------

I think I gabbed it too much again    so getting set for the conspiracy deniers to pummel me once more,
= troll calling, baiting, off topic, chasing off new members, report, hassle the admin, ousted,
all that good stuff, for whatever it takes to suppress any boat rockers popping questions 

I'll admit they are good at it, versatile, discrete teamwork play, extremely persistent, so credit given where due 

WOW!!!!.... Now I really know what a 'TROLL' is. Says nothing positive in life, knocks & abuses everyone & everything, solves nothing with their 'views', and contributes nothing except rants of self appraisal and bitterness.  Why are they so ANGRY in 'life' ?? 

[paulca]

WOW!!!!.... Now I really know what a 'TROLL' is. Says nothing positive in life, knocks & abuses everyone & everything, solves nothing with their 'views', and contributes nothing except rants of self appraisal and bitterness.  Why are they so ANGRY in 'life' ?? 

Just add people to your ignore list.

[nctnico]

Exercise helps. After eating dinner I go for a walk for a couple of hours. Then I come back and shitpost on here, buy something I don’t need off amazon and go to bed and watch YouTube for an hour.

Next day I am wired and full of energy again.

LOL! 

I just came back from the swimming pool which has been open since yesterday. Lots of happy faces.
I've never been very sporty and considering me a sportive person would be an insult to every sportive person but I have to admit being physically active benefits my work productivity. I've made some new friends in the process too.

[paulca]

I've been trying to motivate to go for a cycle once a day, but so far it's been every other day and only about 2 miles / 5 minutes.

Haven't cycled in years.

[nctnico]

I've been trying to motivate to go for a cycle once a day, but so far it's been every other day and only about 2 miles / 5 minutes.

Haven't cycled in years.

Aim to go out for at least 20 minutes and try to find something interesting to cycle to. I do cycling as well but slow and preferably over different routes.

[bd139]

I keep trying to buy a bike but can't get what I want because everyone has decided to do exactly the same thing and has bought them all . On a positive note this means I'm being pushed back to when all the people who bought nice ones during the covid-19 are trying to shift them on ebay