General > General Technical Chat
Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus
<< < (405/447) > >>
nctnico:

--- Quote from: VK3DRB on July 19, 2020, 05:50:28 am ---As for freedom, just ask the many (mostly black) exonerees who in many states are treated like lepers after exoneration. Blokes who have lost 20 or 30 years of their lives due to corrupt cops, mistaken identity, or prejudicial justice will tell you there is no freedom. The USA has the highest level of incarceration on the planet. And no, we don't have a perfect record here either. In fact, we do not have free speech here, but you do to a much greater extent.


The person who says it is dangerous to breath in your own carbon monoxide is going "up there"  :palm:...

--- End quote ---
You can't fix stupid. Unfortunately a mask only works for to catching outgoing particles. The stupid who are not wearing a mask when mandatory and not adhering to any precautions are more likely to catch Covid-19 and then spread it as well. A while ago someone posted numbers saying that a mask catches over 90% of the outgoing particles but only catches 50% of the incoming (and likely not taking into account you can get particles in your eyes and hands). Now that may sound nice until you start to figure out how to add to probabilities properly. You'd say a mask would catch half of the 10% that a mask is letting through. Wrong! You can't just add probabilities like this because they are related. You have subtract the probability that both probabilities occur at the same time. Now with a 90% probability that an outgoing particle is caught it is clear that using a mask for incoming particles adds very little protection. IOW: you are not wearing a mask to protect yourself but to protect others.
dietert1:
The effect of masks can be proven just by comparing numbers from China and USA. There must be a factor 100 more virus activity per capita in the US. I think that discussion is over. What Dr. Fauci said and what our German minister of health said in the beginning was the usual western arrogance (and they tried to hide being ill-prepared). I think people in China were much more aware of the risks due to the first SARS outbreak, especially the Chinese government.

Regards, Dieter
nctnico:

--- Quote from: dietert1 on July 19, 2020, 10:14:02 am ---The effect of masks can be proven just by comparing numbers from China and USA. There must be a factor 100 more virus activity per capita in the US. I think that discussion is over. What Dr. Fauci said and what our German minister of health said in the beginning was the usual western arrogance (and they tried to hide being ill-prepared). I think people in China were much more aware of the risks due to the first SARS outbreak, especially the Chinese government.

--- End quote ---
That is complete nonsense. You can't make a comparison like that.  For starters China enforced a much stricter lock-down and offered way better medical care. China nipped the Covid-19 outbreak in the butt where the US failed miserably. You can't put that all on wearing masks. The fact is that many western countries have managed to suppress the Covid-19 outbreak without using masks. There are several downsides of using masks too; the general public may become too relaxed about keeping distance and getting together. Usually you wear a mask to protect against incoming 'threats' but in this case it is the other way around. It is easy for people to get fooled into a false sense of security.
dietert1:
All these problems of wearing masks did not happen in China. Wearing masks inside closed rooms like shops, offices makes the differences. We did not know that in the beginning, but we know now. The keyword is "Aerosol". And like James_S explained above: A well made, reusable mask has two layers of cotton and it is like socks or trousers. You need like 10 or more to have a fresh one each day and you wash them with your clothes and pass them hot. That's about it.

Of course, if you prefer a complete lockdown over wearing masks, you can stay at home - as long as money lasts.

Regards, Dieter
Zero999:

--- Quote from: dietert1 on July 19, 2020, 10:55:12 am ---All these problems of wearing masks did not happen in China. Wearing masks inside closed rooms like shops, offices makes the differences. We did not know that in the beginning, but we know now. The keyword is "Aerosol". And like James_S explained above: A well made, reusable mask has two layers of cotton and it is like socks or trousers. You need like 10 or more to have a fresh one each day and you wash them with your clothes and pass them hot. That's about it.

Of course, if you prefer a complete lockdown over wearing masks, you can stay at home - as long as money lasts.

Regards, Dieter


--- End quote ---
Yes, that's true. I support a law enforcing masks in enclosed public spaces such as shops, but would disagree with one mandating them outside, unless it's in a crowd. I wouldn't want to have to wear a mask cycling to work, because there's no risk of me passing it on to anyone. I often see no pedestrians or other cyclists on my journey to work, so all a mask would do is make me more hot and sweaty and harder to breath, once it becomes damp.


--- Quote from: james_s on July 19, 2020, 12:33:24 am ---
--- Quote from: Nusa on July 18, 2020, 11:28:44 pm ---Even if you know for sure that you had it, acting as if you are immune is a dangerous assumption in the case of CV19. That's not yet understood or proven. There are some data points that suggest that either any immunity can be short-lived or that a prior infection can reactivate.

--- End quote ---

I'd still feel better knowing I'd already had it, that would suggest that it is not likely to be serious for me if it happens again. Of course nothing is guaranteed. Apparently the tests are not super accurate though, a false positive in the antibody test would be worse than not knowing.

--- End quote ---
Unfortunately I didn't get tested and it's too long ago for an antibody test, so I'll never know, unless a quick memory T cell test becomes available. It's possible the cough was the common cold and my chilblains were the result of cycling in cold, wet weather and sitting still in a cool room, for hours on end. Lastly, even if I had it, it's not 100% proven I won't get it again, although it'd would be highly unlikely. Given this level of uncertainty, it would be foolish for me to presume I'm immune and ignore social distancing regulations.

At the moment, the majority of evidence seems to suggest that if someone has had it, they will have some level of immunity so are unlikely to get it again and if they do, the chances are it won't be as bad the next time, as is the case for most viral infections. Now that might not be true. It could be like polio which can come back later, but no other coronaviruses do that, so it seems unlikely. Either way, we need to err on the side of caution.

It's interesting there's less interest in the idea of immunity certificates, than there was a few weeks ago. I believe this is more to do with the fact they would encourage people in low risk groups to deliberately get infected and declared immune, so they'll have greater employment opportunities, than those who haven't had it. Unfortunately there's evidence to suggest the level of exposure also determines the severity of illness, so people who deliberately infect themselves by engaging in highly risky behaviours such as deliberately coughing on one another, kissing and other sexual activity, will become more ill, than those who catch it by picking it up off a supermarket trolley.
Navigation
Message Index
Next page
Previous page
There was an error while thanking
Thanking...

Go to full version
Powered by SMFPacks Advanced Attachments Uploader Mod