Author Topic: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?  (Read 22577 times)

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Offline German_EE

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Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« on: November 30, 2014, 08:37:02 pm »
I have spent the weekend installing LED lighting, individual modules rather than strips. As an experiment I purchased a 50/50 mix of warm white and pure white units to see which I liked the best (current consumption is the same) but which do you prefer, warm white or the full on pure white units?

Note, this is for general lighting, for close up work I still plan to rely on a desk light with an adjustable stand.
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n45048

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2014, 08:48:18 pm »
I mentioned in a previous topic somewhere that I'm a fan of warmer light (around the 2700-3200K mark). I find fluro and pure white LEDs distracting and sterile.

If you're planning on taking photos or video, you can (and should) white balance anyway, so the colour of your lighting isn't going to matter too much.

Another forum member posted some details about his set up at: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/cree-led-lighting-in-the-lab/
« Last Edit: November 30, 2014, 08:51:02 pm by Halon »
 

Offline 8086

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2014, 08:49:56 pm »
I prefer to be able to adjust the temperature manually, between say 3000 and 5000K.

But then, I do work for a lighting controls company.

Failing that, I prefer to be towards the cool end of the spectrum normally, for a workspace environment.
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2014, 08:52:52 pm »
This is a personal preference thing.

I find the higher the colour temperature, the brighter the light needs to be. A high colour temperature but low intensity results in a horrible greyish coloured light.

In the lounge I like warm lighting, 2700K or less. For soldering I light slightly warmish 3000K to 3500K.

I dislike the really high colour temperatures such as 4500K or 5000K.
 

Offline Leiothrix

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2014, 09:21:14 pm »
5000K-ish.

I think people only like warm lights because they grew up with incandescents.

The colour is horrible, and makes everything else look horrible too.

During the day, go into a hallway and have a look at the light spilling out from a room.  If it's lit by a warm source you can see the orange glow, if it's ~5000K it looks like brighter daylight.

 

Offline rdl

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2014, 09:46:59 pm »
I like LED bulbs with the warmer incandescent type color for around the house. It probably does have something to do with growing up with that type of light.

If the light is too blue it becomes somewhat garish looking at night. It's not a bad choice for the workshop though, because it blends well with daylight fluorescents.

I think there were studies done for LED street lighting that recommended around 4300K, but no one seems to make that color. The Cree "daylight" bulbs I've bought are 5000K. They're not terribly blue, but I wouldn't want one in my bedside lamp.
 

Offline dannyf

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2014, 09:54:41 pm »
Quote
warm white or the full on pure white units?

1) incandescent;
2) incandescent;
3 more incandescent, :)
4) warm white if I have to use led lighting.

Pure white feels cold and reminds me of public bathrooms in India.
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Offline marshallh

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2014, 10:18:04 pm »
Warm temps for me only. During the day cool light isn't bad, but at night it screws with your sleeping. There's been research done on lighting and its effects on circadian rhythms, which I have to agree with from experience.

5000K works for me. Cree is finally making decent LED replacements which are warm enough.

Ever since getting a program on my PC that tints the screen oranger at later hours to prevent eyestrain I'm a believer.
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Offline RobertoLG

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2014, 10:19:02 pm »
for my tastes pure white is better
 

Offline IanB

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2014, 10:24:54 pm »
Most of this thread seems to be missing the most important thing. It's not about colour temperature, it is about colour rendition. In a workshop or any living space, it is best to have lighting that renders colours accurately across the spectrum so that things look natural and their details are clear. So look for lighting with a good CRI.

Colour temperature matters a lot less since the human brain will readily compensate for any general shift towards the blue or red end of the spectrum.
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n45048

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2014, 10:26:51 pm »
Warm temps for me only. During the day cool light isn't bad, but at night it screws with your sleeping. There's been research done on lighting and its effects on circadian rhythms, which I have to agree with from experience.

5000K works for me. Cree is finally making decent LED replacements which are warm enough.

Ever since getting a program on my PC that tints the screen oranger at later hours to prevent eyestrain I'm a believer.
I agree. There are plenty of studies which go towards proving that light around the blue bit of the spectrum is the worst offender at suppressing melatonin (although any light disrupts this). More recently, white LED's have been blamed for similar disturbances in sleep.
 

Offline GreyWoolfe

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2014, 10:47:20 pm »
Marshallh, are you using f-lux?  I use it on my laptop.  As far as lighting over my workbench/office desk/ham radio desk, I use Daylight Deluxe (6500K).  I tried warm white bulbs but didn't care for them at all.  I have a 4 bulb, 4 ft fixture over the center of the workbench and am very happy with the light I get.  The desks have 2 bulb 4 ft fixtures which is plenty.  All the fixtures are suspended from the ceiling at just enough height that I won't hit my head on them when standing or leaning over the desks.  We do use cooler CFL bulbs in the lights in the rest of the house and I am fine with it.  I just like the 'brighter' or harsher (which ever term you prefer) white of the daylight deluxe bulbs while working.
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Offline gxti

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2014, 10:49:35 pm »
No idea on shop lighting. I was using a "daylight" CFL for a while in my work area and was happy with that. I tried out some 2700K LEDs I bought for other areas and found it was harder to resolve details even with more watts but it could have been incidental.

Someone beat me to it on the sleep disruption, but here's a source:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2831986/

Quote
In one experiment, Kunz showed that exposing healthy subjects to 30 minutes of 500 lux polychromatic blue light an hour before bedtime, in their natural home environment, delayed the onset of rapid eye movement sleep by 30 minutes. The implications of that finding have yet to be determined, says Kunz. But the melanopsin receptors are particularly sensitive during the evening and nighttime hours, so ā€œIā€™m pretty sure that at least many of the sleep disorders we are facing epidemically are related to evening or nighttime light,ā€ he says. According to the National Center on Sleep Disorders Research, sleep-related problems affect 50ā€“70 million U.S. men and women of all ages.

Which isn't to say you shouldn't use it in a shop, but definitely not in your living room.
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2014, 11:43:20 pm »
FWIW, I've found I prefer mine in the 5000K range (daylight, ~ noon IIRC). The unfortunate side, is this seems to be more difficult to find, and tends to be more expensive when you do.

Warmer, say 3000 - 3200K is fine for normal household lighting is fine (i.e. concerned about tripping over the cat, finding my way to the kitchen, ...). No pain at any rate, but not wonderful for fine detail IME. For detailed work such as soldering, probing and such on an electronics bench, warm doesn't cut it for me. And the bluish shade of 6000 - 6500K I don't care for at all (actually causes me some eye strain/pain, and will develop into headaches if I don't get away from it). Discovered by accident per se, that 5000K works best for me (literally grabbed the wrong bulb once, and been hooked ever since).

YMMV though, and as mentioned is subjective.  :P
 

Offline rdl

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2014, 02:48:59 am »
FWIW, I've found I prefer mine in the 5000K range (daylight, ~ noon IIRC). The unfortunate side, is this seems to be more difficult to find, and tends to be more expensive when you do.

If you live near a Home Depot go get some of the Cree "Daylight" LED bulbs. They're 5000K, well made, and relatively cheap. I have several of the 1100 lumen ones over my bench and I really like them. I think they were around $15 and they've been in use for many months now.

I have 5 or 6 of the Cree bulbs in my small apartment now, and I've been very happy with them, though most are the warmer 2700K version. Only above my bench do I use the 5000K, because I also have a daylight fluorescent lamp in there and the colors blend together well.
 

Offline nanofrog

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2014, 08:51:08 am »
If you live near a Home Depot go get some of the Cree "Daylight" LED bulbs. They're 5000K, well made, and relatively cheap. I have several of the 1100 lumen ones over my bench and I really like them. I think they were around $15 and they've been in use for many months now.
Thanks.  :)

I've actually seen them not too long ago, and the price was definitely attractive (saw 40W & 60W incandescent bulb equivalents were $10 per).  :-+

Definitely down from what I paid about 1 - 1.5yrs earlier for ~500 lumen Utilitech spot lights at Lowes ($30 per).

Got some 5000K LED light strip for under shelving lighting, and that particular color temp was still more expensive than the warm or other cool color strips at the time (few months ago). Same for other bulb formats (hadn't yet decided on LED strip, MR16, ...). Definitely consistency regarding 5000K daylight (lot less of it available vs. 6000 - 6500K).

Standard CCFL overheads for the room round it out (warm).
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2014, 01:51:36 pm »
Most of this thread seems to be missing the most important thing. It's not about colour temperature, it is about colour rendition. In a workshop or any living space, it is best to have lighting that renders colours accurately across the spectrum so that things look natural and their details are clear. So look for lighting with a good CRI.

Colour temperature matters a lot less since the human brain will readily compensate for any general shift towards the blue or red end of the spectrum.
I agree with you about CRI but in my experience, colour temperature does make a difference to that too.  Assuming an ideal black body emitter, low colour temperature light suppresses the blue end of the spectrum and high colour temperature suppresses the red.
 

Offline G7PSK

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2014, 02:14:34 pm »
Day light. Nothing beats it.
 

Offline cimmo

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2014, 02:26:55 pm »
In working areas I prefer a mixture of warm white and cool white LED lamps.
About 50% to 75% warm.
You get the best of both worlds, and the resultant CRI from the mix subjectively appears smoother. (One of my hobbies involves mixing paint and some nasty LEDs have big holes in the emitted spectrum. You find this out when you view the mixed paint in the sun/daylight.)
For close up work a "pure" (4000-5000K) spot lamp is preferred.
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Offline Dave Turner

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2014, 08:09:01 pm »
It also depends on whether your lab has natural daylight available and if so how much.

In a naturally lit lab supplementary lighting should match daylight as closely as possible otherwise the contrasting colour temperatures can be off-putting. Given that daylight varies throughout the day and due to weather conditions the daylight "bulbs" have to be a compromise, but are in my opinion, the best option.

In an enclosed environment I would also choose daylight bulbs for a lab, round the workspace at the very least.

Warm white is restricted to my bedroom and living room.

But, hey, that's my opinion based on research done for a number of labs I designed in the 80's.
 

Offline SteveyG

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2014, 08:48:49 pm »
Daylight LED is best for the lab. Best colour rendering and less heat than incandescent, plus more reliable. Strips are good for reducing shadows and directionality.

Not true at all. CRI and Colour Temperature are not directly linked and incandescent lamps actually have a CRI of 100.

Offline owiecc

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2014, 10:10:31 pm »
[...] incandescent lamps actually have a CRI of 100.
They have CRI = 100 because of the way CRI is calculated. However, CRI is a very bar color quality index. There have been many other proposals,but not one is a standard yet. There can be different types of spectra that are more pleasing to the eye than the blackbody type.

It all depends on culture and what you are surrounded with. If you live in the far north/south, you will most likely prefer lower CT. In hot countries, like Brazil, you will prefer higher CT. If you are surrounded with a lot of saturated colors  and organic materials you may need more continuous lights spectrum. Scandinavians may not need that.
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2014, 11:03:40 pm »
[...] incandescent lamps actually have a CRI of 100.
They have CRI = 100 because of the way CRI is calculated. However, CRI is a very bar color quality index. There have been many other proposals,but not one is a standard yet. There can be different types of spectra that are more pleasing to the eye than the blackbody type.

It all depends on culture and what you are surrounded with. If you live in the far north/south, you will most likely prefer lower CT. In hot countries, like Brazil, you will prefer higher CT. If you are surrounded with a lot of saturated colors  and organic materials you may need more continuous lights spectrum. Scandinavians may not need that.
Exactly, as I said in my previous post, a CRI of 100 doesn't mean it gives the best colour rendition. It's just a calculation.
 

Offline denelec

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2014, 12:14:00 am »
Cool white for work.
Warm white for leisure.

And candlelight for quality time with your significant other... ;)
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Workshop Lighting - Warm White or Pure White?
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2014, 09:35:38 am »
This is a personal preference thing.

It's more than that, it's a lifetime of indoctrination from lower temperature lights.
 


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