Wound up the landlord again - HAM radio

[Deathwish]

I have no experience with HAM radio but I decided to wind up the landlord, so invited him round and then went into a spiel about wanting to learn HAM radio and get a licence, but that it would involve me putting up a huge mast on my property ... sat him down and pretended to be listening to operators around the world via a PC and then keying back to them ... for that purpose I used a good old Fluke DMM on continuity check and shorting the probes. He fell for it  , then started panicking about how big the mast would be and other stuff. I told him it would be at least 12 feet tall and as wide as well. He already thinks I came out of a box of fruit loops and am a nut job and went home panicking and green looking    , I sit waiting for him to blow a fuse now.

[ElectroIrradiator]

Is this supposed to be funny?

Potentially ruining the chance of getting an antenna permit for a local HAM, who actually needs it.

[Mechanical Menace]

Is this supposed to be funny?

If it's not it still manges to be hilarious.

Potentially ruining the chance of getting an antenna permit for a local HAM, who actually needs it.

How exactly could this do that?

[McBryce]

I think ElectroIrradiator is thinking in terms of a Landlord of a large complex where other possible Ham enthusiasts might live. In reality, Deathwish seems to be in Wales where the building is possibly a small semi-detached house and he's the only resident.

McBryce.

[Deathwish]

It is extremely hilarious, however you would need to know why to see it. So let me explain....

1. My landlord is a pastor who owns a group of houses he rents out
2. The building I live in is Listed, so you have NO hope in hell of ever erecting such an item on it or around it.
3.It is across the road from the RC church, the famous well at Holywell and a convent ( you wont see why that is funny till you know the relationship between my landlord and the church etc )
4. He has been harassing tenants who park more than 1 car in the large car park even though it is for tenants and most of the 16 residents do not own a car, lets say he likes to change the tenancy rules as each day goes by.

Return to 2 above , he forgets this fact, so to watch him shrink like a violet is rather funny.
 

[Deathwish]

I think ElectroIrradiator is thinking in terms of a Landlord of a large complex where other possible Ham enthusiasts might live. In reality, Deathwish seems to be in Wales where the building is possibly a small semi-detached house and he's the only resident.

McBryce.

Sort off, it is an old set of houses that are listed and he turned them into flats, there are 16 of them

[ElectroIrradiator]

Deathwish,

Your lack of experience with the subject matter shows and no, not funny. Please stop trying to ruin other peoples attempts at working amicably with their landlords on getting antenna permits.

I am short on time today, but will try to explain more later.

[Deathwish]

You miss the point completely. You have NO hope in hell of getting a permit, let alone an antenna erected around here.

I may not have personal experience as a HAM but I have erected a number of antennas for other radio equipment for my personal use elsewhere.

I found it funny, maybe I should have started singing nearer my god to thee as I asked him if I could erect it.

[McBryce]

If the building isn't listed you don't need a permit for most antennas in the UK or Ireland. As far as I can remember, as long as it doesn't protrude more than 3 metres above the roof you only need permission from the landlord.

McBryce.

[Deathwish]

It is listed, they can't even put in double glazing. We have still got old Sash cord windows. and they are freezing in winter.

[Mechanical Menace]

If the building isn't listed you don't need a permit for most antennas in the UK or Ireland. As far as I can remember, as long as it doesn't protrude more than 3 metres above the roof you only need permission from the landlord.

McBryce.

Maximum length of the antenna in any direction is 1 meter on buildings under 15 meters tall or 1.3 meters on those over or else you need planning permission no matter if your building is listed or not.

[Muttley Snickers]

Just for future reference I am trying to establish the resonant frequency of a Hills Hoist (clothes line) and hoping that the telescopic wind up section may act as a crude gamma match provided the whole thing is independent of ground.

You might be able to do a similar thing with that newly acquired shopping trolley, they do have more than one use you know......


completely anonymous poster.

[McBryce]

Maximum length of the antenna in any direction is 1 meter on buildings under 15 meters tall or 1.3 meters on those over or else you need planning permission no matter if your building is listed or not.

You can get around some of those rules (at least in Ireland) because the law stated "1 meter (not including mounting bracket)". My antenna in Ireland back then was on a 2 metre mounting bracket

McBryce.

[dr.diesel]

Deathwish,

Your lack of experience with the subject matter shows and no, not funny. Please stop trying to ruin other peoples attempts at working amicably with their landlords on getting antenna permits.

I am short on time today, but will try to explain more later.

Yup, not even remotely amusing, quite irritating actually.

[Deathwish]

I fail to see how you can get so irate over it, it is one landlord, my landlord, who likes to stick it to his tenants as often as he can, so I chose to wind him up in return.

live with it. As I said, your arguing a point that is pointless because you will never get an antenna put up here or anywhere around here because the majority if buildings are listed, so no one is being hurt by my joke with him.

I once had a relationship with the daughter of a HAM operator in Hampshire, my days of fox hunting etc are over, as is putting yagi antennas or dipoles up, and yes I have had fights with landlords to get them put up so I am not exactly out of touch even if not for HAM purposes. My sense of humor may not be yours but it is far from dead.

[zapta]

3.It is across the road from the RC church, the famous well at Holywell and a convent ( you wont see why that is funny till you know the relationship between my landlord and the church etc )

Apropos churches and antennas, a local church has a cell tower antenna hidden in its cross.  The cross has a simple design with a horizontal and a vertical tubes and the antenna is fully covered (though it was visible when it was installed). There is also a little shed with the electronic equipment near the base that is hidden with a wooden fence.

Hiding antennas is a common practice these days.

[dr.diesel]

My sense of humor may not be yours but it is far from dead.

You made a specific point to waste his time by lying to him, good job.

[Mechanical Menace]

You made a specific point to waste his time by lying to him, good job.

All (actually funny) humour is built on dishonesty of some type and/or a straight man getting "tormented." This just involved both.

[dr.diesel]

I sit waiting for him to blow a fuse now.

All (actually funny) humour is built on dishonesty of some type and/or a straight man getting "tormented." This just involved both.

A joke requires an end, or punch line, this insult has neither.

[rs20]

... a straight man getting "tormented."...

Humour can fit this definition, but so can bullying, so it's hardly a good indicator of humour.

[Mechanical Menace]

A joke requires an end, or punch line, this insult has neither.

A joke maybe, but how much humour is actually formal jokes?


And there was a punchline, that the straight man (the landlord) didn't catch on that the funny man's (Deathwish) proposal was never serious and could not be undertaken anyway.

... a straight man getting "tormented."...

Humour can fit this definition, but so can bullying, so it's hardly a good indicator of humour.

Depends on how much you're prepared to trivialise bullying with too broad a definition. I'm often the straight man in this sort of situation, and yes I get embarrassed at my own naivete, but if that's bullying then anything but getting so far up everybody's arse you can see their teeth no matter what is.

[ElectroIrradiator]

Well, as I briefly mentioned earier, then you seem to be missing the big picture here.

Firstly, then it is completely irrelevant that you are currently living in a Listed building. It is perfectly possible to make and operate quite effective antennas, which are completely invisible and doesn't damage nor detract from the buildings exterior in any way.

The literal flagpole in the garden is just one example. Haul a copper wire up with the robe and done. Been there, done it twice myself (OK, strictly speaking one of those poles was actually an 8m girder mast, but you get the idea). If you are able to bury a reasonably effective system of ground radials in the lawn around the flagpole, then this can be an amazingly effective antenna below 30 MHz. However you usually needs the approval of your landlord, as your digging in the lawn will be visible at least temporarily.

Don't laugh at the clothes lines either. I knew a guy, who used exactly that as an invisible antenna. With the joints secured with good electrical connections those square clothes lines made from Aluminium makes for good antennas as a top loaded vertical between 14 and 30 MHz. Again provided you have a reasonable ground radial system.

Then there is the loft/crawl space directly below the roof. Done this myself once. Depending on what the roof is made of, then a dipole below the roof can be quite effective. Red brick works well here. However you frequently need the approval of your landlord to gain access to the loft space.

The proverbial random wire, made from thin, nearly invisible, enameled copper wire, and strung up using fishing line, can also be a very effective yet nearly invisible antenna when provided with a good ground system. Done this myself twice. If you need to gain access to the roof to put it up, then you may need the approval of your landlord.

Another option may be the small, temporary and possibly indoor antenna, which is put up when you need it. The magnetic loop is one example. Usually doesn't require landlord approval.

Secondly, if you *do* use an antenna like this for transmitting, then it is possible that, due to the proximity to the living space of your neighbours, your transmitter creates RFI in nearby electonics. If this happens, then your neighbours may not realize you are to blame, and it is likely your landlord is one of the first outsiders to hear about the problem.

Do you begin to see a pattern here?

Thirdly, there are such things as associations of landlords/people who rent out living space. They tend to cooperate on various issues of common interest, like how you manage your tenants.

Here in Denmark one of the problems we have had to fight for years are standardized contracts for tenants, which contains clauses against erecting antennas on the property.

The problem with your 'joke' is exactly the reason why it works: Your landlord knows absolutely nothing about antennas nor radio. Yet the next time, if it ever happens, that he hears about this issue from his 'colleagues', then he will remember the run in he had with you.

You see, you are not alone in doing what you did: Going for an outside antenna with all guns blazing from the get go. And make no mistake about it. From the point of view of your landlord that is *exactly* what you did.

Here in Denmark it has only taken a few bad apples, be it CB operators with illegal equipment or HAMs with zero sense of diplomacy, to have antennas banned as a standard clause in a significant part of the homes up for rent in the whole country. And once those clauses are in, it is an uphill battle to get them overturned. Even if you are on a very good footing with your landlord. Because he or she will likely know nothing about the subject, but if their colleagues recommend banning such an esoteric thing as antennas, then they must clearly be a very, very bad thing indeed.

Conversely, if you 'boil the frog slowly' and spend some time getting on the good side of people before bringing up the subject of antennas, then I am constantly amazed what you *can* get away with. Start with a small and inconspicuous setup, show there is no problem and work your way up from there. Assuming, that is, your landlord isn't predisposed against the subject in the first place due to the actions of people in other areas of your country.

[McBryce]

So let me get this straight. You're getting angry because of the unmeasurably miniscule chance that an elderly Vicar in another part of the world might mention antennas if he talks to someone else that also happens to be a landlord, and that this landlord in turn uses this information for future tenant contract decisions??

I didn't find the joke particularly funny, but it's definitely not worth getting worked up about.

McBryce.

[ElectroIrradiator]

So let me get this straight. You're getting angry because of the unmeasurably miniscule chance that an elderly Vicar in another part of the world might mention antennas if he talks to someone else that also happens to be a landlord, and that this landlord in turn uses this information for future tenant contract decisions??

I didn't find the joke particularly funny, but it's definitely not worth getting worked up about.

McBryce.

Nope, not angry nor worked up. I explained why I didn't find the joke funny. And yes, something like what you describe has happened here, more than once, despite the low probability. And once the damage has been done...

My personal pet theory is that a situation like this tend to stick on the minds of people. This exactly because it is such a relatively rare and uncommon occurence for any given landlord, and unlike more common problems like a tenant just plainly wrecking a home.

[JackP]

  Let's take a step back for a moment. Death played a prank on a curmudgeonly old git who we know has often changed the contract for his tenants mid-term, often making their lives harder (only one car, for example). And better yet, it's on topic (vaguely involving electronics and RF and all that jazz). So anyway, he had some fun, thought he'd share it with us and some of us got the joke. Yeah, not everyone did, but not everyone gets every other joke, so let it be. He was obviously not acting to 'hurt' other people's chances of getting something, and you need to know something about Wales: there's really not much there. I'm assuming the old vicar does not really belong to any Union or the like, and even if he did what you suggested really has very very little to nil chance of changing anything. So stop taking it out of context, it's a joke, and either share your amusement or just quietly dismiss it. Please, it stops these kinds of online 'battles' where people think they can say whatever they want, just for thrills.

  Besides, I like Death (never thought I'd say that!), his threads and responses often make me chuckle, especially his banter with Tautech!

  I realise I'm gonna get shot down for trying to be a peacekeeper, and someone's gonna pick apart my argument, but hey-ho, that's the interwebz for y'all.