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Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus

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coppice:

--- Quote from: SilverSolder on July 08, 2020, 01:38:24 pm ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on July 08, 2020, 12:59:01 pm ---
--- Quote from: james_s on July 08, 2020, 05:26:59 am ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on July 07, 2020, 12:47:19 pm ---None of that surprises me and don't get me started on the BML movement, who've lost all credability with many people. If they really cared about anyone's life, they wouldn't have acted in such a wrecless manner. They're mostly a load of pathetic social justice warriors who are pissed off because they've not been allowed to socialise during lockdown and needed a release. I'm all of wiping out racism, but this is not the way to do it.

--- End quote ---

I think that's part of it, but it also has the appearance of being largely an anti-capitalism and anti-authority movement. In my area much of what was going on felt just like the old Occupy movement that fizzled out several years ago. People capitalizing on a tragic event to get the masses on board with a movement that a lot of people otherwise wouldn't be on board with. It's far easier to drum up support when you can just call anyone who isn't a fanatical supporter a racist. Between the pandemic and other events there was a perfect storm that created a nearly ideal environment to try to cultivate a revolution. Like happened with the Occupy movement, I suspect it will get fragmented and fizzle out eventually. They start out with a noble goal but then it becomes chaotic and disorganized and more people try to piggyback their own pet agendas.

--- End quote ---
We need more moderates to stand up and say, it's possible to dissagree with the many of the BLM's objectives and thier behaviour without being racist.  Worryingly there seems to be a fair number of them who are extremists who hate white people. There are numerous videos of them harassing white people, getting them to apologise for being white. If they did that to me, I'd like to say, I'd tell them to bugger off, but in reality, I'd just ignore them, pretend I don't speak English, or something, to avoid being set upon by an angry mob.

The authorities need to clamp down on them for their criminal acts ranging from vandalism and theft, to breaking the rules on social distancing.

--- End quote ---

What stirred it all up, was videos of obscene police brutality against a black person being widely circulated.   You do get that, right?   We wouldn't be having this discussion if that hadn't happened.

--- End quote ---
No. What stirred it up was millions almost trapped in their homes for months until they were grumpy and ready for trouble. Many of us were just wondering what spark would actually trigger social unrest, especially as we moved into summer, when most rioting occurs. The video showing police brutality was just the right spark at the right time. Many other gruesome videos have come and gone without more than a little grumbling in the press. If George Floyd hadn't been killed there would have been something else to trigger rioting. Bad things happen with enough regularity there's always another just around the corner.

maginnovision:
I definitely think the being locked up was a huge part. The other thing is this is one of the very few instances where BLM actually found an incident that was very clearly wrong. There are still some issues with it but he didn't have a gun, he didn't beat any cops... He was not actively endangering anyone the cops there just didn't seem to care and wanted him to be 100% complacent. He should have been too but if he was on drugs, and had his other issues I can see where the problems came from. Unlike most every other incident BLM rioted(no I can't use another word, there is ALWAYS violence in response) about though he wasn't going to hurt anyone and didn't even seem to have that intention. He sure as hell wasn't going to run away either.

You can see now virtually any police action is met with more protest or riots, more violence within the affected communities which is really awful. If the cops show up they'll be attacked or fired so they don't. The fact that BLM is an oxymoron doesn't help(they only care about blacks killed by police, most black lives they couldn't give a shit about). God help us(just a turn of phrase) this stuff is still going on if Donald Trump gets elected again... Or if Joe Biden is. We just need people to think logically for a minute relax and see what we can make happen and see if it does anything. However I think some of these potential "fixes" are bad like sending social workers to domestic incidents(the most unpredictable as they are VERY passionate incidents). Even if people do stop rioting and protesting and attacking vehicles I'm not sure how things get better at this point.

SilverSolder:

A lot of things can be improved at relatively modest cost.  For domestic incidents, send trained police AND social worker(s), together.  Weed out bad cops from the force, incidents like we saw are unnecessary and should never occur with a modern professional police force in a democratic country.


--- Quote from: coppice on July 08, 2020, 02:14:58 pm ---What stirred it [the rioting] up was millions almost trapped in their homes for months until they were grumpy and ready for trouble. Many of us were just wondering what spark would actually trigger social unrest, especially as we moved into summer, when most rioting occurs. The video showing police brutality was just the right spark at the right time. Many other gruesome videos have come and gone without more than a little grumbling in the press. If George Floyd hadn't been killed there would have been something else to trigger rioting. Bad things happen with enough regularity there's always another just around the corner.

--- End quote ---

Are you saying it is OK to have a steady stream of injustices from an undisciplined and unprofessional police force as long as there are no riots?

coppice:

--- Quote from: SilverSolder on July 08, 2020, 03:52:09 pm ---A lot of things can be improved at relatively modest cost.  For domestic incidents, send trained police AND social worker(s), together.  Weed out bad cops from the force, incidents like we saw are unnecessary and should never occur with a modern professional police force in a democratic country.

--- End quote ---
Many countries have massively reduced support for those with mental issues in recent decades, like this magically makes them go away. The result is that much of the homeless population of major cities are people with mental health issues, who end up as troublemakers through no fault of their own. Instead of trained mental health professionals dealing with them, the police end up dealing with them. Not only are the police not trained for this, it must piss them off. I'm sure most of the police who deal with these problems feel sorry for the people they are dealing with, but there isn't much they can do. The last thing these people need is social workers. They need proper health professionals. This isn't cheap, through. The whole reason proper services were defunded is it saved a lot.

Frequently when one of these brutal videos gets picked up by the media it turns out the key policeman in the video has a track record of brutal treatment of suspects, typically being an equal opportunity thug who has beaten up suspects of all races. There seems to be much more an issue of rogue violent police in the US than racist ones. Blame the city governments. They oversee the police, and if they have not addressed these long term problems they clearly don't care. Right now we see so many US mayors acting like they are pawns in the game.


--- Quote from: SilverSolder on July 08, 2020, 03:52:09 pm ---
--- Quote from: coppice on July 08, 2020, 02:14:58 pm ---What stirred it [the rioting] up was millions almost trapped in their homes for months until they were grumpy and ready for trouble. Many of us were just wondering what spark would actually trigger social unrest, especially as we moved into summer, when most rioting occurs. The video showing police brutality was just the right spark at the right time. Many other gruesome videos have come and gone without more than a little grumbling in the press. If George Floyd hadn't been killed there would have been something else to trigger rioting. Bad things happen with enough regularity there's always another just around the corner.

--- End quote ---

Are you saying it is OK to have a steady stream of injustices from an undisciplined and unprofessional police force as long as there are no riots?

--- End quote ---
What a stupid response.

PlainName:

--- Quote ---Weed out bad cops from the force, incidents like we saw are unnecessary
--- End quote ---

Easier said than done. Before world+dog carried live cameras 24/7, any problem would basically boil down to the cop's word against whoever, and since the cop is notionally completely trustworthy (else he wouldn't be a cop) and the other person likely a perp (otherwise he wouldn't be nicked) it's obvious who is likely to be believed. The cop probably has backup from his colleagues too.

Also bear in mind that not every put upon person is playing a straight bat. Give your average tea leaf half and inch and he'll take all eight. The reason they are criminals is because they have no compunction about breaking the rules, so you'd expect a lot of complaints about the police to be malicious and/or just trying it on because there's nothing to lose.

The big problem has been that genuine grievances just got lost in the noise of routine petty point scoring. The difference now is that when someone falls down the stairs we might get to see them being pushed or tripped, although there have been famous cases of such being caught on camera and nothing being done about it. However, those tended to be isolated incidents so easily passed off as just a bad apple thing, whereas currently we're seeing that there are far more of these apples than we imagined.

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