Author Topic: Wreckage of MH370 washing up on Reunion Island?  (Read 25857 times)

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Offline AG6QR

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Re: Wreckage of MH370 washing up on Reunion Island?
« Reply #50 on: August 02, 2015, 04:31:23 am »
An expert on a news story said that the found piece did not have leading edge damage indicating it did not suffer a head on collision.  Watch the wing in this video from an out of gas plane trying to land on the water.  It was ripped off by centripetal force when the other wing hit the water.

The piece that was found was a flaperon, not a wing.  The flaperon's leading edge is normally protected by the wing during cruise flight, because it's nested in back of the wing.  The fact that there was no leading edge damage to the flaperon seems to indicate that the flaps were not lowered at the time the plane hit the water, but that's not a surprising thing.  In fact, if the flaps HAD been lowered at the time the plane hit the water, that would have been quite puzzling.
 

Offline ez24

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Re: Wreckage of MH370 washing up on Reunion Island?
« Reply #51 on: August 02, 2015, 05:09:07 am »
I meant the flaperon's leading edge lack of damage that would have occurred if it had smashed against the wing, like in a frontal collision.  It had extensive damage to the inboard end like it was ripped off sideways like the wing in the video.

I just wonder why Australia is paying for the search?

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Offline pickle9000

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Re: Wreckage of MH370 washing up on Reunion Island?
« Reply #52 on: August 02, 2015, 05:20:49 am »
I meant the flaperon's leading edge lack of damage that would have occurred if it had smashed against the wing, like in a frontal collision.  It had extensive damage to the inboard end like it was ripped off sideways like the wing in the video.

I just wonder why Australia is paying for the search?

It went down next to Australia, they pay. That's a general rule but not always correct. Most countries are also willing to have help. This aspect of plane travel is pretty amazing when you think about the cost. There are side benefits as well and it need not be a losing proposition. Having a surface scan of an ocean could be very handy in many cases, brownie points with other govts, having the countries name in the news and so on.
 

Offline kosmonooit

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Re: Wreckage of MH370 washing up on Reunion Island?
« Reply #53 on: August 02, 2015, 06:00:22 am »
The piece that was found was a flaperon, not a wing.  The flaperon's leading edge is normally protected by the wing during cruise flight, because it's nested in back of the wing.  The fact that there was no leading edge damage to the flaperon seems to indicate that the flaps were not lowered at the time the plane hit the water, but that's not a surprising thing.  In fact, if the flaps HAD been lowered at the time the plane hit the water, that would have been quite puzzling.

But the Flaperon does not get lowered entirely like a flap, although it tilts down to act like a flap when needed, still the leading edge would not get exposed even when its 'lowered', unlike the the flaps proper. Even when down it will still act like an aileron, that is move up and down to maintain roll angle required, or straight & level flight.
 

Offline johansen

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Re: Wreckage of MH370 washing up on Reunion Island?
« Reply #54 on: August 02, 2015, 06:12:26 am »
Malaysian airlines flight 17 only crashed because it was shot down by Russian Separatists
Please refrain from bold accusations and leave making conclusions to the investigators, which they have not done yet.

please refrain from believing the official story when there is no evidence to suggest its plausibility.

knowing that particular plane was loaded with dead bodies... would Dave believe it if there was a few undamaged passports hidden inside this piece of wreakage?

regardless if its from the plane or not, it doesn't change a damn thing.. how the hell is it still floating in the ocean after x years?
 

Offline pickle9000

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Re: Wreckage of MH370 washing up on Reunion Island?
« Reply #55 on: August 02, 2015, 06:31:32 am »
So here is a comparison of the flaperon to a page from the 777 service manual. I think there is one floating around showing the other end as well.

I guess the troubleshooting nature of air crashes is what I am drawn to, very interesting.

Sounds like some other debris may have been found in May, it was destroyed (burnt as trash)
 

Offline ccs46

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Re: Wreckage of MH370 washing up on Reunion Island?
« Reply #56 on: August 02, 2015, 10:59:08 am »
Malaysian airlines flight 17 only crashed because it was shot down by Russian Separatists
Please refrain from bold accusations and leave making conclusions to the investigators, which they have not done yet.

please refrain from believing the official story when there is no evidence to suggest its plausibility.

knowing that particular plane was loaded with dead bodies... would Dave believe it if there was a few undamaged passports hidden inside this piece of wreakage?

regardless if its from the plane or not, it doesn't change a damn thing.. how the hell is it still floating in the ocean after x years?
I think we are talking about two different plane crashes, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17 was the one shot down, MH370,  is the one that went into the ocean, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_370 .
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Wreckage of MH370 washing up on Reunion Island?
« Reply #58 on: August 02, 2015, 11:08:22 am »
I just wonder why Australia is paying for the search?

Every country is responsible for   search and rescue in it's allotted surrounding ocean, and we have more area than most.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Wreckage of MH370 washing up on Reunion Island?
« Reply #59 on: August 02, 2015, 11:12:04 am »
regardless if its from the plane or not, it doesn't change a damn thing.. how the hell is it still floating in the ocean after x years?

a) It is from the plane. There is no other missing 777.
b) The flaperon obviously has welded sealed compartments (or some other such bouyancy and/or low density materials) inside that allows it to float.  Not rocket science.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 11:28:01 am by EEVblog »
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Wreckage of MH370 washing up on Reunion Island?
« Reply #60 on: August 02, 2015, 11:18:22 am »
I smell a pilot's suicide club. They found more small pieces of wreckage so maybe they didn't find the plane yet because it is in millions of small pieces scattered on the ocean floor. Just like the German wings pilot the pilot of MH370 could have driven the plane into the ocean at full speed tearing the plane into small bits and pieces. That would also explain why they never found any escape slides/life rafts; a controlled emergency landing on water would at least have the escape slides/life rafts deployed.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 11:25:56 am by nctnico »
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Offline SeanB

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Re: Wreckage of MH370 washing up on Reunion Island?
« Reply #61 on: August 02, 2015, 11:43:43 am »
I smell a pilot's suicide club. They found more small pieces of wreckage so maybe they didn't find the plane yet because it is in millions of small pieces scattered on the ocean floor. Just like the German wings pilot the pilot of MH370 could have driven the plane into the ocean at full speed tearing the plane into small bits and pieces. That would also explain why they never found any escape slides/life rafts; a controlled emergency landing on water would at least have the escape slides/life rafts deployed.

Escape slides do not deploy unless you first MANUALLY break a wire locked handle, then only will operate one the door is opened again MANUALLY. If the passengers and crew are all either anoxic, dead or overcome with fumes from a fire in the lithium batteries carried in pressurised cargo, there would be nobody competent enough to open the door, break the wire lock and then trigger the deployment charges. Even if there were people awake, the doors would have resisted opening until impact, and after that you would not need them in any case as the plane would be in pieces from impact ( that South Atlantic is never going to be a still millpond ever), so they went down either unfired or shredded into smaller pieces, which would float for a while or just sink anyway as they are denser than water when not inflated.
 

Offline kosmonooit

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Re: Wreckage of MH370 washing up on Reunion Island?
« Reply #62 on: August 02, 2015, 01:24:15 pm »
Certainly one of the biggest mysteries in the  history of aviation, but how could the aircraft fly due south to the middle of nowhere for so long without anyone compos mentis is something that I cant get over, with other pilot suicides it over quite quickly, either plunging into the ground / sea or mountain, and the aircraft is smashed to smithereens. Although the pilot (or someone else ) releasing some  toxic gas can not be eliminated, although this would not explain some of the nav/comms equipment failure. And no one on board who had any background that would suggest this action.

Surely the waypoints keyed into the Autopilot that caused it to track that erratic track then route that great circle south is some clue? Perhaps done in a panic or on the brink of conciousness.

Until they find more pieces and figure it all, its all just speculation.
 

Offline MadTux

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Re: Wreckage of MH370 washing up on Reunion Island?
« Reply #63 on: August 02, 2015, 09:24:33 pm »
I smell a pilot's suicide club. They found more small pieces of wreckage so maybe they didn't find the plane yet because it is in millions of small pieces scattered on the ocean floor. Just like the German wings pilot the pilot of MH370 could have driven the plane into the ocean at full speed tearing the plane into small bits and pieces. That would also explain why they never found any escape slides/life rafts; a controlled emergency landing on water would at least have the escape slides/life rafts deployed.

Wouldn't it be smarter to do a controlled ditch, like Hudson bay bird strike ditch, and wait for the plane to sink in one piece, if you want to make a plane disappear? That way, there wouldn't be any suspicious parts floating on the surface. I'd expect to be lots of floating parts after a high speed high decent rate crash into the ocean, since the plane is ripped in many floating and non floating pieces. (load bearing structure will most likely sink but seats,bits from honeycomb panels etc will float and generate a big debris field)

I don't know how long a plane stays afloat with air in fuel tanks. But since all dead spaces and fuel tanks (probably also the inside flap that was just found, but the honeycomb structure still generated enough lift) must be vented because of the differential pressure between sea level and flight altitude (e.g. pressure differential of 750 mbar/75000Pa or 7.5 tons per m², enough to cause dents/rips in non-vented parts), I  think it's only a matter of time until these spaces are flooded and the plane sinks completely intact and without any traces on the surface. So if I were a suicidal pilot and wanted to make a plane disappear completely, I'd go that way. But of course it would be a much more agonizing death for the pilot, if you survive the ditch. Floating without food or water in the ocean 1000s of miles from any land/shipping routes is probably one of the shittiest deaths I can imagine.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Wreckage of MH370 washing up on Reunion Island?
« Reply #64 on: August 02, 2015, 10:36:58 pm »
Besides that the people inside the plane would open the doors and inflate the escape slides/life rafts before the airplane sinks (if the pilot manages to land the plane in one piece on water). The wreckage only suggests the plane isn't in one piece at this moment. There is a lot of mystery to solve. I hope they can use wind and current patterns to guestimate the location the flap could come from.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 10:38:33 pm by nctnico »
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Offline MadTux

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Re: Wreckage of MH370 washing up on Reunion Island?
« Reply #65 on: August 02, 2015, 10:54:08 pm »
AFAIK the pilot probably killed the passengers by cabin depressurization. Since the pilot has oxygen for a far longer time (4h I read somewhere) than the passengers (a few minutes), he just have open pressure valves for an hour or so at high altitude, before he is alone up there.

It's the trailing edge damage which makes me somewhat suspicious that the pilot deployed flaps for maximum lift to make a slow ditch with minimal damage. Compare the damaged flap with the damage on the hudson bay A320
http://charlottemagazine-images.dashdigital.com/images/cache/cache_b/cache_9/cache_9/15721-0114_FEA_5Years05-dd6e199b.jpeg?ver=1434645054&aspectratio=1.5
« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 11:02:14 pm by MadTux »
 

Offline Alexei.Polkhanov

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Re: Wreckage of MH370 washing up on Reunion Island?
« Reply #66 on: August 02, 2015, 11:03:14 pm »
b) The flaperon obviously has welded sealed compartments (or some other such bouyancy and/or low density materials) inside that allows it to float.  Not rocket science.

I think these compartments used as a fuel tank. That is another reason why they are very well sealed. They probably were already empty at the time of a crash.



 

Offline wasyoungonce

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Re: Wreckage of MH370 washing up on Reunion Island?
« Reply #67 on: August 03, 2015, 12:51:25 am »
No the Flaperon is not used as a fuel tank, its a moving control surface.   The new parts on reunion island do not really look like aircraft parts (looks like an alloy case handle) but it does have a Chinese looking stamp on it  :-//
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Offline kosmonooit

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Re: Wreckage of MH370 washing up on Reunion Island?
« Reply #68 on: August 03, 2015, 07:05:25 am »
Reminds me of the Monty Python & the Holy Grail

So why do witches burn?
- 'Cause they're made of wood? - Good!
- How do we tell if she is made of wood? - Build a bridge out of her.
- But can you not also make bridges out of stone?
- Oh, yeah.
- Does wood sink in water?
- No, it floats. - Throw her into the pond!
- What also floats in water?
- Bread. - Apples.
- Very small rocks. - Cider! Great gravy.
- Cherries. Mud. - Churches.
- Lead. - A duck!
- Exactly.
- So, logically--
- If she weighs the same as a duck...
- she's made of wood.
- And therefore?
- A witch!



However this here flaperon has a honey comb structure inside (for strength I guess) that is why it has floated to Reunion.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-31/mh370-what-is-washed-up-plane-debris-flaperon/6663434

"The flaperons on the 777 are made from a combination of lightweight materials, including aluminium, a glass fibre-reinforced plastic laminate skin, and a honeycomb internal structure. A lightweight part of this type could potentially stay afloat for a long time. "

« Last Edit: August 03, 2015, 07:12:06 am by kosmonooit »
 

Offline Psi

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Re: Wreckage of MH370 washing up on Reunion Island?
« Reply #69 on: August 03, 2015, 07:12:28 am »
Certainly one of the biggest mysteries in the  history of aviation, but how could the aircraft fly due south to the middle of nowhere for so long without anyone compos mentis is something that I cant get over, with other pilot suicides it over quite quickly, either plunging into the ground / sea or mountain, and the aircraft is smashed to smithereens. Although the pilot (or someone else ) releasing some  toxic gas can not be eliminated, although this would not explain some of the nav/comms equipment failure. And no one on board who had any background that would suggest this action.

Surely the waypoints keyed into the Autopilot that caused it to track that erratic track then route that great circle south is some clue? Perhaps done in a panic or on the brink of conciousness.

Until they find more pieces and figure it all, its all just speculation.

There are many different autopilot modes. Some will maintain level flight indefinitely.
It's entirely possible that everyone was dead for many many hours and it flew on in complete silence until the final few minutes when the computer would have said  "Too low, terrain" a few hundred times before impact.

</eerie>

Usually a water landing rips a wing off, the wing that contacts first gets extreme forces from the engine digging in.
So finding a flaperon makes sense, it's right where the wing joins the plane
« Last Edit: August 03, 2015, 07:19:17 am by Psi »
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Offline aargee

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Re: Wreckage of MH370 washing up on Reunion Island?
« Reply #70 on: August 03, 2015, 07:16:31 am »
I think more wreckage is required (yeah, really?) and if there is evidence of fire, especially if there are fuselage remnants, that will start to mount up a case for a hot burning fire that killed off the avionics.

I reckon there would have been lots and lots of simulator runs with scenarios for this disappearance and it's all still conjecture.
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Offline Psi

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Re: Wreckage of MH370 washing up on Reunion Island?
« Reply #71 on: August 03, 2015, 07:20:22 am »
Yes, finding some parts that show signs of fire damage would make the lithium battery fire theory pretty much proven.
But its also possible that the lithium batteries just smoldered producing lots of fumes but no actual fire. In that case there would be no fire damage to find.
Finding the batteries themselves would be the only way, and they would have reacted to the salt water anyway so proving what happened when would be very difficult.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2015, 07:23:41 am by Psi »
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Offline pickle9000

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Re: Wreckage of MH370 washing up on Reunion Island?
« Reply #72 on: August 03, 2015, 07:32:19 am »
Was that other fire that burnt on ground figured out? That was a 777 as well.
 

Offline kosmonooit

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Re: Wreckage of MH370 washing up on Reunion Island?
« Reply #73 on: August 03, 2015, 07:38:36 am »
I think a fire on board can be ruled out, there is no way it would have continued to fly for such a long time with a Fire on Board, although perhaps there was a localised fire that produced toxic fumes and then petered out or was extinguished. Also control and power circuits would go in a big fire, and Al melts real easy as anyone who has tried to weld it knows, so the fuselage would be compromised.

The range is consistent with the fuel load, what I want to know is are/were the relevant tanks auto-selected as required?  Back in my piloting days, I had to manually select wing and center tanks to keep the aircraft balanced (single engine)

But in aircraft fires, its the fumes that kill long before the heat.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2015, 07:42:53 am by kosmonooit »
 

Offline wasyoungonce

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Re: Wreckage of MH370 washing up on Reunion Island?
« Reply #74 on: August 03, 2015, 08:19:43 am »
Exactly...the Helderberg, a SA 747 airliner & cargo plane, crashed ~ 1987 from an onboard fire (from cargo area).  Once fire detected....it didn't stay flying for long.  There have been a few Aircraft fires, suffice to say, they burn pretty rapidly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_Airways_Flight_295
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