General > General Technical Chat

WTF!!! (French Airforce FUBAR)

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SiliconWizard:

--- Quote from: wasyoungonce on April 13, 2020, 08:15:42 am ---Something in this whole story is wrong.  Most fighter Acft have a mode selection switch or "mode selector"...which would be selected normal....if rear initiated ejection the front would stay....I'd say the Rafale would have this

--- End quote ---

As explained in the report,  the selector for the Rafale-B has two positions: SOLO and TWO.
In the TWO mode, if one seat's ejection is triggered, the other seat's ejection will occur in sequence,
In the SOLO mode, each seat triggers ejection individually.

The selector WAS definitely on the TWO mode in this event, so the pilot's seat should have been ejected after the passenger's seat. It didn't due to a fault that led to the command not being transmitted properly to the pilot's seat. (The fault was due to some part in the selector breaking after the explosion apparently due to a screw not being tightened properly.)

The question whether the selector should have been on SOLO or TWO for this particular flight doesn't seem really relevant IMO. TWO is probably the normal procedure for a flight with a passenger.

There isn't any way of DISABLING the ejection trigger on a given seat AFAIK, so that could not have been done - which would have prevented the incident here.
In retrospect, it could seem a good idea for flights with passengers who are not well trained, but I'm sure there would be contradicting arguments. Besides, allowing selectively disabling that would probably lead to many more potential accidents.

As I said earlier, note that this fault, by complete luck (if we can call it that), actually saved the plane -  a mere ~70M euros. Had the sequence worked properly, the plane would have been lost. How ironic.

james_s:
In retrospect it does seem like there should be a way to lock out the ejection seat, at least if the aircraft is ever going to be carrying a less than fully trained passenger. As this incident shows, the system can do more harm than good in certain situations, this could have ended with the unoccupied plane crashing into an apartment building or residential neighborhood. It also seems there should be a way for the pilot to abort their own ejection should the rear seat eject. I'm shocked that there is both no way to lock it out, and that they did not hammer it into this guy's head to never, ever touch the ejection handle unless it's an actual emergency. This was just full of huge mistakes all around.

SiliconWizard:

--- Quote from: james_s on April 13, 2020, 04:38:14 pm ---In retrospect it does seem like there should be a way to lock out the ejection seat, at least if the aircraft is ever going to be carrying a less than fully trained passenger.
--- End quote ---

As I said, after thinking about it a little, I'm not sure it would be a good idea. Those planes are not designed specifically to carry untrained passengers. Specific functions for that case are not a good idea IMO. I think it could do more harm than good in the end.

One thing to keep in mind - during normal flights (not demos) with two pilots inside, either of them could be piloting at some point. It's especially the case during the training of pilots. So disabling ejection for any of the seats is likely NOT a good idea in general, and should thus not be possible IMHO unless we want to introduce a whole range of new possible problems.


--- Quote from: james_s on April 13, 2020, 04:38:14 pm ---I'm shocked that there is both no way to lock it out,
--- End quote ---

I think it fully makes sense from a safety POV if you think about it. What doesn't is carrying untrained and unsufficiently prepared passengers. As the report says, not only the guy had never been in a fighter jet before, he had never been in any kind of plane other than airliners. So the probability of freaking out was high IMO. I've been in small planes in the past, and took some flying lessons. Even if you love it and are not easily impressed, the very first time is usually a bit frightening, especially the landing phase! I'm not even talking about a fighter jet!


--- Quote from: james_s on April 13, 2020, 04:38:14 pm ---and that they did not hammer it into this guy's head to never, ever touch the ejection handle unless it's an actual emergency. This was just full of huge mistakes all around.

--- End quote ---

As was shown in this case, the event was certainly planned and prepared in a rush (apparently for the sake of it being a full "surprise" for the passenger). This is the basis of all following mistakes: rushed medical exam, incomplete communication of the results to the pilot, rushed breefing for the passenger...

Making this kind of event a "surprise gift" is the worst idea ever IMO.

magic:

--- Quote from: james_s on April 13, 2020, 04:38:14 pm ---they did not hammer it into this guy's head to never, ever touch the ejection handle unless it's an actual emergency
--- End quote ---
He wasn't strapped properly in his seat, flapped around in the breeze and grabbed some random thing to hold >:D

SiliconWizard:

--- Quote from: magic on April 13, 2020, 05:43:52 pm ---
--- Quote from: james_s on April 13, 2020, 04:38:14 pm ---they did not hammer it into this guy's head to never, ever touch the ejection handle unless it's an actual emergency
--- End quote ---
He wasn't strapped properly in his seat, flapped around in the breeze and grabbed some random thing to hold >:D

--- End quote ---

The straps weren't tightened enough, but he did not "flap around in the breeze" either. ;D
No doubt it must have added to the stress though.

To understand why that happened, read section 2.3.7.

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