Author Topic: World's first professional Youtuber quits Youtube  (Read 4105 times)

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Online KL27x

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Re: World's first professional Youtuber quits Youtube
« Reply #75 on: August 20, 2019, 02:31:25 am »
FWIW, I just searched YT for "funny cat video."
The search gives me pages of videos, no "MeanKitty" to be seen, yet.

So far, though? All these channels have way more subscribers than 1 million. One has 193 million! ???
 

Online KL27x

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Re: World's first professional Youtuber quits Youtube
« Reply #76 on: August 20, 2019, 02:54:31 am »
SparkyFX:
Yeah, I dunno why I added that. In the first part of that post, I mentioned being unaware of any reason he would be targeted. I was just making a general point.

For example, there's Luis CK. Dude was huge. Not everyone's cup of tea. I'm not personally invested in Luis CK, but check it.

LCK is taken down by the media. For things that he did... in like 2005-2012. Things, which according to all known facts weren't even... that bad? And exactly days before his new movie was ready to be released. (Movie that seems like it was a bit embarrassing to one Woody Allen, no less?). He had a contract with Netflix. He had some other show, apparently, on HBO?

But.... get this. He spurned a cable deal for his latest comedy video. He noped out of DRMA. He said F it. I'll just make my video, email a bunch of people about it, and let them download it for 5 bucks. He was also starting to promote and sell videos of other comedians on his own website.

So bottom line. CK grossed a million dollars in 2 weeks when he released his latest video. He probably spent $400,000 creating it and promoting it. Filming, editing, website, support, etc. Netted probably around half a million, at least. So?

If he did a cable deal, his video would have sold for $30 bucks a pop. CK would have made a bit less, for himself... But "other people in the industry" would have made tens of millions in the process.

Kaboom. Bye bye Luis CK. Destroyed by the media with curious timing. For borderline things he did while "protected" by the industry, years ago. Even his "victims" don't portray themselves like victims... and are probably still employed or seeking advancement in the industry that organized the takedown.

MeanKitty, if he was really talking about "making his own platform," well, there might be a reason for a sudden decline. Not posting a video for 3 months, as Dave has found, might be another reason.

« Last Edit: August 20, 2019, 03:28:46 am by KL27x »
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: World's first professional Youtuber quits Youtube
« Reply #77 on: August 20, 2019, 03:37:14 am »
So far, though? All these channels have way more subscribers than 1 million. One has 193 million! ???

Err, not even PewDiePie has 100M, link?
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: World's first professional Youtuber quits Youtube
« Reply #78 on: August 20, 2019, 03:42:35 am »
MeanKitty, if he was really talking about "making his own platform," well, there might be a reason for a sudden decline. Not posting a video for 3 months, as Dave has found, might be another reason.

Even if he talked about creating his own platform before this video, Youtube wouldn't care, he's a nobody to them, there are almost 10,000 channels with more subscribers than him, he's down in the noise, practically at my level for all intents.
I now think it's the 3 month hiatus.
I bought Luis CK's internet special  ;D 
 

Online KL27x

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Re: World's first professional Youtuber quits Youtube
« Reply #79 on: August 20, 2019, 04:17:25 am »
^Oops, I was looking at views, not subscribers. That channel only had 2.1 million subscribers.

Quote
I bought Luis CK's internet special  ;D
Right on. Honestly, he hadn't crossed my mind for years before the scandal. But after reading into the details and between the lines, I also bought it.

I have nothing against the thousands of people who were cut out by Luis taking his show to his own platform. They have families. They have bills. Luis might be an asshole, even. I dunno. But it just makes me feel something.
 

Offline maginnovision

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Re: World's first professional Youtuber quits Youtube
« Reply #80 on: August 20, 2019, 07:38:21 am »
Pets 2 without Louis C.K. was a non starter. My daughter refuses to watch not Max.
 

Offline mc172

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Re: World's first professional Youtuber quits Youtube
« Reply #81 on: August 20, 2019, 07:53:28 am »
It's easy to go straight towards blaming YouTube, but if you ask any, say 12-16 year old (at least in the UK) what they want to do/be when they grow up, the answer will more than likely be "YouTuber". There must be millions of channels. How is YouTube supposed to cut the audience up fairly?
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: World's first professional Youtuber quits Youtube
« Reply #82 on: August 20, 2019, 08:49:06 am »
We're well into the AI era now. Having the source code would tell you little to nothing about how the algorithm is actually working. Probably even the engineers at YouTube have only a surface level understanding of what it's doing, and influence it only be weighting the metrics it's optimizing for.
I woulnn't call it AI, but machine learning, which is definitely an element of Youtube's algorithm.

It must process the videos, looking at both the video and audio. I've watched a few weather forecast videos, Youtube noted the graphics and started recommending cartoons and animations, even though I've hardly watched any cartoons on Youtube. There's also a link to what other viewers watch as I also get other weather related channels too.

I've always found the suggestions dumb.
 

Offline RoGeorge

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Re: World's first professional Youtuber quits Youtube
« Reply #83 on: August 20, 2019, 09:31:12 am »
Machine Learning (ML) is the process of training an Artificial Intelligence (AI).

As long as there is an already trained Neural Network (NN) up and running, we have an AI.

AI nowadays (not to be confused with General Artificial Intelligence, GAI) are limited only to specific problems, i.e. video recommendations based on maximizing profits without deterring the viewer.

GAI, which isn't yet available, it is supposed to be able to self adapt to new types of problems, problems completly different from the ones used during the ML process.

A GAI (not available yet) is suppose to be more like the human mind, while a trained AI (already available and running, i.e. to make video recommendations) is more like an expert for a specific problem only.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2019, 09:37:10 am by RoGeorge »
 
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Offline paulca

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Re: World's first professional Youtuber quits Youtube
« Reply #84 on: August 20, 2019, 10:23:28 am »
Yes the differentiation between machine learning and AI is not clear cut as one may use the other, but can exist without each other.

My own viewing habbits on YouTube have begun noticing a bit of "peaking" in the algorithm.  For instance YouTube used to recommend a whole range of music to me, but I got caught up in watch one particular type of video based music for a while, at the same time I did other things, so wasn't clicking "Next>>>" a lot.  It seems the algorithm now believe to "increase watch time" as it has been instructed that it will ONLY offer me that type of music video.  It takes me to search for other music to find any and even then as soon as I hit next it takes the shortest path back to the same old videos again.

I think the thing that hurt channels most was the removal of automatic subscription notifications.  You have to turn them on now. So a subscription will upload a video, but it will be buried in the 5th or 6th list on your home page and you miss it.
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Offline SparkyFX

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Re: World's first professional Youtuber quits Youtube
« Reply #85 on: August 20, 2019, 10:28:53 am »
AI nowadays (not to be confused with General Artificial Intelligence, GAI) are limited only to specific problems, i.e. video recommendations based on maximizing profits without deterring the viewer.
I don´t think there is a piece of code specifically for each viewer running, just data on recent actions and external data (past browsed websites, search terms) for advertisement. Would that qualify as an AI, if the training is basically just a tag cloud with ageing?
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Offline paulca

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Re: World's first professional Youtuber quits Youtube
« Reply #86 on: August 20, 2019, 10:35:20 am »
AI nowadays (not to be confused with General Artificial Intelligence, GAI) are limited only to specific problems, i.e. video recommendations based on maximizing profits without deterring the viewer.
I don´t think there is a piece of code specifically for each viewer running, just data on recent actions and external data (past browsed websites, search terms) for advertisement. Would that qualify as an AI, if the training is basically just a tag cloud with ageing?

The algorithm IS tuned to each individual user.  It looks at the data on past viewings and other things and then tries to achieve one single goal.  Increase watch time.
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Online EEVblog

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Re: World's first professional Youtuber quits Youtube
« Reply #87 on: August 20, 2019, 11:02:35 am »
The algorithm IS tuned to each individual user.  It looks at the data on past viewings and other things and then tries to achieve one single goal.  Increase watch time.

Not any more!
A few months back the algorith changed such that is now floods people's Recommended list with videos they have all ready watched.
Heck, they even added a "Tell Us Why" ignore option called "I've already watched this video"  :palm:
 

Offline RoGeorge

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Re: World's first professional Youtuber quits Youtube
« Reply #88 on: August 20, 2019, 11:03:08 am »
I was just trying to highlight the difference between ML and AI, and why "the youtube algorithm" is not only a ML but also a full AI.  Sorry for not quoting what the message I was replying to:

I woulnn't call it AI, but machine learning, which is definitely an element of Youtube's algorithm.

Offline paulca

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Re: World's first professional Youtuber quits Youtube
« Reply #89 on: August 20, 2019, 11:44:22 am »
The algorithm IS tuned to each individual user.  It looks at the data on past viewings and other things and then tries to achieve one single goal.  Increase watch time.

Not any more!
A few months back the algorith changed such that is now floods people's Recommended list with videos they have all ready watched.
Heck, they even added a "Tell Us Why" ignore option called "I've already watched this video"  :palm:

Yes.  So it looks at what you watched before, picks those videos that you watched a lot of and represents them, along with videos it deems "similar".

All it wants is to make you watch as much YouTube as possible.  Not video count, but watched minutes.

This is also why you want to aim for longer videos as the AI will select those preferentially as they present the best opportunity to get a long watch time.

Long watch time = more advert slots = more revenue.
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Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: World's first professional Youtuber quits Youtube
« Reply #90 on: August 20, 2019, 12:15:35 pm »
Quote
Long watch time = more advert slots = more revenue.

Do the adverts change whilst you're watching? (I don't know - can't remember seeing any adverts on YT).
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: World's first professional Youtuber quits Youtube
« Reply #91 on: August 20, 2019, 12:16:15 pm »
The algorithm IS tuned to each individual user.  It looks at the data on past viewings and other things and then tries to achieve one single goal.  Increase watch time.
Not any more!
A few months back the algorith changed such that is now floods people's Recommended list with videos they have all ready watched.
Heck, they even added a "Tell Us Why" ignore option called "I've already watched this video"  :palm:

Yes.  So it looks at what you watched before, picks those videos that you watched a lot of and represents them, along with videos it deems "similar".

This is insanity. Why present videos to people that they know they have already watched?
All it does it piss people off.
And it's not just one or two occasionally, for my feed it's sometimes half of the recommended videos.
It never used to do this.
 

Offline paulca

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Re: World's first professional Youtuber quits Youtube
« Reply #92 on: August 20, 2019, 12:36:35 pm »
The algorithm IS tuned to each individual user.  It looks at the data on past viewings and other things and then tries to achieve one single goal.  Increase watch time.
Not any more!
A few months back the algorith changed such that is now floods people's Recommended list with videos they have all ready watched.
Heck, they even added a "Tell Us Why" ignore option called "I've already watched this video"  :palm:

Yes.  So it looks at what you watched before, picks those videos that you watched a lot of and represents them, along with videos it deems "similar".

This is insanity. Why present videos to people that they know they have already watched?
All it does it piss people off.
And it's not just one or two occasionally, for my feed it's sometimes half of the recommended videos.
It never used to do this.

If you ask them why it did what it did the answer will be, "We don't know."

It's becoming a problem in data analysis, is that once an AI has been running for a while it has created such complex computational cells (or neural networks) that no human will ever be able to understand them.

It is also happening in science with one team analyzing a dataset with an AI and coming up with a set of results, but when a different team analyse the same data with a different AI they get different results and neither can explain why.  I have heard of being described in science as "a crisis".

Although, one thing is for sure.  If it wasn't increasing watch time it wouldn't be doing it, does work.
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Offline RoGeorge

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Re: World's first professional Youtuber quits Youtube
« Reply #93 on: August 20, 2019, 12:44:19 pm »
This is insanity. Why present videos to people that they know they have already watched?
All it does it piss people off.

Don't say it, it's a pain!  I wrote them back in the youtube feedback page so many times.  After a while I gave up.  That was 5-10 years ago.  At this point I'm sure that practice won't go away.   :-//

The only explanation I can think about is that many (if not most of the) people indeed have the habit of re-watching the same video many times, either because it's a trendy song or a nostalgic video, IDK.

For sure youtube knows re-recomanding viewed videos piss off some people, but hey, as long as this improves the revenue and it's not illegal and doesn't kill the business, why not?

After all, youtube's goal is to make money, not necessarily to please users.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2019, 12:49:28 pm by RoGeorge »
 

Offline coppice

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Re: World's first professional Youtuber quits Youtube
« Reply #94 on: August 20, 2019, 01:00:59 pm »
This is insanity. Why present videos to people that they know they have already watched?
Youtube still keep a long term record of what you watch, and how much of each video you have watched. On my youtube homepage they show a group of videos I only partly watched, to see if I want to finish them. Some of these are videos I partly watched quite a long time ago. They are all marked at the bottom with the red bar to show how much I have already watched. However, of the videos I have watched to completion some are marked with the red bar. and some aren't. This seems random.
 

Offline magic

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Re: World's first professional Youtuber quits Youtube
« Reply #95 on: August 20, 2019, 01:37:07 pm »
This is insanity. Why present videos to people that they know they have already watched?
As I said: pirate music uploads, pacifying kids with shitty entertainment. I'm sure there are more use cases like that where the same vid is watched over and over again.

Welcome to Eternal September, I'm sure you've been on the 'net long enough to know what that means :P
 

Offline soldar

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Re: World's first professional Youtuber quits Youtube
« Reply #96 on: August 20, 2019, 01:55:57 pm »
This is insanity. Why present videos to people that they know they have already watched?
All it does it piss people off.

Not that I am representative of anything or anybody but personally it doesn't piss me off because I hardly ever look at the suggested videos. And ocassionally I do like to watch again videos I enjoyed in the past. There are a couple of channels I feel are being unfairly targeted by YT and I will some times play some videos and let the ads play because I know it is revenue for the channel. If I am working on one computer I can just play some video with the sound off in another computer and it does not bother me one bit.
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Offline SparkyFX

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Re: World's first professional Youtuber quits Youtube
« Reply #97 on: August 20, 2019, 02:15:46 pm »
This is insanity. Why present videos to people that they know they have already watched?
All it does it piss people off.
And it's not just one or two occasionally, for my feed it's sometimes half of the recommended videos.
It never used to do this.
Can it be that people edit the description or title of a video afterwards, which does enqueue it new into peoples feeds? I have the impression that it mostly affects videos i watched right after release.

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Offline nctnico

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Re: World's first professional Youtuber quits Youtube
« Reply #98 on: August 20, 2019, 02:56:39 pm »
This is insanity. Why present videos to people that they know they have already watched?
I think Youtube is not allowed to keep a record of videos you watched due to privacy regulations.
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Offline soldar

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Re: World's first professional Youtuber quits Youtube
« Reply #99 on: August 20, 2019, 03:03:44 pm »
I think Youtube is not allowed to keep a record of videos you watched due to privacy regulations.

YouTube definitely knows what videos I have seen and I don't even have a YT account nor am I logged in. Google and YT just identify the computer with a signature. They might not know my name, although I suspect they probably do, but they know what the user of this computer has been watching.

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