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Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus

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Buriedcode:

--- Quote from: SilverSolder on July 28, 2020, 10:22:33 pm ---...
The latest research says that placebos work - even if you know it's a placebo!  :D

--- End quote ---

Depends on how you define "work".  They don't have any biological impact/effect, it's purely psychological.  That's why the effect (well, "effects" because there isn't just one) is most pronounced on ailments that have only subjective measures: pain, discomfort, "mood".  It's why the effects have been recruited by those selling snake oil - "well, even if it only works as a placebo, it still WORKS right?", which for something like, heart disease or cancer, the answer is "no".

james_s:
A placebo might help stop your headache, but it's not going to prevent you from contracting a virus.

Zero999:

--- Quote from: james_s on July 28, 2020, 10:37:57 pm ---A placebo might help stop your headache, but it's not going to prevent you from contracting a virus.

--- End quote ---
Yes, the idea a placebo will stop you catching a virus is bollocks. SilverSolder was joking. He's clearly not retarded enough to believe that. It's obvious someone who believes there immune, when there's not, is more likely to catch the virus, than someone who knows they're susceptible, because they'll not bother with social distancing or mask wearing. :palm:

DrG:

--- Quote from: SilverSolder on July 28, 2020, 10:22:33 pm ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on July 28, 2020, 10:14:41 pm ---
--- Quote from: DrG on July 28, 2020, 08:59:53 pm ---
--- Quote from: SilverSolder on July 28, 2020, 08:50:59 pm ---
I guess the safest type of vaccine would be one that we understand well, and already use versions of elsewhere...   meaning, quantum computer powered vaccines are probably not the first thing we should be reaching out for! :D

--- End quote ---

No, the safest vaccine is one that does nothing at all.

--- End quote ---
Not if people think it works. :palm:

--- End quote ---

The latest research says that placebos work - even if you know it's a placebo!  :D

--- End quote ---

A placebo vaccine could, conceivably, lead to an increased likelihood of infection. If the individual became confident of their perceived immunity, they might engage in high risk behavior that would increase the likelihood of contact with the pathogen and, therefore, increase the likelihood of infection.

It is more of a stretch to conceive of how a placebo vaccine could actually protect against infection. The rationale would likely be some idea that the placebo effect increased the individual’s affect, resulting in an increased resilience. A variation on the “happy people have better immune system functioning than miserable people”.

In either case, you would be very hard-pressed to ever find any legitimate research suggesting either.

The point that I was trying to raise was that all vaccines have risks associated with them. In my view, our job (be us virologists, drug companies or consumers) is to understand the risks to enable us to make evidenced-based decisions.

DrG:

--- Quote from: Buriedcode on July 28, 2020, 10:34:39 pm ---
--- Quote from: SilverSolder on July 28, 2020, 10:22:33 pm ---...
The latest research says that placebos work - even if you know it's a placebo!  :D

--- End quote ---

Depends on how you define "work".  They don't have any biological impact/effect, it's purely psychological.  That's why the effect (well, "effects" because there isn't just one) is most pronounced on ailments that have only subjective measures: pain, discomfort, "mood".  It's why the effects have been recruited by those selling snake oil - "well, even if it only works as a placebo, it still WORKS right?", which for something like, heart disease or cancer, the answer is "no".

--- End quote ---

“They don't have any biological impact/effect, it's purely psychological” I hear and read this sentiment a lot. I contend that it simply makes no sense. Psychological effects, be they pure or otherwise, are physical events; biological, neurological, chemical and so on.

In modern science, there is no logical reason to differentiate a psychological event from a biological event in that manner.

You basically have two choices; psychological effects exist in the physical world or they don’t, that is, they are unreal or perhaps ethereal. The latter is faith-based and with that exception (which could apply to any/all events), I would defy anyone to explain an event that is psychological but not physical (biological, neurological, chemical and so on – the point being that the event resides in the physical world).

You might think that I am being picky, but if you made that statement to a group of neuroscientists, I think you would hear some objections. I hope that many EEs would also see the problem. Yes, sure, this is casual conversation, but even in casual conversation, I don't think that you could stand on a "you know what I mean" defense, because I really don't.

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