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Working From Home - Impacts of Coronavirus

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PlainName:

--- Quote ---So why wouldn't other businesses that currently have zero or lesser current tracing ability also reject people?
--- End quote ---

Strange how we see things differently. I took his airlines thing to be a single example - other examples would apply, but the forum page isn't long enough to list them all explicitly, and if a single one were missed it would no doubt be flagged and argued over. His 'say' would be my 'for example'.

And, actually, this kind of thing is already done. Some insurance companies stiff young drivers unless they have in-car trackers fitted (sure,  they say it's a discount, but that's like the 'discount' you get for paying a fine early). Some companies charge you what they think you can afford to pay, so they are keen to know what social class you are in before quoting a price.

SiliconWizard:

--- Quote from: EEVblog on April 27, 2020, 02:25:21 am ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on April 27, 2020, 01:31:17 am ---
--- Quote from: EEVblog on April 27, 2020, 12:28:28 am ---
--- Quote from: Bud on April 26, 2020, 10:22:31 pm ---This shit may quickly become weaponized... Say, airlines may deny you boarding the flight if you do not have the app installed.
--- End quote ---
The free market will ultimately take care of that. But they already know who sat next to who, so no need for that.

--- End quote ---
At that point it is too late. There is a delay between getting infected and becoming contagious. One of the points of using an app is to get an announcement you have been in touch with an infected person a couple of days ago.
--- End quote ---

It's called tracing app for a reason. It traces who you have been intact with. In the plane example, they already have mandatory contact tracing, in fact it's already one of the best forms of contact tracing currently available. Adding a tracing app adds little value when it comes to airline travel.

--- End quote ---

That's true, although the app could still help, not for tracing per se, but for detecting infected passengers. Of course airlines have names and seats of all passengers, so everything to trace them, but they won't necessarily know who is or isn't infected...

And then, there are other settings in which it could be that some private services require that too, although it seems a bit unpractical.

SiliconWizard:

--- Quote from: EEVblog on April 27, 2020, 06:11:33 am ---The last thing they are going to do is independently decide to turn away passengers that don't have a tracing app installed, that's madness.

--- End quote ---

You may be right, we'll see. At this point I'm not completely sure.
As I said earlier, I'm looking at what happened for fighting terrorism. There were a number of things that changed regarding boarding planes after that, and that are here to stay. Granted that those measures are only mildly annoying for the passengers, so if something like that was decided for fighting virus spreading, that would have to be relatively light as well. But at this point, I'm not completely rejecting the idea that at least something is going to change for traveling, especially in planes. Just don't know what.

Maybe nothing will change in the end, and maybe this parallel with anti-terrorism is not quite relevant, but I'm really still wondering.

SiliconWizard:

--- Quote from: floobydust on April 27, 2020, 03:01:15 am ---The signal/noise ratio will not be enough to make it helpful. Logistics on undoing a false positive test result, after notifications have been sent out, well- people are screwed because a false +ve can propagate far unless you are known hikikomori.

--- End quote ---

I agree with this, and as said earlier, had already concerns about how/why infected people would declare it through the app to begin with. We still have no idea. It sounds like something responsible to do? But there could be also myriads of reasons for not doing so.

And then, even if enough people do this, there's the false detection ratio as you said.

Another related thought - if someone is tested infected, IMO they should NOT get out. As I remember, I think in South Korea, people tested infected would be quarantined - either at home if this is possible (and a quarantine is not just confinement, you don't get out at all), or in hotel rooms if you can't stay at home. I admit I haven't really completely understood how the tracing app worked in SK, but I know they had this quarantine thing.

If we just allow infected people to move around freely - even if there is a high enough probabilty of tracing whoever gets in contact with them (obviously not 100%), this may be questionable.

Yet another point - by the time someone would be tested infected, they may already have been for a little while, without anyone being able to know.

Many dark spots in this thing IMO.

Again it seems to be inspired by some asian initiatives such as in SK, but, while I admit I don't completely know what exactly what the system in SK, I'm sure it was a lot more effective (but a lot more problematic for privacy too), and just one thing among a lot of measures. For instance, I've seen over there, they would disinfect public transports several times a day, something that's probably not possible in many other countries. As to the app itself, it did report everything to central servers so that people could actually look at maps in advance, seeing which spots could be more or less risky to go to. That's prevention, and more effective than just getting out anywhere waiting to be close enough to someone. But yeah it poses major privacy issues.

All in all, the benefit/drawback ratio of this app thing is largely questionable IMO, especially in the way we are thinking of implementing it in the West.
And deeply embedding contact tracing in OSs for future use is a privacy concern, nothing tells us it will be only temporary (it likely won't be).

paulca:
I still think you miss understand what the proposed apps do.

Having the app installed would not help airlines or anyone else for that matter.  It's not an immunity nor "clean" passport.  It will tell you nothing.

The best you could do as an airline is ask to the see the notifications the contact tracer warned you about.  To which the response would be, fuck off.

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