General > General Technical Chat
Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus
mrflibble:
Oh, if only some sort of technology existed that would allow us to copy entire pieces of an article and paste it. This would assuredly be a huge boon to communication!
From the linked article in question:
https://www.wakingtimes.com/2020/05/15/bill-gates-explains-that-the-covid-vaccine-will-use-experimental-technology-and-permanently-alter-your-dna/
...
Alex Pietrowski, Staff Writer
Waking Times
CORRECTION: This article was recently reviewed by Politifact, and out of respect for their efforts to stop the spread of misinformation on Facebook, we have decided to issue this correction. Their comments can be read, here. At issue specifically were two claims that we made.
Firstly, that Gates said for certain the new vaccine will use RNA or DNA technology. We should have stated that Gates implied that there is a very good chance that this technology will be used, but that they don’t yet know for certain.
Secondly, our claim that an RNA or DNA vaccine will permanently alter your DNA is disputed on the grounds that some research into these vaccines shows that vaccines degrade naturally and do not alter DNA.
A quote from Politifact:
Gates never said that the first licensed COVID-19 vaccine would use experimental technology or permanently alter DNA; he said specifically that “we don’t know yet what the COVID-19 vaccine will look like.” The most recent research also shows that RNA vaccines, which are being tested for COVID-19 right now, do degrade naturally and don’t alter DNA permanently.
It does appear that there is some contention over the potential that DNA vaccines may permanently change a person’s DNA, as highlighted in this white paper from biotech company Moderna, a leading developer of RNA vaccine technology:
“DNA vaccine work began thirty years ago, but as yet there are no licensed DNA vaccines and most remain in Phase 1 testing.
(Figure 5) The key challenge associated with DNA vaccines is that they must penetrate the cell nucleus (crossing two membranes; the cytoplasm and the nucleus). The DNA must then be transcribed in the nucleus into mRNA before moving to the cytoplasm to stimulate antigen production. This core complex pathway often requires both larger doses and special, often painful delivery devices using electric shocks or gold microspheres into person’s skin to deliver the DNA vaccine. Once inside the nucleus, DNA vaccines have a risk of permanently changing a person’s DNA. ” [Source]
...
etc.
It does help if you actually include the "CORRECTION:" bit right at the top of the article.
So yeah, I concur with paulca's "full of shit" label for this quality piece of information.
And on the topic of quality information, I took a semi-random sample from their "Trending now" articles:
https://www.wakingtimes.com/2020/07/08/the-mask-is-the-mark-of-the-beast-in-larval-form/
The article gets introduced with this header:
--- Quote ---NOTE TO FACT CHECKERS: This is an editorial piece. It is my personal opinion. Nothing in the following collection of words can cause physical harm to anyone, nor can any of it be taken as offensive or be considered hate speech by any rational person. As a sovereign being I am entitled to express the thoughts in my head without censorship, punishment, reprisal, or threats against my livelihood. Please respect my right to free speech and self-expression, and respect the rights of those who wish to read this. This is not fake news. It is not misinformation. It is not dangerous, and it certainly is not racist. It is merely one man’s opinion expressed in editorial form. So please, whoever has ears, let them hear.
Dylan Charles, Editor
Waking Times
--- End quote ---
Translation: Leave me alone, all I am doing is writing some mythical Santa Claus fanfiction! Don't bother me with your pesky attempts at rationality. Bah, humbug!
And besides, RNA/DNA vaccination is sooooo simple and boring. Lets go full honey bee and use horizontal gene transfer. Way cooler!
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3534371/
PS: RNA medication has huge potential, so personally I am all for more research in that area. Now if Homo sapiens could get a fucking grip on its fear of the unknown we could actually be getting somewhere. We've got the Homo part sorted by very definition, but the sapiens part still needs some work.
--- Quote from: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 28, 2020, 12:45:22 pm ---
--- Quote from: paulca on July 28, 2020, 12:30:25 pm ---Yes and when you follow the link in that article to the FULL article you find an apology because they were full of shit and got called out.
--- End quote ---
Why do you lie? That's not what it says when you follow the link! Look:
"It does appear that there is some contention over the potential that DNA vaccines may permanently change a person’s DNA, as highlighted in this white paper from biotech company Moderna, a leading developer of RNA vaccine technology:
(Figure 5) The key challenge associated with DNA vaccines is that they must penetrate the cell nucleus (crossing two membranes; the cytoplasm and the nucleus). The DNA must then be transcribed in the nucleus into mRNA before moving to the cytoplasm to stimulate antigen production. This core complex pathway often requires both larger doses and special, often painful delivery devices using electric shocks or gold microspheres into person’s skin to deliver the DNA vaccine. Once inside the nucleus, DNA vaccines have a risk of permanently changing a person’s DNA. "
Moderna is the company that's developing Gates' vaccine.
Also:
"Two new technologies are in the COVID testing pipeline as we speak: DNA and RNA vaccines. They have never been released for public use. DNA technology is actually gene therapy. Genes are injected into the body, and they permanently alter the genetic makeup of the recipient in unknown ways. RNA vaccines would carry the danger of triggering autoimmune reactions, meaning the body basically goes to war against itself.
The vaccine that is being tapped by the US government… under its National Institutes of Health…through drug company Moderna…HAS NEVER BEEN USED ON THE PUBLIC BEFORE. IT IS NOT LICENSED FOR PUBLIC USE.
RNA VACCINES AND THE TECHNOLOGY THEY USE ARE ENTIRELY EXPERIMENTAL.
AND THIS IS THE TYPE OF VACCINE BEING RUSHED INTO EXISTENCE IN 90 DAYS.
What in the world could possibly go wrong?
One way to find out is to unleash it on millions of people, stand back, and see.” ~Jon Rappoport
Are you ready for your family and your children to be used as guinea pigs in the largest global health experiment ever conducted?"
--- End quote ---
PlainName:
--- Quote --- DNA vaccines have a risk of permanently changing a person’s DNA.
--- End quote ---
Probably worth pointing out, though it shouldn't be necessary, that 'have a risk' is not the same as 'will' or 'intended to'. Indeed, the article starts with "The key challenge associated with DNA vaccines..." which says to me that changing DNA is one of the issue they are working to prevent.
Reading that in the way george has is the same as thinking electricity can fry your brains, therefore anyone promoting electronics kit must be intending to execute you. It's more likely they're working on the reverse.
DrG:
I hope that I am not reading kindling for an antivax thread derailment.
A safe and effective vaccine would certainly mitigate the impact of Covid on working from home and in virtually all areas of work, and there are currently some 199 vaccines in development. https://covid-19tracker.milkeninstitute.org/#vaccines_intro
There are representatives from the following vaccine approaches: DNA-Based, Inactivated Virus, Live Attenuated Virus, Non-Replicating Viral Vector, Protein Subunit, Replicating Viral Vector, RNA-Based, Virus-Like Particle, and a few others which are only in preclinical development.
The Moderna RNA vaccine has entered Phase III, although Phase II and III are being conducted concurrently.
My understanding of an RNA vaccine is that it is really quite similar to a virus EXCEPT that there is no self-replication. The idea is that the vaccine will function to have a cell produce a protein that is recognized as an antigen, thus stimulating immune activity. By selecting production of the “right” protein creation, the stimulated immune activity will be effective against the targeted virus (CoVid19).
While there has never been a licensed RNA vaccine, a good deal of preclinical and clinical research has taken place in the Cancer area. What I gather is that in that research, the aim is for a customized tumor-specific “vaccine” of sorts.
Here is a nice, easy to understand, article explaining RNA vaccines. https://horizon-magazine.eu/article/five-things-you-need-know-about-mrna-vaccines.html
Vaccine safety starts at the preclinical phase and continues in ALL clinical phases. Phase 1 clinical research is specifically for safety (healthy normal volunteers), but II, III, IV and V all target safety.
Phase II is the first clinical trial for efficacy. Phase III being a larger efficacy trial. Again, my understanding is that licensing can be applied for after completion of a successful Phase III trial, but it is not a done deal at that point. For example, there may be limited or no testing of sub-populations like the elderly or very young. Approval could be restricted. Phases IV and V continue regardless of whether it is under the branding of pharmacovigilance, i.e., post release evaluation. Of course, the extent of efficacy is also a factor.
A couple of vaccines are listed as being in Phase III, including Moderna’s.
With nearly 200 vaccines in development, there is a lot of very exciting research going on and the best mitigation against a culture of grievance and ignorance is one of evidence and education.
GeorgeOfTheJungle:
--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on July 28, 2020, 04:58:16 pm ---
--- Quote --- DNA vaccines have a risk of permanently changing a person’s DNA.
--- End quote ---
Probably worth pointing out, though it shouldn't be necessary, that 'have a risk' is not the same as 'will' or 'intended to'. Indeed, the article starts with "The key challenge associated with DNA vaccines..." which says to me that changing DNA is one of the issue they are working to prevent.
--- End quote ---
It seems that there's a risk that the vaccine's RNA that's programmed to attach to a sequence (of the virus?), mistakenly attaches instead to a similar sequence somewhere else in your DNA => blue screen of death. Or something like that :o
bd139:
That's also one of those things, much like data corruption, that won't be noticed until it is far far far too late to do anything about it. Maybe years down the line.
I'm very worried that the social pressure that Covid has placed on the science community, plus the general shit show that academia and research is at the moment, that an important corner is going to be cut somewhere. Add to that the current political optics and objectivity and safety go out of the window. And that may have an excessively large impact on the population.
We've done it before with thalidomide and that was a fairly narrow portion of the population (pregnant women) and caused 80,000 deaths and 20,000 life changing outcomes.
To point out I'm no anti-vaxxer but I distrust the human race to do things properly when given a short time to do it in.
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