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Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus

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PlainName:

--- Quote ---Psychological effects, be they pure or otherwise, are physical events; biological, neurological, chemical and so on.

In modern science, there is no logical reason to differentiate a psychological event from a biological event in that manner.
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I think you are conflating cause and effect. A psychological issue might be the effect of a physical cause, but can't itself be a physical event. A physical effect can be the result of physical event and itself be a physical event.

Nusa:
I think working from home increases trolling. Some of you are actively trolling, while others are placebos.

DrG:

--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on July 29, 2020, 06:10:00 pm ---
--- Quote ---Psychological effects, be they pure or otherwise, are physical events; biological, neurological, chemical and so on.

In modern science, there is no logical reason to differentiate a psychological event from a biological event in that manner.
--- End quote ---

I think you are conflating cause and effect. A psychological issue might be the effect of a physical cause, but can't itself be a physical event. A physical effect can be the result of physical event and itself be a physical event.

--- End quote ---

No, I am not conflating cause and effect or anything else. There is no reason to play with words here either. Psychological events are real events in the physical world and there is absolutely no reason to separate them from real events in the physical world. Whether they are patterns of firing neurons in particular pathways or a particular configuration of proteins on the surface of a single neuron or patterns of increases and decreases in the biochemistry of the CNS or many other physical events - most of which is poorly understood but many advancements have been made. Regardless, they are real events in the physical world, whether they are understood well or not at all.

When you remember something that happened to you in your childhood, that memory is a physical entity. It resides in your brain as a physical entity that can be studied and understood. The same goes for what you might call emotions, rainbows, music, art, beauty, and so on.

When you hear a bell, it is not a psychological event (whether you salivate or not) that is somehow outside the realm of the physical world. The sound pressure waves falling on your sensors is the simplest part of hearing that bell - in fact, I can stimulate parts of your brain and you will see and hear things in the absence of any sound and light.

Again, if "psychological" events are not real events in the physical world, then it is incumbent on you to explain to me where/how psychological events exist. Without the exception previously noted, you can't do that, so why try to separate the psychological world from the physical world. It makes no sense because they are not separate worlds.

PlainName:

--- Quote ---When you remember something that happened to you in your childhood, that memory is a physical entity.
--- End quote ---

It is physical in the sense that some physical event caused it. It is not physical in the sense that it can affect anything (except another psychological state).

What we are talking about here is not what something is made of (i.e. psychological events are made of chemicals, etc) but what something affects downstream (i.e. what taking a poison would do to your body).

That's why I said I think you are conflating things - what something is made of vs what something can do.


--- Quote ---When you hear a bell, it is not a psychological event
--- End quote ---

Actually, it can be.I am profoundly deaf but I hear things all the time. Show me a switch and I'll hear it click, despite being physically incapable of doing so. That's what we understand as a psychological effect, despite some physical chemical event that produces the illusion of hearing.

DrG:

--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on July 29, 2020, 07:15:54 pm ---
--- Quote ---When you remember something that happened to you in your childhood, that memory is a physical entity.
--- End quote ---

It is physical in the sense that some physical event caused it. It is not physical in the sense that it can affect anything (except another psychological state).

What we are talking about here is not what something is made of (i.e. psychological events are made of chemicals, etc) but what something affects downstream (i.e. what taking a poison would do to your body).

That's why I said I think you are conflating things - what something is made of vs what something can do.


--- Quote ---
--- End quote ---

--- End quote ---

I am sorry, but you simply do not make sense to me at all and I mean that sincerely and without hostility. I will repeat, "Again, if "psychological" events are not real events in the physical world, then it is incumbent on you to explain to me where/how psychological events exist". If you want to coin a term "psychological state" and claim that it is not something that exists in the physical world that can be studied and can be understood, I can't relate to you. If you want to disregard the initial statement that I responded to [“They don't have any biological impact/effect, it's purely psychological” ], I can't relate to you.

In short, I am probably done with this part of the discussion because I just don't think it would be productive. I stand by what I said. I received my PhD many years ago and worked successfully for decades as, what you would likely call, a neuroscientist. This is not a new area for me. None of that, by itself, makes me right, but it means that I have been through this discussion with about 50 or so EEs and some of them simply do not want to open their minds to this concept and they will actively fight against understanding the concept. I am ok with that, but I still try, just not as hard as I used to try.

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